Which Top 4 side do you see fading away in the next few seasons

arsenallegend

Clearly we're seen the top 4 becoming a top 6 with Man city and Spures becoming stronger plus Everton and Aston Villa are getting closer. I just wondering who out of the 4 major clubs in England(man utd, Liverpool, chelsea and Arsenal) do you see fading away from battling from the league and other major honours.

Man Utd they are like Chelsea a aging team but they still have a few young players(rooney,fletcher,Anderson,Nani) and with a few bob in the bank they should be able to spend a few players in the summer but once Ferguson Retires is when we will see how big a gap he has left the club in with his absence.

Chelsea unlike Utd they really haven't spent on youth and some of their big names DRogba,Lampard,Terry, the two Coles. Anelka are not getting any younger. I think they could be soon in for a slow building process and could be lagging behind for a few years.

Arsenal as a fan i think we're a few players short of a Championship winning team and keeping Fabergas and Van persie is crucial. A goalkeeper, a centre back, a centre defensive midfielder. a creative midfielder and a striker(we signed that guy from bordeux but i feel we need a guy who can score 30 a season). A few signings and we could have a strong team that could last a few years.

Liverpool clearly getting rid of the Amercians will help and getting a owner with a ton of money and for Benetiz not to spend it on crap(thats if is still there). Plus keeping Torres is important i don't think gerrard is the same player of last year and is in his 30's now. I think Liverpool and chelsea are more in danger one with a aging squad and another with a very poor squad with four great players.

So who do you think is going downhill?

mike65

Arsenal! In 10 years time Wenger will still be promising how next year the development of young talent will pay off as they end the season in 7th or 8th. (and he'll still be suggesting he has no money!)

arsenallegend

mike65 wrote: »

Arsenal! In 10 years time Wenger will still be promising how next year the development of young talent will pay off as they end the season in 7th or 8th. (and he'll still be suggesting he has no money!)

i doubt the board or the fans patience will go that far
He clearly knows he needs to win something to keep the board and fans happy and making a few good signings will help but i highly doubt he will buy big.

karma_

Won't be Arsenal, they will soon have their stadium paid for and will have some funds in the kitty. I think it will be Liverpool and Utd. who will be having a few lean years.

tony1kenobi

Spurs will drop off.If Man City don't they'll replace Chelsea.Arsenal,Pool and Man U will always be there but for the odd blip.

Spurs :pac:

cson

mike65 wrote: »

Arsenal! In 10 years time Wenger will still be promising how next year the development of young talent will pay off as they end the season in 7th or 8th. (and he'll still be suggesting he has no money!)

Arsenal have been touted for this for the past 4 years or so yet they're still getting into and doing pretty well in the Champions League.

Chelsea I think; I just fancy Abramovich to pull the plug at some stage soon.

Jazzy

karma_ wrote: »

Won't be Arsenal, they will soon have their stadium paid for and will have some funds in the kitty. I think it will be Liverpool and Utd. who will be having a few lean years.

we have been lean for too many years

Lukker-

cson wrote: »

Chelsea I think; I just fancy Abramovich to pull the plug at some stage soon.

Why would he pull the plug after investeing so much? He only recently cleared the debt with his own money. Wouldn't make any sense to do so now.

applehunter

The obvious one is Liverpool.

They, in all likelyhood won't have Champions League money as an income stream next season. They are already at a disadvantage with their smalller stadium.

Man. Utd. and Arsenal with their stadia having 20-30k more in attendance at every game will continue to have healthy cash flow streams.

Chelsea are obviously dependent on a backer, but there have been no signs that he will be pulling out anytime soon.

d22ontour

None of them.Only Liverpool have been way below average this season and with 3 wins and a few results going their way could sneak 4th again this year.The 3 wannabe clubs have had a huge task just over taking one of the worst Liverpool sides in current times.Many think Liverpool over achieved last season with their top four results boosting their points tally which is fair enough but this season is actually what many thought last season to be.
City have spent huge amounts and should have had 4th wrapped up considering their outlay but are yet to be called anything but a club who have spent over the odds and while continue to do so for the foreseeable future can be nothing but be a wannabe Chelsea without the decent squad to start with.
Getting 4th this season has been made easy by the tactical ineptness of Rafa who should have been aiming for 1st place according to many Pool fans who didn't see past the over achieving regarding top four fixtures last season but still maintain that it couldn't be an over achievement.....This season has been the utmost proof that Pool are at best a top four team, yet, may still take 4th place after losing close to 20 games in all comps this season...
Enough with the scouse bashing i suppose...
It looks like City or Spurs might take 4th this season which is fair enough but for either of them to sustain that position would cost huge amounts and i doubt Spurs have the money for that.City have thrown huge amounts at players already but most don't want to buy into merc city just quite yet.A champions league qualifier against decent opposition won't make that task any easier.

the_monkey

Man utd .... even if they win the league this year ... they are just stubbornly holding on , especially when that senile old fart retires .

davyjose

the_monkey wrote: »

Man utd .... even if they win the league this year ... they are just stubbornly holding on , especially when that senile old fart retires .

Good to see an unbiased opinion here :rolleyes:

And what does it say for your team, if the league has been dominated by a senile old fart?

Kev_ps3

Man Utd easy. Unless of course we buy top players to replace Scholes/Giggs.

Pepe LeFrits

mike65 wrote: »

Arsenal! In 10 years time Wenger will still be promising how next year the development of young talent will pay off as they end the season in 7th or 8th. (and he'll still be suggesting he has no money!)

Reading a bit too much rawk there Mike!

Liverpool are currently the weakest positioned by some way but things change quickly in these topsy turvy owner swapping times. If UEFA's new rules on financial fair play come in, Chelsea could be in trouble, but then they'll probably be in the top 4 revenue generating clubs anyway...

Handsome Bob

I'm not sure if any team will truly fall away, but I do think we are seeing an end of the traditional Top 4 team's stranglehold on the league. Liverpool look to have suffered this season, but if they get a proper backer I can see them easily getting back into the Top 4, while someone like Arsenal or Man U might be the ones struggling next season. In short, you won't be seeing the same Top 4 every season, no where near it.

gosplan

If, as mentioned above, the financial fair play comes in then Chelsea and City are probably going to suffer the most.

Arsenal and United would benefit hugely having larger revenue streams but then it would also hamper United as regards the overhaul their elderly squad needs.

Just can't see Spurs & Liverpool staying where they are for a few seasons TBH, not with City spending the money they can.

PHB

Ultimately, revenue streams will dictate this an awful lot.

United and Arsenal have a fairly secure revenue scheme.
Liverpools scheme is worse, but if they got a new stadium they'd be equal to Arsenal.
Chelsea's revenue stream is dependent on Ambrovomich in order to cover their massive wage costs.

In terms of squad:

United have a squad which the core players are primarily around 28ish. Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Hargreaves, Berbatov.
At the same time, they have a young squad of Rafael, Evans, Fletcher, Anderson, Valencia, Nani, Rooney.
That's not even including the other potential prospects like Fabio, Cleverely, Possesbon, Obertan, Welbeck, Macheda.
Old people who still play a major role are VDS and Ferdinand.

As such, I think United's only real 4-5 year problem is Goalkeeper and the huge hole that exists currently in central midfield in terms of attack. I'm not really sure where people are getting this aging squad thing. Rio VDS are the only first teamers who are over 30. Neville played very little this year. Giggs and Scholes are clearly past it, but they havent been at the core of our success this year frankly, if anything, I'd argue that they are getting close to hindering it.

And we have one thing that no other squad has, an utterly world class player, who is only 24, who will almost definately see out his career at United.

Can't see us fading away from the top 4, although without Fergie in there, who knows what will happen

Chelsea's squad is significantly older, and thus in theory could fade. However, I expect a bit of a re-investment by Ambrovomich.

Arsenal's squad is still young, similar to United's but with about a year or two younger for the older players. However if Fabregas leaves in a few years, which I think he might, they'll need to find some new talisman. United are lucky that I think Rooney will finish his career at United.

Liverpools squad could go any which way. Should Rafa leave, I think in the next year or so, Mashcerano and Torres would leave. Gerrard is also getting on a bit. But their problems imo are much deeper and new owners will fix it somewhat, but frankly, useless they get a fairly major investment, I can see whoever gets 4th this year being able to push on and consolidate.

DazMarz

-Liverpool. If they fail to make the Champions League spot this season, they could easily go the way of Leeds United (more than a little bit overdramatic, as Liverpool aren't in the same position of HUGE player bills and such, but a slide to mid-table mediocrity could easily ensue)

-Arsenal. Reliant on a far too young, untested squad, and if Fabregas departs, his huge influence will be sorely missed. But cannot see them falling out of the Top 4. They'll still make the Top 3 handy enough.

Chelsea or Man United: not a chance. Chelsea, while very reliant on Abramovich, have no outstanding debts; their Achilles' Heel is the massive wage bill. Manchester United (for all the bullshít talk) are currently top of the Premier League (as of 15:00hrs on 24/4/10), despite it all. They will re-invest in the summer... No doubt.

Man City will be the only genuine threat to the Top 4. Spurs/Villa/Everton will all fade back when the old adage of "Money talks and bullshít walks" comes into its own this summer as City open the chequebook in a big way. UEFA won't have the spine to stop that shíte either. They're all talk, no action. Which (ironic coming from a Chelsea fan!!!) is kinda bad for the game.

Chardee MacDennis

DazMarz wrote: »

-Liverpool. If they fail to make the Champions League spot this season, they could easily go the way of Leeds United (more than a little bit overdramatic, as Liverpool aren't in the same position of HUGE player bills and such, but a slide to mid-table mediocrity could easily ensue)

so not at all like leeds?

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

In terms of squad:

United have a squad which the core players are primarily around 28ish. Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Hargreaves, Berbatov.
At the same time, they have a young squad of Rafael, Evans, Fletcher, Anderson, Valencia, Nani, Rooney.
That's not even including the other potential prospects like Fabio, Cleverely, Possesbon, Obertan, Welbeck, Macheda.
Old people who still play a major role are VDS and Ferdinand.


Arsenal's squad is still young, similar to United's but with about a year or two younger for the older players. However if Fabregas leaves in a few years, which I think he might, they'll need to find some new talisman. United are lucky that I think Rooney will finish his career at United.

Liverpools squad could go any which way. Should Rafa leave, I think in the next year or so, Mashcerano and Torres would leave. Gerrard is also getting on a bit. But their problems imo are much deeper and new owners will fix it somewhat, but frankly, useless they get a fairly major investment, I can see whoever gets 4th this year being able to push on and consolidate.

To apply your own method of analysis to be both Arsenal and Liverpool:

Arsenal

28+:

Almunia, Rosicky, Gallas, Silvestre, Arshavin, Campbell

23 - 27:

Sagna, Vermaelen, Eduardo, Van Persie, Clichy, Fabianski, Eboue, Djourou

Up to 22:

Fabregas, Nasri, Walcott , Denilson, Ramsey, Song, Mannone, Gibbs, Traore, Bendtner, Eastmond

Promising talent:

Vela, Merida, Coquelin, Wilshere, Szczesney, Nordveidt, Wellington, Galindo, Barazite

Liverpool

28+:

Gerrard, Riera, Aurélio, Benayoun, Kyrgiakos, Maxi, Kuyt, Carragher

23 - 27:

Cavalieri, Johnson, Aquilani, Agger, Torres, Babel, Mascherano, Insua, Reina, Degan, Skrtel,

Up to 22:

N'Gog, El Zhar, Darby, Kelly

Promising talent:

Kacaniklic, Pacheco, Dalle Valle, Amoo, Nemeth, San Jose, Eccleson

lordgoat

I'd rate alot more of the arsenal youth players ahead of the ones you listed from liverpool there.

And i think the arsenal squad is alot better than the liverpool one at the moment, i suppose proven by the league table.

jesus_thats_gre

For the sake of completeness:

Man United

28+:

Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand, Vidic, Van Der Sar, Neville, Brown, Owen, O'Shea, Evra, Hargreaves, Berbatov, Ji-Sung, Carrick, Kuszczak

23 - 27:

Rooney, Foster, Nani, Fletcher, Valencia

Up to 22:

Anderson, Evans, Rafael, Gibson,

Promising talent:

Macheda, Wellbeck, Fabio, Obertan, De Laet, Evans, Diouf,

Chelsea

28+:

Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Cole, Drogba, Ballack, Ferreira, Deco, Malouda, Belletti, Anelka, Hilario

23 - 27:

Cech, Ivanović, Essien, Mikel, Bosingwa, Zhirkov, Kalou, Alex

Up to 22:

Sturridge

Promising talent:

Matic, Kakuta,

Man City

28+:

Given, Bridge, Wright-Phillips, Taylor, Santa Cruz, Sylvinho, Petrov, Barry, Viera, Touré, Bellamy,

23 - 27:

Zabaleta, Ireland, Garrido, Lescott, Adebayor, Tevez, Kompany, De Jong,

Up to 22:

Richards, Onuoha, Johnson, Adam Johnson


Promising talent:

Have no idea

Spurs

28+:

Keane, Gudjohnsen, King, Gomes, Pavlyuchenko, Crouch, Cudicini, Woodgate

23 - 27:

Kaboul, Bentley, Huddlestone, Lennon, Jenas, Palacios, Modrić, Defoe, Dawson, Bassong, Kranjčar, Ćorluka, Assou-Ekotto

Up to 22:



Promising talent:

Rose, Walker, Dervite, Livermore

Aston Villa

28+:

Friedel, Young, Bouma, Dunne, Harewood, Carew, Heskey, Petrov, Beye, Cuéllar, Warnock

23 - 27:

Sidwell, Downing, Young, Milner, Agbonlahor, Davies, Reo-Coker, Guzan, Collins

Up to 22:

Delph

Promising talent:

DelFouneso, Albrighton, Clark

jesus_thats_gre

lordgoat wrote: »

I'd rate alot more of the arsenal youth players ahead of the ones you listed from liverpool there.

And i think the arsenal squad is alot better than the liverpool one at the moment, i suppose proven by the league table.

I am more familiar with the youth setup at Liverpool tbh. A lot of Liverpool fans would be hopeful about those players.

I know very little about up and coming talent at other clubs and have just listed names that I have seen mentioned on the respective clubs super thread. Feel free to add whoever you like.

Boskowski

I was going to say Liverpool but for the obvious reason...

killwill

arsenallegend wrote: »

Chelsea unlike Utd they really haven't spent on youth and some of their big names DRogba,Lampard,Terry, the two Coles. Anelka are not getting any younger. I think they could be soon in for a slow building process and could be lagging behind for a few years.

Arsenal as a fan i think we're a few players short of a Championship winning team and keeping Fabergas and Van persie is crucial. A goalkeeper, a centre back, a centre defensive midfielder. a creative midfielder and a striker(we signed that guy from bordeux but i feel we need a guy who can score 30 a season). A few signings and we could have a strong team that could last a few years.

Chelsea have about 3-4 great youth prospects that will be in the first team next season.

Arsenal, if they keep RVP fit, have the 30 a season player. Is Song not your DM? He is turning into a fantastic player. I think next season will see Liverpool improve and will be a tight season again. As a fan I fear for United in the next 3 years. Our midfield is really gonna struggle if ye don't spend to buy in some established players.

x in the city

Everton will kick ass if Moyes keeps his squad intact, being in the position we are in now is amazing considering we were not far off relegation in december.

The fact that almost half the Everton team will be involved in mega zillion transfers this summer (as is the norm now) wont help but the squad is full of promise.

Who will fall from grace, well Liverpool are pretty f****d.. not being biased but Rafa has overspent and underachieved and its pay back time.

Chelsea will always have money for new talent and you can write them off ever, Man United have the SAF factor, them being in the top 1/2/3 seems a given.

Pretenders to the throne City have potential, but have the shieks got patience?

Spurs .... hmmmmmm

jesus_thats_gre

killwill wrote: »

Chelsea have about 3-4 great youth prospects that will be in the first team next season.
.

Who are they by the way? I want to add them to the Chelsea team thing I done.

JPA

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Aston Villa

Promising talent:
Osbourne

LOL!

leninbenjamin

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Arsenal

28+:

Almunia, Rosicky, Gallas, Silvestre, Arshavin, Campbell

23 - 27:

Sagna, Vermaelen, Eduardo, Van Persie, Clichy, Fabianski, Eboue,

Up to 22:

Fabregas, Nasri, Walcott , Denilson, Ramsey, Song, Mannone, Gibbs, Traore, Bendtner

Promising talent:

Vela, Merida, Coquelin

lol, everyone forgets about the existence of Djourou (23 btw). And Eastmond is practically in the first team squad (so should Vela btw).

Also, add Wilshere, Szczesney and Nordveidt, all outstanding prospects on loan, South American prospects Wellington (17), Galindo (17) and Martinez (17) will join the club in the coming year. Barazite could still come good too, probably would have been in the first year squad this year but for a persistant shoulder injury that required surgery. And of course the wealth of ridiculously good teenagers year olds like Angha, Shea etc.

Anyway,we've slightly more our young talent in our arsenal than the rest, too many to play tbh. Even if they don't make the first team (which most wont) they will still be a huge source of revenue for the club in the coming future. Even Merida now who will probably be leaving on a free will command a good few million of a settlement, we should at least be getting a full return on our investment in him. Given the lack of investment in football at the moment (outside of the middle eastlands of course, which is a special case tbh) the conveyor belt of youth could potentially tip the scales in our favour over the next decade.

jesus_thats_gre

JPA wrote: »

LOL!

How about you list the names then.

I had a bloody quick look and couldn't find any information on it. Took some random names off of their wiki page..

Such moany little bitches on this forum sometimes. I suspect there aren't many out there who would have intimate knowledge of the youth prospect that exist in each of the 6 top clubs.

JPA

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

How about you list the names then.

I had a bloody quick look and couldn't find any information on it. Took some random names off of their wiki page..

Such moany little bitches on this forum sometimes. I suspect there aren't many out there who would have intimate knowledge of the youth prospect that exist in each of the 6 top clubs.

Jesus. :eek: Relax! It's just he's terrible.

jesus_thats_gre

leninbenjamin wrote: »

lol, everyone forgets about the existence of Djourou (23 btw). And Eastmond is practically in the first team squad (so should Vela btw).

Also, add Wilshere, Szczesney and Nordveidt, all outstanding prospects on loan, South American prospects Wellington (17), Galindo (17) and Martinez (17) will join the club in the coming year. Barazite could still come good too, probably would have been in the first year squad this year but for a persistant shoulder injury that required surgery. And of course the wealth of ridiculously good teenagers year olds like Angha, Shea etc.

Anyway,we've slightly more our young talent in our arsenal than the rest, too many to play tbh. Even if they don't make the first team (which most wont) they will still be a huge source of revenue for the club in the coming future. Even Merida now who will probably be leaving on a free will command a good few million of a settlement, we should at least be getting a full return on our investment in him. Given the lack of investment in football at the moment (outside of the middle eastlands of course, which is a special case tbh) the conveyor belt of youth could potentially tip the scales in our favour over the next decade.

Added those names there. Cheers!