Dublin Bus Network Review

dazberry

stovelid wrote: »

68 will apparently be going via SCR and Camden Street to the City Centre

This is to appease the Save the 19 bus crowd who want some form of service retained down the SCR from/via Bulfin Road. Unfortunately it's neither of either, the 68 will be too low frequency for people to use it as a 19, and will be too slow going via the SCR at rush hour to have people using it unless they absolutely have to. I see it going the way of the 51.

D.

KD345

I don't really understand this "save the 19" campaign. Under these new plans, the 122 will run into Rialto, with a slightly greater frequency than what is there at present with the 19. Bulfin is planned to be served by the 123.

There will be only one stop no longer served, and that is at the Luas bridge in Rialto. Residents in this area are only a few minutes walk from the 122, 123, and the new proposed 13 and 40.

If they really wanted to maintain the current 19 service then a suggestion would be for the 122 and 123 to swap routes in Drimnagh, with the 122 running Galtymore Road, Suir Road/Bulfin, SCR, Rialto, Dolphins Barn etc. and for the 123 to run Mourne Road, Keeper Road, Herberton Road and on into James Hospital.

Diverting the 68 through Camden Street really makes no sense.

CIE

KD345 wrote: »

I don't really understand this "save the 19" campaign. Under these new plans, the 122 will run into Rialto, with a slightly greater frequency than what is there at present with the 19. Bulfin is planned to be served by the 123

That's no help to people that want to perhaps ride to Kelly's Corner from Bulfin Road. Such a service has been available for decades, whether it was the 19, 20 or 20B. Maybe they find riding via South Circular Road is more reliable than along any other route? Maybe connections to Terenure and Rathmines might be more convenient than, say, riding the 17?

KD345 wrote: »

Diverting the 68 through Camden Street really makes no sense.

It doesn't make me very pleased either, but given the choice between ending at Red Cow and having a slightly different route that actually serves the city, one can continue to debate which is the lesser of two evils there.

SparkyTech

Dundrum meeting for same grassroots group happening this evening. Their advertisement is a little dubious, no mention of the 46n replacement Nitelink service or an increased 14/16 frequency.

Save Our Bus Campaign Public Meeting. Affected Routes: 48a, 14a, 14, 75, 11a, 11b

As part of it s cost cutting plan Dublin Bus have plans to introduce radical cuts to our bus services. Every route in the city will be affected to some degree, with 10 new super routes being introduced and some existing routes scrapped and others amalgamated into other routes which will overall have less frequent service.
Public Meeting Against Bus Cuts

When: Sunday 5th June at 8pm

Where: St. John's GAA Club Grange Road Ballinteer
Directions: The GAA Club is about 150 yards up the road past the Lidl on the Grange Road which runs alongside Marley Park.

Speaker: Eugene McDonagh (former Dublin Bus driver/activists against cuts)
YOUR SUPPORT IS NEEDED TO HELP REVERSE THESE CUTS

If these routes are NOT in your area, please key a lookout for changes affecting your. There are cancellation and cuts of bus routes taking place all over Dublin. Other areas have already had campaign started and meetings held. Find out more before it is too late.

As part of it s cost cutting plan Dublin Bus have plans to introduce radical cuts to our bus services. Every route in the city will be affected to some degree, with 10 new super routes being introduced and some existing routes scrapped and others amalgamated into other routes which will overall have less frequent service.

BUS CUTS PLANNED OR ALREADY IN PLACE IN Dundrum/Goatstown/Windy Arbour/Churchtow/Ballinteer Area

"Improved" routes

The 14 and 14a routes are to be amalgamated with the 20B route and operated as the 14.
The 11a and 11b will be amalgamated and operate as 11.
The 44 route has been redesigned
The 75 will be redesigned and replaced in part by the 175 route. The 75 itself will continue to operate from Tallaght to Dun Laoghaire but will be realigned away from the Ballinteer area.
Other Citywide "Improvements"

Dublin Bus are withdrawing bus services from some of the big estates in Dublin. This clearly makes it more attractive for sell off to private companies.
Scrapped Services

The 48a will no longer operate

Dublin Bus has already scrapped the 44N and 48N note link with reduced service on the 15N

These severe cuts are because of the Fine Gael / Labour programme for government essentially continues Fianna Fail's plans to sell of state assets and slash public services to pay-off the gambling debts of bankers, speculators and bond holders under the EU-IMF deal. When you gamble you lose. When the rich gamble you pay one way or another.

Dublin Bus is on the list for sell off. Already it has:

210 buses have already been scrapped.
420 Redundant Bus Drivers. (200 Dublin Bus drivers + 220 Bus Eireann drivers gone from the CIE group)

1 Bus Scrapped = 90 Cars back on the road.

It could be you... If we don't take a stand many people will find themselves waiting longer for buses or stranded in their estates because their service has been cut completely. Local communities need to take action to defend public transport which caters for people's needs.

This government cannot be allowed to sell of our public transport to compenstate greedy bankers and speculators.

Cookie_Monster

1 Bus Scrapped = 90 Cars back on the road.

some great logic there, I wonder how they worked that out :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

SparkyTech wrote: »

Dundrum meeting for same grassroots group happening this evening. Their advertisement is a little dubious, no mention of the 46n replacement Nitelink service or an increased 14/16 frequency.

Oh dear.

There can be little doubt but that the Network Direct programme has been one of the best examples of not to implement a major restructuring of a Public Service.

However we have now a very serious situation whereby if Dublin Bus cannot make the Network Direct plan function in a financial sense then the entire network is threatened with run-down and eventual closure.

In it's place a new fragmented multi-operator scenario will take root,with that in itself taking perhaps a decade to reach where we are now in terms of coverage.

I have noted the remarkable tempering of Leo Varadakar's attitude since he assumed Ministerial Office.

In the weeks leading up to the General Election it was largely seen as a given that a FG victory meant an immediate end to Dublin Bus.

My belief is that once in Office and with full access to the dei-facto situation,Mr Varadakar is now fully aware of the relative bargain the State is getting from Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann in terms of Full Service Provision.

The Press Release quoted by SparkyTech,whilst valid of itself,also alludes to a significant input from a certain element who have significant issues with Dublin Bus management per se.

There is,AFAIAW,some legal action or threats of same outstanding so one would have to adopt a somewhat more guarded attitude to the group's reasons for mounting this campaign at this time.

The reality is a City and Country deeply mired in a severe recession,with the Public Transport sector caught,temporarily, in the lag-period between the start of recession and the deepening of it.

People are continuing to keep their "little car" on the road in the hope of a turn-around,but that's not gonna happen,and within the next 12 months we are going to witness a lot of people being FORCED to apply stark choices to their lifestyles....for many,those choices will entail a return to public transport...IF that Public Transport is still there !

The major issue I have now is the need to move this ND project on rapidly and get the NETWORK fully functional in anticipation of the next phase of this depression.

Our current levels of widespread Private car useage cannot be sustained given the lack of economic activity to support it.

However neither can we sustain half-hearted Bus Route fiddling which gives 30 minute frequencies along meandering almost pointless routes as evidenced by the 63 for example whilst potentially productive routes such as the 14 see their allocations reduced.

There is an old-adage in Public Transport terms that "Frequency Sells" and it's true,however we in Dublin Bus have been reluctant to get behind this as a major plank of our operations,which I believe to be a mistake.

Similarly the inability to run with the Express Service concept as a very lucrative and effective method of attracting Car bound business,even for a portion of a weekly commute,is something Dublin Bus needs to get to grips with pronto....

Anyway,we'll watch tonights Dundrum developments with interest.....won't we ?????

AlekSmart

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

some great logic there, I wonder how they worked that out :rolleyes:

Actually Cookie,its theoretically possible if one combines the large capacity VT's etc....and it's more than possible if we use the Bus Capacity over it's working day.

However,in reality,of course that theoretical number will never be achived,but a figure of 30 cars per Bus per day should be quite readily achievable if some effort was put into it.

There are so many ways in which Government Policy could be directed towards encouraging some element of voluntary occasional Public Transport use...but I'd suggest it should be carrot based rather than stick as it appears to be becoming !!!

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

Actually Cookie,its theoretically possible if one combines the large capacity VT's etc....and it's more than possible if we use the Bus Capacity over it's working day.

However,in reality,of course that theoretical number will never be achived,but a figure of 30 cars per Bus per day should be quite readily achievable if some effort was put into it.

There are so many ways in which Government Policy could be directed towards encouraging some element of voluntary occasional Public Transport use...but I'd suggest it should be carrot based rather than stick as it appears to be becoming !!!

while that's perfectly true the above figure simply smacks of how many people can a bus carry, 87-90 therefore must equal 90 more cars on the road.

A bit of though into it would lend credibility to the argument, rather than just throwing out a number.

Dub13

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

while that's perfectly true the above figure simply smacks of how many people can a bus carry, 87-90 therefore must equal 90 more cars on the road.

A bit of though into it would lend credibility to the argument, rather than just throwing out a number.

But a bus does not just do one trip a day.,I am sure on average they are out on the road for 12/14 hours and carry 1,000s of people.

AlekSmart

Dub13 wrote: »

But a bus does not just do one trip a day.,I am sure on average they are out on the road for 12/14 hours and carry 1,000s of people.

Yep Dub13,the thing in a nutshell...let's face it all marketing is about best-case scenario......just look at all the ultra-low air fares,supermarket prices,bail-out interest rates et al (:rolleyes:) ......Dublin Bus in this case are just using industry standard methodology to get a point across.

Cookie_Monster

Dub13 wrote: »

But a bus does not just do one trip a day.,I am sure on average they are out on the road for 12/14 hours and carry 1,000s of people.

that's part of my point

antoinolachtnai

AlekSmart wrote: »

However we have now a very serious situation whereby if Dublin Bus cannot make the Network Direct plan function in a financial sense then the entire network is threatened with run-down and eventual closure.

I can't really see how that could happen or how you could infer that it could happen.

My belief is that once in Office and with full access to the dei-facto situation,Mr Varadakar is now fully aware of the relative bargain the State is getting from Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann in terms of Full Service Provision.

DB and BE have very expensive operations and poor operating standards. Perhaps there is some veiled meaning to 'relative bargain'.

People are continuing to keep their "little car" on the road in the hope of a turn-around,but that's not gonna happen,and within the next 12 months we are going to witness a lot of people being FORCED to apply stark choices to their lifestyles....for many,those choices will entail a return to public transport...IF that Public Transport is still there !

This is the Joe Meagher marketing strategy. If we could somehow make it so people didn't have cars, then they would be forced to use the bus.

Cookie_Monster

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

This is the Joe Meagher marketing strategy. If we could somehow make it so people didn't have cars, then they would be forced to use the bus.

all they have to do now is figure out how to get rid of the private operators stealing their other customers :P:P

KD345

AlekSmart wrote: »

However neither can we sustain half-hearted Bus Route fiddling which gives 30 minute frequencies along meandering almost pointless routes as evidenced by the 63 for example whilst potentially productive routes such as the 14 see their allocations reduced.

I don't agree with your view of the 63/14. The 63 has to be one of the more positive changes with Network Direct. Any time I've travelled on this route the loadings have been good, even at weekends. I have a friend who lives in Cornelscourt who is delighted at having a direct link to Dun Laoghaire. As for meandering, surely it's better to have the 63 travel through Monkstown Farm every 30 minutes than disrupt the 46a every 8 mins.

From my observation of the 14, it would be that there are too many buses allocated to it. The running time on this route is possibly the most generous on the entire Dublin Bus network. It could easily have it's timetable redesigned to keep a similar frequency while using less buses. Hopefully the 20b merger will see to that.

lucernarian

KD345 wrote: »

From my observation of the 14, it would be that there are too many buses allocated to it. The running time on this route is possibly the most generous on the entire Dublin Bus network. It could easily have it's timetable redesigned to keep a similar frequency while using less buses. Hopefully the 20b merger will see to that.

Such a long route with the unpredictable nature of traffic through the likes of the Upper Rathmines Road won't help its reliability much. Unless they offer fixed departure times midway on the route e.g. somewhere in the city centre?

AlekSmart

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I can't really see how that could happen or how you could infer that it could happen.

DB and BE have very expensive operations and poor operating standards. Perhaps there is some veiled meaning to 'relative bargain'.

This is the Joe Meagher marketing strategy. If we could somehow make it so people didn't have cars, then they would be forced to use the bus.

It's my belief that if the Network Direct process fails to deliver the desired savings then the only way out for the company is to drastically reduce service levels and or associated costs.

There may well be several veiled meanings associated with the term "Relative Bargain" but one possible area would be the relative lack of monitoring of the DSFA Free Travel Scheme and the renumeration for services on a timely basis...suits both parties really I suppose ?

As for the Joe Meagher strategy,well the gentleman is now departed but this "strategy" may well be only beginning to be felt,although I believe that strategies in general are not really something Dublin bus has had much opportunity to get involved in.....All politics being Local...

Judging from the amount of scene setting being done by this Phil Hogan geezer today,we can safely assume that he has taken Antoin's "Joe Meagher Strategy" well on board.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/onein10-drivers-refusing-to-pay-for-motor-tax-2667077.html

It's embarrassing to read the plámas being churned out to the media on this,instead of the Department merely announcing that it intends to stiff as many motorists as it possibly can by any means possible...

The end result,however,will be the same....more motorists being FORCED (Financially) to reduce their car usage...

LXFlyer

AlekSmart wrote: »

However neither can we sustain half-hearted Bus Route fiddling which gives 30 minute frequencies along meandering almost pointless routes as evidenced by the 63 for example whilst potentially productive routes such as the 14 see their allocations reduced.

The planned frequency on the 14 is 15 minutes peak and 20 minutes off-peak. That is the same as the existing combined 14/14a schedule and better in the evening peak and off-peak.

What is being cut is the 48a - which aside from two morning peak departures which might have about 30 people on them usually carries no more than 10-12 (including outbound in the evening peak). I've often had the top deck to myself or share it with one or two people in the evening peak outbound. That frankly is not sustainable.

KD345 wrote: »

I don't agree with your view of the 63/14. The 63 has to be one of the more positive changes with Network Direct. Any time I've travelled on this route the loadings have been good, even at weekends. I have a friend who lives in Cornelscourt who is delighted at having a direct link to Dun Laoghaire. As for meandering, surely it's better to have the 63 travel through Monkstown Farm every 30 minutes than disrupt the 46a every 8 mins.

From my observation of the 14, it would be that there are too many buses allocated to it. The running time on this route is possibly the most generous on the entire Dublin Bus network. It could easily have it's timetable redesigned to keep a similar frequency while using less buses. Hopefully the 20b merger will see to that.

Spot on KD345 - you could probably cut 15 minutes off every journey (peak and off-peak) on the 14 / 14a and still have reasonable time to spare. That would be 30 minutes off a return journey. Don't even get me started on the 48a running time, which is generous in the extreme.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Such a long route with the unpredictable nature of traffic through the likes of the Upper Rathmines Road won't help its reliability much. Unless they offer fixed departure times midway on the route e.g. somewhere in the city centre?

I would not be that concerned - other cross city routes work reasonable well - the 16 for example is a far longer route and still shows up in O'Connell Street roughly 25 minutes after leaving Santry off-peak and 30-35 minutes in peak. The 20b is a fairly reliable route as it is, and the merger should not create too many difficulties.

RTPI will be a big help in that regard.

lucernarian

The placements of the RTPI displays are sometimes bizarre and illogical and not everyone has a smartphone and data subcription. E.g. there is only one display I've seen on O'Connell st and for a very quiet bus stop too. And some bus stops which are near the end of routes and have little or no pickup custom have an RTPI display?! Even on routes that have already had Network Direct changes.

In my opinion, the 16 is a rather poor route that has very irregular timings with oftentimes a 15 minute wait being rewarded with both a 16 and 16a arriving, and often stuffed to the gills with people especially from Aungier St. to Drumcondra. For travelling to Drumcondra from the city centre, the 13 is far more consistent in its timings and of course that's the route which starts in the city centre...

For the route of the 14a/14 currently, only a small proportion of the stops have RTPI. And some of the busiest boarding stops don't have one.

I agree with some of the thoughts about the 48a, some of the passenger numbers on that bus are ridiculous at times. I got it 3 months ago from Dundrum and I was the only passenger until Milltown!

eejoynt

One thing which would improve running times on the 16A is signage on the northbound stops from camden street to parnell square saying

the 16A goes to the airport
the fare from this stop is xx
the driver will accept coins only

find out from failte ireland what are the main two foreign languages spoken by tourists and put it up in these languages as well

tangowhiskey

Swords Road / Templeogue / Terenure / Rathmines changes up:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-2/Swords--Santry--Rathfarnham--Terenure/

Changes include:

Route 41 and 41c will bypass Dublin Airport at all times providing a more direct and faster commute to the city centre
Route 41a will provide an improved local service from Swords Manor to Dublin Airport serving Applewood and Glen Ellen
Route 41x will remain with some timetable adjustments (not shown on map)
Route 41b will continue to offer connections from Rolestown to the city centre
Route 102 will operate from Dublin Airport via Boroimhe to Swords Village and Malahide and Sutton Rail Stations
Route 3/a will operate alternative journeys from Parnell Square to Larkhill and Shanard Road via Dorset Street and Drumcondra

Map/Diagram:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/7351/Swords%20map.pdf

qerty

Major boost to the 16 and 3's frequency, 8 minutes peak and 10 minutes off peak for the 16 and the 3/a is getting an all day 10 minute frequency (which means every 20 minutes individually if it alternates between ever second bus) Major improvement here and I'm pretty pleased with these proposals actually


Looking at the the estimated times, they have the 15 down as 15 peak, 30 minute off peak but state it will be every 10 minutes at the top of the page. I'm pretty sure they mean the 15b.

Also, this is probably irrelevant but its interesting that they released the "revised" Malahide road proposals only to rename the 128 after their release to the 15. They seem to be making it up as they go along That's a bit worrying.

The 140 is no longer operating to Tallaght, but terminating in Rathmines. 54a will remain in service??????

LXFlyer

Summary of changes affecting Rathfarnham and Ballinteer:

Route 16 will be a high frequency service operating at least every 10 minutes during peak times from Ballinteer (Kingston) to Dublin Airport. This will significantly improve the reliability of the service and help maintain even intervals between the service at all stages on its route. Route 16a will be replaced on the Southside by route 61 (see below for details) and on the Northside by Route 3 and Route 16. Route 16 will now serve Dublin Airport.

Route 61 will operate from Whitechurch to the city centre via Grange Road, Nutgrove Avenue, Churchtown Road Lower, Rathmines and St. Stephen’s Green.

Route 140, operating a high frequency service with a departure every 10 minutes at peak times, will be extended from its current terminus Leeson Street (Wilton Terrace) to Rathmines (Palmerston Park). This will replace route 128 in this area and on Rathmines Road Upper.

Route 161 will continue to provide a connection from Rockbrook now serving Ballyboden Road, Grange Road, Nutgrove Avenue, Churctown Road Lower and Dundrum (Luas).

Route 15b and 74a will be amalgamated and called route 15b. This service will operate from Stocking Avenue to the city centre via Stocking Lane, Scholarstown Road, Ballyboden Way, Ballyroan Road, Marian Road and Templeogue Road.

LXFlyer

Summary of Templeogue QBC Changes:

Route 15, 74 and 128 will be amalgamated and renamed route 15. This high frequency service, operating every 10 minutes at peak times, will provide increased cross city penetration providing direct connections to Connolly Rail Station, Fairview and the Malahide Road. Route 15 will be extended to Stocking Avenue via St. Colmcille’s Way and Ballycullen Road.

Route 15a will operate its current alignment to the city centre. Timetables will be adjusted to meet customer demand and provide improved integration on the common alignment between current services 15, 15a and 15b.

Route 15b and 74a will be amalgamated and called route 15b. This service will operate from Stocking Avenue to the city centre via Stocking Lane, Scholarstown Road, Ballyboden Way, Ballyroan Road, Marian Road and Templeogue Road.

Route 15e and 15f will no longer operate.

Route 140, operating a high frequency service with a departure every 10 minutes at peak times, will be extended from its current terminus Leeson Street (Wilton Terrace) to Rathmines (Palmerston Park). This will replace route 128 in this area and on Rathmines Road Upper.

Route 142 will continue to provide a direct service from Portmarnock, Malahide and Holywell to the City Centre. Timetables are subject to change with similar levels of service proposed. Not shown on map.

markpb

TerryAW wrote: »

Swords Road / Templeogue / Terenure / Rathmines changes up: http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Network-Direct/Network-Direct-Phase-2/Swords--Santry--Rathfarnham--Terenure/

Pretty uninspiring set of changes there in relation to Swords and the airport. The service from the city centre to the airport is likely to deteriorate - it's not clear how often the 41b will run and the 16 is still quite unreliable because of traffic around Camden St, Aungier St and Georges St. There are still no cross-city buses from Swords (what happened to the fabled 141 that DB were so keen to introduce years ago?) and there no new connections from the northside to the airport meaning that people in Coolock, Donneycarney, Glasnevin and Finglas will continue to drive to work.

Also, the 16 route around Beaumont is very confusing on the network map - Shantalla is to the east of Swords road, not the west. Not a major problem obviously.

LXFlyer

qerty wrote: »

Major boost to the 16 and 3's frequency, 8 minutes peak and 10 minutes off peak for the 16 and the 3/a is getting an all day 10 minute frequency (which means every 20 minutes individually if it alternates between ever second bus) Major improvement here and I'm pretty pleased with these proposals actually

Looking at the the estimated times, they have the 15 down as 15 peak, 30 minute off peak but state it will be every 10 minutes at the top of the page. I'm pretty sure they mean the 15b.

Also, this is probably irrelevant but its interesting that they released the "revised" Malahide road proposals only to rename the 128 after their release to the 15. They seem to be making it up as they go along That's a bit worrying.

The 140 is no longer operating to Tallaght, but terminating in Rathmines. 54a will remain in service??????

I suspect that the 3/a frequency slipped off the page and that the top three lines are the 15, 15a and 15b respectively. What frequency it should be I don't know.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

Pretty uninspiring set of changes there in relation to Swords and the airport. The service from the city centre to the airport is likely to deteriorate - it's not clear how often the 41b will run and the 16 is still quite unreliable because of traffic around Camden St, Aungier St and Georges St. There are still no cross-city buses from Swords (what happened to the fabled 141 that DB were so keen to introduce years ago?) and there no new connections from the northside to the airport meaning that people in Coolock, Donneycarney, Glasnevin and Finglas will continue to drive to work.

Also, the 16 route around Beaumont is very confusing on the network map - Shantalla is to the east of Swords road, not the west. Not a major problem obviously.

There probably are not less buses in quantity serving the airport as the full 16 service will now go there rather than 50% (i.e. the current 16a) as at present - that will replace the 41. Less routes from town yes.

I very much doubt Swords residents will agree with you that the changes are uninspiring - they will no longer have to endure a tour of the airport to/from town 50% of the time.

Rumour is a private operator may have an application in for some of those areas mentioned above to/from the airport.

qerty

markpb wrote: »

Pretty uninspiring set of changes there in relation to Swords and the airport. There are less buses going to the airport (it's not clear how often the 41b will run and the 16 is still quite unreliable because of traffic around Camden St, Aungier St and Georges St), no cross-city buses from Swords and no new connections from the northside to the airport.

Also, the 16 route around Beaumont is very confusing on the network map - Shantalla is to the east of Swords road, not the west. Not a major problem obviously.

I'd have to disagree with you on the 16's reliability. An 8/10 frequency nullifies that problem IMO. Even if one bus goes missing or is delayed in traffic, another one should be along very soon. Just look at the 145 or 46a, they are very reliable, due to their frequency,even more so now that the rosters have been changes to more suitably accommodate the timetable/routing etc. You are never waiting long (generally) for one.

In regards to the map, it's not meant to be a geographical representation. It is designed to show the connections, that is stated very clearly at bus stops to avoid confusion.

qerty

lxflyer wrote: »

I suspect that the 3/a frequency slipped off the page and that the top three lines are the 15, 15a and 15b respectively. What frequency it should be I don't know.

Oh I never thought of that - maybe the 3/a would be 30 minutes each??

markpb

qerty wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with you on the 16's reliability. An 8/10 frequency nullifies that problem IMO. Even if one bus goes missing or is delayed in traffic, another one should be along very soon.

That's completely illogical. If there is a traffic jam on Georges St (as there frequently is) and one bus is caught in it, how can the buses behind get ahead? They won't, they bunch just like they do now except with an increased frequency, they'll bunch even worse than before.

Just look at the 145 or 46a, they are very reliable, due to their frequency

Buses don't get reliable because of frequency - they get more frequent. Buses get more reliable because of the route that they travel (and to a lesser extent, the type of passenger and the way passengers load and unload).

In regards to the map, it's not meant to be a geographical representation. It is designed to show the connections, that is stated very clearly at bus stops to avoid confusion.

True but why go out of your way to make it geographically incorrect especially when the maps are designed to show people how the new routes will work?

qerty

markpb wrote: »

That's completely illogical. If there is a traffic jam on Georges St (as there frequently is) and one bus is caught in it, how can the buses behind get ahead? They won't, they bunch just like they do now except with an increased frequency, they'll bunch even worse than before.



Buses don't get reliable because of frequency - they get more frequent. Buses get more reliable because of the route that they travel.



True but why go out of your way to make it geographically incorrect?

You don't go out of your way to make it incorrect, but it would be difficult to have a map that is geographically correct and represent the routes and connections necessary. Its also not necessary.

No, reliability and frequency are connected. I didn't mean to make it sound that frequency MAKES the route reliable, but a low frequency route makes it harder to determine when a bus will arrive, but if the frequency is high well then you can be sure that there will be a bus along shortly, the route is reliable and it attracts business.