Dicussion on the current rule against the use of DD DS DH ect

Das Kitty

bogtotty wrote: »

Those of us who use these acronyms generally don't go around saying dear/darling son/daughter or whatever. Just as I would hope that those who use lol etc don't say "laugh out loud" when responding to their friends' jokes down the pub. Otherwise it wouldn't be a sick bucket that was being requested but a heavy blunt object.

Oh I know! But that's my point you'd never say darling son, but you may say "I laughed out loud" or in fact actually laugh aloud at a joke. You probably wouldn't roll on the floor of the pub though, a bit sticky!

littlebug

I came across the whole dd /ds thing 8 years ago on American parenting websites. I don't (think I ) use them but nor do they bother me particularly. I can see how people could get into the habit of using them but I wouldn't see it as a punishable offence. txtspk drives me nuts but I don't wouldn't see them as the same thing at all.

As an aside I'm pretty sure I've lolled in real life.

simu

Do I detect a hint of misogyny in all this hatred of d- acronyms and condemnation of other parenting sites? :-p

Deliverance

An example:

My DD went out today with my DH, we LOL all day. The DD did something so funny that I ended up RMAOL (rolling on floor laughing or something) never could get that one right: it was so LOL. FYI I am not a WUM I am a regular internet user and not a Troll I am aware though of the acronyms and stuff that goes down with the net language.

Sometimes the shorthand stuff can be hard to decipher, when I see a person using lots of it then I tend to slightly ignore posts i.e. personally I have a little less respect for these posts as a more mature person with kids i.e. a parent.

I can get the shorthand due to the context and all that but I still use, prefer to actually write verbosely because it is simply better for me and it is no harm really.

As khannie implied well: for future reference this type of shorthand may lead too to much shorthand stuff which could potentially end up like phone txt type speak and that was the point that had to be taken on board. Theayadal led the call well. I'm glad that Khannie progressed in a learning type way and changed his opinion after some thought.

I find that an impressive and encouraging trait in a mod.

Personally I think that as others put it, that it is not a huge issue it should be tolerated to a point but if posters start using the 'acronyms' a lot to the point of making the forum more exclusive to experienced users then that could be a problem.

I think though that what has been done so far is more than enough to make the point. Not the biggest of issues but still nicely argued out via debate. I think the nay to text speak party are winning in this case though;)

Deliverance

simu wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of misogyny in all this hatred of d- acronyms and condemnation of other parenting sites? :-p

In once sense that could be conceivable but I think that a better point is being put across with regards to quality of service.

Khannie

simu wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of misogyny in all this hatred of d- acronyms and condemnation of other parenting sites? :-p

Not in the slightest. I just like the comparative balance here.

lindtee

I would use the other site mentioned here, and to be honest the use of dd,ds,dh etc really annoys me. It just sounds so silly. I don't use those acronyms myself. In fact in the past I have posted a few threads on the other site about how I hate them but I never got much support:(:(

Nevyn

I've just had to point out in the pregnancy forum that NMH = National Maternity Hospital = Holles Street! after getting a pm from a poster who was confused by it

I have never infracted or banned for it, I have always just asked can posters please not use it and occasionally edited posts, I have to say you lot have been wonderful about it and I have never had snotty pms or guff back when I have asked.

simu wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of misogyny in all this hatred of d- acronyms and condemnation of other parenting sites? :-p

They are a different style of site and are stand alone sites, the idea for this forum was that boardsies no matter what forum they joined up to use or which forums they are a memeber of the community may one day wish to or find they are going to be parents
and will want to get help and advice from other boardsies.

Yes we have had people sign up to here first and foremost and some of them have been happy to see that this forum is different from some of the other sites which tend to be female dominated.

I don't see how not liking those sites equates to hating women :P

Ickle Magoo

The DS, DD, DH thing doesn't really bother me in terms of understanding because I've posted on other parenting sites & I know the majority of the short-hand used but on other sites it has certainly gotten to the stage where stickies are required with a list of the short-hand and acronyms in most common usage and for new posters, that must be a huge turn off.

One of the reasons I like boards parenting forum is it takes the best of helpful, friendly, informative parenting sites while managing to steer well away from the horrible cliques and over-moderation, often self-moderation of anything approaching an honest discussion combined with an under-moderation of bitchiness and bullying.

If staying well away from the pet colloquialisms of those kind of sites means this one stays as is, open to all to contribute and easily read by all, then I'm all for a ban on them. *thumbs up mods*

I'm a woman, with a daughter, so I hope the above is not construed as misogynistic. :eek:

LashingLady

Thaedydal wrote: »

I've just had to point out in the pregnancy forum that NMH = National Maternity Hospital = Holles Street! after getting a pm from a poster who was confused by it :P

I was a poster on that thread so saw the correction. The only thing I noticed is that all the terms that had been abbreviated in that particular thread: NMH, CS, VBAC etc had all been written in longhand earlier in the thread, albeit without putting the abbreviation in brackets directly afterwards.

I know that this one is difficult to strike a balance but I think it would be very ambitious to expect that newcomers to a parenting would be able to understand everything straightaway and that doesn't just apply to acronymns. For example some one might have to ask what meconium or colostrom means if they are just mentioned in a thread without prior explaination. It doesn't necessarily mean that they would feel excluded though

Just my two cents:)

Nevyn

Thing is those are medical terms and anyone who goes through the process of having a baby ends up having to learn a hell of a lot but those terms are standard in the world until dd ds ect and with there being such a learning curve I don't see why we should be adding to it.

parsi

Sleepy wrote: »

My main argument would be that they make the poster sound like such a simpering twit I just can't take their post seriously when they use them.

edit: why is it reasonable to ban these acronyms but not others? I'd argue that it keeps the ethos of the forum one of sensible advice and discussion rather than giggling nonsense (like some of the other parenting sites like RC etc.) which are so 'girly' they're off-putting for any man and, for want of a better description 'pink girly' women.

+1 - they are annoying affectations and for me always conjure up an image of a poster who is determined that her (!) child and her (insert anything else) is always right and whoever can't see that must be clueless, a troll, a bully , a supporter of bad things.

simu

Thaedydal wrote: »

Thing is those are medical terms and anyone who goes through the process of having a baby ends up having to learn a hell of a lot but those terms are standard in the world until dd ds ect and with there being such a learning curve I don't see why we should be adding to it.

These terms are part of online parenting culture now and tbh, it's a bit patronising to think new parents would find them a huge challenge.

parsi wrote:

+1 - they are annoying affectations and for me always conjure up an image of a poster who is determined that her (!) child and her (insert anything else) is always right and whoever can't see that must be clueless, a troll, a bully , a supporter of bad things.

Did you ever think you might be wrong in your perception? Do you really think the thousands of parents who use those acronyms on other Irish and international parenting forums are like that?

Ickle Magoo wrote:

If staying well away from the pet colloquialisms of those kind of sites means this one stays as is, open to all to contribute and easily read by all, then I'm all for a ban on them.

Excessively rigid rules on the use of well known acronyms will alienate people. Think about it... you post here looking for advise on some child-related problem and when you return, instead of finding helpful answers, you find you have been admonished for using "dd" or "ds" or had you post edited.

All sorts of acronyms are used frequently all over boards.ie - why pick on parenting acronyms because some users find them too cutsey for their taste?

Nevyn

simu wrote: »

These terms are part of online parenting culture now and tbh, it's a bit patronising to think new parents would find them a huge challenge.

I don't think they are an online standard at all and even if they seem to be I don't see that as a valid reason why they have to be a standard here.
I see it as a dumbing down this forum does not need and this place as a safe haven for those who can't stand them.

simu wrote: »

Did you ever think you might be wrong in your perception? Do you really think the thousands of parents who use those acronyms on other Irish and international parenting forums are like that?

I have seem some awful bullying on 3 sites which use them and for me the use of them reflects the tone of the site and the attitude of those using them and this forum is not the same as those stand alone parenting sites.

simu wrote: »

Excessively rigid rules on the use of well known acronyms will alienate people. Think about it... you post here looking for advise on some child-related problem and when you return, instead of finding helpful answers, you find you have been admonished for using "dd" or "ds" or had you post edited.

I think that is unfair, the majority of posters will always try and be helpful and friendly and I have never seen any poster round on anyone for using those codes.

simu wrote: »

All sorts of acronyms are used frequently all over boards.ie - why pick on parenting acronyms because some users find them too cutsey for their taste?

This forum is not like those other sites, if you wish to use those others sites fine, knock yourself out, but here is not there and it has never been and I don't think it's fair to demand that this forum conform to what is the standard elsewhere esp when it will alienate posters and members of the community here.

If the over whelming majority of posters wanted those codes and if I was out voted by the rest of the mods of this forum then I would resgin and let people have the forum they want, but do we need a forum which is a clone of those other sites?

I asked for this forum to be set up as I could not bear the other online irish parenting sites. Mind you these days I find my personal questions and discussions are mostly on sites with pertain to parenting children on the autistic spectrum but I still try and be as active and helpful here as I can.

cbyrd

i HATE text speak... i cannot understand it.. it's slows me down.. call me old fashioned but i love to read and i like to understand what i'm reading..:D
when i first started reading posts here i was like a wally wondering what dd ds dh was even oh caught me out had to ask my husband... needless to say i got rollie eyes..
my older brother who has a 17 year old step-daughter texts me in text speak... it takes me ages to decipher it and usually send it back with please translate on the end of it..:rolleyes:

Ickle Magoo

simu wrote: »

Excessively rigid rules on the use of well known acronyms will alienate people. Think about it... you post here looking for advise on some child-related problem and when you return, instead of finding helpful answers, you find you have been admonished for using "dd" or "ds" or had you post edited.

Who said anything about excessively rigid rules? When someone posts in text speak they are just asked not to, no biggy, no telling off, just a reminder of the particular rules of boards. All forums have their little nuances, anyone using them enough to know DD & DS will know that, I can't imagine anyone being overly upset at getting a heads up to the rules on a forum they are new to.

simu wrote: »

All sorts of acronyms are used frequently all over boards.ie - why pick on parenting acronyms because some users find them too cutsey for their taste?

I don't find them cutesy, I think they are quite handy actually but I don't think this is really about ease of typing, it's about making sure anyone can jump into the forum and know what is being said and contribute, no? I can't think of any other acronym commonly used on boards that you must have specialised knowledge from other sites to understand...

simu

Thaedydal wrote: »

I don't think they are an online standard at all and even if they seem to be I don't see that as a valid reason why they have to be a standard here.
I see it as a dumbing down this forum does not need and this place as a safe haven for those who can't stand them.

They're a widely-used convention rather than a standard. I'm not saying their usage should be obligatory but rather that some users will chose to use them - is that really so terrible?

I have seem some awful bullying on 3 sites which use them and for me the use of them reflects the tone of the site and the attitude of those using them and this forum is not the same as those stand alone parenting sites.

They're not just used on those sites - I've seen them on UK and US sites too, for example. Bullying is commonplace on the internet and there's plenty of it on boards too. I think you're being a bit harsh on those other forums but whatevs - subjective opinions and all that.

I think that is unfair, the majority of posters will always try and be helpful and friendly and I have never seen any poster round on anyone for using those codes.

Well, presumably, they would be rounded on in some manner if the usage of the acronyms in question is banned.

This forum is not like those other sites, if you wish to use those others sites fine, knock yourself out, but here is not there and it has never been and I don't think it's fair to demand that this forum conform to what is the standard elsewhere esp when it will alienate posters and members of the community here.

And it's fair to force users of boards to conform to your idea of what sort of acronyms are ok to use on the parenting forum? You want to attract more traffic to these boards on the one hand but you want to control it and keep it in line with how you think it should be... tricky, to say the least.

If the over whelming majority of posters wanted those codes and if I was out voted by the rest of the mods of this forum then I would resgin and let people have the forum they want, but do we need a forum which is a clone of those other sites?

The odd "dd" or "ds" won't change the forum fundamentally but an outright ban would increase the work of the mods (you would have to rebuke offenders etc) and to little effect imo.

I asked for this forum to be set up as I could not bear the other online irish parenting sites. Mind you these days I find my personal questions and discussions are mostly on sites with pertain to parenting children on the autistic spectrum but I still try and be as active and helpful here as I can.

Ok, you started it and as one of the mods, you have a hand in guiding it but beware of overmodding!

simu

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Who said anything about excessively rigid rules? When someone posts in text speak they are just asked not to, no biggy, no telling off, just a reminder of the particular rules of boards. All forums have their little nuances, anyone using them enough to know DD & DS will know that, I can't imagine anyone being overly upset at getting a heads up to the rules on a forum they are new to.


I don't find them cutesy, I think they are quite handy actually but I don't think this is really about ease of typing, it's about making sure anyone can jump into the forum and know what is being said and contribute, no?

So people won't be able to jump in because they will have to get used to the "little nuances" first. No one (trolls apart) likes to get bollocked for a first post.

I can't think of any other acronym commonly used on boards that you must have specialised knowledge from other sites to understand...

tbh

Nevyn

simu wrote: »

Well, presumably, they would be rounded on in some manner if the usage of the acronyms in question is banned.

The convention of using those codes has never been allowed on this forum,
that is the currently state of play, people have always been encouraged not to use them. To suggest that all of a sudden posters who use them will be subjected to punitive draconian measures is frankly laughable and disingenuous.

simu wrote: »

And it's fair to force users of boards to conform to your idea of what sort of acronyms are ok to use on the parenting forum? You want to attract more traffic to these boards on the one hand but you want to control it and keep it in line with how you think it should be... tricky, to say the least.

As you can see from posts in this thread I am not the only one who feels this way about those codes, The forum has been doing well all by it's self with out anyone needing to try an attract more traffic, if something will attract more traffic but impact on the currently community in a negative way then I would not be in favour of it.

simu wrote: »

The odd "dd" or "ds" won't change the forum fundamentally but an outright ban would increase the work of the mods (you would have to rebuke offenders etc) and to little effect imo.

There has always been a ban on this, this is nothing new.
It has never added any extra 'work' as far as I am concerned, it is very rarely I have to mention that the codes along with text speak are not permitted.
It's seemed to have worked fine until now.

simu wrote: »

Ok, you started it and as one of the mods, you have a hand in guiding it but beware of overmodding!

How is opening a thread for a discussion on this and saying if the community really wanted it I would not stand in the way over modding?

simu wrote: »

So people won't be able to jump in because they will have to get used to the "little nuances" first. No one (trolls apart) likes to get bollocked for a first post.

As far as I know no one has ever gotten a bollocking for a first post ever on this forum.
Oh and I am aware of discussions about this thread happening on two other sites and I can't bring myself to care
about what people post about me on other sites as they don't have the fortitude to address me with their issues.

simu

I still haven't been convinced of any good reason for the ban tbh. But I'm bowing out of this thread because I've wasted enough of my time on it.

Ickle Magoo

simu wrote: »

So people won't be able to jump in because they will have to get used to the "little nuances" first. No one (trolls apart) likes to get bollocked for a first post.

There is a general rule on boards about text speak, why is it okay to ask someone not to speak in text speak when they are pouring their heart on PI, but a question about nappies getting a request not to use short-hand is going to be deemed a "bollocking"?

simu wrote: »

tbh

I don't understand. "tbh" is an internationally accepted acronym, it's not forum nor topic specific. The demographic of boards is different to the demographic of the majority of parenting forums and I think that needs to be recognised and respected.

parsi

simu wrote: »

Did you ever think you might be wrong in your perception? Do you really think the thousands of parents who use those acronyms on other Irish and international parenting forums are like that?

My perception is based on the content of posts in fora that are deluged by DD, DS, DH etc.

Broadly speaking I associate these acronyms with a particular type of poster.

That's the way it is for me. Of course maybe because I disagree I'm automatically a misogynist...

Sleepy

simu, try to look at it from the average man's perspective. The phrases the acronyms refer to are ott text speak that the vast majority of men (and many women) will not be able to take seriously and read as the preserve of the vacuous blondes we see on The Hills (or read about in Ross O' Carroll Kelly novels). Irish men are already undergoing a crisis of sexual identity, as a group we've seen the role our fathers took in raising a family eroded. In some ways that's a good thing, studies are already showing that modern men spend far more time with our kids than our fathers did.

Many men of our generation are already feeling emasculated enough without turning a resource that promotes some of the positive aspects of our changing role in society into an overly "feminine" environment.

Maybe there are some people out there who'll be put off by this forum if we're negative towards the dd/ds/dh type acronyms but there are already resources out there to cater for those people and I'd be of the belief that their number is probably a lot lower than the number of those who'll be more put off by them. If I can be so bold as to sexually stereotype, without being accused of misogynism, I think you're putting the considerations of a relatively small subset of (potential) female posters ahead of the vast majority of their male counterparts.

Deliverance

So what is the bottom line folks? It is there for those that have read this thread and have been a part of this forum. In my opinion: get over it for the pedantic people, Enjoy the forum for the overusers of shorthand but get used to the aforementioned etiquette (not enforced but expected).

Anyone can join the party, Get some advise, make the odd opinion and get an equally odd reply etc. That is the forum ya know?

All this shorthand argument stuff has run it's course, people get it. It has been got. Time to face the facts: this thread is getting v.boring because everyone has got the point. Time to move on.

Unless of course my DW disagrees;)

di11on

My opinion on this is that I do not see what purpose the rule serves.

I too hate text speak and I'm glad it's not allowed but I don't think you can reasonably classify DD, DS etc. as text speak - more like a short hand convention/acronym used universally on parenting related sites across the net.

If the only reason is to differentiate the Boards.ie parenting forum from "more frivolous parenting sites" then I don't think it's a good reason and the unwelcoming effect it will have will far outweigh any benefits, in my opinion.

delly

tbh, its a shame to see so many people upset by what I would see as a fairly harmless trait. I don't use them myself, but I had always seen them as a way of avoiding the use of your childs name while also not refering to 'daughter' five times in a post. I personally use 'delly jr.' if retelling a story or similar and that works fine for me.

At the end of the day we are all here doing the same job or at least hope to be doing it soon enough, and if the use of said abbreviations takes away from that then i'm a bit miffed.

Khannie

Right....I think this has run its course. There's no new information being added so I'm stepping up to the plate to make a decision or we'll be here all year.

My reasoned take on it is this:

While some people have no problem with them and / or can't see why they shouldn't be allowed, there are quite a few active members of the community who fairly seriously dislike them. As such I think the best course of action is just to be nice to those people and just press ahead as we are. Nobody is going to get rapped over the knuckles for using them. They'll just be gently asked not to.

If anyone has a real problem with this decision, let me know by PM.