Not entitled to free pre-school

CK2010

well im a young mum with my thirties to look forward to! and i have alot of pride for my little girl, not that i see how a womans age influences her pride for her child! and i have to agree with youtwat, grindelwald your post did seem a bit presumptious.

anyway.. my child is incredibly clever, shameless bragging here but shes so clever that her consultant and two student doctors in temple street didn't believe she was only one the first time they met her- said she was mentally at the stage of a two and a half year old! (not at all relevant but it was nice to hear!). im under no illusions about my child, i just appreciate her for what she is, as does the OP, and tbh i think thats what a mother does, appreciates the good things about their child, i think every mother thinks their child is the best thing in the world, its not putting other children down its just what being in love with your child entails!

if your childs 'thing' is their intelligence so be it. i also appreciate my childs ability to sing every word of hey soul sister, the fact that i am proud of her intelligence doesnt take away from that or from my desire for her to enjoy herself.

i dont expect any As or anything like that, and im sure its the same for the Op, but everybody wants their child to experience everything as best they can and that includes their education, and making the most of their intelligence from an early age. i also dont think it takes someone to reach the age of thirty to realise that. im glad your child is ok and am sorry for what you've been through, its horrible fearing for your childs life, but my childs medical history and my relief for her well being to date doesnt change my perspective on her education, i certainly appreciate the importance of enjoying life and childhood, but i still see education as very important. so just because a parent hasnt experienced something as life changing as that it doesnt mean that if they did it would bring home whatyou consider to be important. people will value different things as being of higher importance and nobody is right or wrong, regardless of age or what they have been through in their life. i'll admit, having a sick child does change your perspective on things but i think people with a healthy child are just as capable of putting things into perspective.


anyway my girls birthday is in august and il be waiting til shes five before she goes to school.

i know that it seems like you're running the risk of letting her get lazy/bored as shes too advanced for playschool, but tbh i dont think she'll be ready for school at that age. i think instead of sending her to school where its kind of a case of no going back (apart from repeating a year), you should maybe send her to playschool but also be teaching her more advanced stuff in the evening and at weekends if thats what she enjoys. not homeschooling or anything major like that, just more advanced games and activities.or those sticker books, the ones with activities and reward stickers.

a child doesnt need to attend school to develop their academic abilities so it might be better to do that at home and then it might be an advantage to her when she does start school.

fair play to you for wanting to encourage her abilities but theres a fine line between encouraging and pushing, and im certainly not saying you've crossed it, just that sending her to school too early may cross it unintentionally. is it an educate together school by any chance?

wow, crazy long post that comes across as very ranty/ somewhat rude so apologies, just giving my two cents.

pickarooney

I started in junior infants a couple of weeks before my fourth birthday (there was no way I was waiting a whole year for nothing, I can still remember being indignant that my cousin should be allowed go and not I). There were four kids younger than me in 6th year (most of them skipped a class in primary as they were bored out of their skulls I think), but none of us were in any way less mature, physically or psychologically, than the average.

Anecdotal, but I don't reckon there's really much to fear about your child starting school at four.

John Mason

first off i dont have any children but recently my job has taken in a slightly different direction. for the last 3 weeks i have been visiting montessori school, playgroups, creches etc.

from what i am hearing from teachers/leaders etc. 5 is the best age to be sending your child to school - some have even indicated it should be 6 with the removable of junior infants and for children to be involved in a montessori type situation.

i think what is happening with the ECCE scheme is that the government is coming around to this way of thinking, and this system is to get parents to wait until the kids are 5 before sending them to school - without actually coming out and saying it.

i think that you are concerned or have any questions about sending your child to school at 4 or 5, it would be a brilliant idea to go and have a chat with the local school and the Montessori schools and get their opinion, after all they are going to know a lot more about this.

i know because of this scheme some of the schools in dublin are struggling with numbers in september and have been encouraging parents to send children to school at 4, so they dont lose anymore funding - its really a catch 22 situation for everyone involved.

personally, i think the best thing to do is speak to as many childcare professionals as possible and arm yourself with as much information as you can.

good luck to everyone in this situation (my opinion leave them until 5 and get them into montessori - i have sooooo impressed about what i have seen and heard recently)

casio4

I was thinking of starting my little one in pre school in september even though she's not 3 til october they told me she could start in october on the day she turns 3. I have since changed my mind and i'm leaving it for another year, having spoken to alot of people about it, I now agree that she would struggle as she moves up the school and futher on in secondary school

afterhours

it doesn't matter what anyone says, it's only someone elses opinion.. do what you think is best for your child.
I was in junior kindergarden when i was three (because i was born in december) and that's the norm where i'm from.

4 years old is plenty old enough to go to school. i'm not qualified, or i suppose as educated as a montessori teacher, but i damn well know that starting school young is great for any child.

good luck

p.s i think the scheme is complete bull**** and really not fair for alot of people... tons will miss out on it.. I think my son will too, cos i'm probably going to start him in school at 4 as well.

donotpanic

YOUTWAT, I am with you on this one, my son is starting school in Sept (will be 4 in July) and he didnt get the funds for his pre-school. As a mother you know if your child is ready or not, if the state want children to be five then they should change the legal age to start school not put a scheme in place that is unfair. This is a joke, no thought put into it. I have a large family and know of plently of children who started school at 4 and they are fine. I have contact the Dept my local TD's and am still on the case to get the cut off date moved to the 1st Sept, or to allow people appeal if if they have a letter from the school stating the child has been accepted.
Grrrrrrr, I am with you on this...

Big Bag of Chips

metrovelvet wrote: »

My son is three last week in June and he doesnt qualify for september either,

He does qualify.. from Citizens Information website...

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/education/pre-school-education-and-childcare/early-childhood-care-and-education-scheme

"Eligible age range

In general, children are eligible for the ECCE scheme if they are aged between 3 years 2 months and 4 years 7 months on 1 September of the year that they will be starting. This means that children born between 2 February 2006 and 30 June 2007 (both these dates included) will be eligible to take part in the scheme in September 2010."

D rog

I believe they changed the guidlines from start of June to the end of June.
It's still unfair on July/ August baby parents.

donotpanic

D rog, you are so right, if your childs birthday is in July or August and you have a place for them in a school in Sept they should be allowed to avail of the grant. If the government do not want children starting school until they are five then they should change the law not discriminate the child, or make the parents feel like crap if they can’t afford to pay for the scheme? I know my child would go bonkers if I keep him in Montessori for another year, even his teacher said it.
In the true spirit of the scheme all children should be able to participate in the year before they start school be that when they are 4 or 5 or 6.
Also I know a few schools are running the scheme in the actual school from this Sept for the children who will start in their formal school in 2011. How terrible it will be for the child born in July and August to start school in 2011 to go into a class where all the children have been together for a year at that stage.
From my rantings I have been promised by a TD that this scheme will be brought before the Seanad this week…….rant rant rant…..heeee

iguana

donotpanic wrote: »

I know my child would go bonkers if I keep him in Montessori for another year, even his teacher said it.

It can't be proper Montessori then. Genuine Montessori is designed to bring children right up to adulthood. And even a Montessori that only does the early stages of 3-6 shouldn't be boring your child, as it's still much more stimulating than school. Often children coming from a real Montessori environment into school find themselves way ahead of their peers and used to learning at their own pace. A lot of playschools call themselves Montessori without actually using Montessori methods.

deisemum

iguana wrote: »

It can't be proper Montessori then. Genuine Montessori is designed to bring children right up to adulthood. And even a Montessori that only does the early stages of 3-6 shouldn't be boring your child, as it's still much more stimulating than school. Often children coming from a real Montessori environment into school find themselves way ahead of their peers and used to learning at their own pace. A lot of playschools call themselves Montessori without actually using Montessori methods.

Yeah I agree with this.

Tordelback

Well you've all got me worried now! My eldest boy's 4th birthday was at the end of May, and he's starting school in September after only six months of Montessori (although he's been in creche since he was 5 months old).

I had thought that he was too young, but the thought of him sitting bored through another year of 50-hour creche weeks seemed far worse, and his Montessori teacher said he was more than ready. Reading this thread I really start to worry - I was the youngest in my class throughout school, believe that 11 going into secondary school was WAY too young - I always felt physically and emotionally behind my classmates (although I did okay academically), and I hated the whole school experience.

donotpanic

All valid. Its not the starting age of the child or the preschool education that is the topic of this discussion its the fact that a child can legally start school from the age of 4 but cannot legally avail of the ECCE scheme if their birthday is in July or August.
The good point about the Montessori, how is a parent to know what is Montessori ? If it markets itself and Montessori and you pay Montessori prices I would expect it to be a Montessori. Are Montessori schools regulated? This is what I found.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/education/pre-school-education-and-childcare/health_safety_and_welfare_of_preschool_childcare_services
I think what his teacher was saying is that he is mature enough to go to school and that a lot of the activities she is doing he is able to do well.

metaoblivia

I'm a private tutor and the majority of my students are young - June/July/August babies - for their class. They struggle with maturity and academics, and several were almost held back this year. Again and again, I hear, "I wish I had held off on school," from their parents. It seems like a small thing, but it can make a big difference. And when I meet with new clients, it's one of the first things I ask - is your child young for their class.

So, from my experience, I think you need to be very careful about starting school too early. That's not to say that it's bound to be a mistake. A lot of it depends on the individual child. For example, both my brother and I were August babies. We were both the youngest children in our classes. He really struggled as the years went on, and my mother came to regret not putting off school for that extra year. On the other hand, I was fine - never had a problem (and was even one of the tallest kids in my class).

But talk to the teachers and be aware of the potential consequences. And remember, even if she can handle it academically, maturity is also an issue and can be harder to see at such a young age.

Kindle Mont.

donotpanic wrote: »

The good point about the Montessori, how is a parent to know what is Montessori ? If it markets itself and Montessori and you pay Montessori prices I would expect it to be a Montessori. Are Montessori schools regulated? This is what I found.

The trouble is a lot of glorified play schools can stick "Montessori" on the door and charge you "montessori prices" as Maria Montessori never legislated her name. These playschools are the ones who are actually making a profit with the ECCE scheme. Genuine Montessori schools, (one of which I run), have spent thousands of euro on their specialist equipment, and spend many extra hours a week planning their weekly themed curriculum. As a parent you really need to visit as many as you can before you make your decision and it will be apparent to you which schools are genuine montessori schools.

knipex

youtwat wrote: »

Hi

My daughter will be three in August and is starting pre-school in September, then going on to main school when she turns four, in 2011. Because she doesn't turn three by 30 June she is not entitled to her year's free preschool - I find this very unfair; she will be the only one in her class who is not entitled, as she is the youngest in her class. I know there is a push to keep children from attending main school until they are five, but I don't think parents who disagree should be penalised as a result. I have had my daughter's name down for this pre-school and school since she was six months old, and to change now would mean she would lose her place. It is hard to know that I have to pay €60 per week for a full year when every other child in the class is attending free. She is three on 7th August so effectively she misses out by 37 days. Can I have your thoughts on this please, or would anyone be able to advise me on who I should contact to appeal? Thanks!

Perhaps not releveant but as someone who started school just after turnign four can i recomend you wanit a year.

I have no doubt she is ready. Now.

But think down the line a bit.

I sat my leaving cet at 16 and started uni just after turning 17.....

I was too young.

tscul32

Me too - 4 in July and school in Sept. I too wish I hadn't been sent that young, wouldn't send my kids that young. I know others who've been there and wish they hadn't. But I also know those who had no problems at the same age. I guess the problem is that you just don't know. I've heard it said that many regret sending their kids too young but noone regrets sending them older. My only issue with the posts about 'you know your child best' is that my mam still thinks it was the right thing to do and would question me if I held back a summer baby (thankfully mine are 'end of year' kids, will start at 4y+9/10m). I can't blame her cos I never had any problems until I was well in secondary school. What she saw was a child who was top of the class the whole way through - got a great LC at 16, BSc at 20. But it took me a long time to feel like I 'fit in' anywhere.
But for everyone that I know who has 'regrets' there were more who had none. I suppose that I assume my kids have a good chance of being a bit like me so I wouldn't go there, they might be fine but I personally wouldn't like to take a chance given I know what's in their genes.
You just make your decision and stick with it, but make the decision on your own so you never have the 'I knew I shouldn't have listened to X' feeling.

Big Bag of Chips

tscul32 wrote: »

I've heard it said that many regret sending their kids too young but noone regrets sending them older.

That's the thing isn't it.. and anyway.. why the rush to send them? I have a summer baby. She is really bright, really outgoing and confident. In playschool at the minute (just turned 3). Her playschool teacher says she'll fly school next year (just gone 4) but I still have my doubts about sending her.

I have no doubts about her academic ability.. I am more worried about her starting 1st year at just gone 12. At that stage, girls in her class who are that bit older will be interested in boyfriends, waxing! make up etc.. and I'd be afraid that she mightn't be mature enough for all the teenage angst, before she's a proper teenager! I just think a year can make a huge difference.

Now who's to know.. she might turn out to be a very mature and capable 12 year old.. but how do you know?

My mind is almost made up to hold onto her until she's 5... not because of her starting age, but because of her finishing age.

What's the rush in sending them to school anyway?

Tordelback

What's the rush in sending them to school anyway?

Free childcare!

My own motivation (aside form believing that kids were supposed to go to school at 4... I wish the Dept had issued some sort of advice in this regard) was to get the poor lad out of creche for 10 hours a day where he is now. He's been loving Montessori, but it's in the same building as the creche so even when he finishes 'school' he's got 6 more hours to go. At least with school there'll be a definite break and a change of scene.

Please nobody suggest one of us going part-time/flexi-time and taking him out for the afternoons - asked, begged, pleaded, went to the Union, told to shut up or p**s off. There's a recession on, apparently, so employers can do what they like as long as they're good enough to employ you.

Apologies for dragging this thread off topic...

CookieMonster.x

Sorry if I'm not allowed to post in here, but I just thought I'd give my view.
I'm 14 and started school when I was 4, 5 that following November. My parents wanted me to start the year before but the principal wouldn't let me (They had gotten a psychological assessment to say I'm smart - I hope I don't sound cocky here). We (my brothers and sister and I) moved to a different school 2 years later, where I was allowed to skip 1st class. My parents thought long and hard about it and let me skip it. I was the youngest but I still mixed in well (only 7 in the class).
My point is, is that you will know your child best. I have just finished my Junior Cert and I feel I have done so much better having skipped a year, which is almost like starting early because I'm still the youngest for everything.
You know your child better than anyone. If you think s/he is mature enough, send him/her (sorry can't remember if your child is a boy or girl) to preschool this September. S/he will still be 4 in Junior Infants. I know one girl in my year in the same boat as you (birthday wise) and she's grand now. I don't think s/he would fall behind/get lost among some older kids.
Good luck with this anyway and sorry if my post is a bit over the place.

Big Bag of Chips

Tordelback wrote: »

My own motivation (aside form believing that kids were supposed to go to school at 4...

When did it start that kids were supposed to go to school at 4? I started primary school 28 years ago (Sh1t!!.. Did I really?!) And I was 5, a late summer baby. I would have been "average" age in my class, a few older than me a few younger than me, but there weren't loads in my class who would have been a whole year younger than me.

I'm hearing alot, nowadays, that people are sending their child at 5, rather than 4, and I just keep thinking, almost 30 years ago, people were sending their children at 5 rather than 4!!

deisemum

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

When did it start that kids were supposed to go to school at 4? I started primary school 28 years ago (Sh1t!!.. Did I really?!) And I was 5, a late summer baby. I would have been "average" age in my class, a few older than me a few younger than me, but there weren't loads in my class who would have been a whole year younger than me.

I'm hearing alot, nowadays, that people are sending their child at 5, rather than 4, and I just keep thinking, almost 30 years ago, people were sending their children at 5 rather than 4!!

In my neck of the wood a lot of children were 3 going on 4 when they started school. No playschool and large families so you were off at a young age.

coffee_cake

youtwat wrote: »

I know that but I feel she's more than ready and having already had her in creche (for which I'm paying) I will have to keep her there a further year before sending her to school, so either way it looks like I lose out...

If you feel she's ready, then let her start school. I was in first class (not JI/SI) at 4 going on 5 and I never had trouble throughout school or uni. I wasn't the only one, as there was a 10 year old starting 1st year when I was in secondary, and there were enough kids doing the leaving at 16.

If you do keep her back make sure she is challenged academically at home.

iguana

deisemum wrote: »

In my neck of the wood a lot of children were 3 going on 4 when they started school.

Yup, I turned 3 in December and started school in January. Two of my second cousins were also in my class and they are both a few weeks younger than me. And we all carried on to the next class at the end of the academic year.

Some people have said that you might regret sending them too early but you won't regret waiting a year. That's incredibly shortsighted. One of the worst things you can teach a child is how to get through school on little or no effort as it encourages laziness. And if laziness is ingrained in a child they will have a hard time shaking it off throughout their lives. Imo, that's far more damaging than anything that will come from being the younger than their peers.

littlebug

iguana wrote: »

Some people have said that you might regret sending them too early but you won't regret waiting a year. That's incredibly shortsighted. One of the worst things you can teach a child is how to get through school on little or no effort as it encourages laziness. And if laziness is ingrained in a child they will have a hard time shaking it off throughout their lives. Imo, that's far more damaging than anything that will come from being the younger than their peers.

I see your point but I think that's fine for the more able children but could be very detrimental to those who are average or less able. I know children who were sent to school at 4 because they were "well able for it" and now in 1st or second class are struggling even with resource teacher help. For the most part it's very hard to judge how a child of 4 will cope with the more advanced work a few years down the line.

Big Bag of Chips

deisemum wrote: »

In my neck of the wood a lot of children were 3 going on 4 when they started school. No playschool and large families so you were off at a young age.

I lived (live!) in a rural area, playschools were unheard of up until about 7 or 8 years ago.. They were for the "city slickers"!!

It's a very personal thing, and a very personal choice. No 2 children can be judged against each other. I was very bright. School was very easy for me. I never had any difficulty in any subject... BUT I would think that when I got to secondary school, I would have been a more innocent child (and still am!!) than those a year ahead of me in school.. even though some of them may have been roughly the same age.

As I said, it's a personal choice, and going back to the Original point, if a child doesn't qualify for the pre-school year because of age, then is should be made a requirement that children will be 5, or turn 5 in Junior Infants.

iguana

littlebug wrote: »

I see your point but I think that's fine for the more able children but could be very detrimental to those who are average or less able. I know children who were sent to school at 4 because they were "well able for it" and now in 1st or second class are struggling even with resource teacher help. For the most part it's very hard to judge how a child of 4 will cope with the more advanced work a few years down the line.

I agree and it's a delicate balance, but there are just as many negatives to waiting as there are to starting school early and it's short-sighted to say there isn't. All the pros and cons need to be looked at and weighed up on a case by case basis.

Promoteland

Hi all! I know you are discussing the pre schools here, but I have a bit different question about PLAYGROUND. Could anyone recommend me a part time playground that wouldn't cost me much in Tallaght area or somewhere close. Or may be someone know how to qualify for a free one? Thanks

January

Playgrounds are mostly free? Is it a play group you are talking about?

Promoteland

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Playgrounds are mostly free? Is it a play group you are talking about?

yes exactly. I mean a place where I can bring my 2 years baby for nursing for a few hours. In Tallaght or close to.