Dublin Bus Network Review

AlekSmart

CIE wrote: »

Say, does that new road that connects from Drummartin Road in Goatstown to Kilgobbin Road in Sandyford have a name...? because I don't see one on the map. If anyone remembers the old route 62, this looks like the right artery to re-start that old route number on, perhaps running through to Kilternan via Ballyogan and Glenamuck (especially since the 63 was strangely re-routed to Dun Laoghaire); it'd be a more direct way to get from Ballyogan to the city centre than on the 44 and would allow the 44 to run between the city centre and Enniskerry without having to divert via Ballyogan.

The understatement of the decade,so far.

For any interested observer,the 47,63 and 84 Routes represent some of the most puzzling aspects of Dublin Buses interpretation of the Deloitte "principles".

LXFlyer

AlekSmart wrote: »

The understatement of the decade,so far.

For any interested observer,the 47,63 and 84 Routes represent some of the most puzzling aspects of Dublin Buses interpretation of the Deloitte "principles".

I would have interpreted that report as meaning the principle routes on each corridor should be direct, but that you are always going to need other routes that serve the community in a social capacity and that do service estates and bring them closer to other services, such as hospitals (as in the 47 serving St Vincent's), the local authority offices (the 63 links Ballyogan, Carrickmines with the local authority offices in Dun Laoghaire) etc.

If I recall correctly there was a local demand for some considerable time in Ballyogan for a direct bus to Dun Laoghaire which they now have in the form of the 63.

At the end the day the network needs a balance between direct services to/from the city serving commuters and local social services that service the estates, shopping centres, hospitals and local authority services.

CIE

lxflyer wrote: »

I would have interpreted that report as meaning the princip(al) routes on each corridor should be direct, but that you are always going to need other routes that serve the community in a social capacity and that do service estates and bring them closer to other services, such as hospitals (as in the 47 serving St Vincent's), the local authority offices (the 63 links Ballyogan, Carrickmines with the local authority offices in Dun Laoghaire) etc.

If I recall correctly there was a local demand for some considerable time in Ballyogan for a direct bus to Dun Laoghaire which they now have in the form of the 63.

At the end the day the network needs a balance between direct services to/from the city serving commuters and local social services that service the estates, shopping centres, hospitals and local authority services.

"Social capacity"? Does that have a definition...?

You don't fix a bus service by breaking it altogether. Carrickmines and Glenamuck are now cut off from the city by bus. The matter of instituting a service between there and Dun Laoghaire should have been a completely separate one from maintaining the 63's traditional city centre operation. (How about route number 113? It hasn't been in use since they used it for an ill-fated "DART Feeder" route between Blackrock and Cabinteely.)

You don't create a balance by eviscerating a network. Consider the absence of the old route 86, which used to be a busy route even into the early 90s. Now what route serves Torquay Road and Brighton Road, or even Westminster Road?

(PS. Why was there one-way operation on the 63 via Kerrymount Avenue for so many years, instead of running bi-directionally on Brighton Road? I suppose the reasoning behind that is the same as why no bridge was built for Clonkeen Road over the Cabinteely Bypass...)

LXFlyer

Given the Luas stops in Carrickmines is a direct bus that necessary. As for Glenamuck, I would imagine that the one or two people discommoded will adjust somehow - the way you put it you would think that thousands were affected.

What is it with your constant references in your posts to the way the network was 20 odd years ago? Surprisingly enough travel patterns change as has the city - one can only assume that you have not been here for some considerable time or you would be more aware that for example the 86 carried single digit loads for much of the last 10 years of it's life. You seem to have a complete mental blockage to any changes in the network and to be unable to accept that certain services are just not needed any more due to changes in travel patterns or new infrastructure such as Luas.

The reason for the one way routing along Kerrymount Avenue was very simple. The left turn from Carrickmines onto Brighton Road was too tight for a bus to make...nothing more sinister than that.

KD345

CIE wrote: »

"Social capacity"? Does that have a definition...?

You don't fix a bus service by breaking it altogether. Carrickmines and Glenamuck are now cut off from the city by bus. The matter of instituting a service between there and Dun Laoghaire should have been a completely separate one from maintaining the 63's traditional city centre operation. (How about route number 113? It hasn't been in use since they used it for an ill-fated "DART Feeder" route between Blackrock and Cabinteely.)

You don't create a balance by eviscerating a network. Consider the absence of the old route 86, which used to be a busy route even into the early 90s. Now what route serves Torquay Road and Brighton Road, or even Westminster Road?

The 63 is far from broken. Have you used the new service at all, or are you simply looking at a route from 20 years ago and comparing it to today?

The 63 is carrying good numbers and is now more reliable with the recent timetable change. It has a clock-face timetable, good running time and links many areas together, providing good connections with the N11, Green Line Luas and Dun Laoghaire.

The Green Line Luas has completely changed the travel patterns of bus passengers in this part of the city, and I think the change to the 63 was clever to prevent it dying off altogether.

CIE, I agree with lxflyer. You seem to constantly refer to old routes in every one of your posts and at times it can be confusing. I would also have an interest in routes of the past, but this thread is about Dublin Bus having to adapt to a changing city and reduced revenue. Perhaps a separate thread about old bus routes might be less confusing for those looking for information on future changes.

CIE

lxflyer wrote: »

Given the Luas stops in Carrickmines is a direct bus that necessary. As for Glenamuck, I would imagine that the one or two people discommoded will adjust somehow - the way you put it you would think that thousands were affected

That doesn't account for the 63's re-routing. There's a market there for more than your imaginary "one or two" passengers who are multiplied by many more. I don't recall a Luas station on Westminster Road or Torquay Road.

lxflyer wrote: »

What is it with your constant references in your posts to the way the network was 20 odd years ago? Surprisingly enough travel patterns change as has the city - one can only assume that you have not been here for some considerable time or you would be more aware that for example the 86 carried single digit loads for much of the last 10 years of it's life. You seem to have a complete mental blockage to any changes in the network and to be unable to accept that certain services are just not needed any more due to changes in travel patterns or new infrastructure such as Luas

Travel patterns don't change all that much, even with the development of "edge cities" thanks to motorways. The city centre retains its importance, and forcing people to drive there instead of offering them the choice of a reliable bus service is a strain on the economy.

And frankly, I don't understand all the "Luas-centric" thinking as it were. Is the Luas the be all and end all of city transport all of a sudden? The current trend of attempting to force Luas useage by diverting or cancelling city-centre routes is doomed to failure, because it's angering passengers and making them switch to automobiles instead.

lxflyer wrote: »

The reason for the one way routing along Kerrymount Avenue was very simple. The left turn from Carrickmines onto Brighton Road was too tight for a bus to make...nothing more sinister than that

So with all the road improvements done over the past couple of decades, the crossroads at Glenamuck Road/Brighton Road/Cornelscourt Hill Road/Brennanstown Road couldn't be improved enough to allow a bus to turn left from Glenamuck Road onto Brighton Road? (Oh wait; yes it was...so that fabrication is in the rubbish bin, never mind the fact that during the so-called "tight" left turn days, the 63 was running single-deck Leyland Leopards that were later replaced with KC-class single-deckers with a very tight turning radius) and all the people that live in these developments along Glenamuck Road would rather drive to town and ride the bus to Dun Laoghaire? The Luas does not offer the same range of destinations, is cramped and of limited capacity (especially compared with a DART; could the Green Line even be converted to DART at this point?), is less secure, and current government policy is resulting in balkanisation of the city bus network in the hope that it will somehow "benefit" one particular transport mode. Great way to discourage travel around Dublin by public means, or travel into Dublin at all.

(BTW, I continue to presume that my idea for a "new" route 62 is still viable...)

markpb

CIE wrote: »

And frankly, I don't understand all the "Luas-centric" thinking as it were. Is the Luas the be all and end all of city transport all of a sudden? The current trend of attempting to force Luas useage by diverting or cancelling city-centre routes is doomed to failure, because it's angering passengers and making them switch to automobiles instead.

What's the point in paying DB and RPA to serve both the same areas and routes? What proof do you have that it's angering passengers? The lack of integrated ticketing might anger them but it's very close now.

KD345

CIE wrote: »

The city centre retains its importance, and forcing people to drive there instead of offering them the choice of a reliable bus service is a strain on the economy.

And frankly, I don't understand all the "Luas-centric" thinking as it were. Is the Luas the be all and end all of city transport all of a sudden? The current trend of attempting to force Luas useage by diverting or cancelling city-centre routes is doomed to failure, because it's angering passengers and making them switch to automobiles instead.

Where bus and Luas run side by side, passengers have switched to Luas. You only have to look at passenger numbers on the 48a and 56a for evidence of this. Passengers are not being forced to drive, the 63 still covers the same key areas, more frequently than before, and offers them connections with Luas and the 145 on the N11. The previous 63 had 12 services, this new 63 has 32. This is far more attractive to anybody considering using the service in Kilternan and Carrickmines to know there is an all day 30 minute frequency.

I know some people in the area who now use the service to get to Dun Laoghaire. Any time I have used it recently, the loadings have been very good. I really don't understand your belief that this route is "broken", "doomed" and "angering passengers".

The Luas does not offer the same range of destinations, is cramped and of limited capacity

The Green Line Luas beyond Sandyford is certainly not cramped, and capacity is fine.

CIE, have you used the new 63 or Luas in the Carrickmines area?

Conway635

CIE wrote: »

So with all the road improvements done over the past couple of decades, the crossroads at Glenamuck Road/Brighton Road/Cornelscourt Hill Road/Brennanstown Road couldn't be improved enough to allow a bus to turn left from Glenamuck Road onto Brighton Road? (Oh wait; yes it was...so that fabrication is in the rubbish bin, never mind the fact that during the so-called "tight" left turn days, the 63 was running single-deck Leyland Leopards that were later replaced with KC-class single-deckers with a very tight turning radius)

CIE, by the time that road improvement was made, the 63 routing had already been changed to carry on straight through the junction, and down the hill to Cornelscourt Hill, and into the city that way.

With the exception of a couple of offpeak trips, the 63 has not been serving Foxrock Village for several years now.

C635

LXFlyer

CIE wrote: »

That doesn't account for the 63's re-routing. There's a market there for more than your imaginary "one or two" passengers who are multiplied by many more. I don't recall a Luas station on Westminster Road or Torquay Road.Travel patterns don't change all that much, even with the development of "edge cities" thanks to motorways. The city centre retains its importance, and forcing people to drive there instead of offering them the choice of a reliable bus service is a strain on the economy.



And frankly, I don't understand all the "Luas-centric" thinking as it were. Is the Luas the be all and end all of city transport all of a sudden? The current trend of attempting to force Luas useage by diverting or cancelling city-centre routes is doomed to failure, because it's angering passengers and making them switch to automobiles instead.So with all the road improvements done over the past couple of decades, the crossroads at Glenamuck Road/Brighton Road/Cornelscourt Hill Road/Brennanstown Road couldn't be improved enough to allow a bus to turn left from Glenamuck Road onto Brighton Road? (Oh wait; yes it was...so that fabrication is in the rubbish bin, never mind the fact that during the so-called "tight" left turn days, the 63 was running single-deck Leyland Leopards that were later replaced with KC-class single-deckers with a very tight turning radius) and all the people that live in these developments along Glenamuck Road would rather drive to town and ride the bus to Dun Laoghaire? The Luas does not offer the same range of destinations, is cramped and of limited capacity (especially compared with a DART; could the Green Line even be converted to DART at this point?), is less secure, and current government policy is resulting in balkanisation of the city bus network in the hope that it will somehow "benefit" one particular transport mode. Great way to discourage travel around Dublin by public means, or travel into Dublin at all.



(BTW, I continue to presume that my idea for a "new" route 62 is still viable...)

Whatever you might like to think "CIE", the reality is that loadings on the 63 and 86 were frankly decimated when the Stillorgan QBC was introduced - people simply voted with their feet onto the 46a.

The subsequent introduction of the LUAS green line saw passenger numbers drop substantially on the bus routes that ran along the LUAS and before you ask, in most cases the existing bus frequency continued operating for several months after the launch of the LUAS.

No matter how you want to paint it, and I admire your enthusiasm for the bus, the fact is that people left it in droves out of their own choice! No matter how you want to dress it up you're not going to change that, and the bus company needs to change the network to accept that reality.

As for the the junction at Carrickmines Road/Brighton Road - the redevelopment of the road and the widening of that junction all happened subsequent to the 63 being re-routed via Cornelscourt Hill Road, and not before.

Your view of my explanation regarding why buses operated via Kerrymount Avenue at Carrickmines as a "fabrication" I would suggest is somewhat insulting, given it is actually the truth. But sure you don't believe it so it must be wrong.

Sometimes, just sometimes, it is actually a good thing to accept that you might be incorrect and that someone else who explains something to you in good faith is right rather than descending into somewhat insulting retorts and trying to bluster your way out of the situation?

As for your suggestion re the 62 -I just cannot see it being viable. Ballyogan has the LUAS and people out of their own free will are using it rather than the bus. The 11 more than adquately serves Kilmacud/Goatstown. The LUAS green line is a far superior product and where people have the option of using it they appear to do exactly that.

FridaysWell

CIE wrote: »

Say, does that new road that connects from Drummartin Road in Goatstown to Kilgobbin Road in Sandyford have a name...? because I don't see one on the map. If anyone remembers the old route 62, this looks like the right artery to re-start that old route number on, perhaps running through to Kilternan via Ballyogan and Glenamuck (especially since the 63 was strangely re-routed to Dun Laoghaire); it'd be a more direct way to get from Ballyogan to the city centre than on the 44 and would allow the 44 to run between the city centre and Enniskerry without having to divert via Ballyogan.

Sorry whats with everyones fascination in 'bringing back' old route numbers and all that?? Look, we don't need stuff like that, we need a bloody efficent service, one that works, and this is the place to discuss it, well discuss Dublin Bus's attempt at it i.e Network Direct.

So stop talking about old services and all and lets start talking about the existing problems, how to solve them and what to do about it. Yes I understand your saying this is one way that Ballyogan can have a dirent link to the city centre, but the 44 seems to be fine and don't forget the Luas is running through there now, most people are going to switch to that, and anyways Ballyogan isn't a hug area there isn't a huge market there for a new service.

Back to the real world, anyone know what the story with the 11 is?
Nothing on the Dublin Bus website or from any drivers I've asked, but people here talking about it being cut off from the northside and being re-routed from the IFSC to Sandyford. ****ing stupid if you ask me. Keep that service Dublin Bus, it WORKS!

The 37, 38, 39 and 70 why don't they make life easier for everybody and terminate those buses at Wilton Terrace? Plenty of room, good city centre terminus etc. Baggot Street is a terrible place for a terminus, 10 mins to Suffolk street, and all that traffic and congestion...

The 17. Great service, as in the route is pretty uselful to whoever lives on it. I use it alot. Now why is it so unreliable? E.g this happened several times, bus due to leave Rialto at 9.35 am (weekdays) I get to my bus stop, which is 5 mins away from the terminus, at 9.25 am. By 10.00 am no bus has shown up and I get the 10.15 am bus, wasting my bloody time. This happened quite a few times, why does a bus thats due not turn up at all? Does it not exist? And don't tell me its because of running times, because its just not...

If Dublin Bus take the service they provide and themselves seriously, and if they really cared, we would have a bus service that works.

We live in a 'modern' city and the bus service is embarresing.

LXFlyer

FridaysWell wrote: »

Sorry whats with everyones fascination in 'bringing back' old route numbers and all that?? Look, we don't need stuff like that, we need a bloody efficent service, one that works, and this is the place to discuss it, well discuss Dublin Bus's attempt at it i.e Network Direct.

So stop talking about old services and all and lets start talking about the existing problems, how to solve them and what to do about it. Yes I understand your saying this is one way that Ballyogan can have a dirent link to the city centre, but the 44 seems to be fine and don't forget the Luas is running through there now, most people are going to switch to that, and anyways Ballyogan isn't a hug area there isn't a huge market there for a new service.

Back to the real world, anyone know what the story with the 11 is?
Nothing on the Dublin Bus website or from any drivers I've asked, but people here talking about it being cut off from the northside and being re-routed from the IFSC to Sandyford. ****ing stupid if you ask me. Keep that service Dublin Bus, it WORKS!

The 37, 38, 39 and 70 why don't they make life easier for everybody and terminate those buses at Wilton Terrace? Plenty of room, good city centre terminus etc. Baggot Street is a terrible place for a terminus, 10 mins to Suffolk street, and all that traffic and congestion...

The 17. Great service, as in the route is pretty uselful to whoever lives on it. I use it alot. Now why is it so unreliable? E.g this happened several times, bus due to leave Rialto at 9.35 am (weekdays) I get to my bus stop, which is 5 mins away from the terminus, at 9.25 am. By 10.00 am no bus has shown up and I get the 10.15 am bus, wasting my bloody time. This happened quite a few times, why does a bus thats due not turn up at all? Does it not exist? And don't tell me its because of running times, because its just not...

If Dublin Bus take the service they provide and themselves seriously, and if they really cared, we would have a bus service that works.

We live in a 'modern' city and the bus service is embarresing.

I understand that Wilton Terrace was vetoed as a large scale bus terminus by Dublin City Council on health and safety grounds as they are introducing a cycleway along the canal - hence the bus company had to find somewhere else for the routes to terminate.

I would imagine that we'll find out the plans for the 11 when they get around to the consultations on the Swords Road/Glasnevin and Rathmines/Ranelagh areas - to be fair to them if they put everything up at once the deluge of responses would be impossible to sift through - it is generally better to phase these things.

FridaysWell

lxflyer wrote: »

I understand that Wilton Terrace was vetoed as a large scale bus terminus by Dublin City Council on health and safety grounds as they are introducing a cycleway along the canal - hence the bus company had to find somewhere else for the routes to terminate.

I would imagine that we'll find out the plans for the 11 when they get around to the consultations on the Swords Road/Glasnevin and Rathmines/Ranelagh areas - to be fair to them if they put everything up at once the deluge of responses would be impossible to sift through - it is generally better to phase these things.

Parked/Slow Moving buses wouldn't be a problem for cyclists... Typical Irish response, does anyone take their jobs seriously or at least care to do it right?

I understand what you mean when you say they can't put everything up at once, just that alot of people on this were commenting on changes to the 11 and wit nothing from Dublin Bus I just wanted to see a source.
To be honest Ranelagh hardly has a bus service to speak of... Tis terrible. It be so easy to organise bus services across this city... If someone gives me a tenner I'll draw up my proposals for the city

LXFlyer

FridaysWell wrote: »

Parked/Slow Moving buses wouldn't be a problem for cyclists... Typical Irish response, does anyone take their jobs seriously or at least care to do it right?

I understand what you mean when you say they can't put everything up at once, just that alot of people on this were commenting on changes to the 11 and wit nothing from Dublin Bus I just wanted to see a source.
To be honest Ranelagh hardly has a bus service to speak of... Tis terrible. It be so easy to organise bus services across this city... If someone gives me a tenner I'll draw up my proposals for the city

It could have been a problem, given there were originally plans for the 25/a/b, 26, 38/a, 39, 66/a/b, 67 and 70 all terminating there along with Bus Eireann route 100X. That's a lot of buses!! The cycleway is going to be encroaching on what is the street currently and on those grounds DCC didn't want a large scale terminus there.

Things are rarely straightforward!

As for the potential changes to the 11 - the source (as posted earlier in this thread) was what the company told the unions last year. Again though as above in outer areas, the reality is that many people in Ranelagh have also switched from the bus to LUAS out of their own free will.

FridaysWell

lxflyer wrote: »

It could have been a problem, given there were originally plans for the 25/a/b, 26, 38/a, 39, 66/a/b, 67 and 70 all terminating there along with Bus Eireann route 100X. That's a lot of buses!! The cycleway is going to be encroaching on what is the street currently and on those grounds DCC didn't want a large scale terminus there.

Things are rarely straightforward!

As for the potential changes to the 11 - the source (as posted earlier in this thread) was what the company told the unions last year. Again though as above in outer areas, the reality is that many people in Ranelagh have also switched from the bus to LUAS out of their own free will.

No thats true I forgot to say that, many people have switched to the LUAS in Ranelagh. But there are parts to it that do need a bus service, a decent one anyways, especially if the 11 is to be changed. Like the parts were Milltown and Ranelagh meet etc.

ardmacha

Consider the absence of the old route 86, which used to be a busy route even into the early 90s. Now what route serves Torquay Road and Brighton Road, or even Westminster Road?

The "old route 86" was designed to replace the Harcourt St line, was it not? So it would be the one most rendered redundant by the LUAS.

As for the 11, the extension of the 11A along the old 46B route in Mount Merrion would seem obvious, as posted here by Aleksmart and others.

CIE

ardmacha wrote: »

The "old route 86" was designed to replace the Harcourt St line, was it not? So it would be the one most rendered redundant by the LUAS.

As for the 11, the extension of the 11A along the old 46B route in Mount Merrion would seem obvious, as posted here by Aleksmart and others.

I wasn't talking about North and South Avenues.

And the Luas Green Line does not serve every point formerly served by the 86. It is not accessible from Torquay Road, Brighton Road, Cornelscourt Hill Road, the centre of Cabinteely, Johnstown Road or Rochestown Avenue (where the 86 was routed in the 1970s onwards). Nor does it serve the centre of Stillorgan, just like the 86 did not serve the former Carrickmines station location (the 63 did).

AlekSmart

lxflyer: I understand that Wilton Terrace was vetoed as a large scale bus terminus by Dublin City Council on health and safety grounds as they are introducing a cycleway along the canal - hence the bus company had to find somewhere else for the routes to terminate.

Yes indeed,and my understanding is the veto only surfaced at the 11th hour leaving Dublin Bus in a bit of a pickle,what with having designed all these improved routes with a particiular terminus in mind...Oh well...it`s part of what we are...:o

Fridays Well: The 37, 38, 39 and 70 why don't they make life easier for everybody and terminate those buses at Wilton Terrace? Plenty of room, good city centre terminus etc. Baggot Street is a terrible place for a terminus, 10 mins to Suffolk street, and all that traffic and congestion...

Ah but of course....Baggot St...there ye go...Problem Solved....sorta...kinda....:rolleyes:

Poor oul Deloitte...all that consulting...all that number crunching...and to what end...?

LXFlyer

CIE wrote: »

I wasn't talking about North and South Avenues.

And the Luas Green Line does not serve every point formerly served by the 86. It is not accessible from Torquay Road, Brighton Road, Cornelscourt Hill Road, the centre of Cabinteely, Johnstown Road or Rochestown Avenue (where the 86 was routed in the 1970s onwards). Nor does it serve the centre of Stillorgan, just like the 86 did not serve the former Carrickmines station location (the 63 did).

Why would anyone from any of those areas take the 86 which meandered via Upper Kilmacud, Dundrum, Milltown and Ranelagh, encountering heavy traffic en route, when within a short walk they have a high frequency service in the form of the 46a and/or the 145 that operates directly to the city and has a bus lane for virtually the entire route.

Answer? They didn't. They voted with their feet and switched.

You really need to move on from the bus network as it was 20 years ago. Times have changed and people have too.

backboiler

AlekSmart wrote: »

Poor oul Deloitte...all that consulting...all that number crunching...and to what end...?

A big bag o' money?
Anyway I'm sure they'll get another go at it in a couple of years when the balls-up currently under way is complete.

CIE

lxflyer wrote: »

Why would anyone from any of those areas take the 86 which meandered via Upper Kilmacud, Dundrum, Milltown and Ranelagh, encountering heavy traffic en route, when within a short walk they have a high frequency service in the form of the 46a and/or the 145 that operates directly to the city and has a bus lane for virtually the entire route.

Answer? They didn't. They voted with their feet and switched.

You really need to move on from the bus network as it was 20 years ago. Times have changed and people have too.

No, they didn't switch. They were forced off the bus because the government thought somehow it would boost Luas ridership. Now they drive, most likely.

The 46A and 145 do not serve Torquay Road and Brighton Road either, so what are you talking about?

Conway635

CIE wrote: »

No, they didn't switch. They were forced off the bus because the government thought somehow it would boost Luas ridership. Now they drive, most likely.

That is not correct. The 86 had dwindled to a once-a-day service BEFORE the Green LUAS line opened, so no connection with a scheme to boost LUAS ridership.

The biggest cut in the 86, reducing it from a "full service" route (departures throughout the whole of the day) took place in 2000, when numbers using it had dwindled to a point where the route could not be sustained. Or in other words within a year or two of the introduction of the Stillorgan QBC.

The remaining peak hour services (in and out) were reduced in number over the years, and the last remaining outbound departure stopped after the end of the school term in May 2004.

Have you ever lived on the 86?

I have - for a long period in the early 1980s, boarding at jct Torquay/Leopardstown Roads, and again in the early 90s for a period at Rochestown Avenue.

Even in the 80s, when it was a half-hourly service for most of the day, few people used it to get from Foxrock to the city centre - the passengers seemed more to avail of it for local suburban connections, such as Stillorgan to Dundrum (now well covered by 75) and as a supplement to the 44/48A service inbound from Dundrum. Few passengers were carried south of Leopardstown in the 90s - when i used it at varying times I would have the bus almost to myself.

C635

LXFlyer

CIE wrote: »

No, they didn't switch. They were forced off the bus because the government thought somehow it would boost Luas ridership. Now they drive, most likely.

The 46A and 145 do not serve Torquay Road and Brighton Road either, so what are you talking about?

Further to what C635 adds, none of the Dublin Bus routes along the LUAS lines were reduced in frequency until almost a full year after the LUAS started operating, by which time people had voted with their feet and switched in large numbers from the bus to tram out of their own free will.

I would ask what are you talking about because from reading your posts you patently have no clue about how travel patterns have developed. You accuse me of making up a fabrication with regard to Carrickmines Cross, when in fact several people have backed me up, although I note you've not actually acknowledged that.

It is really is time to move on from discussing the Dublin Bus network of 20 years ago or whenever you last were using it and to come up with sensible suggestions for the future.

Cookie_Monster

ardmacha wrote: »

The "old route 86" was designed to replace the Harcourt St line, was it not? So it would be the one most rendered redundant by the LUAS.

I made the mistake of getting that home from college one day, 2.5 hours as opposed to the normal 35-40 mins on the 145 + 10 min walk.
never made it again

patrickbrophy18

The map on mkmaps seems to have a record of the 86's old allignment before it ceased operations and from what I can see, it would have been a nightmare to get with the superfluous meandering involved, especially, if you are travelling from the starting point to the terminus.

If my memory of working in Damastown is anything to go by, the bus services on the northern half of the N3 in the Dublin 15 region are a mess. In the process of trying to accomodate newly developed business parks, extensions are added to routes in the nearby vacinity which makes the journey length unnecessarily long. Instead, business parks in such areas should have their own dedicated route from the city centre as well as feeder buses to their nearest train station. While the Dublin 15 area is absolutely massive and is almost a city in itself, a lot of the routing alignments from Phoenix Park Train Station onwards are incredibly indirect.

For example, Tyrrellstown and Ballycoolin should be covered by the 38B and the 38C while the 38 and 38A cover the Damastown and Mulhuddart areas. However, if buses start exchanging route alignment stretches then that's asking for trouble.

rx8

Notices this morning seem to suggest that the next phase will go ahead in 4-6 weeks time,and yes it is proposed to only run the number 11 on the southside and do away with the wadelai section.

monument

rx8 wrote: »

Notices this morning seem to suggest that the next phase will go ahead in 4-6 weeks time,and yes it is proposed to only run the number 11 on the southside and do away with the wadelai section.

Where was this said?

AlekSmart

monument wrote: »

Where was this said?

As part of the normal IR procedures there are regular Management/Union meetings.

One of these was scheduled as a "review" of the Network Direct programme to date.

It would appear that the Company has a somewhat different view of the Network Direct programme to either it`s Staff or more importantly,it`s customers.

Anyway,it appears the Company confirmed that it`s plans for the Network Directing of the 11 route stands as originally outlined some 12 months ago.

Incredibly,the company insist that the route is to be truncated to Southside operation only,with a reduction of 5 Buses in its total Peak Requirement.(Currently 13,proposed 8)
The termini remain as "Sandyford" to "IFSC",with no exact details for either.
The schedule is stated to be 15/20 Min weekday-20/30 Saturday-30 Min Sunday.

It should be stressed that these are proposals,which appear odd in that they have not altered since the original document despite quite significant changes in almost every other Network Directed route.

Additionally there was no mention at this meeting of the Roisin Shortall revelations of a "merger" with the 19A route.

The entire thing now appears to be a "Done-Deal" with the most telling aspect being the fast appearing realization that the 200 vehicle fleet reduction simply has to have a negative impact upon service levels.

kthnxbai

rx8 wrote: »

Notices this morning seem to suggest that the next phase will go ahead in 4-6 weeks time,and yes it is proposed to only run the number 11 on the southside and do away with the wadelai section.

4-6 weeks?

they still haven't implemented the last set of changes... and their website still says they'll be implemented early January 2011

darragh16

Just wondering does anyone have a list of the Real-Time information bus stops?

Also, does anyone know if Tallaght will be undergoing any network direct changes. I've heard it about re-routing of buses in certain parts of the local area but that was a while ago.