Streetlighting - or lack of - on motorways: Opinions?

sdanseo

Just looking through pics of the various motorways under construction around the place, and from traveling on pretty much all of them, it's fairly obvious that street lighting is just about totally absent apart from junctions (even then it's sparse in a few spots). In fact on the wider stretches like the M50 you could nearly have a case for extra lights in the middle as well as on both sides like in other countries.

I know the general consensus seems to be that for long rural stretches lighting isn't needed - and I'd tend to agree. In fact I like the cats eyes and the drive somehow seems more peaceful without the glare.

However, driving on the M2 the other week I was struck that the concrete barrier didn't block out the full headlights of the cars coming against me. Also, I found that I needed my full beams to see properly when there was still a car in front, meaning I was potentially causing glare on him - and I got the same thing from cars behind myself. None of that happens when there's streetlights.

Belgium I think is one of the only countries with a fully-lit system of motorways. Should we go that way too, and for what reasons? Or is it a huge waste of money and leccy?

Opinions?

Zoney

Huge waste of money and electricity to completely light motorways.

*However* I would argue lighting is insufficient at some junctions, for example only going partway down the slip roads. I would argue it should all be like the better lit parts of the motorway network where lighting extends right to the end of the merge/diverge lanes.

Also for example on Limerick Southern Ring Road phase 2 where e.g. the M20/N69 junctions are quite close together, instead of driver having lit, unlit, lit in close sequence, it should be lit in between the junctions also (probably should also be the case between N24 and R445/old N7).

Mc Love

i think if you are using your full beams and you can see the car in front, you need to be taken out to the city square and stoned

murphaph

The Beligians have started switching off every second light on some stretches to save energy. I also think it's hugely wasteful on rural, relatively lightly trafficked motorways but agree that junctions should really be lit up like christmas trees, well onto the motorway at slip road merges, so your eyes don't have to adjust to different light levels just as you are trying to merge.

KevR

I'm not impressed with the lack of lighting at junctions on the M6 between Galway and Athlone. The M6 further East and the M4 has much better lighting at junctions.

In my opinion, the ramps should be fully lit and the mainline through the junction should be lit (from just before the diverge to just after the merge). On the M6 Galway-Athlone only a small section at the top of each ramp is lit and there is no lighting on the mainline through the junction.

Other than at junctions, I don't think we need too much more lighting on motorways. Unless maybe a couple of sections near the cities which are extremely busy.

Stinicker

I think the concrete barriers as a divider are a disgrace, they are far too low and driving by night on a quite motorway means having to dim for the guy coming towards you on the otherside of the motorway ffs!

They should have left a large grass median and install the concrete barriers inbetween and plant some high hedges. I think they should retrofit timber or steel railings ontop of the concrete barrier to cut out light overspill from the other side and also to prevent rubber necking from what is happening over there.

KevR

Stinicker wrote: »

I think the concrete barriers as a divider are a disgrace, they are far too low and driving by night on a quite motorway means having to dim for the guy coming towards you on the otherside of the motorway ffs!

They should have left a large grass median and install the concrete barriers inbetween and plant some high hedges. I think they should retrofit timber or steel railings ontop of the concrete barrier to cut out light overspill from the other side and also to prevent rubber necking from what is happening over there.

Sorry but I really don't agree.

If there is oncoming traffic you are obligated to dip your lights. Just because there are 2 seperate carriageways instead of a single carriageway doesn't mean you can or should be able to drive with full headlights when there is oncoming traffic.

The main purpose of the central barrier is to prevent traffic from crossing over onto the other carriageway. The concrete barrier is the most effective* and safest solution. It's not really the intended purpose of the central barrier to block out light, although sometimes it does.

My dipped headlights are usually fine for cruising on motorways. Can see far enough ahead with dipped headlights because of the cat's eyes and reflectors.

Wide median motorways cost significantly more to build. If you were to build wide medians, put in a concrete barrier and plant hedges, that would actually make the concrete barrier less effective and less safe.


*As far as I know, there have been no vehicle crossovers ever in Ireland or the UK where a concrete barrier is in place.

murphaph

The Germans sometimes fit light blockers on top of jersey or armco barriers to prevent light overspill on bends, but rarely on straight sections.



link

sdanseo

KevR wrote: »

Sorry but I really don't agree.
If there is oncoming traffic you are obligated to dip your lights. Just because there are 2 seperate carriageways instead of a single carriageway doesn't mean you can or should be able to drive with full headlights when there is oncoming traffic.
My dipped headlights are usually fine for cruising on motorways. Can see far enough ahead with dipped headlights because of the cat's eyes and reflectors.

Nah, don't agree. Maybe my dips are ****e, I'm driving a banger and a lot of dips on newer cars seem a lot brighter. Or maybe it's that I'm in a lower car and the light is aiming down at me, or even that I have bad night vision or something.

The problem would be solved by the above suggestion re hedges, or even the light blockers. Maybe streetlights on the whole lot isn't the way to go, but I thought it'd be an interesting topic (personally I do think it'd be a waste of energy in the extreme even though it'd solve the light issue).

Worth noting that the only motorway I've noticed the problem on really is the M2 which is three lanes. For some reason it doesn't seem too bad on D2.

Stinicker

murphaph wrote: »

The Germans sometimes fit light blockers on top of jersey or armco barriers to prevent light overspill on bends, but rarely on straight sections.



link

Legend!, I was looking for an image of them, I drove in Germany in March and the were fitted on curved sections of the Autobahn but were also being fitted on straight bits also. They serve block the light and also prevent rubber necking.

murpho999

Wow, I'm surprised. Am I the only person, who has never ever driven with full lights on a motorway?

Really don't see why you need them, if the road is not lit then you have the cats eyes and also you never ever have the road to yourself so why bother when you'll have to constantly dip them every few seconds?

Don't think more lights are needed on motorways as I find the combination of dipped headlights and cat's eyes to be perfectly safe.

Del2005

murpho999 wrote: »

Wow, I'm surprised. Am I the only person, who has never ever driven with full lights on a motorway?

Maybe, but I find the full beams give you a better view ahead for things other then cars which may be on the road.

I tend to drive with full beams on whenever I'm not meeting, or following, another vehicle regardless of what type of road I'm driving on.

Stinicker

Del2005 wrote: »

Maybe, but I find the full beams give you a better view ahead for things other then cars which may be on the road.

I tend to drive with full beams on whenever I'm not meeting, or following, another vehicle regardless of what type of road I'm driving on.

Yeah, I always drive with the full beams on when not following a vehicle or meeting one coming towards me especially on the Motorway. Irish Motorways have lots of curves and if you are doing 180km/h - 200km/h coming into one of the curve you need to be able to see well ahead incase there is a pileup just around the corner and be able to stop accordingly.

serfboard

Del2005 wrote: »

Maybe, but I find the full beams give you a better view ahead for things other then cars which may be on the road.

I tend to drive with full beams on whenever I'm not meeting, or following, another vehicle regardless of what type of road I'm driving on.

I do the same. And I agree with your point about potential hazards like animals which may be on the road.

KevR

Stinicker wrote: »

Yeah, I always drive with the full beams on when not following a vehicle or meeting one coming towards me especially on the Motorway. Irish Motorways have lots of curves and if you are doing 180km/h - 200km/h coming into one of the curve you need to be able to see well ahead incase there is a pileup just around the corner and be able to stop accordingly.

At night, seriously?

murphaph

Stinicker wrote: »

Yeah, I always drive with the full beams on when not following a vehicle or meeting one coming towards me especially on the Motorway. Irish Motorways have lots of curves and if you are doing 180km/h - 200km/h coming into one of the curve you need to be able to see well ahead incase there is a pileup just around the corner and be able to stop accordingly.

Eh? The limit on Irish motorways is 120 mate! Travelling at 200km/h on a road where the design speed is 160km/h, you are likely going to cause said pileup

Stinicker

KevR wrote: »

At night, seriously?

I am referring to Motorways in general and have driven at 300km/h on the Autobahn but tend to keep it under 120 to 125km/h in Ireland. Motorways are designed for high speed and the only reason we have a pathetic 120km/h speed limit here is beacuse Irish drivers are so stupid and have no clue to drive on Motorways. Having said that I don't always speed but am just showing how important that is to have good lighting especially at quite high speeds.

Tefral

Stinicker wrote: »

Irish drivers are so stupid and have no clue to drive on Motorways..

Never a truer word spoken..

As a Quantity Surveyor, ive seen how much the components of a motorway cost and believe me, even to add another 500mm to the tops of the central precast concrete barrier is huge..

In my 8 years of driving on the roads, i think i may have used my headlights twice on motorways, and i drive them (mostly between limerick and dublin) once a week.

The lighting at junctions does need to be looked at, however there is no need to light a whole carriageway.

KevR

Stinicker wrote: »

I am referring to Motorways in general and have driven at 300km/h on the Autobahn but tend to keep it under 120 to 125mph in Ireland. Motorways are designed for high speed and the only reason we have a pathetic 120km/h speed limit here is beacuse Irish drivers are so stupid and have no clue to drive on Motorways. Having said that I don't always speed but am just showing how important that is to have good lighting especially at quite high speeds.

Agree that Irish drivers don't have a clue about motorways or driving in general. I wouldn't be against an increase of the speed limit to 130 or 140kmh on certain sections. Even with light blockers on the median and my full headlights on, I still probably wouldn't drive too much above 120kmh at night. During the day is different - I wouldn't hesitate at driving at 140kmh on many sections of motorway if the speed limit was increased.

Jayuu

Stinicker wrote: »

I am referring to Motorways in general and have driven at 300km/h on the Autobahn but tend to keep it under 120 to 125km/h in Ireland. Motorways are designed for high speed and the only reason we have a pathetic 120km/h speed limit here is beacuse Irish drivers are so stupid and have no clue to drive on Motorways. Having said that I don't always speed but am just showing how important that is to have good lighting especially at quite high speeds.

While not disagreeing with the stupidity of some Irish drivers, are you seriously advocating driving at speeds of 200 kph and higher anywhere in the world?

In such situations you're giving yourself (or more importantly other road users) no room for error or reaction in the event of an accident or an emergency. And that has nothing to do with stupidity.

Motorways are designed for high-speed as you say but there has to be a reasonable limit to that speed. Bar emergency services nobody needs to be travelling at the speeds you mention. I hope I'm never anywhere near you on a road.

sdanseo

Jayuu wrote: »

While not disagreeing with the stupidity of some Irish drivers, are you seriously advocating driving at speeds of 200 kph and higher anywhere in the world?

In such situations you're giving yourself (or more importantly other road users) no room for error or reaction in the event of an accident or an emergency. And that has nothing to do with stupidity.

Motorways are designed for high-speed as you say but there has to be a reasonable limit to that speed. Bar emergency services nobody needs to be travelling at the speeds you mention. I hope I'm never anywhere near you on a road.

In fairness, people drive on the autobahns at 200kmh+ every day, even 300km/h I'm sure. Mind you, there are many fatal accidents at those speeds.

Our motorways have a design speed of 160km/h. It would be perfectly safe therefore to have a limit of 160km/h and I reckon the only reason for the 120km/h limit is both congestion and driver attitude - there are a good few stretches where the volume of traffic and 2 lanes at 160km/h would equal a death trap. On the flip side, stretches of the M8/M6 are empty even at what would be the busiest times of the day.

Also, it's a bit silly to say you hope you're never near him on a road in response to a statement in which he said he adheres to the speed limit whilst in Ireland

Stinicker

Jayuu wrote: »

While not disagreeing with the stupidity of some Irish drivers, are you seriously advocating driving at speeds of 200 kph and higher anywhere in the world?

In such situations you're giving yourself (or more importantly other road users) no room for error or reaction in the event of an accident or an emergency. And that has nothing to do with stupidity.

Motorways are designed for high-speed as you say but there has to be a reasonable limit to that speed. Bar emergency services nobody needs to be travelling at the speeds you mention. I hope I'm never anywhere near you on a road.

Yes I am advocating speeds in excess of 200km/h and I have driven far in excess of this in Germany and I know a guy in Ingolstadt who has driven on it at over 400km/h.

The reasons I drive slower in Ireland is that distance is not that great, I can get penalty points if I get caught, I only get 12mpg when I go over the ton but my main reason is that if I blast down the overtaking lane at 200km/h some dope in an Avensis/Micra or Yaris will more than likely pull out into the overtaking lane without indicating and ever checking their mirrors and then proceed to overtake whatever is in their way at the breakneck speed of 119/120kmh, when the guy in the driving lane maybe already doing 115-118kmh thus taking anything up to a minute to actually overtake. Meanwhile my brakedisks will be glowing like lava and I may have browned the underpants all while enjoying a nice foot massage courtesy of ABS.

Our Motorways are fine at 160km/h 100MPH but the biggest drawback is by far the drivers on it and until Education, Driver Attitudes and the ol' I'm happy with my 1.3l 80BHP 0-60 in 3 days types are not there anymore allowing such speeds will not be an option. I think that to counter this we should introduce Motorway Vignettes and abolish tolls in effect pricing incompetent drivers off the motorways, either that or add a new Motorway category to the driving test so you'd have to have a Motorway licence to drive.

After all Motorways are not country bohereens and if people have a problem with speeding above 70mph I suggest they stick to the old NRoads where their equals held us all up for years crawling along at 40mph and then increasing speed anywhere there was a half decent overtaking straight.

nordydan

Stinicker wrote: »

Yes I am advocating speeds in excess of 200km/h and I have driven far in excess of this in Germany and I know a guy in Ingolstadt who has driven on it at over 400km/h.

The reasons I drive slower in Ireland is that distance is not that great, I can get penalty points if I get caught, I only get 12mpg when I go over the ton but my main reason is that if I blast down the overtaking lane at 200km/h some dope in an Avensis/Micra or Yaris will more than likely pull out into the overtaking lane without indicating and ever checking their mirrors and then proceed to overtake whatever is in their way at the breakneck speed of 119/120kmh, when the guy in the driving lane maybe already doing 115-118kmh thus taking anything up to a minute to actually overtake. Meanwhile my brakedisks will be glowing like lava and I may have browned the underpants all while enjoying a nice foot massage courtesy of ABS.

Our Motorways are fine at 160km/h 100MPH but the biggest drawback is by far the drivers on it and until Education, Driver Attitudes and the ol' I'm happy with my 1.3l 80BHP 0-60 in 3 days types are not there anymore allowing such speeds will not be an option. I think that to counter this we should introduce Motorway Vignettes and abolish tolls in effect pricing incompetent drivers off the motorways, either that or add a new Motorway category to the driving test so you'd have to have a Motorway licence to drive.

After all Motorways are not country bohereens and if people have a problem with speeding above 70mph I suggest they stick to the old NRoads where their equals held us all up for years crawling along at 40mph and then increasing speed anywhere there was a half decent overtaking straight.

What car was he driving??

Stinicker

nordydan wrote: »

What car was he driving??

Wasn't, he was on a Hayabusa bike on the A9 somewhere north of Ingolstadt!

sdanseo

Stinicker wrote: »

Yes I am advocating speeds in excess of 200km/h and I have driven far in excess of this in Germany and I know a guy in Ingolstadt who has driven on it at over 400km/h.

The reasons I drive slower in Ireland is that distance is not that great, I can get penalty points if I get caught, I only get 12mpg when I go over the ton but my main reason is that if I blast down the overtaking lane at 200km/h some dope in an Avensis/Micra or Yaris will more than likely pull out into the overtaking lane without indicating and ever checking their mirrors and then proceed to overtake whatever is in their way at the breakneck speed of 119/120kmh, when the guy in the driving lane maybe already doing 115-118kmh thus taking anything up to a minute to actually overtake. Meanwhile my brakedisks will be glowing like lava and I may have browned the underpants all while enjoying a nice foot massage courtesy of ABS.

Our Motorways are fine at 160km/h 100MPH but the biggest drawback is by far the drivers on it and until Education, Driver Attitudes and the ol' I'm happy with my 1.3l 80BHP 0-60 in 3 days types are not there anymore allowing such speeds will not be an option. I think that to counter this we should introduce Motorway Vignettes and abolish tolls in effect pricing incompetent drivers off the motorways, either that or add a new Motorway category to the driving test so you'd have to have a Motorway licence to drive.

After all Motorways are not country bohereens and if people have a problem with speeding above 70mph I suggest they stick to the old NRoads where their equals held us all up for years crawling along at 40mph and then increasing speed anywhere there was a half decent overtaking straight.

I agree completely. I got a lift with my mother to the North and she used the M1 for the first leg of the journey...at 85-95kmh the entire way. People were flying past here anhd at that speed she was lucky not to cause an accident. Of course when a 21 year old tries to tell Mammy this, I get told to shut my trap and that she's been in the world much longer than me and therefore know all in relation to motorway driving :rolleyes:

The way I'd put it, quite simply (to everyone except my Mum, i want to stay alive) would be if you're not going to do minimum 110km/h on the motorway, GET THE F*** OFF IT.

csd

Folks,

A number of posters have made reference to the design speed of Irish motorways as being 160 km/h (here and in other threads). I'd be interested to see any documentation that supports this, as every EIS I've read has stated a design speed of 120 km/h. Has anyone got any links to documentation that supports the 160 claim?

Thanks,

/csd

nordydan

Stinicker wrote: »

Wasn't, he was on a Hayabusa bike on the A9 somewhere north of Ingolstadt!

At 400km/hr?

murpho999

I'm sorry but anyone who drives at 200kph in a car or 400kph on a bike (is that really possible?) is an idiot and just asking for trouble no matter what type of road it is. Mistakes will always happen as long as humans are in control of the cars, and speeds like that just allow no reaction time no matter how good the road is or how good a driver the person thinks themselves to be.

I agree entirely that Irish people need to be educated as to how to drive on a motorway but allowing a free for all is not the answer.

People keep citing the free for all that exists on some of Germany's Autobahnen but I think the fact no other countries have this system proves that it should not be the standard of driving we should aspire to.

Saruman

sdonn wrote: »

Also, I found that I needed my full beams to see properly when there was still a car in front, meaning I was potentially causing glare on him - and I got the same thing from cars behind myself. None of that happens when there's streetlights.

Really? Do you have bad eyesight or is it some sort of nervousness about driving in the dark?

I mean I absolutely NEVER put on my high beams on a motorway. I have no need whatsoever and can see everything clearly. My dipped headlights are just normal cheap halfords bulbs and not superbrights either.

I actually do not get the need for anyone to drive with high beams on while on a motorway and especially why some muppets leave them on when a car is travelling in the opposite direction.

Amtmann

German Autobahns are a) conjested and b) filled with slow-moving artics and camper vans, and, worst of all, serial tailgaters. Driving at 200km/h is not uncommon, but I would say most cars do about 160 - 180. Two-hundred is very risky, and anyone who drives above this speed is a selfish menace and a fool.

sdanseo

Saruman wrote: »

Really? Do you have bad eyesight or is it some sort of nervousness about driving in the dark?

I mean I absolutely NEVER put on my high beams on a motorway. I have no need whatsoever and can see everything clearly. My dipped headlights are just normal cheap halfords bulbs and not superbrights either.

I actually do not get the need for anyone to drive with high beams on while on a motorway and especially why some muppets leave them on when a car is travelling in the opposite direction.

I'm short sighted but no my night vision is generally fine. I'd just come off the N2 which is wide S2 and that's MUCH harder to drive on at night because you constantly have glare from oncoming caqrs even if it is only dips. When you've nothing to follow you have to concentrate quite hard to keep yourself centred so myabe my eyesight was still adjusted to that sort of driving.

Carawaystick

Furet wrote: »

German Autobahns are a) conjested and b) filled with slow-moving artics and camper vans, and, worst of all, serial tailgaters.

Some are, some aren't. I've been on a few near Trier and Leipzig that were as empty as some here

Wild Bill

Firstly, I strongly disagree with those who are making sweeping statements about how bad Irish drivers are. At someone who does 60k/annum, including perhaps 10k in Britain/Europe I cannot agree. In fact I'd rate Irish drivers as better than average on the whole.

But back to streetlights on motorways.

What the Irish are uniquely poor at in the Northern European context is keeping streetlights in working order. Count the number of not-working streetlights in the UK or Germany, France etc on some long boring trip. Consistently, over decades, the total not working (at night, obviously) is maybe 1%, tops. In Ireland it is usual to have between 10 and 20% of the lights broken.

Take the Naas Road for example. Or the junctions on the M7 between Naas and Portlaoise where you'll get three or four lights in a row out on the ramps - in some cases for a year before they replace them all in one go.

(This failure isn't restricted to motorways btw - check your local main road. Estates tend to be a bit better, presumably because people complain if the light near their house is out).

So before we start putting more lights on the m-ways let's get them to maintain the existing ones "up to European norms".

Decades of pointing this situation out to Local Authorities have left me in a state of exhaustion and despair. Woe is me.....:(

sdanseo

Wild Bill wrote: »

Firstly, I strongly disagree with those who are making sweeping statements about how bad Irish drivers are. At someone who does 60k/annum, including perhaps 10k in Britain/Europe I cannot agree. In fact I'd rate Irish drivers as better than average on the whole.

But back to streetlights on motorways.

What the Irish are uniquely poor at in the Northern European context is keeping streetlights in working order. Count the number of not-working streetlights in the UK or Germany, France etc on some long boring trip. Consistently, over decades, the total not working (at night, obviously) is maybe 1%, tops. In Ireland it is usual to have between 10 and 20% of the lights broken.

Take the Naas Road for example. Or the junctions on the M7 between Naas and Portlaoise where you'll get three or four lights in a row out on the ramps - in some cases for a year before they replace them all in one go.

(This failure isn't restricted to motorways btw - check your local main road. Estates tend to be a bit better, presumably because people complain if the light near their house is out).

So before we start putting more lights on the m-ways let's get them to maintain the existing ones "up to European norms".

Decades of pointing this situation out to Local Authorities have left me in a state of exhaustion and despair. Woe is me.....:(

ESB are responsible for streetlights too I think, it's them that fix them.

Seems they've delegated the job to airtricity: http://www.esb.ie/esbcustomersupply/residential/contact_us/my_streelight_is_broken.jsp

KenHy

I cant believe what I'm reading here.

Don't drive on a motorway with your headlights. If you cant see without them that either,

1) Your eyesight is not good enough to drive with at night and you should not be on the road.

2) Your car has insufficient dipped lights, and your car should not be on the road.

Putting lighting on motorways is a complete waste of energy and creates light pollution as well.

As for the speed limits, relay guys? speed limits are there for a reason. You don't actually know better and for once neither do the Germans. Many die on the stretches of non-speed limit AutoBahns, which is why everywhere else (including most of the AutoBahn network, there are speed limits ranging around 120-140 kmph.)

Zoney

KenHy wrote: »

I cant believe what I'm reading here.

Don't drive on a motorway with your headlights. If you cant see without them that either,

1) Your eyesight is not good enough to drive with at night and you should not be on the road.

2) Your car has insufficient dipped lights, and your car should not be on the road.

Actually, your dipped headlights may not show up enough of the road in front of you given that you are travelling at 120 km/h and the distance visible in front of you is covered rapidly. From ROTR "Dipped lights will let you see for about 30 metres and a car travelling at 100km/h will cover this distance in approximately a second." Even on a motorway there may be unlit obstacles on the carriageway.

Best practice is probably as with ordinary roads, to drive with full headlights and dip them if another vehicle is in front (in either lane) or approaching on the other carriageway. Note too that if you don't drive with full headlights, you may make things hairy for a car close behind you that is properly using dipped headlights (so as not to dazzle you).

ROTR on the subject of headlights lists situations where dipped lights should be used and says "Use main beam headlights in situations, places and times outside of those listed above."

motorwaycrazy

The road specs show that lighting is to be provided at junctions whether they are at grade or grade seperated or in a urban area. when you are out in the country you will never see motorway lighting, too expensive.

at least they put hi mast towers at junctions which are great for lighting up motorway on and off ramps as well as lanterns along roads leading on to them.


in other countries the lighting i have found not as good as Ireland.

as regards been dazzled by oncoming cars when a concrete barrier is in place - the old style of a hedge along the centre (when grown ) was to do away with been dazzled at least, but with these new barriers you have a good point. they should be high enough to stop dazzling at least on a flat stretch. But then again, if they build them too high they will be like garden walls.

flazio

My attitude to night motorway driving is drive on beams if it is safe to do so, if you can see oncoming lights or slower lights ahead, dip. The reason for this is that Irish Wildlife don't know to keep off the motorways and if there is a fox or badger or even a stray cat or dog on the road ahead, I want to know as quick as possible. I'm not stupid enough to assume the road ahead is clear because it's a motorway, I drive in a manner that lets me stop in the distance I can see to be clear, it's not up to others to keep the road ahead clear for me. Expect the unexpected.

SeanW

Agree with the posts above about blocking high beam lights between carriageways. I think the barriers should be higher and fuller to allow people to drive with full beams on without fear of impairng the view of motorists on the opposing carriageway.

As to the matter of street lighting, meh, the setup that exists seems to be good enough.