Dublin Bus Network Review

med1

thomasj wrote: »

Or Clare hall for that matter!

yes it looks like it will no longer serve tescos or clare hall that will be 128 territory

Xylophonic

Well Clare Hall will still be served by the 128. Also on the diagram the Eden Quay to Edenmore routes is numbered 27a, yet elsewhere it is referred to as the 42a

thomasj

True but not comvinient for anyone from coolock who shops or works at Clare hall and there would be quiet a few!

med1

thomasj wrote: »

True but not comvinient for anyone from coolock who shops or works at Clare hall and there would be quiet a few!

we used the same arguement in finglas to stop the changes re work and shopping on the 40d and 220 routes but despite thousands of letters/emails the changes go ahead inany case so i think its another case of lets get rid of what the passengers / drivers / controllers want and do what donal keating wants

Aard

Is there a spider map out there for the completed Network Direct? DB released such a map before the changes, so it'd be good to see a before-and-after.

Stevek101

Aard wrote: »

Is there a spider map out there for the completed Network Direct? DB released such a map before the changes, so it'd be good to see a before-and-after.

Network Direct is far from finished. You'll be waiting a while. There will be an interactive full network route map with connections released in good time.

CIE

So what happens with the 27 on the south side...? You will have the 27 to Citywest and the 77A left with a hanging alpha suffix now? What's the purpose of Network Destruct, again? because it's coming at a very ill-advised time and appears to be wasting a lot of public money.

(Aha, I know what to do: bring back the 54 by amalgamating the 42A and 77A. Brilyunt. And amalgamate the 54A into the 53 as the 53. I'm still waiting for them to call the new 46A by number 9, because it's not even recognisable as the 46A. Don't forget to amalgamate the 7 into the 37, the 130 and 150, or maybe even the 31 and 74A. And whatever happened to Route 141??)

dfx-

AlekSmart wrote: »

dfx,Your points re the 51B/C are very pertinent here but I can only point to what the Network Direct "Team" have devised and implimented for the 46A and 145 routes in phase 1.

Essentially two of the most popular and well utilized routes in the system have been reduced to a barely functional shambles at peak-time.

It now appears that a section of senior managerial types (with perhaps some as yet unrevealed Political encouragement) decided to take a very individualistic interpretation of the Deloitte Report`s,largely sensible,recommendations.

This individualism extended to a decision to begin the process with the best preforming,highest useage and most popular routes.

The actual process turned out to be a series of alterations of the most inexplicable and byzantine nature which swiftly(!) obliterated the former strenghts of these routes and added nothing of operational or marketable value whatsoever.

Yet,concidentally,the assorted secondary routes,many of which surely might have benefitted from some considered and coordinated modifications were given an equally bizzarre mixture of "Improvements" many of which flew directly contrary to the Deloitte principles.

It`s equally apparent to most observers,inside and out,that the process is now cast in stone and no amount of Customer Input will alter the "Master Plan".

There is a great deal of uncertainty and even resignation amongst front-line staff,as no amount of Feedback appears to be registering.

Instead,like a great hulking steam-roller,the Network Direct process creeps relentlessly on,like the Titanic heading for that iceberg.

I haven't read the Deloitte Report, AlekSmart, but I would be astonished to read they believe that wasting petrol on short 68s/69s/47s/45s/56s are in the company's interest. It must very very individual. What part of Network Direct do these changes match up with the aims of Network Direct..

I'd also like to know where there is a need for a bus service between Clondalkin and Ballymun via Inchicore. There was no mass exodus on Westmoreland St from the 51B/C to the 13/A stop. It seems like it is a completely random selection. Could've equally been the 130 and 51s? The bus was empty at the Central Bank. Nobody wants to go there. I can understand the 145 + 92.

I wonder what garage will operate the route.

After the comprehensive cock-up with the move from Aston Quay to Hawkins St and the anger that ensued, it will be interesting to see quite how badly wrong this will be. I see at my new stop, timetables have finally arrived for the Clondalkin routes, no stage information and lots of information about the 38/39/70 changes. Fantastic.

CIE, I think there will be removal/agglomeration of the 50/77A/56A.

Aard

Stevek101 wrote: »

Network Direct is far from finished. You'll be waiting a while. There will be an interactive full network route map with connections released in good time.

I know it's not yet completed, but what I meant was a map of the proposed ND changes.

CIE

dfx- wrote: »

CIE, I think there will be removal/agglomeration of the 50/77A/56A

Trying to force more bus passengers onto the Luas, perhaps? Attempted induction of ridership results in more car useage. Happened last time DB tried playing with their bus route structure. (I'm surprised that the 155 didn't come back and that the 19A is still running between McKee Road and Limekiln Farm; that route can't be very reliable even today.)

BTW, the Deloitte Report PDF is available on the Transport.ie web site. Looks like a long read.

AlekSmart

I see at my new stop, timetables have finally arrived for the Clondalkin routes, no stage information and lots of information about the 38/39/70 changes. Fantastic.

Sadly dfx-,this is now par for the course,whilst the company`s board now apparently spends it`s time discussing the next best-thing.....


I would endorse CIE`s point here....

BTW, the Deloitte Report PDF is available on the Transport.ie web site. Looks like a long read.

Long but well worth a look !!

Devilman40k

dfx- wrote: »

CIE, I think there will be removal/agglomeration of the 50/77A/56A.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the new 27/77 magical mystery tour bus seems destined to replace the 50 to citywest aswell (??) . If so which part of west Tallaght is going to have no bus service (a bit short-sighted considering the large number of houses there and that as a result of the recession a large number of these homes will have been hit particularly hard)

And is it true that the 54A and 140 will be amalgamated and 49/49A(not sure which one) will be dropped?

markpb

Xylophonic wrote: »

Judging by the diagram the 79 will use the Oscar Traynor Road between Dundaniel Road and Northside SC. It also appears as if the 27 will no longer serve Northside SC.

I just noticed that now. What a crazy route. East out of Castletimon, north to Oscar Traynor, east to Northside SC, south and west to Beaumont and then East to the Malahide road. You couldn't make this stuff up!

med1

the one thing that really bugs me about the chamges is the lies false information given out at busstops .
originally the maps were removed from the stops with a notice stating new spider maps showing all services in the area would be introduced.
so far the only maps been put up are area network direct which in most areas do not show the real services .
this has to be most confusing to tourists for example get on a bus at dorset street the map shows all n11 routes only plus the 4 none of these buses stop there yet none of the buses stopping there are listed same along the quays and o connell street and every other area new maps have been used .
why cant dublin bus put up proper area spider maps showing all routes that serve that area only

dfx-

Devilman40k wrote: »

If so which part of west Tallaght is going to have no bus service (a bit short-sighted considering the large number of houses there and that as a result of the recession a large number of these homes will have been hit particularly hard)

I think the rumour was that the 56A would be extended to run into Killinarden to replace the 50 there.

Unfortunately, that makes sense (to me anyway), so I expect all to be completely removed or the 50 to be matched up with the...*plucks random service out of thin air*...eh....the 18.

Flukey

A nice Christmas present from Dublin Bus would have been the dismantling of Network They Wrecked, and the restoration of our bus services. Unfortunately, though not surprisingly, this hasn't happened. So I now have bought an annual pass for the Bus and Luas, having only ever got one for the Bus. Well done Dublin Bus, pushing another customer towards the edge. Will you ever learn? The figures in Wednesday 30th's Indo would indicate not.

Devilman40k

Well I haven't renewed my annual ticket...I'll be taking the car to work in future

AlekSmart

Flukey states...

So I now have bought an annual pass for the Bus and Luas, having only ever got one for the Bus. Well done Dublin Bus, pushing another customer towards the edge. Will you ever learn? The figures in Wednesday 30th's Indo would indicate not.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rise-in-numbers-using-the-luas-as-buses-losing-ground-2476513.html

At this stage the entire Network Direct shambles really needs to be reassessed by preferably some outside agency,perhaps even Deloitte themselves asked to revisit the wreckage.

Without even taking to the streets,we can see from posts such as Devilman40K`s ....

Well I haven't renewed my annual ticket...I'll be taking the car to work in future

...that this "Plan" has not,is not,and will not work in terms of improving the quality of product delivery to our customers...The PASSENGER.

Many staff are uncertain of what is going on and speculation is rife as to what the REAL end-game is.

One thing is beyond challenge at this point and that is the absolute indifference to customer experience`s,complaints or suggestions.....something which flies totally counter to the ethos which we had all been told was the new-way-forward ???

What is going on ?????

SandyfordGuy

I will be withdrawing from using Dublin Bus from next year also, the last couple of days "Normal Weekday Service" has decided that for me. Both going to and from work yesterday and today my normal bus has not turned up. This is despite the fact I get on at either end of the terminus.

I called Dublin BUs who claimed that the bus did run, speaking to a driver on a later departure, he confirmed that some duties are not running until the new year, leaving gaps in services because of less than normal demand.

That compiled with the disastrous network direct means I will also be an ex customer. I don't have a problem if they want to provide a Saturday service, but when they completely say it is a weekday service when it is not it is a disgrace, but from reading the Indo article, they claim things are getting better, all DB is about these days is PR spin rather than providing a service.

Their heads are burred in the sand, maybe I will supply them with a spade soon to help them dig their own grave even quicker.

AlekSmart

That compiled with the disastrous network direct means I will also be an ex customer. I don't have a problem if they want to provide a Saturday service, but when they completely say it is a weekday service when it is not it is a disgrace, but from reading the Indo article, they claim things are getting better, all DB is about these days is PR spin rather than providing a service.

Their heads are buried in the sand, maybe I will supply them with a spade soon to help them dig their own grave even quicker.

Sadly,for my own job prospects SandyfordGuy`s observations are being repeated to Busdrivers throughout the network with depressing regularity....again and again we`re hearing it...."Gettin a Car" "Gettin a moped"......."Bought a Bike on the Cycle to work scheme"....."Organized a lift with a friend"

At this stage it appears the only growth sector is being fuelled by the Dept of Social Protection as they continue to issue Free Travel Passes with some gusto.

Perhaps these are being used to back-up the Media-Spin because if the current Public Perception continues on into 2011 we face a decidely bleak time in Dublin Public Transport ! :mad:

D'Peoples Voice

dfx- wrote: »

The 69 is a very high load service. The 1020 and 1050 dep from Rathcoole is standing room only as is into the city. Let's throw them off at the Red Cow. Any service from the city 1800-2200, it can be difficult to find a seat. Just what is it about Dublin Bus that thinks customers will pay twice to get into or from the city? And not get the Luas to avoid the new crowded 13s..

How is the 69 and 51C being improved and how is it more direct. Furthermore it would appear at 60 minute intervals, the empty 69s will become less frequent than their high load cousins currently operating.

To be fair numbers have been collapsing for the 69 route for years,
and this move to have a feeder service to the luas stop at the Red Cow has been muted for several years now. I believe it was discussed at local Government(SDCC) level a year or two ago, not sure if any proposals went to the DTO at that stage.
It makes a lot of sense, off peak, the bus was practically empty
while at peak many people were switching to the faster Dualway route which uses the Crumlin/Dolphins Barn bus corridor rather than crawl through Bluebell/Inchicore like DB.
That said, I was always of the belief that DB would not be circumsizing the bus route until the Luas reached Citywest.
But we have to assume that the Dublin Transportation Office know what they are doing, and if not, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt to put things right after the initial teething problems.

Dyr

When is someone in the media going to call the dublin bus PR dept on this "simplify's the network" horsesh*t. When there was f**k all food in romanian shops during the communist era were they "simplifying" consumer choice? Chancers

KD345

CIE wrote: »

(I'm surprised that the 155 didn't come back and that the 19A is still running between McKee Road and Limekiln Farm; that route can't be very reliable even today.)

The 19a is working quite well. It's as reliable as the other core cross city routes, which naturally can mean occasional delays, but generally I find the 19a to be punctual and carrying good loadings.

With regard to Tallaght, we know there are changes on the way, but the only thing finalised is the 27 and 77 merging as this is part of the Malahide Road phase, and the new routing for the 76. There will be changes to the 49, 50, 54a (possibly cross city), 56a, 65/b, and 77a, but nothing is confirmed just yet. Sometimes changes in one part of the city do impact on other areas, we're already seeing that happen with the Malahide Rd. 128 now replacing the 15 to Ballycullen, although the Templeogue changes are not due yet.

Personally, I think the Tallaght buses need to change. The area has developed a lot in recent years, and if done right, it will really improve the service there. I'd prefer to see more frequent core routes, for example, if the 50 was a bit more frequent it could replace the 65b in Killinarden, this could give a more consistent timetable to Killinarden instead of what's currently on offer. With many Killinarden residents traveling only to The Square, this would be a better service.

dfx-

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

To be fair numbers have been collapsing for the 69 route for years,
and this move to have a feeder service to the luas stop at the Red Cow has been muted for several years now. I believe it was discussed at local Government(SDCC) level a year or two ago, not sure if any proposals went to the DTO at that stage.
It makes a lot of sense, off peak, the bus was practically empty
while at peak many people were switching to the faster Dualway route which uses the Crumlin/Dolphins Barn bus corridor rather than crawl through Bluebell/Inchicore like DB.

:eek:

What 69s are you getting?

All of the evening departures from the city are more full than any other Clondalkin route. The 1935, 2015, 2100, 2200, 2315 departures have been standing room only, mainly thanks to tourists. I've been on a 2015 departure that has had to refuse passengers through Inchicore because it was too full. I've been on a lot of 2315 departures that are 3/4 full from the Quays. Very few routes, even the 39s, 46A, 16s or 19s or 145 can boast that. The two departures mentioned inbound at 1020 and 1050 are very well filled.

Even if they were to think that the loads were poor, what sort of improvement is expected by becoming a feeder service? Are there masses of 69 customers getting on at Rathcoole and alighting at the Red Cow? I certainly haven't seen any.

Or is it simply a crazy hair-brained DB idea? I'm betting on the latter.

What Dublin Bus "feeder service" (aka as 'going nowhere craziness') has actually been a success? Is there any? Any increased loads?

angel01

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

I will be withdrawing from using Dublin Bus from next year also, the last couple of days "Normal Weekday Service" has decided that for me. Both going to and from work yesterday and today my normal bus has not turned up. This is despite the fact I get on at either end of the terminus.

I called Dublin BUs who claimed that the bus did run, speaking to a driver on a later departure, he confirmed that some duties are not running until the new year, leaving gaps in services because of less than normal demand.

That compiled with the disastrous network direct means I will also be an ex customer. I don't have a problem if they want to provide a Saturday service, but when they completely say it is a weekday service when it is not it is a disgrace, but from reading the Indo article, they claim things are getting better, all DB is about these days is PR spin rather than providing a service.

Their heads are burred in the sand, maybe I will supply them with a spade soon to help them dig their own grave even quicker.

Yesterday I waited 25 mins either for a 11 or a 46A at Stephens Green, today I shall be walking to where I need to go :rolleyes::(

SteM

KD345 wrote: »

....
With regard to Tallaght, we know there are changes on the way, but the only thing finalised is the 27 and 77 merging as this is part of the Malahide Road phase, and the new routing for the 76.....

So the 77 won't be running from Ringsend anymore? Anyone knowhow it was decided to merge the route with the 27?

Cookie_Monster

dfx- wrote: »

What Dublin Bus "feeder service" (aka as 'going nowhere craziness') has actually been a success? Is there any? Any increased loads?

a very valid question.

jack presley

angel01 wrote: »

Yesterday I waited 25 mins either for a 11 or a 46A at Stephens Green, today I shall be walking to where I need to go :rolleyes::(

I've don't get the 46A but it passes my bus stop and I've never gotten my bus without at least 3-4 of them passing (half empty as well) before mine arrives. So it must have been one of those cold days in hell....

angel01

jack presley wrote: »

I've don't get the 46A but it passes my bus stop and I've never gotten my bus without at least 3-4 of them passing (half empty as well) before mine arrives. So it must have been one of those cold days in hell....

Believe me there were none going yesterday, if they want to run Sunday/Weekend service, let us know.. DB are a joke :mad:

Believe me if I had other options to use, I would use them. You just can't depend on them anymore. There were so little buses around and to stand at Stephens Green for over 25 mins waiting for a bus that goes to O'Connell Street is ridiculous

Devilman40k

jack presley wrote: »

I've don't get the 46A but it passes my bus stop and I've never gotten my bus without at least 3-4 of them passing (half empty as well) before mine arrives. So it must have been one of those cold days in hell....

Those "cold days in hell" on the 46A are becoming an ever increasing occurance, my commute involved 18 and 46A (yes even though I have a car!) and since the changes I have found the 46A becoming ever more unreliable - some evenings I've waited 20-25 minutes for one.

And now with the proposed changes to the 18(a reliable old warhorse -to me anyway - ) coming on stream in the new year I'm glad I wont be getting the bus, I'd rather sit in traffic than stand waiting for an hour for both buses