FAS apprentices overpaid!!

noodler

550e a week seems incredibly high to me.

Outkast_IRE

I am at the end of my apprenticeship , as far as im concerened if the apprentice is employed and working full time throughout it then he is entitled to the appropriate WAGE while attending the training .

However if the apprentice is unemployed he should just recieve the usual dole or whatever maybe with extra for travel etc .

And how easy it is for people to forget that for the first year an apprentice works a 40 hour week for €200 his second year is round the €320 mark .

manic mailman

Head The Wall wrote: »

Excuse me, could you please inform us of what you paid to receive your training from FAS. Maybe your lecturers salaries and the use of the facilities just fell out of the sky. The same as the allowance and expenses you received while attending

To be fair erictheviking1 makes a valid point somewhat, put nearly anyone i know in my class is paying their own way through college, or at least contributing a lot of money that they are making in part-time employment so it's still a bit rich for FAS apprentices like my friend amongst others to be getting (what I view as) exorbitant payment.

Yet to contradict myself even further, they do get hard hours and get called out to different parts of the country on occasion, footing the transport costs themselves, which in that case would be big enough, but €500 + still isn't justified.

erictheviking1

Head The Wall wrote: »

Excuse me, could you please inform us of what you paid to receive your training from FAS. Maybe your lecturers salaries and the use of the facilities just fell out of the sky. The same as the allowance and expenses you received while attending

All paid for by my employer and I paid him back tenfold with the amount of work I put into his business....and he knows it.
As for any cost to FAS or the taxpayer I've also paid that back and some
in my 28 years of being a taxpayer. (Started apprenticeship at 15)

Vain

Im a apprentice carpenter I done my 6th phase last march and was on something like 440euro a week, I would of been on the high mark of 550euro or so but i hadnt enough weeks with a employer done so was on the lower rate. Found that a bit unfair as the lads that had work up to having to go to fas were getting the full amount while lads who had lost jobs didnt have enough weeks on site done so werent getting the 550.

Yes its alot of money for 10 weeks while in collage. Not much use to me now i should be only 10 weeks left to complete on site to get my papers but because I lost my job im sort 1 year site work before I can get my papers like alot of other people.

So which means im now 5 years into a 4 year course with a year left which doesnt look like im going to get that do any time soon. As i cant get my papers I cant leave the country to try else where for a job. So i just spent the last 5 years of my life on a course I cant finish. Ya the 440euro was good while I was getting it but i have nothing to show for my time i put into this apprenticeship at least if i went to collage i would have my degree or what ever.

Also with the down turn in the economy less and less people are doing apprenticeship so over the next few years not many will be getting the amount of money as the amount of people that are currently finishing off their apprenticeship.

Head The Wall

erictheviking1 wrote: »

All paid for by my employer and I paid him back tenfold with the amount of work I put into his business....and he knows it.
As for any cost to FAS or the taxpayer I've also paid that back and some
in my 28 years of being a taxpayer. (Started apprenticeship at 15)

What are you on about, pretty much everyone that works pays tax.

You didn't pay fees while in FAS so quit harping on about students getting a free ride, not every student gets a grant either. The ones that don't end up having to foot their own education expenses and still have to pay tax here afterwards

later12

Vain wrote: »

Im a apprentice carpenter I done my 6th phase last march and was on something like 440euro a week, I would of been on the high mark of 550euro or so but i hadnt enough weeks with a employer done so was on the lower rate.

Why on Earth are the national employment agency (who must surely be aware that there are a wealth of fully qualified carpenters already at home on the dole making childrens' dinners and doing the housework who cannot even find jobs), actually paying this sort of money to train even more carpenters and related apprentices, including those in construction? They're all going straight for the Dole or to the airport anyway.

This makes no sense.

erictheviking1

Head The Wall wrote: »

What are you on about, pretty much everyone that works pays tax.

You didn't pay fees while in FAS so quit harping on about students getting a free ride, not every student gets a grant either. The ones that don't end up having to foot their own education expenses and still have to pay tax here afterwards

What are you on about?
Touch a nerve there did I?
I may not have paid fees personally, but then again the state only had to pay for a years training for me, then 1 day a week for 3 years. In return the state got a hard working taxpayer who has and will continue to contribute to this country for a lifetime. Good investment? I think so!
Students in my opinion do a degree or whatever, turn up for classes when they feel like it, expect twice as much money as any apprentice at the end of it and still have the nerve to say an apprentice is overpaid:rolleyes:. Totally uninformed! As I've already said apprentices do 4 days a week of actual work and believe me they Work! in my day it was for peanuts but I certainly don't begrudge any of them having decent pay or conditions.
Compared to apprentices students do get a free ride!

PS I don't even mind students getting their free ride so much. What really bothers me is they come on here rubbishing and criticising and making smartass comments about working people.
What I find ironic is the fact that they are probably posting the comments about them being overpaid etc. using college wifi paid for by the workers taxes. Only in Ireland!

kippy

later10 wrote: »

Why on Earth are the national employment agency (who must surely be aware that there are a wealth of fully qualified carpenters already at home on the dole making childrens' dinners and doing the housework who cannot even find jobs), actually paying this sort of money to train even more carpenters and related apprentices, including those in construction? They're all going straight for the Dole or to the airport anyway.

This makes no sense.

Indeed, however there are more than the national employment agency tied up in this and who ultimately are responsible for fixing rates.
The trades unions, construction industry representative bodies, department of trade and employment or whatever those are called now, department of finance and indeed a few other interested parties, as well as a few variable figures are all tied up in the negotiation of these training allowances.

Anyway, thats neither here nor there, you are correct, however one could also make the point about so many more training and educational courses managed by colleges, ie why train more people in certain fields (at great expense, maybe not via wages but other means) when there are very obviously no jobs there for those fields.

There are a lot of differing agencies, quangos and bodies (as well as vested interest representative groups of various professional fields and indeed "heavy skills fields" responsible for so many critical educational and employment based strategic decisions, is it no wonder we have no joined up and coherent thinking and policy on training and education in this country.

PS I don't even mind students getting their free ride so much. What really bothers me is they come on here rubbishing and criticising and making smartass comments about working people.
What I find ironic is the fact that they are probably posting the comments about them being overpaid etc. using college wifi paid for by the workers taxes. Only in Ireland!

Not actually "Only in Ireland" but thats not here nor there.
Economies and societies rely on a lot of people to support a lot of other people. These can be via swings and roundabouts and the support being "received" versus that being "given" changes depending on age and what you are doing with your life.

Yep, there are major difference between a four year "apprenticeship" and a 4 year degree in college, the aims of both are essentially different as well. To try equate them is pointless. Its as pointless as the public versus private debate and takes from the real reasons we have issues in these sectors.

Head The Wall

erictheviking1 wrote: »

What are you on about?
Touch a nerve there did I?
I may not have paid fees personally, but then again the state only had to pay for a years training for me, then 1 day a week for 3 years. In return the state got a hard working taxpayer who has and will continue to contribute to this country for a lifetime. Good investment? I think so!
Students in my opinion do a degree or whatever, turn up for classes when they feel like it, expect twice as much money as any apprentice at the end of it and still have the nerve to say an apprentice is overpaid:rolleyes:. Totally uninformed! As I've already said apprentices do 4 days a week of actual work and believe me they Work! in my day it was for peanuts but I certainly don't begrudge any of them having decent pay or conditions.
Compared to apprentices students do get a free ride!

PS I don't even mind students getting their free ride so much. What really bothers me is they come on here rubbishing and criticising and making smartass comments about working people.
What I find ironic is the fact that they are probably posting the comments about them being overpaid etc. using college wifi paid for by the workers taxes. Only in Ireland!

You didn't touch any nerve and you don't need to tell me about what work is.

I was just reminding you that while you are/were in FAS you were also getting subsidised by taxpayers/govt the very same as students. Whether a student that graduates or a FAS apprentice ever works in this country and pays tax back into the system is irrelevant. If ye left the state still has to bear the cost of training both.

I'll take it from your statement that you haven't attended a full time college course so less of the clichéd assumptions about what's actually involved

YouTookMyName

The Phases in fas are fairly intense and it is tough going. The wages are fairly good but it's a long day and week in class rooms and a workshop.

AlekSmart

Students in my opinion do a degree or whatever, turn up for classes when they feel like it, expect twice as much money as any apprentice at the end of it and still have the nerve to say an apprentice is overpaid. Totally uninformed! As I've already said apprentices do 4 days a week of actual work and believe me they Work! in my day it was for peanuts but I certainly don't begrudge any of them having decent pay or conditions.
Compared to apprentices students do get a free ride!

PS I don't even mind students getting their free ride so much. What really bothers me is they come on here rubbishing and criticising and making smartass comments about working people.
What I find ironic is the fact that they are probably posting the comments about them being overpaid etc. using college wifi paid for by the workers taxes. Only in Ireland!

I have to sympathise with erictheviking in this discussion as I feel the responses offer a very real insight into exactly why modern post-Tiger Ireland is particularly poorly suited to facilitating it`s own recovery.

The bubble times have left us a to satisfy a generation who equate "Hewers of Wood and Drawers of Water" with foreign accents whilst commensurately equating Deep and High Thinking with the native sassy young graduate (or potential graduate).

eriktheviking,I think the Nordic fjords may be the best place for your talents....:)

johnnyjb

What i dont understand is why do all students have to move out of home and across the country to college.Oh ya so they can get pissed and go crazy:D. I hate hearing about living costs from students.

And before anyone tells me about not being able to get into their local college and needed to move to cork or dublin etc.. from the sticks, well then they should of studied harder.

Regarding travel expenses, Apps that are sent around the country have no input whatsoever.I was sent to clare ,people from clare were sent to my local fas centre. Students seem to think its an obligation to move to the "lights"

Why not stay at home and be a bit economical.

manic mailman

johnnyjb wrote: »

What i dont understand is why do all students have to move out of home and across the country to college.Oh ya so they can get pissed and go crazy:D. I hate hearing about living costs from students.

And before anyone tells me about not being able to get into their local college and needed to move to cork or dublin etc.. from the sticks, well then they should of studied harder.

Regarding travel expenses, Apps that are sent around the country have no input whatsoever.I was sent to clare ,people from clare were sent to my local fas centre. Students seem to think its an obligation to move to the "lights"

Why not stay at home and be a bit economical.

This is definitely a big attitude problem that (in my experience) many students have. I commute myself and even if i did live further from home, i wouldn't move out unless it was really impractical for me to have to commute to college. However I know numerous amounts of friends, acquaintances, etc that have moved out for the sake of it rather than because they had to, often getting their parents to foot the bill (or most of it).
But then some of these are paying their own way in terms of registration fee's so...

I think there is an attitude of excess that developed over the boom years that parents passed on to their sons/daughters and helped this foster this attitude of entitlement to do what they please, practicality be damned!

I know one person who chose a course the other side of the country specifically so to 'get away' from home, even though there was many equivalents he could have chosen nearby in Dublin. Kind of sums up what you've mentioned here. Maybe i've just happened to come across a lot of impractical folk!

Head The Wall

People have always moved away from Home to go to college, its not something new since the boom started.

johnnyjb

Head The Wall wrote: »

People have always moved away from Home to go to college, its not something new since the boom started.

I know and apprentices have been paid for off the job placement before the boom too

manic mailman

Head The Wall wrote: »

People have always moved away from Home to go to college, its not something new since the boom started.

Yes, but that wasn't the point my post was making. I am merely pointing out the attitude that many students have and the fact that some need to cop on to themselves. (This is all from personal experience, i'm not claiming it's true for the whole country but i've come across far too many students that have this attitude).

Head The Wall

Yes and a certain amount of schoolkids, apprentices, graduates, adults etc need to cop on and have an attitude. It's not particular to students. I'm not a student by the way

YouTookMyName

Rates are cut now. Down 7.5%

Tea drinker

Fas was costing a billion per year back in 2008 or so, what's it down to now?

Someone posted that at the end of the apprenticeship there weren't even jobs so what's the point in wasting money training them? Is this part of the knowledge economy, train guys in unneeded trades and charge the ass off 3rd level students?

I've done a FAS course myself, It was almost the same as the dole then, but you got decent dinners, that was enough to make you turn up. Maybe the kids now are complaining about bad waiter service

m.j.w

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Rates are cut now. Down 7.5%

Where did you see this?

Outkast_IRE

Tea drinker wrote: »

Fas was costing a billion per year back in 2008 or so, what's it down to now?

Someone posted that at the end of the apprenticeship there weren't even jobs so what's the point in wasting money training them? Is this part of the knowledge economy, train guys in unneeded trades and charge the ass off 3rd level students?

I've done a FAS course myself, It was almost the same as the dole then, but you got decent dinners, that was enough to make you turn up. Maybe the kids now are complaining about bad waiter service

You wouldnt consider it unfair to cut people off half way through their training , for a lot of guys that would be making 2-3 years of their life pointless!!!!
It would be the same as stopping a 3rd level course 2 or 3 years into a degree program . Plenty of these students cant get jobs out of their 3rd level courses and their fees are paid for , should we cut them off from their free fees.

These apprentices helped keep the boom on course by working for brutal wages for the first few years of the apprenticship, most apprentices worked 40 hour weeks for their first year and came out with less than €200 euros. Can you really try and tell me they arent entitled for their training to be paid for after working for such money?

Besides your point is mute anyway if you knew the industry you would know apprenticeship registration is at an all time low and will balance to a natural level within the next year .

mad m

Dublin City Council have taken on a good few apprentices of different trades for six months to complete their training, then they are gone. Afaik FAS are paying their wages during their six months with the council....

Outkast_IRE

mad m wrote: »

Dublin City Council have taken on a good few apprentices of different trades for six months to complete their training, then they are gone. Afaik FAS are paying their wages during their six months with the council....

money well spent imo , most of these apprentices will head abroad now papers in hand and wont be claiming here .

Out of my class of 16 only about 5 of us were full time employed a few others had on off work , about half the class planned on going abroad as soon as they got their papers. The problem being a lot of these guys only needed a few months work to get their papers and they just couldnt get the last few months .So financially it makes sense to help these guys finish their time and let them leave if they want.

manic mailman

Was talking to my apprentice mate there recently. According to him, the majority of the people in his course will be gone asap when they finish and get their qualifications and you can hardly blame them.

So paying an apprentice €450 a week seems particularly galling to me.

Outkast_IRE

manic mailman wrote: »

Was talking to my apprentice mate there recently. According to him, the majority of the people in his course will be gone asap when they finish and get their qualifications and you can hardly blame them.

So paying an apprentice €450 a week seems particularly galling to me.

Well if they are coming in off the dole to 450 a week then i am the first to say thats wrong , but there are fellas there who are working up to 18 months solid before getting called for a 10 week training block .

gigino

no wonder the country is bust.

apprentices in other countries do not get paid as much as here .

crazy.

Outkast_IRE

gigino wrote: »

no wonder the country is bust.

apprentices in other countries do not get paid as much as here .

crazy.

care to back that up with any relative information ? the plumbing and electrical trades here are very thorough and good in comparison to alot of other countries
thats the reason these trades pick up work relatively easily in other countries.
, and its not like apprentices are on this rate throghout their apprenticeship , most earn less than €200 for at least a 40 hour week for their first year , €300 second year, €420 third year and very few are ever paid the top rate of €500 . And do remember its only after 3 or 4 years constant work and training that they get this rate.

And silly comments like "no wonder the country is bust" every single building sites had these 1st year apprentices working 40 hour weeks for less than €200 that helped the economy and business .