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Relocate to Munich or Amsterdam?
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24-04-2010 11:37am#1
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30% Ruling isn't guaranteed, its something you apply for which you may or may not get and these days its alot more difficult to get it.I'm being offered a job with a choice of relocating to Munich or Amsterdam and I'm looking for some opinions as to which would be the better place to move to.
Amsterdam:
+ 30% tax-free ruling
+ Proximity to Paris, Brussels, London
+ city to airport in 15 mins (important for my job)
+ opportunity to learn a new language
+ more cosmopolitan than Munich (or so I'm told)
- no hills, mountains means hiking/skiing will be seldom
- will require networking upon arrival to make friends
- I'm not familiar with the Amsterdam and Netherlands as a place to live. Only visited 2 or 3 times before.
- food choices aren't great
- similar weather to UK and Ireland
Amsterdam does have great Transport links, ICE train goes directly from there via Utrecht to Cologne, Duesseldorf, etc. The Thalys goes to Paris via Den Haag, Rotterdam. Public transport is great, however its usually cheaper to fly.
No Hills/Mountains is a balls
.. Although lots of cycling and there is some fantastic scenery outside Amsterdam.
The food choice in Amsterdam is fantastic, wide range of stuff available although not in the Center. we went to this place and it was an experience
http://www.restaurantnomads.nl/
I think if you've visited Amsterdam a few times before you'd have a very skewed view of it, its a totally different city when you live there. You could also choose to Live in Haarlem (much more chilled out and less tourists) or Leiden and still be less than 30 minutes from Schiphol.
If you speak German you'll pickup Dutch pretty quickly as its basically a Germanic dialect, the main hurdle is the accent and people impatience, i.e. their english will always be better than your Dutch.
The Weather in the Netherlands is comparable to Ireland really no extremes in either direction (hot or cold) summer in Amsterdam is nice though !Munich:
+ lovely city, one of my favourites
+ location in central Europe: Austria, Switzerland and Italy at the doorstep
+ I know the language already
+ I've some good friends in Munich, Salzburg and Innsbruck
+ skiing once or twice a month in the winter! Hiking in the summer.
- higher taxes
- insurance for almost everything is required
- 45 minutes from city to airport!
- more travel required, as work will be in northern Europe and UK
At the end of the day, I'll be in Munich/Amsterdam on weekends, but I'm looking for a long-term move and would like some unbiased opinions on the matter.
Germany taxes are much higher than Dutch (especially if you get the 30% Ruling)
Also when you register with the Landhaupstadt make sure you do not declare you are Catholic, this is an extra 8 - 9 % Tax on top of the tax you pay. Basically take a week and a half wages, that would be roughly the difference between your Dutch(30% Ruling) vs your German wage.
If your into Skiing its the place to be, really close to Austria !
Insurance for almost everything is required in the Netherlands also, private Health insurance is mandatory, costs about 1100 - 1200 a year depending on the plan you pick, although this is much lower than the German system, usually around 3000 euros per year (this is because the Germans try to normalise the cost over your lifetime i.e. it shouldn't go up as you get older) . Personal Liability insurance is recommended.
Munich is an expensive city, even moreso than Amsterdam.
If it was me i'd go for less travel, you have more time for peronsal time that way, the South is only a flight away anyway. Amsterdam is pretty easy to integrate into, although theres two ways. The Expat way or the Dutch way. It's easy to become isolated if you become focused purely on meeting expats as they'll generally only stay for a max of 2 years (you'll feel like your friends are constantly leaving) , however if you try to integrate the Dutch way you'll make long term friends and in the long term its alot better.
Just my two cents.0 -
Cheers for that keithclancy.
The missus and I have pretty settled on the choice of Amsterdam over the weekend, and the points that you highlighted above reinforce the choice we've made.
I was looking at rents in Rotterdam over the weekend, and they're waaaay cheaper than A'dam. Like 3 to 4 hundred quid per month. But then it'll take around 45 minutes to get to Schiphol on the NS Hispeed (pretty much the same as Munich to MUC airport).
I thought the 30% ruling is only dependent on you wage and the agreement signed between employee and employer. Are you saying there are other factors that play into it? If so, please tell as I've not read about it anywhere.
Agree about the Dutch way/Expat way, as it applies to pretty much everywhere else I've lived. I'll defo try to learn Dutch and integrate with locals once we move. One thing I've learned as well is that it's important to live quite centrally to make it easier to socialize. This is probably what we'll do (at least until such time that we've established ourselves).
I'll have to recant my statement about the food choices... I remember there being some good Indonesian/Thai restaurants with very tasty and very spicy food -- a suitable antidote to the Dutch fave of cheese + bread! 0 -
Cheers for that keithclancy.
The missus and I have pretty settled on the choice of Amsterdam over the weekend, and the points that you highlighted above reinforce the choice we've made.
I was looking at rents in Rotterdam over the weekend, and they're waaaay cheaper than A'dam. Like 3 to 4 hundred quid per month. But then it'll take around 45 minutes to get to Schiphol on the NS Hispeed (pretty much the same as Munich to MUC airport).
I thought the 30% ruling is only dependent on you wage and the agreement signed between employee and employer. Are you saying there are other factors that play into it? If so, please tell as I've not read about it anywhere.
Agree about the Dutch way/Expat way, as it applies to pretty much everywhere else I've lived. I'll defo try to learn Dutch and integrate with locals once we move. One thing I've learned as well is that it's important to live quite centrally to make it easier to socialize. This is probably what we'll do (at least until such time that we've established ourselves).
I'll have to recant my statement about the food choices... I remember there being some good Indonesian/Thai restaurants with very tasty and very spicy food -- a suitable antidote to the Dutch fave of cheese + bread!
Well... Rotterdam isn't that nice, theres a reason the rent is so cheap, people from Rotterdam think the skyscrapers are the bees knees though
Theres lots of choices, basically anywhere on the rail link between Den Haag / Amsterdam or you could live in Utrecht which is really nice and its a 31 minute train ride to Schiphol. Also Utrecht's raillinks are just as good as Amsterdam as the ICE runs through there on the way to Germany.
The 30% ruling is a Tax break given to Foreign knowledge workers, basically a skill that is in short supply in the Netherlands. You'll need copies of your qualifications/certs etc to be sent off to the Tax Office (Belastingdienst) the whole process takes about 2 - 3 months, you should be ok if your employer is fairly sure you'll get it, but its not up to them at the end of the day, the Belastingdienst make that call.
They'll apply for it after you get your BSN (Tax number) from the City Hall (I don't think the Tax office do that part anymore)
Also if you move Job you have to re-apply for it (unless your a contractor, then it stays with your Umbrella company)
It runs for 10 years.
More info on it here:
http://www.iamsterdam.com/en/living/official-matters/thirty-percent-ruling
Myself i'd go for Utrecht .. tis lovely.
Think about your missus finding a Job too though, it will be easier for her in Amsterdam/The Hague/Rotterdam.
Don't limit yourself to living in Amsterdam either though, the transport network is excellent, even night trains run every hour after 12.
Maybe take a weekend trip over and checkout one or two places.
**Edit**
Also if looking at places to live www.funda.nl is your only port of call 0 -
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I've had a look at apartments in Utrecht and unless I'm living within walking distance to the station (read: expensive), it'll still take about an hour to get from my door to the airport according to the journeyplanner on 9292ov.nl.
That's a shame as there are some really nice apartments in the Terwijde area. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of available apartments in the centre of Utrecht as well. Anyway, I'll speak to the makelaars closer to the time of relocation.
Also seen some good apartments in the Jordaan area, which I'd be keen to scope out.
Do you think there's any chance of getting anything for less than 1,500 per month that's bigger than a shoebox?
I really don't want to be more than 40 minutes away from the airport as there's nothing worse than the feeling of "my journey isn't over yet" upon arriving at Schiphol on a Friday night.0 -
I've had a look at apartments in Utrecht and unless I'm living within walking distance to the station (read: expensive), it'll still take about an hour to get from my door to the airport according to the journeyplanner on 9292ov.nl. That's a shame as there are some really nice apartments in the Terwijde area. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of available apartments in the centre of Utrecht as well. Anyway, I'll speak to the makelaars closer to the time of relocation.
Also seen some good apartments in the Jordaan area, which I'd be keen to scope out.
Do you think there's any chance of getting anything for less than 1,500 per month that's bigger than a shoebox?
I really don't want to be more than 40 minutes away from the airport as there's nothing worse than the feeling of "my journey isn't over yet" upon arriving at Schiphol on a Friday night.
Hmmm ... Yeah .. Utrecht does look like slim pickings in the Center at the moment ..
How about Haarlem ?
http://www.funda.nl/huur/haarlem/appartement-29487540-bloemhofstraat-18-d/
40ish minutes door to door to Schiphol and fully furnished.
This ones even less distance and has two bedrooms (one for visitors) plus a nice balcony and also furnished:
http://www.funda.nl/huur/haarlem/huis-29412767-kamperstraat-58/
35 minutes to Schiphol
33 minutes to Amsterdam Centraal.
Haarlem is pretty nice also, If you live in Amsterdam Center it will be a shoebox unless you looking at paying 2000 a month anything lower than that will be adding 20 minutes at least onto your Journey (Getting to Centraal) to Schiphol, cramming into the Trams in the morning is a pain in the Arse as well.
I'd also cut down the times on 9292 as you'll probably be cycling anyway to the station, much quicker.
**EDIT** Bit of an article here on Expatica:
http://www.expatica.com/nl/essentials_moving_to/essentials/where-to-live-in-haarlem-667_9144.html
Just to let you know the Deposit can be two months, 3 months if Furnished.
You can also check the Demographics on Funda by clicking the Buurt option:
http://www.funda.nl/buurtinfo/haarlem/rozenprieel/?ref=294127670
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