Dublin Bus Network Review

Devilman40k

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't disagree with that but there are some routes that do go around with very few passengers and could (given the fall off in passenger numbers) be merged with other routes quite easily while causing minimum disruption.

I agree that some routes can and are being cut and will cause a minimum amount of disruption, BUT there are far more routes which are being cut/curtailed/merged just for the sake of cutting them and are causing large amounts of disruption.

Less frequent,less reliable services will not increase passenger numbers in any way and having experienced ND Phase 1 myself ,and gone back to using a car as a result of it, I think its safe to say that these "improvements" could sound a death knell for Dublin Bus

WBrazel

Lxflyer this is a tough one to call with regards to the 17A.

Beaumont Hospital is a big focal point in the community. However it is placed in a very inaccessible place, like most things in Ireland.

The 17A has to go on a very long winded de-tour to serve Beaumont, that can add anywhere between 8 and 15mins. Even if it picks up 6-7 pax on a good trip it doesn't make up for the detour. And reality is it hasn't yet been approaching these levels on average.

The 104 linked most of these areas with Beaumont, and obviously with its culling, it was decided to keep a link. However, the 104 never did well, single digits. Which calls into question why keep Beaumont Hospital. Previously Northside Shopping Centre were the busiest stops on the route. Now in order to get west of this you go on a long winded detour. Of course this is reducing custom. I think it should revert with the 27B continuing along Coolock Lane in order to act as a feeder bus to the 17A.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

But how many people use it to/from the hospital now? It may not suit you, but perhaps it does suit other people? ... You are never going to please everyone when you change a network - what suits some will not suit others.

During the morning and evening peak periods, no-one has ever used the hospital stop while I was on it (before I gave up) but that's not the point I was making. Dublin Bus have complained for years that road infrastructure isn't good enough in Dublin but now they're pulling bus routes off more suitable roads (Oscar Traynor, Glasnevin Ave) and onto less suitable roads that have been changed to slow down traffic by installing speed ramps and where parking enforcement is nill so the buses are forced to crawl around going nowhere quickly.

If they wanted to save money they could cut costs by all the things we talk about here all the time (reducing dwell time by discounting prepaid tickets, using the middle door, making sure handover drivers are present, etc).

WBrazel

I'd agree with Mark. The point of Network Review was to have core direct routes that used quicker more bus friendly routes. Wadelai Park first received a service in the late 40s when the 13 was extended there. Historically new estates would have had buses put into them. However it also had to do with the furthest estate along a particular road was used as a terminus. Buses need somewhere to turn.

So some estates got bus services, others didn't. Wadelai Park/St. Pappin's Road, is close in all regards to a number of routes, the 19A basically circles it. For the vast majority of other estates of similar size in Dublin this is what you get. A bus a few minutes walk away. In true Irish spirit, because they have it, they keep it, and the bus has to take a long and ill-advised (from a road perspective) meander.

Don't get me wrong there is a place for a community service. And such routes should exist, especially in the off peak period. Doing this would allow duties to be placed on core routes at peaks, but to do more community/estate services in the offpeak. The network would be quite similar to Belfast's.

The people of Wadelai are not to be messed with when it comes to their bus service. In 1980 the 13 was extended through their estate to Ballymun. To protest against this the residents of Wadelai blocked a bus from leaving their estate. They were concerned buses would be too full reaching them. A few years later the 11s were extended and started from the estate.

LXFlyer

Devilman40k wrote: »

I agree that some routes can and are being cut and will cause a minimum amount of disruption, BUT there are far more routes which are being cut/curtailed/merged just for the sake of cutting them and are causing large amounts of disruption.

Less frequent,less reliable services will not increase passenger numbers in any way and having experienced ND Phase 1 myself ,and gone back to using a car as a result of it, I think its safe to say that these "improvements" could sound a death knell for Dublin Bus

There were two fundamental problems with phase 1:
1) Getting the running times wrong. Many of the rosters backing up the timetables were simply unachieveable, which destroyed any form of reliability on most of the routes. That is something that they cannot do again. Some of them have now been addressed, but they've still to sort out the 38/a, 39/a and 145.

This was less of an issue with the Lucan phase - except that the last minute vetoing of Wilton Place by DCC as a terminus caused serious issues with the 25/a/b.

2) The lack of information on street was atrocious - again the Lucan phase was far better.

One would hope that these lessons have been learnt.

WBrazel wrote: »

Lxflyer this is a tough one to call with regards to the 17A.

Beaumont Hospital is a big focal point in the community. However it is placed in a very inaccessible place, like most things in Ireland.

The 17A has to go on a very long winded de-tour to serve Beaumont, that can add anywhere between 8 and 15mins. Even if it picks up 6-7 pax on a good trip it doesn't make up for the detour. And reality is it hasn't yet been approaching these levels on average.

The 104 linked most of these areas with Beaumont, and obviously with its culling, it was decided to keep a link. However, the 104 never did well, single digits. Which calls into question why keep Beaumont Hospital. Previously Northside Shopping Centre were the busiest stops on the route. Now in order to get west of this you go on a long winded detour. Of course this is reducing custom. I think it should revert with the 27B continuing along Coolock Lane in order to act as a feeder bus to the 17A.

markpb wrote: »

During the morning and evening peak periods, no-one has ever used the hospital stop while I was on it (before I gave up) but that's not the point I was making. Dublin Bus have complained for years that road infrastructure isn't good enough in Dublin but now they're pulling bus routes off more suitable roads (Oscar Traynor, Glasnevin Ave) and onto less suitable roads that have been changed to slow down traffic by installing speed ramps and where parking enforcement is nill so the buses are forced to crawl around going nowhere quickly.

If they wanted to save money they could cut costs by all the things we talk about here all the time (reducing dwell time by discounting prepaid tickets, using the middle door, making sure handover drivers are present, etc).

I think it is good to have this discussion - but I do think people need to stand back from this a bit (apart from just their own commute) and view it in both the terms of simplifying the network but also cutting out waste and reducing costs. The position of retaining the status quo is just not tenable in the current economic climate no matter how desireable that may be.

It's interesting in that some people will be giving out about buses being taken out of Tolka Estate for example, while others will be delighted. It really goes to show that you will never please everyone.

Regarding the 17a and Beaumont Hospital - there may well be decent enough numbers at other times - I don't know. But I would think that trying to link in the two big hospitals with local communities with a decent frequency service is a positive development. As far as the roads around the hospital are concerned - it's hardly DB's fault that the hospital was sited where it is and accessed via residential roads? That's down to bad planning, but should that stop a major hospital from having a decent local bus service that links much of North Dublin to it?

I don't disagree with anyone regarding Dublin Bus as an organisation - to be honest the entire operation needs an overhaul and not just the network. And I entirely agree that they are not communicating the network changes in an acceptable manner. The last missive is a recipe for confusion.

However, there are other things coming this year which will deliver improvements such as:

• The rollout of AVLC should deliver better control of services and cost reductions, and allow for proper schedules to be prepared with realistic running times.
• The rollout of RTPI will make travelling far more predictable for customers.
• The rollout (finally) of an integrated smartcard
• The NTA appear to be taking a far more customer oriented approach to proposed network changes that the Department of Transport ever did.

All LONG overdue but not necessarily within the control of DB.

LXFlyer

WBrazel wrote: »

I'd agree with Mark. The point of Network Review was to have core direct routes that used quicker more bus friendly routes. Wadelai Park first received a service in the late 40s when the 13 was extended there. Historically new estates would have had buses put into them. However it also had to do with the furthest estate along a particular road was used as a terminus. Buses need somewhere to turn.

So some estates got bus services, others didn't. Wadelai Park/St. Pappin's Road, is close in all regards to a number of routes, the 19A basically circles it. For the vast majority of other estates of similar size in Dublin this is what you get. A bus a few minutes walk away. In true Irish spirit, because they have it, they keep it, and the bus has to take a long and ill-advised (from a road perspective) meander.

Don't get me wrong there is a place for a community service. And such routes should exist, especially in the off peak period. Doing this would allow duties to be placed on core routes at peaks, but to do more community/estate services in the offpeak. The network would be quite similar to Belfast's.

The people of Wadelai are not to be messed with when it comes to their bus service. In 1980 the 13 was extended through their estate to Ballymun. To protest against this the residents of Wadelai blocked a bus from leaving their estate. They were concerned buses would be too full reaching them. A few years later the 11s were extended and started from the estate.

A very good synopsis - I don't think you are too far off the mark.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

I think it is good to have this discussion - but I do think people need to stand back from this a bit (apart from just their own commute) and view it in both the terms of simplifying the network but also cutting out waste and reducing costs.

I agree, DB are in the unenviable position of trying to keep everyone happy However, my point is that, regardless of my commute, the 17a is now longer, slower and has more trouble navigating bad parking and accessing bus stops. The altered 19 through Wadeli will have the same problems. There have been some improvements in Network Direct but these two are directly in contravention of their stated aims.

Regarding the 17a and Beaumont Hospital - there may well be decent enough numbers at other times - I don't know. But I would think that trying to link in the two big hospitals with local communities with a decent frequency service is a positive development.

I think, again, DB are trying to combine different functions of bus routes and making a mess of both of them. Combining the 92 (fast, frequent, rail-feeder bus) with 145 (long haul route) made a mess of both. Combing the 17a (feeder bus between arterial routes) with a local, residential route which meanders through housing estates and into hospitals is again missing the point. People who want to use the 17a to get between arterials will no longer use it because of the delay. I think this points to a fundamental misunderstanding by DB of their customers. I think it also shows they're trying to wodge squares into circles.

As far as the roads around the hospital are concerned - it's hardly DB's fault that the hospital was sited where it is and accessed via residential roads?

Incidentally, the Beaumont road entrance is on a main road with no on-street parking and some bus priority. The entrance from that road is straight and with no 90 degree bends that would slow the buses down. But DB decided that the 17a was closer and forced it through the Kilbarron road instead.

However, there are other things coming this year which will deliver improvements such as:

• The rollout of AVLC should deliver better control of services and cost reductions, and allow for proper schedules to be prepared with realistic running times.
• The rollout of RTPI will make travelling far more predictable for customers.
• The rollout (finally) of an integrated smartcard
• The NTA appear to be taking a far more customer oriented approach to proposed network changes that the Department of Transport ever did.

All LONG overdue but not necessarily within the control of DB.

+1 to all of that - it's hugely important - but it won't improve the bus service once you're on the bus. Trip times will be the same if not slower. Ultimately, a lot of people opt not to use the bus because it really doesn't offer competitive times against the car for most journeys. DB have constantly ignored this over the years.

I've been campaigning for years at politicians, local authorities, TDs and the QBN Office to help DB improve but they (DB) have shown, time and time again, that they are unable to reform or improve in any real way so I'm counting down the days until I move house onto a Luas line and never have to use DB again. I genuinely don't believe they have the heart to make serious changes.

Cool Mo D

I think it's really important to keep emailing Dublin Bus about problems, no matter if you don't think they're important. Send the same email to your local councillors too, and make sure whoever receives it at DB can see who it's CC'ed to. They will ignore small numbers of people, but if enough people give out, there is a chance.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

While there is frustration obviously here the reality is that the company cannot afford to keep the current network operating. It is as simple as that. People need to realise that there are going to have to be some cuts (some worse than others).

This process from what I can see is a combination of getting at least one direct route per corridor at a high frequency and then combining other routes which will be at a lower frequency, and lower than that currently offered.

No one likes any form of cut backs, but face it folks this country is virtually bankrupt and we just cannot afford to keep things as they are.

All very true Lxflyer,this next phase of ND is making it far clearer just how much of a cost-cutting exercise the programme really is.

200 buses and 350 drivers less at the end of this will mean real service reductions-Full Stop.

No matter how many RTPI,AVLS or Integrated Tickets you have,if there`s no bus to catch they are as useless as a tinfoil hat in an electric storm.

The cuts to the 11 route are all about removing 5 buses from the Peak Requirement.

That is the sole guiding principle behind the subsequent proposals.

However it also appears that in the case of the 11 nobody in the Network Direct team bothered to investigate any alternatives to the surgery now proposed.

Just to repeat a drivers perspective on the route,Wadelai Park represents an ideal staging terminus for a route to act as a feeder into the Ballymun and Swords Road trunk corridors.

The 4`s ,13`s and 19`s arriving at DCU and travelling to An Lar will most likely be well loaded if not full and this is exactly where the 11 fits into the Trunk Route equation.

The mistake many are making here is to see the 11 as some kind of Wadelai Park residents preserve,it`s not.
Whilst the 11 does represent a useful and reliable means of public transport for many local residents,the reality is that it draws it`s major numbers from the DCU/Home Farm Road/Drumcondra/Leeson St/Ranelagh/Clonskeagh alignment.

The remainder of the route through Goatstown to Kilmacud is substantially less well patronized.

Yet,the company`s brighest and best "Planners" decide to dispense with the productive corridor and retain 8 buses operating essentially alongside the Luas Green Line...This plan must be really cunning....a really jesuitical exercise as yet unappreciated by the sweating hordes who clamour to travel between Sandyford`s Industrial and Resedential Desert and the flourishing public transport hub that is Docklands Station.

The 11 route`s core alignment between Clonskeagh and Ballymun remains in my view a gold-standard routing for Public Transport,it ticks so many boxes about what a cross-city urban Bus Route should be.....There is nothing remotely "replacement" about the alternatives been spoken of by Dublin Bus.

The current 11 route has so much scope for improvement,but that scope is being cast aside with some gusto by a relatively small coterie of senior management personnell,whose efforts to date have not exactly proven them to be overflowing with new,innovative or customer friendly initiatives.....

But as so many posts here and elsewhere are revealing,the net effect of the Network Direct "Team"s efforts appears to be the alienation of significant numbers of existing customers and the loss of good solid season ticket or pre-paid ticket business......yet the senior management of DB appear blissfully unconcerned at this prospect ?

Markpb: I've been campaigning for years at politicians, local authorities, TDs and the QBN Office to help DB improve but they (DB) have shown, time and time again, that they are unable to reform or improve in any real way so I'm counting down the days until I move house onto a Luas line and never have to use DB again. I genuinely don't believe they have the heart to make serious changes.

Devilman40K: Less frequent,less reliable services will not increase passenger numbers in any way and having experienced ND Phase 1 myself ,and gone back to using a car as a result of it, I think its safe to say that these "improvements" could sound a death knell for Dublin Bus

EricPraline:In the meantime many of us will just resort to using the car, leading to a further deterioration in DB's finances.

If DB management choose to ignore sentiment such as the above small selection then,either they are the ballsiest,gung-ho,can-do group we have ever had...or,they are something totally different....:o

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

I agree, DB are in the unenviable position of trying to keep everyone happy However, my point is that, regardless of my commute, the 17a is now longer, slower and has more trouble navigating bad parking and accessing bus stops. The altered 19 through Wadeli will have the same problems. There have been some improvements in Network Direct but these two are directly in contravention of their stated aims.

I think, again, DB are trying to combine different functions of bus routes and making a mess of both of them. Combining the 92 (fast, frequent, rail-feeder bus) with 145 (long haul route) made a mess of both. Combing the 17a (feeder bus between arterial routes) with a local, residential route which meanders through housing estates and into hospitals is again missing the point. People who want to use the 17a to get between arterials will no longer use it because of the delay. I think this points to a fundamental misunderstanding by DB of their customers. I think it also shows they're trying to wodge squares into circles.

Incidentally, the Beaumont road entrance is on a main road with no on-street parking and some bus priority. The entrance from that road is straight and with no 90 degree bends that would slow the buses down. But DB decided that the 17a was closer and forced it through the Kilbarron road instead.

+1 to all of that - it's hugely important - but it won't improve the bus service once you're on the bus. Trip times will be the same if not slower. Ultimately, a lot of people opt not to use the bus because it really doesn't offer competitive times against the car for most journeys. DB have constantly ignored this over the years.

I've been campaigning for years at politicians, local authorities, TDs and the QBN Office to help DB improve but they (DB) have shown, time and time again, that they are unable to reform or improve in any real way so I'm counting down the days until I move house onto a Luas line and never have to use DB again. I genuinely don't believe they have the heart to make serious changes.

Personally I think DB made a fairly big mistake in explaining this project. Many people seem to think that every route would be faster and more direct. That was not what Deloitte suggested - what it said was to make the core route on each corridor more direct - there was always going to be a need for other routes that would take a slower route, but that the number of routes needed to be rationalised.

We've seen the more direct routes in phase 1 with the 46a no longer serving Monkstown Farm or Stillorgan Village, the 39a by-passing Blanchardstown, and the 25a/25b by-passing Chapelizod.

Similarly the 13, 128, and 140 in phase 2 would fulfill the "direct" criteria.

Most of the rest of the project is about eliminating duplication of routes, merging routes in certain areas, co-ordinating schedules (all in the Deloitte report) and as I said above (frankly) cutting costs which has to happen. Some of those changes inevitably mean that some people may have a longer journey - but others may not. Unlike you Mark, I'm lucky as my journey is now 10 minutes faster.

DB are correct in marketing the more direct high frequency routes, but there is no point dressing up the other changes as such. Rather explaining that the timetable will deliver more reliable headways and standard interval departures might be better (which were unfortunately not delivered at first in phase 1 due to the poor scheduling behind the timetables).

The real challenge is to make sure that the capacity post-changes is sufficient and that the rosters are realistic so that the timetables are delivered as advertised.

Direct routes are well and good, but they generally only are needed on core-radial routes. Orbital routes (due to different individual travel patterns) tend to need to serve local amenities - be they industrial areas, hospitals, and shopping centres to be in any way economically viable.

Bazzer2

lxflyer wrote: »

Many people seem to think that every route would be faster and more direct. That was not what Deloitte suggested - what it said was to make the core route on each corridor more direct

That's the total opposite of what's planned for the Ballyfermot corridor. The direct 78 is being dumped in favour of the longer and slower 78A, which is due to be merged with the 40. The direct 79A is being dumped in favour of merging the 79 with the 27B and sending them all back into Inchicore Road/Sarsfield Road to serve one or two stops in each direction.

WBrazel

The 11 as it stands relies very heavily on DCU, and in reality DCU being in term. Reality is it stops short of a much bigger and more reliable draw of passengers, e.g. Ballymun. Though I would agree with Alek that buses could be full reaching DCU, I think a higher frequency 4 was the alternative to the 11 that would have been much more advantageous to passengers. A 10min service, 6 days a week, would have provided an adequate service. I much prefer higher frequency routes that are interlaced. I can't count how many times I have waited at DCU, only for a 19A, 13A, and finally about 1min after an 11. Its a waste of resources to have routes serving the same major locations without any interlacing in the departure times.

Though I bow to your superior knowledge of the 11 Alek, though also noting your vested interest, I personally have never travelled daytime on the 11 with more than just over double digits on board. In fact if heading to Drumcondra I would always get an 11 because it is generally much more underloaded than any of the other routes in that direction.

I think Network Direct can work. However I don't understand why Network Direct seem to be looking at cuts on a route by route basis. Cutting the 4, the 19A, and the 11 from DCU is mindless, when without one of these routes the loadings on the other two would improve. What's left behind will be struggling to cope.

I would have rathered the cancelling of the 11 and 3 northside in favour of a higher frequency 16 service through Drumcondra and a higher frequency 4 service. But what we end up with is cancelling of the route, and further reductions in the frequencies of whats left behind.

AlekSmart

WBrazel wrote: »

The 11 as it stands relies very heavily on DCU, and in reality DCU being in term. Reality is it stops short of a much bigger and more reliable draw of passengers,

Though I bow to your superior (:eek:) knowledge of the 11 Alek, though also noting your vested interest, I personally have never travelled daytime on the 11 with more than just over double digits on board. In fact if heading to Drumcondra I would always get an 11 because it is generally much more underloaded than any of the other routes in that direction.

I think Network Direct can work. However I don't understand why Network Direct seem to be looking at cuts on a route by route basis. Cutting the 4, the 19A, and the 11 from DCU is mindless, when without one of these routes the loadings on the other two would improve. What's left behind will be struggling to cope.

I would have rathered the cancelling of the 11 and 3 northside in favour of a higher frequency 16 service through Drumcondra and a higher frequency 4 service. But what we end up with is cancelling of the route, and further reductions in the frequencies of whats left behind.

I`m not claiming any "Superiority" WB ...far from it,but certainly an interest,whether vested or not.

There is little doubt that DCU as a location plays a significant role in the 11`s life,however not quite as term based as one might think.

In common with many such Institutions,DCU now operates a comprehensive out-of-term programme of Language and recreational use of its residences and associated facilites including The Helix theatre.

A good summer-programme of resedential letting in DCU often provides unusually high loadings at the most unpredictable of times...ie Full Seated loads of German/French/Italian language students at 2230 sometimes headed back other times heading into town for the "Craic"...(or what remains of it)

Added to this is the substantial off-term useage provided by the Institute of Education on Leeson St which operates at night and weekends also.

Other assorted odds n sods serviced by the 11 are The Eye & Ear hospital,The Nigerian and Indian Embassies and Ranelagh itself...which from a direct Nortside Link perspective carry somewhat more than one might initially suspect.

Your observations re the 11 Northbound are accurate to a point,as the major disembarkation points are located along Drumcondra Road with St Patricks College and The Skylon (Home Farm Road) being the final two "Big Number" stops.

However,that only serves to underline justb how on-the-nail the original 11 Tram/Bus routing actually was in offering a frequent reliable Public Transport Link between Clonskeagh and Drumcondra.

Today,I remain convinced that a rejuvenated high frequency 11 operating between Bird Avenue/UCD and Wadelai Park covers all the bases required of a functional,sustainable Bus Route.....I remain equally convinced that the proposed Sandyford-Docklands service is the result of a rather wild Google-Maps based flight of fancy.

The changes to the 11 appear driven totally by a requirement to rid itself of 5 buses by any means possible,rather than any desire to improve or support new business,which I believe to be a major error of judgement !

LXFlyer

Bazzer2 wrote: »

That's the total opposite of what's planned for the Ballyfermot corridor. The direct 78 is being dumped in favour of the longer and slower 78A, which is due to be merged with the 40. The direct 79A is being dumped in favour of merging the 79 with the 27B and sending them all back into Inchicore Road/Sarsfield Road to serve one or two stops in each direction.

Ballyfermot is a tough one. The scope for improving the 78a routing is very limited. There is a large traffic flow between Ballyfermot and Thomas Street so I don't think re-routing the 78a as the 78 route down the quays would work. What hopefully will be done is to get a consistent frequency throughout the day rather than the disjointed schedule that exists at present.

However, I would agree that routing the 79 via the current 79a route the Con Colbert Road would be a definite improvement. Is there a specific need (such as schools) for the 79 along the Inchicore Road/Sarsfield Road?

Perhaps it will be routed along Con Colbert Road based on the consultation reponses.

Remember we have yet to see the final routings from all of the current consultations.

CIE

lxflyer wrote: »

While there is frustration obviously here the reality is that the company cannot afford to keep the current network operating. It is as simple as that. People need to realise that there are going to have to be some cuts (some worse than others).

This process from what I can see is a combination of getting at least one direct route per corridor at a high frequency and then combining other routes which will be at a lower frequency, and lower than that currently offered.

No one likes any form of cut backs, but face it folks this country is virtually bankrupt and we just cannot afford to keep things as they are

Gotta love government apologeticism. It was government intransigence that crushed any competition by private bus companies, and now the same government intransigence is destroying bus route flexibility and (by making routes longer) reliability. What should be feared by, instead of outright cancelling service to many areas, allowing private companies to assume the operations and de-regulating to allow them to make an out-of-farebox go at it?

dfx-

lxflyer wrote: »

However, there are other things coming this year which will deliver improvements such as:

• The rollout of AVLC should deliver better control of services and cost reductions, and allow for proper schedules to be prepared with realistic running times.

I've seen a fair few of these and have yet to see a reliable screen during its testing. Particularly the one on Emmet Rd. across from Richmond Park. That seems to be crazy. Displaying the next 51B/C as a 51B 6 minutes away followed by a 78A then another 51B when in fact it is a 51C and is at the stop is the craziest one so far I think.

LXFlyer

Perhaps that's why it's described as being "under test" so that these sort of problems can be ironed out?

I've just passed the three displays in Rathmines and they seem to be working fine.

seos

dfx- wrote: »

I've seen a fair few of these and have yet to see a reliable screen during its testing. Particularly the one on Emmet Rd. across from Richmond Park. That seems to be crazy. Displaying the next 51B/C as a 51B 6 minutes away followed by a 78A then another 51B when in fact it is a 51C and is at the stop is the craziest one so far I think.

Are you sure the 51C hadn't just disappeared from the stop because I think they're meant to disappear when the bus is there?

(that sounds a bit sarcastic but it's not meant to be, I mean I think they're meant to disappear when the bus is at the stop rather than the alternative of disappearing when the bus has just left the stop)

dfx-

Nah, 51B and C alternate, so it read like this:

51B Grange Castle 6 mins
78A Liffey Valley 12 mins
51B Grange Castle 15 minutes

So if the 51C had disappeared which I do not think so as the bus was approaching, there was no extra line on top...still the next two 51s are not both 51Bs. It would also make sense that the real 51B (the next 51) is indeed 15 minutes away, rather than 6 as 15 minutes is their frequency

I also noticed this on the Drimnagh Rd inbound reading as my 56 approached. It read:

56 Dolphins Barn Due
77A Ringsend Road 4 mins
50 Ringsend Road 6 mins
151 East Rd/Docklands 28 mins
77 Ringsend Rd 31 mins.

So the 56 leaves, removes from the screen...next bus along 1 minute later is AV104 on the 50, the 50 stays on the screen. Then a mystical 151 appears from nowhere and then the 77A when due. It was able to time both the 56 and 77A correct, so it wasn't stuck or something.

seos

dfx- wrote: »

Nah, 51B and C alternate, so it read like this:

51B Grange Castle 6 mins
78A Liffey Valley 12 mins
51B Grange Castle 15 minutes

So if the 51C had disappeared which I do not think so as the bus was approaching, there was no extra line on top...still the next two 51s are not both 51Bs. It would also make sense that the real 51B (the next 51) is indeed 15 minutes away, rather than 6 as 15 minutes is their frequency

I also noticed this on the Drimnagh Rd inbound reading as my 56 approached. It read:

56 Dolphins Barn Due
77A Ringsend Road 4 mins
50 Ringsend Road 6 mins
151 East Rd/Docklands 28 mins
77 Ringsend Rd 31 mins.

So the 56 leaves, removes from the screen...next bus along 1 minute later is AV104 on the 50, the 50 stays on the screen. Then a mystical 151 appears from nowhere and then the 77A when due. It was able to time both the 56 and 77A correct, so it wasn't stuck or something.

Those do sound like major errors alright. They better fix those before it finished testing!

dazberry

dfx- wrote: »

I've seen a fair few of these and have yet to see a reliable screen during its testing. Particularly the one on Emmet Rd. across from Richmond Park. That seems to be crazy. Displaying the next 51B/C as a 51B 6 minutes away followed by a 78A then another 51B when in fact it is a 51C and is at the stop is the craziest one so far I think.

I've passed it a few times and it's been wrong each time, including this evening. Using my ipod+mifi I've been watching the rtpi.ie website in text mode - going the other way and using the Naas Rd and the Emmet Rd (other side inbound) stops as reference - over the last week and it seems to be working pretty well when online/active.

This morning I left the house when the 51b was coming due on the Nass Road and got it about 5ish minutes later. It went due on the Emmet Rd stop before we arrived, and a 78A on Grattan Cresent went from 1m to due as we passed it at the lights in Inchicore village.

D.

The_Wrecker

Route 84.

Drivers advised by unions thats they dont need to bother about Stillorgan or Cherrywood in either direction if under pressure.

Welcome to the farce.

Cookie_Monster

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Route 84.

Drivers advised by unions thats they dont need to bother about Stillorgan or Cherrywood in either direction if under pressure.

Welcome to the farce.

how do they plan on letting waiting customers know they are "under pressure"?
an extra hours wait would leave me under a lot of pressure to get where I'm going in time :rolleyes:

ardmacha

an extra hours wait would leave me under a lot of pressure to get where I'm going in time

You are a citizen, your being under pressure is not a matter of concern to public transport.

Cookie_Monster

ardmacha wrote: »

You are a citizen, your being under pressure is not a matter of concern to public transport.

oh, believe me I know and that's why I cycle or drive everywhere and avoid PT like the plague these days...

Jaysoose

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Route 84.

Drivers advised by unions thats they dont need to bother about Stillorgan or Cherrywood in either direction if under pressure.

Welcome to the farce.

Why would the unions be telling the drivers were and were not to go? whats it got to do with them?

Farce isnt the word...there has to be a more extreme word to describe the monumental clusterfvck that dublinbus is fast becoming.

thomasj

Waiting on the 17a at blanchardstown centre, the 18:00 didn't show.

Thankfully it looks like the 18:20 is ready to go

Sizable numbers as well!

CIE

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how do they plan on letting waiting customers know they are "under pressure"?
an extra hours wait would leave me under a lot of pressure to get where I'm going in time :rolleyes:

They just say they're under pressure because they want to put passengers on ice, ice, baby...

AlekSmart

Just to update the Glasnevin/Drumcondra ND changes a wee bit.

A colleague had a conversation with a mid ranking manager yesterday and enquired as to the status of the Route 11 cuts....:mad:

Reportedly,the response ran along the lines of......

"Lookit,the thing is agreed right !....they can protest all they like but it`s going ahead as planned"

I`m assuming the "they" referred to the customers of Glasnevin/Drumcondra who are laying seige to DB Head Office seeking to be rid of this troublesome route....:rolleyes:

The biggest problem for Dublin Bus in Phase 2 of Network Direct,is the existance of fora such as Boards.ie which alone has c 2,400 posts on Phase 1`s mishandling and largely negative outcome for customers.

This is queering the pitch a bit for the Network Direct "Team"s endavours to market base metal as gold,as those who have been stung are pretty damn keen to warn those who are about to be stung.

I also understand that at least one Public Representative has established contact with DCU`s Students Union on the issue, something,it appears Dublin Bus felt no great need to do...:rolleyes:

At this juncture the the general feeling internally mirrors the Middle Manager`s...The die is cast...It`s little more than a crock of odeure,but if it achieves the cost-savings required then it will guarantee the exalted members of the Network Direct "Team" a fastrack on the promotion ladder..It`s no longer about providing a Public Transport Service,or any other service for that matter...It`s now just a numbers game.

jahalpin

Does anyone know what is happening with the 83 in the latest Network Direct changes?

Is it being cutback to Charlestown Centre? If so, are any buses going to serve Dublin Airport Logistics Park?