New Delta Moderator

ejg

I received the new Delta moderator from Roedale to test.
Last year at the IWA I had met the engineer from the University of Applied Sciences in Osnabrueck Germany who worked on the moderator project for and with Pete Lincoln of Roedale. The design they came up with was very close to an existing moderator. (Pete was involved in that developement too) Improvements were made with the internal baffel shape which had a noise reduction effect.
The delta mod comes in two caliber sizes, up to 6.5mm and up to 9.3mm calibers.
They can be delivered in three different materials, Steel, Stainless and Aluminium with various surface finishes.
What I find very interesting are the lightweight Aluminium moderators that can go down to around 200 gram weight. We all know in the meantime that Aluminium baffles can wear out or burn away bit by bit, especially with hefty calibers such as wsm, swift, 243, 270. Roedale have a solution to that by inserting the first two baffels made of stainless or steel into an aluminium moderator. Weight increases only very slightly but the lifespan of the moderator increases hugely.

Another really good point is that one can take a few baffels out if one prefers a short and lighter moderator, say for going into the hill. Of course the moderation goes down a bit, but your hearing will thank you.

More info on the roedale site.
http://www.roedale.de/epages/schalldaempfer.htm


If anyone wants to have a look at the mod, I'll bring one to the hcap shoot on Saturday in the midlands.

This is the delta V. (Five baffels in steel)



Or shortened for the hill. Very light too.



The guts...







edi

clivej

Edi see ya tomorrow all going well.

ejg

Size comparison between the old over barrel A-tec which was already quite a bit smaller than the T8 Reflex.
Delta 5 baffle (left) vs Atec, one can also see the barrel marks on the black barrel from an old PES stainless mod that weighed 1 kg !!!!




Delta 5 baffle on a 24" 243 remmy.



I have received prices that I can pass on in the meantime.
I'm not sure yet who will actually import the moderators.

These prices are approx, as the VAT difference might need correction.

4 Baffle Moderator, Suppressor. Price same for both.223-6.5x55 and 6.5 - 9.3mm version
Steel Parkerised. 200,- Euro
Stainless matt. 250,- Euro
Stainless TiAlN coated 325,- Euro
Aluminium Hard anodised. 4 alu baffle or 2 steel + 2 alu baffle 250,- Euro
Aluminium Hard anodised. 2 Stainless steel TiAlN coated baffles + 2 alu baffle 295,- Euro


5 Baffle Moderator, Suppressor. Price same for both.223-6.5x55 and 6.5 - 9.3mm version
Steel Parkerised. 215,- Euro
Stainless matt. 260,- Euro
Stainless TiAlN coated 340,- Euro
Aluminium Hard anodised. 4 alu baffle or 2 steel + 2 alu baffle 260,- Euro
Aluminium Hard anodised. 2 Stainless steel TiAlN coated baffles + 2 alu baffle 305,- Euro

Baffles can also be bought separately.

I would advise to go for the 5 baffle mod, as the price difference is smaller than the cost of a baffle and one has the possibility to leave a baffle out and make a 4 baffle mod if one likes. or a three, two baffle mod.

The aluminium mod with two steel baffles would be very light and practical for the hill. Weighing only around 275 grams for a 5 baffle mod.

For myself, I am very happy with the steel version 5.

edi

murph226

Thanks for the info Edi, prices seem good for what you get!

How does it perform compared to other mods you've used?

ejg

Murph,
I think they are as good as you can get. I've had some really crap moderators and some very effective ones. I've also designed my own, but
the advantages of the delta moderator are what hunters really need. Especially that one can just buy baffles like a lego system and put together what one needs. Quality from Roedale is always of a very high standard, taylored to 100% reliability.

Who is interested in some info on the moderators also about the tests can pop me an e-mail and I can post on the flyer.
psecomp@googlemail.com

edi

Vegeta

Great post edi

The lego type system of adding and removing baffles so easily and quickly is genius.

Have you done any testing to see if the rifle needs to be re-zeroed when switching between say 4 and 5 baffles?

Also, I always worry about putting aluminium and steel together, has there been any sort of quality testing carried out on these do you know? Put in a rig and fire 5000 rounds through it. Leave it in a high humidity environment for a while, that kind of thing

ejg

Vegeta, I'm sure a sporter barrel could be more sensitive to zero if one removes a baffle or two. I haven't tried yet how much it actually does change though. Moderator / no mod is about 2" on my rifles, so it might be 2 clicks or so out with one or two baffles removed.

If the threads are well greased with moly, graphite or teflon grease they seem to be fine and the threads shouldn't bond. We've had problems with Aluminium/Aluminium A-tec moderators before and couldn't get them apart again.
Time will tell.
We fired maybe 100 rounds through my 243, some 25 round strings with little cooling time. The mod was roasting but opens without problems.

Generally there are not too many complaints of worn out baffles with moderators, of any brand. One or two lads in the UK complained about alu baffles on an atec wearing after heavy use with 243 AI.
Roedale offers moderators up to 338 Lapua Magnum. The baffle design on the delta has quite a thick wall section in the hot zone, much thicker than some moderators that have stamped metal baffles.

edi

Cernunnos3

Hi ejg.
Good post, I'm looking for a new mod ans size and weight are most definately a big consideration you mention having compared the delta mod and A-Tec. Do you mean the new A-Tec CMM-4? Is the delta a over the barrell/reflex mod or is it all out front? If the latter then how much out front? Sorry if I missed that info in your post. The writings seem to be similar weight but the CMM is Alu whereas the delta has some steel baffels to compensate for powder burn right? Or would you reccomend buying the 5 baffel alu and the an extra steel baffel or 2 to mix and match? I use a 6.5x55 and it's in no way excessive on the barrell do you think the alu mod will be sufficient?? I am using a #1 t8 reflex mod presently and find it very heavy front end. I have recently been lucky to get permissions for more land including mountany(?) areas and fancy something lighter and cleanable, but mainly lighter.
Are these delta mods available at the mo? Where from? would you recommend the delat above othes??

Thanks for your thoughts and comments, and the thoughts and comments of and other posters who reply to this.

Cernunnos3.

roedale

Glad you got up and shooting Ejg. maybe i can answer some of the questions,

the CCM 4 and the Delta IV65-AL and 93-AL are of a very similar design, which isn't surprising considering the lineage and history behind the 2 companies. They are however 2 completely separate designs. The CCM4 is patent pending in Norway, the Delta IV is patent pending ( with a copyright protection already in place) in the EU.

the CCM4 is longer, wider and heavier, has different baffle geometry and isn't currentyl available with exchange stainless or chrom moly baffles as far as I am aware.

Parts are not interchangable between the 2 makes.

Both are excellent suppressors that do what they are designed to do. And certainly leaders in the current available along side a couple of others.
I won't claim that ours is the best, because some one will claim otherwise, and publishing test data of suppressors is a thing that the press are good at, stretching info to suit.
I think it will suffice to say that we tested all the models currently found in the advertisements in the gun mags ( with the exception of the quick silver titanium mod, George was reluctant to send us one, probably thought we'd test the titanium and see what they where using) by and large they all do what they are supposed too, some are better some are worse, some are good some are crap, some where a surprise or two. ( a good suppressor isn't nesseceraly the most expensive, but if what you want is bombproof full auto performance you do give up some other features like light weight and price and dB reduction) I'm using our design personaly, I'm marketing it and If there was a better design, I would be altering our design to be better than that.

The Delta baffle design is the result of 20 odd years trail and error, 2 years of frustration with imports and 12months study-R&D and scientific design and hard work in conjunction with a Technical University. It is simple but advanced, it works very efficiently and priced right.

I'm currently testing (on my .260rem) a 4 baffle alloy unit that weighs only 160gr ! but I'm not convinced that it will hold up when some muppet invarably puts a mod thats designed for up to .308ish calibers on a 338win mag or .338 lapua and the comes crying, or worse still blaiming and bitching, hence with a little over engineering and margin the 200gr alloy unit is honestly light enough.

The baffles will burn on the alloy Delta suppressor there is no way to suitably avoid it. but for a light weight, mountain rifle suppressor, occasional use stalking suppressor its fine.
Just dont go banging 50odd rds down the range every 1/2 hour and expect the baffles to not show the signs.

replacing the 1st 2 baffles with either steel, or stainless steel increases the life of the baffles by a long way. the alloy baffles do burn somewhat still, but the blast bieng taken by the 1st 2, this is limited. Certainly this is the best bet for an allround medium use supressor.

If you want to suppress a target rifle, tactical rifle or shoot a lot of rounds or a magnum caliber then the way to go is the all stainless or all parkerised steel version. the 200-250g more weight pays its dividends for such applications.

We will be introducing a telescopic rear end for the Delta in a couple of months, not that the larger expansion chamber to the rear brings any great reduction but by request, it shall happen. The baffles will fit either and all. And we are also looking at Titanium for a future production run., so you would be looking at a weight of 250gr for an all titanium Delta IV Ti.
( there are many grades of Titanium, and deciding on the right properties and content is paramount) this might be released at the IWA 2011. that is the current plan, of course they will be much more expensive.

Cernunnos3. for your 6.5x55 i would recomend the 2 stainless steel baffles.

if you got the Delta V-65-T-VA-AL ( 5 baffles-max 6.5mm bullet-TiAIN coated-Stainless-Alloy combination) you can drop back to 4 baffles, have a fiddle about with 1 or 2 stainless baffles and 4 or 5 baffles total as you desire and get the best combination for your usage. buy a spare alloy baffle and you've basicaly 3 moddy's in 1.


We launched these supressors at the IWA 2010.

Ive got parkerside steel models left on shelf.
the next batch incl the stainless and alloy parts are about 2 weeks off finish machining, plus a weeks TiAIN coating, Parkerising or Hard Anodising.

realisticaly speaking, you are looking at the end of May ( due to the bank holidays) but from the end of May (4 weeks) the things are in stock ready to ship.

We've had several enquiries from Eire ( thanks to Edi flashing them around no doubt) and the UK and intend on supplying dealers and end customers alike.

our webshop is upto date on the suppressors, the website is lagging a little, but that should be corrected in a few days,

price lists and info are available on request via email.

hope my post is ok, not realy wanting to advertise this way, ( thats what the gun mags and expensive adverts are for) but figured who better to answer questions then the bloke who had the Delta brain wave.

regards Pete

OldEyes

Are there any restrictions on importing a suppressor into Ireland? Do you need any paper work or can it just be posted to a private citizen?

roedale

There is an EU transfer form that you would get from the Garda.
As I understand it however, the garda haven't realy set how to legislate a silencer-suppressor-moderator.
For the UK, all that is needed is a photocopy of an FAC showing variation.
This would also suffice for Ireland, should the EU transfer form not be available for such an item.

Shipping direct to customer is no problem, shipping it RFD is easy, all we need is a copy of the RFD.

Shipping a unit that has no thread requires no paperwork as its not classed as a suppressor until its threaded ( beats me what the law makers have between thier ears)
Shipping a threaded unit would be done by licensed courier, non threaded by post.

Anyone who has a VAT registration number and can put one down as a part of business equipment can get the german tax off i guess. otherwise
its tax paid. There are no import charges into Ireland though, and shipping from here is fairly cheap.
shippings about 15€ and paperwork processing would be somewhere about the same, maybe 25€.

regards Pete

ejg

Pete you might also find a distributor in Ireland at some stage.
I think one would need someone who understands the "lego" and can put together the wish moderator for the customer. That could cut down on stock in the shop. As long as it is guaranteed that no 6.5mm baffle slips
into a 30 cal moderator. Maybe a check rod for the larger mod??
Or ship the larger mod with a check rod...to guarantee??

edi

Cernunnos3

Pete and Edi.
Thanks very much guys for the info, very interesting and helpful. I'm saving a shortcut of this topic on my desktop while I talk to my FO about the paperwork I need and his thoughts etc. Always better to start from here, I think anyway. Hope to be in touch via pm as and when I can procede further.

Following on from Edi's last post about an Irish retailer, I know a really sound and knowledgeable dealer in the midlands, I know we all know sound and knowledegable firearms dealers before I get into too much flak for that comment, who might be interested if thats any help? I know he regularly imports from the UK already. I can have a chat with him if you think it might help??

Thanks again.

Cernunnos3

thelurcher

That looks like a well thought out bit of kit - very interested in getting one - just resubmitted my licenses so once they come back I'll be on to one of ye.

I'm only after twigging who you are ejg - we've shot together before a few times - inside a fence with a few more guns than would be normal Good craic.

Looks familiar - but so much of it does -

ejg

Lurcher, it was some fun.
You had the crew cab?

edi

thelurcher

That's it. Will give you a shout some time especially about the T3 stocks.
Good Luck.

ormondprop

any update on these?
i'd be fairly interested in 1, and as i'd have to get my rifle threaded the handiest thing might be to post an un threaded one to me and i could get it threaded with my rifle

gunhappy_ie

roedale wrote: »

Glad you got up and shooting Ejg. maybe i can answer some of the questions,

the CCM 4 and the Delta IV65-AL and 93-AL are of a very similar design, which isn't surprising considering the lineage and history behind the 2 companies. They are however 2 completely separate designs. The CCM4 is patent pending in Norway, the Delta IV is patent pending ( with a copyright protection already in place) in the EU.

the CCM4 is longer, wider and heavier, has different baffle geometry and isn't currentyl available with exchange stainless or chrom moly baffles as far as I am aware.

Parts are not interchangable between the 2 makes.

Both are excellent suppressors that do what they are designed to do. And certainly leaders in the current available along side a couple of others.
I won't claim that ours is the best, because some one will claim otherwise, and publishing test data of suppressors is a thing that the press are good at, stretching info to suit.
I think it will suffice to say that we tested all the models currently found in the advertisements in the gun mags ( with the exception of the quick silver titanium mod, George was reluctant to send us one, probably thought we'd test the titanium and see what they where using) by and large they all do what they are supposed too, some are better some are worse, some are good some are crap, some where a surprise or two. ( a good suppressor isn't nesseceraly the most expensive, but if what you want is bombproof full auto performance you do give up some other features like light weight and price and dB reduction) I'm using our design personaly, I'm marketing it and If there was a better design, I would be altering our design to be better than that.

The Delta baffle design is the result of 20 odd years trail and error, 2 years of frustration with imports and 12months study-R&D and scientific design and hard work in conjunction with a Technical University. It is simple but advanced, it works very efficiently and priced right.

I'm currently testing (on my .260rem) a 4 baffle alloy unit that weighs only 160gr ! but I'm not convinced that it will hold up when some muppet invarably puts a mod thats designed for up to .308ish calibers on a 338win mag or .338 lapua and the comes crying, or worse still blaiming and bitching, hence with a little over engineering and margin the 200gr alloy unit is honestly light enough.

The baffles will burn on the alloy Delta suppressor there is no way to suitably avoid it. but for a light weight, mountain rifle suppressor, occasional use stalking suppressor its fine.
Just dont go banging 50odd rds down the range every 1/2 hour and expect the baffles to not show the signs.

replacing the 1st 2 baffles with either steel, or stainless steel increases the life of the baffles by a long way. the alloy baffles do burn somewhat still, but the blast bieng taken by the 1st 2, this is limited. Certainly this is the best bet for an allround medium use supressor.

If you want to suppress a target rifle, tactical rifle or shoot a lot of rounds or a magnum caliber then the way to go is the all stainless or all parkerised steel version. the 200-250g more weight pays its dividends for such applications.

We will be introducing a telescopic rear end for the Delta in a couple of months, not that the larger expansion chamber to the rear brings any great reduction but by request, it shall happen. The baffles will fit either and all. And we are also looking at Titanium for a future production run., so you would be looking at a weight of 250gr for an all titanium Delta IV Ti.
( there are many grades of Titanium, and deciding on the right properties and content is paramount) this might be released at the IWA 2011. that is the current plan, of course they will be much more expensive.

Cernunnos3. for your 6.5x55 i would recomend the 2 stainless steel baffles.

if you got the Delta V-65-T-VA-AL ( 5 baffles-max 6.5mm bullet-TiAIN coated-Stainless-Alloy combination) you can drop back to 4 baffles, have a fiddle about with 1 or 2 stainless baffles and 4 or 5 baffles total as you desire and get the best combination for your usage. buy a spare alloy baffle and you've basicaly 3 moddy's in 1.


We launched these supressors at the IWA 2010.

Ive got parkerside steel models left on shelf.
the next batch incl the stainless and alloy parts are about 2 weeks off finish machining, plus a weeks TiAIN coating, Parkerising or Hard Anodising.

realisticaly speaking, you are looking at the end of May ( due to the bank holidays) but from the end of May (4 weeks) the things are in stock ready to ship.

We've had several enquiries from Eire ( thanks to Edi flashing them around no doubt) and the UK and intend on supplying dealers and end customers alike.

our webshop is upto date on the suppressors, the website is lagging a little, but that should be corrected in a few days,

price lists and info are available on request via email.

hope my post is ok, not realy wanting to advertise this way, ( thats what the gun mags and expensive adverts are for) but figured who better to answer questions then the bloke who had the Delta brain wave.

regards Pete

I like ... Alot.... only problem is that I require it for my SPAS 15.... Could this job be undertaken ?

Tackleberrywho

1. Remington 700, €1100
2. Mod, €280
3. Licence, €80
4. Licence left into GS to get magic "S" on it free.

Getting new licence in post with No "s" on it after leaving it in to get an "S" on it.
Priceless............

For everything else there is Mastercard:rolleyes:

ejg

Gunhappy, no clue what a spas 15 is, but if you are looking for a mod that can take full auto then I'm sure there is a modell available or in the pipeline. send Pete an e-mail support@webshop.roedale.de

edi

ejg

ormondprop wrote: »

any update on these?
i'd be fairly interested in 1, and as i'd have to get my rifle threaded the handiest thing might be to post an un threaded one to me and i could get it threaded with my rifle

I'll be getting an ultralight to test in the next week.
If you are in the area you could have a look at it.
edi

dCorbus

I like ... Alot.... only problem is that I require it for my SPAS 15.... Could this job be undertaken ?

Are you in Ireland?
Wow, gunhappy_ie, you actually got a spas15 licenced? Fairplay.

And now you want it moderated? Hmmmmmm....:D;)

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the Franchi Spas15:



Or am I mixing up my firearms? I'm amazed that you got your application through for this, to be honest - but nice one all the same if you did!

gunhappy_ie

dCorbus wrote: »

Wow, gunhappy_ie, you actually got a spas15 licenced? Fairplay.

And now you want it moderated? Hmmmmmm....:D;)

Yes .... it goes very well with my SPAS 12...........


:P I wish hahaha ................

Ya lucky to get it .... reflex suppressors make a can for them but them but they done export the can ..... so i was gonna make my own......

This delta syppressor might be what i was lookin for though

gunhappy_ie

dCorbus wrote: »

Are you in Ireland?
Wow, gunhappy_ie, you actually got a spas15 licenced? Fairplay.

And now you want it moderated? Hmmmmmm....:D;)

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the Franchi Spas15:



Or am I mixing up my firearms? I'm amazed that you got your application through for this, to be honest - but nice one all the same if you did!

Oh..... the civilain model doesnt have a folding stock.

when i get time though ... im making a pic tail for the top to mount my Aimpoint, DuraCoat and put on an AR 15 stock ( so i can use cheek pieces with the added hight of th scope)

dCorbus

In that case, you must have a CS who's either:

a) Extremely Generous
b) Extremely Gun-Friendly
c) Extremely Not-up-on-his-guidelines
d) Extremely Not-connected-to-the-Interweb

Or any combination of the above!:D

Oh..... the civilain model doesnt have a folding stock.

There's a civilian model?!:rolleyes:;):D