Not entitled to free pre-school

littlebug

My youngest child is academically very much ahead of his class peers and I knew this would be the case before he started. Yes he can get bored at times but in junior infants he is right where he needs to be socially and emotionally. He is also a little awkward with the more physical stuff so being with an older group would have been horrible for him. His month of birth kind of worked in his favour though...4 +10 months starting so starting any younger wouldn't have been an option anyway.

di11on

What's the rush in the end of the day?

I was 4 about 3 days whan I started.. did my leaving at 16... was that good? I was gifted so I got on ok! Lol... only joking.

Anyway, I could probably have done with a year or two more to smell the roses along the way.

All things considered, your child will benefit, at least socially, from the year in pre-school and will probably do better in jr. infants, being that bit older. Also more likely to be better for his self confidence, being towards the older end of the range.

Early isn't alway better... :-)

paperclip2

My daughter turned 4 in August and started school the following September. She's now 14 and doing Junior Cert. We had no problems with socialisation or learning ability all the way through. She's doing transition year because I want her to have a bit of a break before the leaving cert. Also if she continued she would be just 16 doing the Leaving which is waaaaay too young I think.

Her little brother turned four last Monday, he's been in playschool for almost a year but I'm not letting him go to school until he turns 5. Although hes just as bright as his sister he needs that extra year. I think it will stand to him later on. Different kids need different things.

ztoical

di11on wrote: »

What's the rush in the end of the day?

I was 4 about 3 days whan I started.. did my leaving at 16... was that good? I was gifted so I got on ok! Lol... only joking.

Anyway, I could probably have done with a year or two more to smell the roses along the way.

All things considered, your child will benefit, at least socially, from the year in pre-school and will probably do better in jr. infants, being that bit older. Also more likely to be better for his self confidence, being towards the older end of the range.

Early isn't alway better... :-)

Like some have said there are pros and cons to both....I think parents know what suits their child better. I started school the day after my 4th birthday with the plan I would repeat a year early on....there never seemed to be a good point to repeat, every teacher said I was doing fine and I just kept going. Was the youngest in my year the whole way to leaving cert never bothered me, did the LC at 16 and went to college in the September. I liked being younger when I started college as I felt I had more room to try a few different options and not be in the rush to get through college and into the work force as some of the older people on the course. Partially cus of my age I ended up doing two college degrees that have tied in well together.

thesimpsons

my daughter started school at 4yr + 2 months. Have never regretted it and now she's in 5th yr secondary. She is in the top 3 students in her year, and the others are all amoung the youngest in the year too!!!!! In her class there is an age gap of almost 2 yrs between youngest and the eldest. The older ones are already 18 and it causes its own problems being in school as virtually an adult. They can and want to socialise, drive, drink, do their own thing but yet they are held by rules and regulations of school, homework, etc. On the plus side of being older in late secondary school, they are often more mature on subject choices and career choices. But being the oldest in the class can lead to its own type of bullying too.

I know its a long time ahead for the OP but whatever you decide, don't have regrets in the future about your decision, just handle it as it comes along. You will never know whether its right to start school younger or older cos they are all different. my daughters best friend in jnr infants was almost a year older than my dd but she was held back in 1st class cos she wasn't mature enough to go onwards. To whose who continuously quoted me that 4yrs is too young, that you'll regret it starting them early, etc etc, the only answer is that "they are all different". For any research/talk that shows you that younger starters suffer, you will find just about the same amount of research/talk that older starters are too old.

iguana

lazygal wrote: »

For every one anecdote like this I could show you ten children who were held behind in first or third class because they went to school too young. Based on my professional experience working with children in most cases five is the best age to start. Like I said earlier in the thread, every time a parent has sent a child into school at just about four, even though I have recommended they keep them at home or in school another year, he or she has to repeat a year.

I'm really surprised to hear this from a montessori teacher seeing as how one of the main ethos' of montessorri is that children's education should not be based on their age and age segregation. That children should be allowed to develop themselves based on their own ability and that their age is largely irrelevant to this.

tscul32

"my daughter started school at 4yr + 2 months. Have never regretted it and now she's in 5th yr secondary. She is in the top 3 students in her year"

My mam could have written this when I was in 5th year. She'd even say it now. But I was the one who went to school after turning 4 in July and did the LC at 16 and I wouldn't send my kids at that age.
Mine are nov/dec babies so will go to school at 4y9/10m.

deisemum

If a child is on the young side and parents are thinking that transition year will give a bit more time to mature or not be too young doing the leaving cert well transition year isn't available in every school and in a lot of schools where it's available only a minority of pupils may avail of it and with the way cutbacks are and are set to continue they may not even exist when your child gets to that year.

My son will be 15 this coming September and will be going into Junior Cert and he hopes he'll be accepted to do transition year the year after. The school runs an excellent transition year programme so it's always over subscribed so he's not guaranteed a place.

youtwat

It's good to see so many different opinions. My daughter (honestly) is brighter than any other child I know, she can write her name since she was 2.6 years, she can memorise books, she honestly is very very bright. I know intellect is no substitute for maturity when she gets older but I am going to send her to preschool now when she is 3 for the stimulation more than anything, and then take her teacher's advice on whether or not to keep her back for a year, which I'll be more than happy to do if and when the time comes. I don't want to rush her but I don't want to keep her where she is at the moment as I don't feel it's doing her any good other than socially.

lazygal

iguana wrote: »

I'm really surprised to hear this from a montessori teacher seeing as how one of the main ethos' of montessorri is that children's education should not be based on their age and age segregation. That children should be allowed to develop themselves based on their own ability and that their age is largely irrelevant to this.

And if you studied it you would know that the age profiles for Montessori are 0-3, 3-6, 6-9, 9-12, 12-15 and 15-18, in order that teacher ensures each child reaches certain milestones.
The Irish system means I teach age 3 to 5-if I could teach them until 6 in Montessori I would.
Age is inherently relevent in Montessori-you can read the Secret of Childhood or the Discovery of the Child and see how Montessori studied children of various ages to track their development.

cynder

My lady memorised all her books cover to cover. when you read her a story she knew if you missed out a word (this i have also heard from many other parents as well).

When my boy was 2 he learnt how to work the computer himself, his 4 and even has his own windows profile where he can go on the Internet and go onto his favorite sites, he also has games on the computer and can go through the start menu and drop down menu to access them (has being doing that since he was 2.5 years) however he does not recite books cover to cover. He got a nintendo ds when he was 3 and can work his way round the playstaion 3. He also knows hoe to start up and close down the computer, can work the web cam and has skype so he can talk to his granny in the uk.

My other little boy who is 3 uses google talk to call his daddy at work and is getting to know the computer, can start up and shut down the computer and can load the games from the desk top, he can go on the internet to his favorite sites and play playhouse disney and disney games. and he is being assessed for an asd and adhd...... but there is no way im going to claim they are better then any other child, but as my motto goes ITS NICE TO BE IMPORTANT BUT ITS MORE IMPORTANT TO BE NICE.

Each have an area where they excel. It pointless putting another child down so you feel your child is better.

littlebug

Who wasn't nice?

We all think our own are the brightest
It's pretty much impossible to compare your own child with others. You don't know what another child can do at home when they're in their comfort zone. Access to computers and books (and parents that actively encourage and foster learning) are all things that make a difference at that age. (by that I mean the child who doesn't have them isn't necessarily any less innately clever).

But..no matter how clever a 4 year old is I think it will still be tough when they are 6 and doing the same maths tests as others in the class who are nearly 7 1/2.

For those who are saying they started at 4 and were fine... yes lots of people did and are but nowadays it is more the norm to start at 4.5 +. Some schools won't take a child if they haven't turned 4 before the summer. So that's another one to watch out for and check with your school OP.

average_runner

No offence but the rule is a good idea.

I went to school at 4, birthday was in august that year, was a few others in our class also. Came to leaving cert year and all of us decided to repeat the year before(all in different secondary schools and didnt know we all made the same decision until years later on a reunion), not because we were stupid jsut because we all felt we were too young to make an important decision on your career at 16, just gone 16 at that.


Also be very careful in pushing a kid to school when they are too young, very open to bullying in secondary school as they are a year under developed compare to most. Schools cant stop the bullying before you think they will.

littlebug

average_runner wrote: »

Also be very careful in pushing a kid to school when they are too young, very open to bullying in secondary school as they are a year under developed compare to most. Schools cant stop the bullying before you think they will.

+1 100%. One of my peers went through school as the youngest and smallest by far (but also one of the brightest) . By 13 she was in tears going to school everyday and even contemplated suicide. This was an extreme case I know but I do think parents need to think much further ahead than their bright 4 year old being ready for school now.

deisemum

For those of you who started school at an early age and are now out of the school system well primary school is so different now to when ye were in school as the curriculum and a lot of the teaching methods changed back in 2000 or there abouts.

average_runner

Yes alot has changed in teaching methods but children havent changed that much.

Bullying happens alot and alot of the time its the youngest that gets it, and none of that has changed.

cynder

littlebug wrote: »

+1 100%. One of my peers went through school as the youngest and smallest by far (but also one of the brightest) . By 13 she was in tears going to school everyday and even contemplated suicide. This was an extreme case I know but I do think parents need to think much further ahead than their bright 4 year old being ready for school now.

Very true, but unfortunately people (like me) dont realise it until you do it to your first one. My lady was very young only 3 starting Jr infants. But it all caught up with her in first class and then we realised she would be very, very young starting secondary school so we kept her back. She gets on a lot better with this class. Least im not making the mistake with my 2 boys.

I think in this day and age social skills are just as important as education, with out social skills people can become very withdrawn and even as above contemplate suicide.

I have a neighbour whos son is in 2nd class he had an assessment done by the school and they wanted to move him up a year to 3rd class (he is only 7) and the mother declined and the father agreed (they are separated), his mother asked what i thought and i said keep him where he is as it would be better for him socially and she agreed as he is a very quiet child, he gets given harder sheets to do as he is very, very intelligent and can get bored with 2nd class homework. The school have very high hopes for this young lad, but he should be able to enjoy his childhood without having to live up to expectations. He will be assessed again next year so its not as if he has lost out on a once in a lifetime opportunity.

youtwat

Each have an area where they excel. It pointless putting another child down so you feel your child is better.[/QUOTE]

I hope it didn't sound like I was putting down any other child, that wasn't my intention...

cynder

No worries,

I take it your a young mum of one who is totaly full of pride for her little one, thats perfect. Every mum should feel the same about their kids.

If i take a look at each child in my sons preschool they all have there little things that that are good at, one girl is a fantastic artist, another boy can handle the football like david beckham, they told me my son is very bright and takes in all the info and will be good at school (they could have said that to every parent in there), one of the boys is wired up to high heaven but he makes all the other kids laugh (my boy is made sit next to this boy because he calms him down(my boy is quiet)).

I cant sit here and say my boy is any better than any of the kids in his pre school, they are each lovely kids who will develop at their own rate, in 10 years time if you take a look at these bunch of kids things could be way different, my boy could become the class clown or an artist or a footballer, but most of all i want him to be happy, to be happy with himself. We have no expectations of him only that he tries, im not sitting here thinking of all the A's he is going to get, he might join the army instead or become a mechanic or plumber. Enjoying his childhood is the most i want from him now, the same goes of each of my 3 kids.

Perhaps when you have more kids and reach your 30's you might see it from a similar point of view. My daughter nearly died twice in the last 3 years and that really brings home whats important.

Take care and enjoy her early years as you never get them back again, wait until she reaches 9 and she will tell you she knows more than you do....:D

youtwat

grindelwald wrote: »

No worries,

I take it your a young mum of one who is totaly full of pride for her little one, thats perfect. Every mum should feel the same about their kids.

I am indeed a Mum of one but oh how I wish I had yet to reach my thirties and how I wish I hadn't gone through a similar experience as your own.
Don't believe all the posts I put up here (i.e. 'a bit about yourself') I don't like to give too much information away.
To be honest (and please don't take this the wrong way) your last post comes across somewhat presumptious and patronising. Some good advice nonethess

iguana

lazygal wrote: »

And if you studied it you would know that the age profiles for Montessori are 0-3, 3-6, 6-9, 9-12, 12-15 and 15-18, in order that teacher ensures each child reaches certain milestones.
The Irish system means I teach age 3 to 5-if I could teach them until 6 in Montessori I would.
Age is inherently relevent in Montessori-you can read the Secret of Childhood or the Discovery of the Child and see how Montessori studied children of various ages to track their development.

The ages divides are guidelines only. Maria Montessori stated that segregating children by age was one of the cruellest and most inhuman things society does. Tbf, that's something of a gross exaggeration, society does many worse things, but her point is a good one.

I can certainly see why you'd want to keep children in a montessori class up until 6 as the longer they can stay in that environment the better, imo. But having a child in a standard school environment where they are not challenged is extremely detrimental to their development. I tested as having adult mathematical and advanced adult literary abilities when I was 7 but I still had to go through school normally. My overriding memory of school was boredom and intense frustration. I still have nightmares about being in school where I wake up with a deep trapped, claustrophobic feeling. I'm 31, I've spent longer out of school than in school but I still have awful hang ups from that time.

I know I'm an extreme case but I think anyone who truly knows their child will be bored in the recommended age stream should seriously consider starting them earlier. Obviously they need to take the social aspect into consideration but a bored frustrated child isn't going to fit in well with their classmates any better than a satisfied child who's a year younger.

cynder

I suppose thats where the term nerds comes from (kids that are overly clever but have no social skills)

Nerd is a term, often bearing a derogatory connotation or stereotype, that refers to a person who passionately pursues intellectual activities, technical or scientific endeavours, esoteric knowledge, or other obscure interests that are age-inappropriate, rather than engaging in more social or popular activities. Therefore, a nerd is often excluded from physical activity and considered a loner by peers, or will tend to associate with like-minded people.

I sure as hell wouldnt want that for my kids.


also german kids dont start school until they are 6.

iguana

^^^^^^
What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Nevyn

grindelwald this site was founded as a place for nerd and gamers and this forum orginally for nerd and gamer parents. Yes the site has expanded beyond that but there are worse thing then to raise a child to be smart, inquisitive and passionate, who will seek to learn things just because they find them intresting.

Being a nerd does not mean you don't have social skills that is frankly an out moded stereotype.

cynder

Off topic, I have nothing against nerds, i wouldn't be where i am now without them, but i don't want that stereotypical lifestyle for my kids, i want to teach them how to enjoy life. Education is important but so is their childhood.

I dont like going down the 'my kids better than your kid' route. Not one of friends that would say their kid is brighter, more intelligent than any of the other kids they know, not even the one who has a gifted child, think thats called modesty.

This is just my opinion, sure some might agree others really disagree, isnt that what boards if for, putting across opinions. If we all thought the same it wouldnt be much fun, might as well be a robot.

Nevyn

Childhood is important and education is a huge part of it but the majority of that doesn't happen in school. I never said that my children were better, or that I was raising them in a more superior way, but the same way I would not let someone disparage a parent who is rearing their child in a 'sporty' fashion, I am not going to let someone disparage parents who are nerds, techs, engineers, gamers and bring their children up to learn those skills.

Different people enjoy life in different ways and it's not right to say that those who don't do it in the way you do are not enjoying life.

youtwat

I dont like going down the 'my kids better than your kid' route. Not one of friends that would say their kid is brighter, more intelligent than any of the other kids they know, not even the one who has a gifted child, think thats called modesty. QUOTE]

Maybe you misread 'brighter' as 'better'? I have no illusions about my daughter and I don't think she is gifted, just extreeeeeemely clever
I'm not here to be judged, I'm just here for the info...

littlebug

grindelwald wrote: »

Off topic, I have nothing against nerds, i wouldn't be where i am now without them, but i don't want that stereotypical lifestyle for my kids, i want to teach them how to enjoy life. Education is important but so is their childhood.

So children who are educated and interested in sciences and stereotypical "nerd" things aren't enjoying their childhood? I have to say that's a very narrow way of looking at things. My child gets a real kick out of numbers.... I mean he enjoys them... they make him giggle! If that's what he likes and wants to do more of then that's the direction we'll take. He'd be miserable if we were forcing him to play football. IMO it's all about knowing your own childs abilities and disabilities, interests and skills and working with them whatever direction they take.

This may come as a surprise to you but nerds can enjoy life too

I dont like going down the 'my kids better than your kid' route. Not one of friends that would say their kid is brighter, more intelligent than any of the other kids they know, not even the one who has a gifted child, think thats called modesty.

Oh come on... the woman was just making her argument about why she thought her child would be ready for school at 4... she wasn't purposely insulting anyone. To be honest I think you've probably touched more nerves with the nerd comments.

Littlebug... a nerd married to a nerd with two baby nerds

cynder

Thaedydal wrote: »

Childhood is important and education is a huge part of it but the majority of that doesn't happen in school. I never said that my children were better, or that I was raising them in a more superior way, but the same way I would not let someone disparage a parent who is rearing their child in a 'sporty' fashion, I am not going to let someone disparage parents who are nerds, techs, engineers, gamers and bring their children up to learn those skills.

Different people enjoy life in different ways and it's not right to say that those who don't do it in the way you do are not enjoying life.

I agree.

Its just i dont want to raise my kids as stereotypical nerds, But im sure their dad will have them writing in c++, visual basic, java, and more importantly flash, cold fusion and flex by the time they are 10.... and my brother will have them playing the x box and teaching them all things not to do with a computer. They will some of the best educated in computer use when they are older, even before going to college or whatever they choose to do.

D rog

I think it's really down to independance and coping skills of the child. If they have those abilities and skills at 4+ and are progressing academically then there should be no issues starting.

I don't agree as a rule that 5+ is a good idea, I also don't agree with the generalisation of starting boys older. I think children are too different and complex for such generalisations.

JI/SI curriculum is aimed at 4-6 year olds. I don't think your child being older necessarily gives them any advantage, or change to the type of child they will be and the issues they will have to face. Like many things in life you have to make the best decision you can and hope for the best.