Not entitled to free pre-school

youtwat

Hi

My daughter will be three in August and is starting pre-school in September, then going on to main school when she turns four, in 2011. Because she doesn't turn three by 30 June she is not entitled to her year's free preschool - I find this very unfair; she will be the only one in her class who is not entitled, as she is the youngest in her class. I know there is a push to keep children from attending main school until they are five, but I don't think parents who disagree should be penalised as a result. I have had my daughter's name down for this pre-school and school since she was six months old, and to change now would mean she would lose her place. It is hard to know that I have to pay €60 per week for a full year when every other child in the class is attending free. She is three on 7th August so effectively she misses out by 37 days. Can I have your thoughts on this please, or would anyone be able to advise me on who I should contact to appeal? Thanks!

Nevyn

With her turning 3 so late in the year they expect you not to start her in jr infants until she is 5 rather then when she has just turned 4.

youtwat

I know that but I feel she's more than ready and having already had her in creche (for which I'm paying) I will have to keep her there a further year before sending her to school, so either way it looks like I lose out...

metrovelvet

My son is three last week in June and he doesnt qualify for september either, but Im not going to start him in real school when he is four anyway.

But yeah, they didnt think it through. ITs not right.

Nevyn

youtwat wrote: »

I know that but I feel she's more than ready and having already had her in creche (for which I'm paying) I will have to keep her there a further year before sending her to school, so either way it looks like I lose out...

What will be the age demographic of the class she would be put in when she is in jr infants?

It used to be that kids were all aged between 4/5 and these days it's more 5/6 and a younger child can get lost in the mix if they are the lower edge of the age bellcurve in the class.

Kindle Mont.

As a montessori owner/teacher myself I fully agree that they haven't thought this scheme through, it is riddled with flaws. However I do think sending a child who has just turned 4 into junior infants is not ideal, my own son's birthday is in August, and I certainly won't be sending him to primary school until he is 5, and that will be after 2 full years of Montessori.

What is the rush in sending your child so young? You have to consider when she does her leaving cert she will be that much younger than her peers, and the extra year's maturity would stand to her. Also a year in a good montessori school would hugely benefit her.

youtwat

She will be one of the younger ones in her class, they seem to be starting later nowadays but I am happy to send her to main school when she is four. I feel that if it is an issue at a later stage, transition year being one of the options. I do feel that after a year in preschool (which children years ago didn't have before being sent to school at four) she will be more than ready. I have thought this through for a long time and I'm not rushing into it, I feel it is the right thing for my child at this time. I feel that I shouldn't be penalised for the decision. I could understand losing out for a month or so, but to lose out on a full year to me is disgraceful.

Nevyn

My daughers birthday is the start of july and she started school after she turned 4 that September. She was well able for jr infants to 2nd class but is started to struggle once she moved to the Snr school. She is the youngest in her year, she's 10 this july most of her class are already 11 and will be 12 before the new year.

She's bright, it's not the work it's the maturity levels at that age and she has suffered exclusion because of it. At the time I felt I made the right choice, she really wanted to start school, now honestly I am worried for her.

deisemum

There were a couple of children in my sons classes that had June birthdays and they started school the September after turning 4. Initially they were ok but as they progressed through the years in school their immaturity became more obvious and they ended up having to repeat a year.

2 of the mothers that I spoke with regretted sending them when they were so young because not only were they not as mature as their classmates but when they repeated it meant having to make new classmates and leaving their existing ones.

I think whoever is paying for the places are entitled to set the rules they see fit and I do see their reasoning in moving to children being older starting school and is more in line yet still behind what's considered the norm in a lot of european countries.

Also some consideration must be given to the teachers if they have a lot of children that are on the young end of the school year and trying to teach at the same time as well as trying to manage a class.

littlebug

I struggled with the decision when my child was 4 (born in May) and decided not to send her til she was 5 and I haven't regretted it. To be honest at the time my decision was because I thought that though she was able for it academically she wasn't emotionally.
Now in first class she would be at the upper end of her class ability wise but she still finds some of the work very hard (sums etc). Her best friend who is a year younger and started at 4 is really struggling with them though she is a bright girl. The differences wouldn't have been obvious in the first two years.

I know that's not what your thread is about OP and you decision is made but I do think you need to bear in mind that she will be in class with some children that are anything up to a year and a half older than her.

metrovelvet

Also physically - it must be very intimidating to be physically smaller than everyone. And stamina wise too. And what that means in the playground, phys ed etc down the line. You'll never get picked for any of the teams! Your status within the classroom must be affected too. And all your little counterparts are still at playschool, playing with sand and water, dreaming of apples and ducks.

lazygal

I am a Montessori teacher and I have to agree that in my experience five is better to start school. She might seem ready now but every primary teacher will tell you at first class and third class the younger ones can start to fall behind. It will never do her harm to have another preschool year but it will be much harder to deal with the issues she may face later on.
Every time I have recommended a child who will not be five or nearly there in Sept. should have another year, but the parents send them anyway, they have hit a wall later on. It might be first class or first year in secondary, but you need to consider how old she will be when her peers want to do certain things. My cousin went to college at 17 (even having done transition year) and has found it difficult to mix, socialise etc due to the "college lifestyle" which revolves around the pub(it is the way things are I'm afraid!).
Bottom line, I think five is the right age for school, from an emotional and psychological perspective, never mind the academics.

cynder

Thaedydal wrote: »

My daughers birthday is the start of july and she started school after she turned 4 that September. She was well able for jr infants to 2nd class but is started to struggle once she moved to the Snr school. She is the youngest in her year, she's 10 this July most of her class are already 11 and will be 12 before the new year.

She's bright, it's not the work it's the maturity levels at that age and she has suffered exclusion because of it. At the time I felt I made the right choice, she really wanted to start school, now honestly I am worried for her.

Same as my lady she was 3 starting school and turned 4 twenty days later. she did great at pre school and was really on top of things (knew how to count to 100, all the colours, all the shapes, and was very out going and could talk the head off you, many of whom that started with her were unable to do) she was also great during jr and sr infants but 1st class was hard she memorised her school reading books cover to cover but could not read some words. she was kept back in 1st class as she would be 11 starting secondary school which isnt allowed in our area and would have to do an extra year in 6th class which would be more detrimental as all her friends would be gone, shes 10 and in 4th class and is on par with everyone else. ( her school allows children to start school if they turn 4 before the 30th of sept)

my boy turns 5 in July and will be starting school in September. he is in pre school at the moment and they claim his a right clever clogs and will do well at school.

After our first lady we decided it was better to start our son when he was 5. My next lad will be 4 and 3/4 when he starts next year as i find 5 3/4 a bit too old. But he might have to start at 5 3/4 if we get told he is developmentally delayed (he has issues) he is getting an sna but hours are not determined yet. also if we are told he is developmentally delayed we get an extra years free pre school for him.

youtwat

Thanks for all the replies.. I may keep her at the preschool for two years if at all possible judging on all the info I'm getting.. I don't know if it will be possible to get keep her at this preschool for two years but I might send her to another one for a year before sending her to school. I'm too late to change my mind re sending her to preschool in September (deposit paid etc) but maybe I could keep her from going to school itself until she's five..

cynder

if i could turn back time i would have left my lady for another year.

I hope all works out for you, 2 years having fun and learning at the same time isnt bad its great, she will be defo ready when she starts school and would really excel insted of just hanging on by a thread.


good luck:)

LegacyUser

Our son will be 5 in July and will start school this year, he has had 2 years at Montessori. He has come on leaps and bounds in the past year, socially and academically, the year has meant a lot.

Our daughter's birthday is early August and there is no way she will be going to school until she has turned 5. She is streets ahead of her big brother, is very much a leader (bossy boots) and has been going to Montessori full time since before Christmas. I feel that she may well be ready at 4 for school however we have decided if she is getting bored at her montessori then we will move her to another in the area for her last year before school. She will have done 2.5yrs of pre-school which is a lot but she she is thriving there.

The main thing for us is that we would rather our child was amongst the oldest in his/her class later on than the youngest, i.e. 16 in a class of mainly 15 yr olds than 15 in a class of 16 yr olds. The latter can give rise to extra problems re boundaries, etc.

littlebug

youtwat wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies.. I may keep her at the preschool for two years if at all possible judging on all the info I'm getting.. I don't know if it will be possible to get keep her at this preschool for two years but I might send her to another one for a year before sending her to school. I'm too late to change my mind re sending her to preschool in September (deposit paid etc) but maybe I could keep her from going to school itself until she's five..

I think that would be the best option. Of all the people I talked to, threads I read on this forum and elsewhere I heard loads of people say they regretted starting them too young but not one that regretted keeping them an extra year. My eldest ended up having a year at a playschool and a year at Montessori. Could you opt for a P/T place for the first year to keep the costs down?

Nevyn

It used to be that everyone started school at age 4ish but thats shifted over the last few years.

LegacyUser

As the child of a primary school teacher who teaches infants, my mother regularly says that the older a child can start school the better. It's not the academic intelligence...it's the maturity, and it becomes increasingly evident as the child gets older, particularly with boys.

Maggiesims

Hi youtwat I will also miss out on my little boy's free playschool year. He will be four in July and will have two years spent at play school.

We have decided to send him to school in sept. this year. I have got all the "oh don't send him he will not be able for it" or "whats your rush to send him" from people.

I asked some of my younger friends ie. 23 to 26 yrs olds what age they started school at. Most of the ones that started when they were 5 said they were 19 when finishing secondary school and then spend 3-4 years in college. At 23 they had no job or savings & some didn't stay at college because they wanted a job and money and felt they were too old to be in college. My 23 year old friend started at 4, didn't do transition year, finished school at 16, college for 2 year, joined guards at 18 and qualified at 21.

We all want to do the best for our kids, my little boy will be bored at playschool for another year and feel he will benefit better from school and Youtwat you know your child best and I am just trying to point out that there are "Pros" and cons to send your child at 4.

lazygal

Maggiesims wrote: »

Hi youtwat I will also miss out on my little boy's free playschool year. He will be four in July and will have two years spent at play school.

We have decided to send him to school in sept. this year. I have got all the "oh don't send him he will not be able for it" or "whats your rush to send him" from people.

I asked some of my younger friends ie. 23 to 26 yrs olds what age they started school at. Most of the ones that started when they were 5 said they were 19 when finishing secondary school and then spend 3-4 years in college. At 23 they had no job or savings & some didn't stay at college because they wanted a job and money and felt they were too old to be in college. My 23 year old friend started at 4, didn't do transition year, finished school at 16, college for 2 year, joined guards at 18 and qualified at 21.

We all want to do the best for our kids, my little boy will be bored at playschool for another year and feel he will benefit better from school and Youtwat you know your child best and I am just trying to point out that there are "Pros" and cons to send your child at 4.

For every one anecdote like this I could show you ten children who were held behind in first or third class because they went to school too young. Based on my professional experience working with children in most cases five is the best age to start. Like I said earlier in the thread, every time a parent has sent a child into school at just about four, even though I have recommended they keep them at home or in school another year, he or she has to repeat a year. Its disruptive for the child, they have to make new friends and the guilt parents have about the choice they made and the regrets they have is heartbreaking.

ebmma

what about 4.5 yrs? :-)

lazygal

I would send a 5.5 year old to school, not a 4.5 year old:). Like I said, a child will never do badly because of a extra preschool year, but may well be left behind in big school when the consequences of that are much greater.
Five for school I say!

ebmma

lazygal wrote: »

I would send a 5.5 year old to school, not a 4.5 year old:). Like I said, a child will never do badly because of a extra preschool year, but may well be left behind in big school when the consequences of that are much greater.
Five for school I say!

guess should have signed him up for school in 2015

lazygal

If you are concerned I would talk to the school and see if you can defer for a year.
Of course you know your child and I don't, but I really would say five or over is better for the child and the parent, in terms of long-term views!

ebmma

lazygal wrote: »

If you are concerned I would talk to the school and see if you can defer for a year.
Of course you know your child and I don't, but I really would say five or over is better for the child and the parent, in terms of long-term views!

well he's 2 months old at the moment so you can say I don't know him very well
I signed him up for a local Educate together because they are '1st come 1st served'. I'm not too worried because by the time I'll need to make the decision we might not even live in the same area (we're renting).
I guess I'll see what he's like physically and mentally when time comes.

I went to school at 7 (not from Ireland) so the system is going to be all new to me

lazygal

So you have lots of time!!!!
Honestly I can only go from my years of teaching children and 99% of the time five is good for starting school. There is no need to rush him in at 4.5, he'll be just as good going a year later!:)

LashingLady

EBEmma I enrolled my little boy for the Educate Together in Ranelagh and in Kilbarrack (wasn't sure where I would be living) when he was 7 weeks old (he's nearly 2 now). I filled in two forms, one for the year he will be 4 and one when he will be 5. To be honest I didn't have any intention of sending him when he's 4 but wanted to have options....

He was born in June and when I enquired about his place on the list they told me he was around 200th on the list for the year he is 4!! So not a chance he would be getting in. If your local ET is very heavily subscribed I would consider putting his name down for the following year I would say he would be right at the top of that list. I know that the one in Ranelagh lets you have name down for two different years whereas the North Bay one you have to choose a year now so they all have different policies that you would need to check on.

ebmma

LashingLady wrote: »

EBEmma I enrolled my little boy for the Educate Together in Ranelagh and in Kilbarrack (wasn't sure where I would be living) when he was 7 weeks old (he's nearly 2 now). I filled in two forms, one for the year he will be 4 and one when he will be 5. To be honest I didn't have any intention of sending him when he's 4 but wanted to have options....

He was born in June and when I enquired about his place on the list they told me he was around 200th on the list for the year he is 4!! So not a chance he would be getting in. If your local ET is very heavily subscribed I would consider putting his name down for the following year I would say he would be right at the top of that list. I know that the one in Ranelagh lets you have name down for two different years whereas the North Bay one you have to choose a year now so they all have different policies that you would need to check on.

thanks, that's great to know!! it's the one in Ranelagh. I'll print the 2nd form straight away!

di11on

There a phenomenon that's called the "Age Position Effect".

Studies have shown that children who are towards the upper end of the age range amongst their class mates are more likely to perform better academically.

Interestingly, this study finds that it is less of a factor for gifted children.

lazygal

I have taught gifted children (only a few, they are VV rare) and IME they need preschool for socialisation more than anything. I teach Montessori and the social skills are a major part of the day, Gifted children always excell but sometimes they need big help with socialisation.