Dublin Bus Network Review

AlekSmart

The 40d will no longer serve finglas at all all its route through the residential section of finglas has been removed to allow it to use the dual carraigeway instead

Med1`s observation on the route 40 alignment is worth expanding upon as it raises another issue which should have been an integral part of Network Direct but most certainly was not.

As we have seen from the Phase 1 implimenation plan the focus is now on attempting to funnell more passengers on to a more efficiently run series of Trunk routes.

The Deloitte report sees this as the only way to maximise efficiency in a company which they found to be operating at or near the Europen norms for the sector.

Most,if not all of the alterations implimentated by the Company have been based upon large amounts of Statistical Data presented by the company as covering every possible permutation of events.

However some highly relevant aspects appear to have been either ignored or misrepresented by the company in the hasty attempt to get Network Direct up and running.

Two elements in particular stand out,the first is the introduction of the "Door Brake" to the companys fleet.

This feature,introduced under the guise of Safety has considerably lengthened Bus Stop Dwell speeds.

An additional delay of 10 seconds per stop on a route such as the 46A or 145 could contribute up to 8 minutes extra per journey,a figure which would immediately eliminate the gains made by alterations such as the elimination of Monkstown Farm,Stillorgan Village or any other direct operations proposed.

Added to this is the essentially inefficient nature of a 50% Cash Fare Transaction figure which has only been worsened by the insane decision to make Pre-Paid Tickets such as the Travel 90 more expensive than the cash equivalent.

IE: Increasing the T-90 to €18.50 thus making it more expensive per journey than the €1.80 cash fare simply cannot be justified as if even 10 persons per peak-time journey revert to cash it will impose an added delay on the journey as a whole.

I still believe that Network Direct is essentially a viable and sensible plan,but only if it is seen to encopmpass the Bus Service in it`s entirety rather than the Bit`s n Pieces manner that it currently attempts.

Thus,if the company intends to fill individual journeys to a level greater than heretofore,then it follows that the company must seek to reduce dwell time and increase passenger throughput on those journeys.

With the introduction of contactless Smart-Card technology the Company had a ready made test-bed to broaden the spectrum of the technology perhaps by offering a far greater level of discount for regular peak-time use.

It seems,however,that little if any thought was put into the non-timetable area of the Network Direct plan with the result that now some 4 months after it`s introduction we are still attempting a sticking plaster and twine approach with much hope for "tweaking" as a viable method of addressing the issues which have arisen.

Reasssessing the entire "Door Brake" scenario and putting some marketing effort into pre-paid ticket sales might offer some greater gains than all the "tweaking" in China.....so how long,we wonder,will it take for the penny to drop ? :rolleyes:

dfx-

thomasj wrote: »

There was a notice about this on the website earlier.

47 was terminating on Hawkins street

Did it also say September?:pac:

kthnxbai

med1 wrote: »

the 40d will no longer serve finglas at all all its route through the residential section of finglas has been removed to allow it to use the dual carraigeway instead

It still does serve Finglas... It will go down Mellows road and the dual carriageway past the village, right? Or at least that's what I can see from the diagram on DB website...

That's still serving Finglas... maybe not to the extent it did before, but you can hardly say it doesn't serve Finglas at all

Mellows Rd and the village would still have a fair number of people getting the bus... Besides, what with the 40 starting in the village, then going all through the west and south, I can't see anyone who usually get the bus from there wanting to take the 40, as it would add 15mins to their journey.

Surely most passengers getting the bus at the village would take either the 140 or the 40D

med1

kthnxbai wrote: »

It still does serve Finglas... It will go down Mellows road and the dual carriageway past the village, right? Or at least that's what I can see from the diagram on DB website...

That's still serving Finglas... maybe not to the extent it did before, but you can hardly say it doesn't serve Finglas at all

Mellows Rd and the village would still have a fair number of people getting the bus... Besides, what with the 40 starting in the village, then going all through the west and south, I can't see anyone who usually get the bus from there wanting to take the 40, as it would add 15mins to their journey.

Surely most passengers getting the bus at the village would take either the 140 or the 40D

this is where confusion works well
niether the 140 or 40d serve finglas village like the current 40a they stop on the dual carraigeway at the bottom of the village or on mellowes road at the labour exchange so people going tom the village dont use them rather use the 40 or 83 220 which do serve the village.
there are very few houses on mellowes road only 1 estate plus the park council offices fire station and labour exchange most people on the right side of the road ie barry avenue area will use the 40 into town.
what i do see happening in the near future with the changing of the 40d route is a loss of passengers so leading dublin bus to eventually cut the 40d back again in the near future like other routes on the n11 corridor as it misses a lot of current passengers that use it in the south

qerty

Cabra Changes are now up on the Dublin Bus website.
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-1/Cabra/

Cress

Saw this on FB:

devnull

It's wheel re-invention time folks!!!

Route 120 will continue to operate to Parnell Street with some morning peak trips extended to Ballsbridge

Did I read somewhere that the whole point of network direct was to make the network easier to understand. Surely that goes totally against that.

No doubt it is to sort the problems out with overcrowding on the 4 in the mornings to Ballsbridge. But surely the most sensible option would be to increase the frequency on the 4, back to what it was pre-network direct, terminate all the 120 services at current terminus still and then the network is much simpler and there would be less people asking the drivers on the 120 "Does this bus go to Ballsbridge?"

The whole situation with buses to Ballsbridge is getting hilarious now though!
- They cut back the 4 during peak badly
- They then introduced the 47 which did not add enough capacity to Balls bridge in the mornings
- They now are going to cut the 47 back when the timetable gets revised
- Now some morning 120 trips will run via Ballsbridge.

For goodness sake, I stopped commuting to this area recently because of how bad the service now is, how many times do they have to mess with this corridor and how many times do they need to try and reinvent before they realise IT WAS NOT BROKEN IN THE FIRST PLACE now it seems every few weeks we have a new fix, for something that was not broken pre network direct.

kthnxbai

med1 wrote: »

this is where confusion works well
niether the 140 or 40d serve finglas village like the current 40a they stop on the dual carraigeway at the bottom of the village or on mellowes road at the labour exchange so people going tom the village dont use them rather use the 40 or 83 220 which do serve the village.
there are very few houses on mellowes road only 1 estate plus the park council offices fire station and labour exchange most people on the right side of the road ie barry avenue area will use the 40 into town.
what i do see happening in the near future with the changing of the 40d route is a loss of passengers so leading dublin bus to eventually cut the 40d back again in the near future like other routes on the n11 corridor as it misses a lot of current passengers that use it in the south

In fairness, the stop at the bottom of the hill is 2 minutes from the 40 stop outside the church... As someone who gets these buses all the time, I honestly would say that the bottom of the hill counts as the village...

I just would have thought that anyone who'd usually get the bus from the bottom of the hill or even parts of the west would rather get the 40D because it would be a much faster service... I get the 40A from Cardiffsbridge Rd most of the time, and occasionally I'll get something from the village, but once the changes happen I wouldn't dream of getting a 40 from the village and going all up the west and south before going into town...

Now obviously I don't know any of the statistics or anything, but, from my experience in the mornings, the 40D is fairly full by the time it even gets to Finglas... I would have thought that the majority of the passengers on the 40D would be coming from or going to Tyrellstown...


I am interested though to see the timetable... It said on the DB website that the new 40 would have a frequency of 10 mins or better. Maybe I'm wrong, but I remember reading somewhere on their website that a frequency of 10 mins actually corresponded to an average wait time of 10 mins, which would mean that the 40 would only go every 20 minutes. Now, combined the 40/A go every 7 minutes during rush hour. And maybe the 40 is a different case, but the 40A is usually pretty packed in the morning, so I don't see how they can justify a cut like this

med1

kthnxbai wrote: »

In fairness, the stop at the bottom of the hill is 2 minutes from the 40 stop outside the church... As someone who gets these buses all the time, I honestly would say that the bottom of the hill counts as the village...

I just would have thought that anyone who'd usually get the bus from the bottom of the hill or even parts of the west would rather get the 40D because it would be a much faster service... I get the 40A from Cardiffsbridge Rd most of the time, and occasionally I'll get something from the village, but once the changes happen I wouldn't dream of getting a 40 from the village and going all up the west and south before going into town...

Now obviously I don't know any of the statistics or anything, but, from my experience in the mornings, the 40D is fairly full by the time it even gets to Finglas... I would have thought that the majority of the passengers on the 40D would be coming from or going to Tyrellstown...


I am interested though to see the timetable... It said on the DB website that the new 40 would have a frequency of 10 mins or better. Maybe I'm wrong, but I remember reading somewhere on their website that a frequency of 10 mins actually corresponded to an average wait time of 10 mins, which would mean that the 40 would only go every 20 minutes. Now, combined the 40/A go every 7 minutes during rush hour. And maybe the 40 is a different case, but the 40A is usually pretty packed in the morning, so I don't see how they can justify a cut like this

i use the buses in finglas a bit i live on st helenas road and would catch the 40d rather than the 40a as it is quicker to town than the 40a i use the 220 or walk to the village as the 40a is unreliable .the other problem with the village stop coming out of town is it is on the opposite side of the dual carraigeway and a good walk if you are elderly .the copy of the timetable i seen for the 40 says a bus every 2 to 15 minutes peak i really doubt this though

med1

qerty wrote: »

Cabra Changes are now up on the Dublin Bus website.
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-1/Cabra/

so the 121 gets cancelled no more buses on meath street then or kildare road /clogher road

Devilman40k

Or through the area between Cork St/the Coombe and SCR. Are DB Fianna Fail in disguise

CIE

med1 wrote: »

so the 121 gets cancelled no more buses on meath street then or kildare road /clogher road

What's the purpose of that? Great mistake. It would have made a bit of sense if the 120 were to operate via the former 121's southern leg, but total cancellation makes no sense. Even if something else is to replace that route (e.g. resurrecting the 81), this is no amalgamation but a cancellation, making the claim of amalgamation false.

The absurdity of cutting back traditional routes through Ballsbridge and surreptitiously replacing them with unfamiliar route numbers doesn't make anything "easier to understand" either. Used to be that I knew that the buses from the city centre to Ballsbridge were the 4, 5, 6, 6A, 7, 7A, 8, 45, 46, 64 and 84. Now, with this new headache, I'll certainly be driving; won't even take the DART what with the average speed being slowed down by adding intermediate stations, sorry to say. (Do any bus routes even serve Anglesea Road anymore, or are Donnybrook and Ballsbridge permanently cut off from each other by bus now?)

AlekSmart

CIE wrote: »

The absurdity of cutting back traditional routes through Ballsbridge and surreptitiously replacing them with unfamiliar route numbers doesn't make anything "easier to understand" either. Used to be that I knew that the buses from the city centre to Ballsbridge were the 4, 5, 6, 6A, 7, 7A, 8, 45, 46, 64 and 84. Now, with this new headache, I'll certainly be driving; won't even take the DART what with the average speed being slowed down by adding intermediate stations, sorry to say. (Do any bus routes even serve Anglesea Road anymore, or are Donnybrook and Ballsbridge permanently cut off from each other by bus now?)

The answer re Donnybrook/Ballsbridge is YES.

However it is,yet again,the highlighted comment which should be causing concern amongst those of us who depend on the continuing viability of Public Transport to survive.

There are now daily posts on this Board which raise highly pertinent and serious issues re this entire programme and which are not being addressed.

Why this should be is an interesting question especially in the light of all the National Transport Authority Hoo Hah we had in the past 12 months.....Hidden Agendas anybody....?

LXFlyer

med1 wrote: »

so the 121 gets cancelled no more buses on meath street then or kildare road /clogher road

It's quite possible another route will serve those areas instead - we haven't seen the plans for the Crumlin / South Circular Road yet. Maybe the 150 could be re-routed?

To me it appears that there has been a change in strategy as it looks like DB are now putting all the plans out to consultation area by area at the moment first before implementing any of them, and that the changes will be implemented after all of the consultations take place. This makes more sense given many of the changes affect multiple areas.

Devilman40k

lxflyer wrote: »

It's quite possible another route will serve those areas instead - we haven't seen the plans for the Crumlin / South Circular Road yet. Maybe the 150 could be re-routed?

To me it appears that there has been a change in strategy as it looks like DB are now putting all the plans out to consultation area by area at the moment first before implementing any of them, and that the changes will be implemented after all of the consultations take place. This makes more sense given many of the changes affect multiple areas.

If the 150 idea is a runner its one of the few changes that I might actually agree with ...as long as the frequency was maintained. And possibly extend the 150 to docklands too ? or at the very least take it away from that godawful terminus on Fleet St.

dfx-

One thing I noticed walking past the 66/67 stop this evening on College Green was AX566, AX582 and a VG on the 67 parked up on College Green. The timetable at the stop - CW - says buses operatin from Lucan to Merrion Square, yet AX566 operated a 66 with a destination of "Boardwalk" before going As Séirbhís and parking up at stop CW and the 67 operated to "Bachelor's Walk".

I looked at the timetable, there was no stipulation or footnote about some inbound services terminating at the stop. So do they leave from or arrive at Merrion Square or not?

thomasj

I'm confused ted by the cabra changes, was there not talk of:

- the 122 operating to sandymount (merging with the 2)
- the 120 operating the southbound leg of the 122
- the 150 operating part of the southbound leg of the 121

Was there not talk ofall this? Has it been parked?

thomasj

Was heading to baggott street this evening. Got a 39. On arriving at college green, most of the bus cleared with A couple still on and one or two boarded.

The driver made an announcement stating that there would be a short delay due to waiting on a driver. After ten minutes I got off and waited on another bus, after 10 minutes a 39a came. The 39 was still there! 20 minutes it was parked there as I left on the 39a could have been longer!

BenShermin

thomasj wrote: »

Was heading to baggott street this evening. Got a 39. On arriving at college green, most of the bus cleared with A couple still on and one or two boarded.

The driver made an announcement stating that there would be a short delay due to waiting on a driver. After ten minutes I got off and waited on another bus, after 10 minutes a 39a came. The 39 was still there! 20 minutes it was parked there as I left on the 39a could have been longer!

:rolleyes:

One of my friends was on a 39a a few days ago. He saw me as his bus passed D'Olier Street southbound. He phoned me and asked me did I see his bus, I said that I saw a 37 and that no 39 or 39a had passed me. He asked me what I was on about, as he was on a 39a since Clonsilla. When he got off said bus at College Green it was indeed changed to a 37.

I sware they are just making it up as they go along!!

Devilman40k

thomasj wrote: »

I'm confused ted by the cabra changes, was there not talk of:

- the 122 operating to sandymount (merging with the 2)
- the 120 operating the southbound leg of the 122
-

I remember something along the lines of this at the beginning of ND. I wonder if they are considering lengthening/rerouting the 2 to take in Ballsbridge also ??

CSaber

CIE wrote: »

What's the purpose of that? Great mistake. It would have made a bit of sense if the 120 were to operate via the former 121's southern leg, but total cancellation makes no sense. Even if something else is to replace that route (e.g. resurrecting the 81), this is no amalgamation but a cancellation, making the claim of amalgamation false.

The absurdity of cutting back traditional routes through Ballsbridge and surreptitiously replacing them with unfamiliar route numbers doesn't make anything "easier to understand" either. Used to be that I knew that the buses from the city centre to Ballsbridge were the 4, 5, 6, 6A, 7, 7A, 8, 45, 46, 64 and 84. Now, with this new headache, I'll certainly be driving; won't even take the DART what with the average speed being slowed down by adding intermediate stations, sorry to say. (Do any bus routes even serve Anglesea Road anymore, or are Donnybrook and Ballsbridge permanently cut off from each other by bus now?)

What intermediate stations have been added to the DART? The last one was Grand Canal Dock about ten years ago...

LittleBook

med1 wrote: »

so the 121 gets cancelled no more buses on meath street then or kildare road /clogher road

lxflyer wrote: »

It's quite possible another route will serve those areas instead - we haven't seen the plans for the Crumlin / South Circular Road yet. Maybe the 150 could be re-routed?

Devilman40k wrote: »

If the 150 idea is a runner its one of the few changes that I might actually agree with ...as long as the frequency was maintained. And possibly extend the 150 to docklands too ? or at the very least take it away from that godawful terminus on Fleet St.

Some days the 150 is full before it gets to Ashleaf SC, most days before it gets to Crumlin Hospital. I wouldn't be counting on it after that point.

Same on the way out, full by the time it gets to Christchurch.

Because it's (supposedly) frequent, they put out single deckers during rush hour.

It's a terrible service and the only thing it has going for it at the moment is that (between being full and the great bus lanes along Cork Street) it's practically and express for anyone living before the Ashleaf.

Gunslinger92

I wish they would do something about the 33, piece of absolute sh!t :mad:

clunked

In what way? Being honest I worked on the 33 more than 20 years ago and it seemed to carry more passengers then.

jack presley

clunked wrote: »

In what way? Being honest I worked on the 33 more than 20 years ago and it seemed to carry more passengers then.

20 years ago? I think there might have been a few changes in commuters and commuting since then.

clunked

I wouldn't deny that for one second Jack. Just wondering what the previous poster was unhappy with the 33.

Gunslinger92

clunked wrote: »

In what way? Being honest I worked on the 33 more than 20 years ago and it seemed to carry more passengers then.

In an ideal world, it would be a more frequent service. I always spend ridiculous amounts of time waiting for it, at least 40 minutes, easily an hour, when it is supposedly every 20 minutes or so. It doesn't make any sense to me that it is so infrequent, I mean, it's the only bus that'll take you to Rush or Lusk, and it is packed most of the time.

I guess I'm just bitter from spending lots of time waiting for it in the freezing cold :pac:

CIE

CSaber wrote: »

What intermediate stations have been added to the DART? The last one was Grand Canal Dock about ten years ago...

I suppose my memory goes further back, when there were no stations at Sandymount, Salthill, Clontarf, Clongriffin (which was opened last year, incidentally, making it the newest), or even Shankill (belatedly replacing the former Harcourt Street Line station after 19 years and pre-dating DART by seven years). Did my discourse about the parallel bus routes imply travel from the city centre...?

kthnxbai

Does anyone have any idea when the Finglas changes are actually gonna be implemented??

I've emailed DB about it, and they said mid-late January... And I check their website religiously... Just wondering if I'd missed something and it's been postponed...

I know I'll find out eventually... I'm just really impatient I guess...

I don't think it's asking too much for DB to keep it's customers informed about these fairly drastic changes

med1

kthnxbai wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea when the Finglas changes are actually gonna be implemented??

I've emailed DB about it, and they said mid-late January... And I check their website religiously... Just wondering if I'd missed something and it's been postponed...

I know I'll find out eventually... I'm just really impatient I guess...

I don't think it's asking too much for DB to keep it's customers informed about these fairly drastic changes

it is put back to mid february at the earliest due to protests from finglas south residents and charlestown shopping centre