VRT Megathread - ALL VRT DISCUSSION IN HERE - Read First Post

CosmicJay

bmw535d wrote: »

holding a guitar and wearing a pink shirt long hair etc.do you even drive a car?/bought a car?

Oh I do indeed. Right now I have a Citroen c4 an 91 Golf g60(Edit: Full of rust and in bits). Going to look at a Passat Sport tomorrow!

I would say you drive a 535d but last time I checked your 17? Just like me. I would love to know how you could afford a 535d let alone insurance.

freighter

Personally i think ye are all wasting your time with these facebook pages for and against vrt. Its not like brian cowan or brian lenihan are going to be on facebook and even if they were they wouldnt give a rats arse.....

-Chris-

bmw535d wrote: »

holding a guitar and wearing a pink shirt long hair etc.do you even drive a car?/bought a car?

Please don't get personal/stalkerish. It won't be tolerated.

JHMEG

freighter wrote: »

Its not like brian cowan or brian lenihan are going to be on facebook and even if they were they wouldnt give a rats arse.....

Facebook is very popular in the Civil Service, so much so that some depts have banned using it for an hour or so during the working day. So you never know...

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

some depts have banned using it for an hour or so during the working day. ...

From 1 to 2?:)

Technique

There's a lot of Donegal bashing in some of these threads. Most people I know up here support the collection of VRT from the people who are avoiding it.

As far as I can see, it's not being done on a point of principle. It's being done by people who would rather drive a Northern 320d than a Soithern Astra for the same money.

opinion guy

Any One wrote: »

Well the people who paid their VRT won't have to worry about Customs seizing their cars will they?

And seeing as the Irish Government brought in the car scrappage scheme last year i'd go so far as to say that there were more cars sold in the Republic then there were than in Northern Ireland.

So therefore not all cars attracted VRT only the ones imported from Northern Ireland and judging the way things are at the minute those people who imported a car don't want to pay VRT as they want to flaunt the law.

See now this is revealing. You do know that VRT applies to all new cars sold in the republic don't you ?

Vertakill

opinion guy wrote: »

See now this is revealing. You do know that VRT applies to all new cars sold in the republic don't you ?

I've been trying to explain that too and how that already skews the OMSP before you've even attempted to VRT your car. And how, if VRT was abolished or the rates decreased, dealers would be able to lower their prices rather than passing on the VRT to the customers, which would in turn make them more competitive.
There'd be no poverty spec bs as well like we currently have and people would be less inclined to spend their weekend traveling to get a car in the North or in GB as they could get one at home for a similar price.

If you read through the OP's comments, he's only mentioning N.Ireland in this which isn't exactly the full story. This is not just about Inishowen/Donegal vs N.Ireland.

That's not at all suprising though, considering the other VRT related facebook page is ran by an equally confused guy.



- Anyways - this debate is gonna go round and round and I've nothing left in the tank.

Any One

bmw535d wrote: »

yea i see everyone who has to much money has joined your facebook page,



FAIL

You must be one of people then who wants to buy a car (If you haven't aready done so) in the North and drive in the the republic without paying VRT.

The woman who bought a Lexus Jeep but never paid the VRT has plenty of money but yet didn't have enough money to pay the VRT

Any One

opinion guy wrote: »

See now this is revealing. You do know that VRT applies to all new cars sold in the republic don't you ?

Yes and people don't have a problem paying it. They only have a problem paying it when they live in Northern Ireland and have addresses out here so they try and get away with not paying the VRT.

Also anybody living in the Republic who buys a car in the North has to pay VRT and if they pay it they won't get their cars seized by the Customs for non paymeant of VRT.

99% of the people complaining about paying VRT are from Northern Ireland but live in the South and also have second homes & holiday homes in the South.

Wait until next weekend on the June bank holiday and all you will see is yellow number plates crossing the border.

There always complaing about the Laws in the South. If they abide by the rules of the Law when they live in the South then they would have no bother but most of them just want to drive their cars out here without paying VRT cause they have addresses in the North but live in the South.

Any One

Vertakill wrote: »

I've been trying to explain that too and how that already skews the OMSP before you've even attempted to VRT your car. And how, if VRT was abolished or the rates decreased, dealers would be able to lower their prices rather than passing on the VRT to the customers, which would in turn make them more competitive.
There'd be no poverty spec bs as well like we currently have and people would be less inclined to spend their weekend traveling to get a car in the North or in GB as they could get one at home for a similar price.

If you read through the OP's comments, he's only mentioning N.Ireland in this which isn't exactly the full story. This is not just about Inishowen/Donegal vs N.Ireland.

That's not at all suprising though, considering the other VRT related facebook page is ran by an equally confused guy.



- Anyways - this debate is gonna go round and round and I've nothing left in the tank.

But it seems to be only about Inishowen/Donegal vs N.Ireland

I'm not confused.

Your still missing the point even if you buy a car in the North and pay the VRT you are still saving money but its the people who live in Northern Ireland and have addresses out here that have a problem with paying VRT because they want to drive their cars out here without paying VRT cause they have addresses in the North but live in the South.

opinion guy

Its really obvious that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Drummerboy08

Vertakill wrote: »

The people who are FOR the VRT are people that are not enthusiastic about their cars and don't have the time, patience or the knowledge to go and get themselves a bargain in the UK and are quite happy with paying over the odds for a lower standard of car in Ireland.

Thats a big brush full of tar you've got yourself there.

Ali Babba

Victor wrote: »

Ali Babba, you're just rambling now. If people want services, they have to be paid for somehow. In the time the tribunals and Politicians have cost maybe €400m, Health and Welfare have cost perhaps €200 billion.

That's just it though Victor what we're getting for what we're paying for just isn't good value for money and so much of it is wasted, as for welfare, me being self-employed and having payed prsi and taxes, if I were to look for assistance from welfare in the morning if my business failed, i'd get nothing. So just to recap, I may be rambling but at least I have a valid point too.

-Corkie-

I cannot believe their is so many vrt threads here.

-Chris-

Fixed - threads merged, title edited.

opinion guy

SARASON wrote: »

I cannot believe their is so many vrt threads here.

Why not ? It affects everybody.

What I can't believe is that there are people actually supporting it. Its like the proverbial Turkey voting for Christmas

Guy:Incognito

opinion guy wrote: »

Why not ? It affects everybody.

What I can't believe is that there are people actually supporting it. Its like the proverbial Turkey voting for Christmas

That can be turned around very easily, somethign else has to go up for VRT to go down or be gotten rid of so your supporting other taxes going up, whats the difference?

opinion guy

Stekelly wrote: »

That can be turned around very easily, somethign else has to go up for VRT to go down or be gotten rid of so your supporting other taxes going up, whats the difference?

Or how about this.
Overall cost of cars goes down, more cars get sold, less people go abroad to buy, tax take per car goes down but overall tax take goes up. Motor industry does better, which is good for economy.


Personally I think they should scrap VRT, differentally adjust VAT on vehicles in accordance with vehicle emmissions bands and make up any shortfall in higher fuel taxes.
Say a base rate VAT for emissions band A of 25%, 27% for B, 30% for C, 35% for D, 40% for E and up.

Simples

opinion guy

.

-Chris-

opinion guy wrote: »

Overall cost value of cars goes down

FYP

Guy:Incognito

opinion guy wrote: »

Or how about this.
Overall cost of cars goes down, more cars get sold, less people go abroad to buy, tax take per car goes down but overall tax take goes up. Motor industry does better, which is good for economy.

Is anyone really not driving a car because of VRT? There plenty of cheap cars.

People upgrading cars will still have the same cost to change anyway as the trade in will be worth less and the new car less too.

It wouldnt have the effect on sales that anti vrt people seem to think.

opinion guy

Stekelly wrote: »

Is anyone really not driving a car because of VRT? There plenty of cheap cars.

People upgrading cars will still have the same cost to change anyway as the trade in will be worth less and the new car less too.

It wouldnt have the effect on sales that anti vrt people seem to think.

More people would buy new cars if they were cheaper as opposed to second hand. There are plenty of cheap **** cars. And I'd argue they are not cheap when compared to cheap cars elsewhere.

Well as to the value argument -> see taxi plate argument of 10 years ago i.e. tough. (plus at trade it it would neutralise - woudl onyl be an issue for those who sell and don't intend to buy)

It would boost sales. Even buying a second hand its cheaper to import - in fact most imports are second hand.

This whole argument is ridiculous. As I said - turkeys voting for christmas.

Incidentally if you reduce the artifically high value of Irish cars then you may even reduce insurance premiums (well in theory- whether it happens or not is another matter)

Cuddlesworth

opinion guy wrote: »

More people would buy new cars if they were cheaper as opposed to second hand. There are plenty of cheap **** cars. And I'd argue they are not cheap when compared to cheap cars elsewhere.

The cost to change would remain the same. The current value of their car would plummet. Any change to VRT would affect only affect people whose cars had little or no residual value or people who don't have a car. And the tax cost of non car owners would rise significantly.

opinion guy wrote: »

Well as to the value argument -> see taxi plate argument of 10 years ago i.e. tough. (plus at trade it it would neutralise - woudl onyl be an issue for those who sell and don't intend to buy)

As I said before it would require a significant rise in the overall tax base of everybody in this country. It would affect the trading assets of a number of businesses in this country, leasing fleets, car sales lots would all face the possibility of financial ruin due to the drop.

opinion guy wrote: »

It would boost sales. Even buying a second hand its cheaper to import - in fact most imports are second hand.

Currency fluctuations in extreme economic conditions made imports cheaper. That isn't a reliable factor in future predications of import value

opinion guy wrote: »

This whole argument is ridiculous. As I said - turkeys voting for christmas.

Creating simple answers to difficult economic situations doesn't work.

opinion guy wrote: »

Incidentally if you reduce the artifically high value of Irish cars then you may even reduce insurance premiums (well in theory- whether it happens or not is another matter)

And put plenty of people out of jobs.


I personnel can't stand VRT. For other reasons. If this downturn has taught us anything its that a heavy tax system based on luxury goods is ineffective during times when the money is most needed. It needs to be changed, but over a very long period of time. Fixed tax rates need to be introduced in its place.

But I can't stand people who live here and don't pay it. They are dodging huge amounts of money, not just the VRT but the motor tax and the NCT. Its theft and it needs to be stopped through enforcement.

Guy:Incognito

opinion guy wrote: »

More people would buy new cars if they were cheaper as opposed to second hand. There are plenty of cheap **** cars. And I'd argue they are not cheap when compared to cheap cars elsewhere.

Well as to the value argument -> see taxi plate argument of 10 years ago i.e. tough. (plus at trade it it would neutralise - woudl onyl be an issue for those who sell and don't intend to buy)

It would boost sales. Even buying a second hand its cheaper to import - in fact most imports are second hand.

This whole argument is ridiculous. As I said - turkeys voting for christmas.

Incidentally if you reduce the artifically high value of Irish cars then you may even reduce insurance premiums (well in theory- whether it happens or not is another matter)

AFAIK we have a fairly high new car buying rate per head already compared to most of europe.

slimjimmc

opinion guy wrote: »

Incidentally if you reduce the artifically high value of Irish cars then you may even reduce insurance premiums (well in theory- whether it happens or not is another matter)

Don't injury claims, driver profile and vehicle specs have a much greater influence on insurance costs than vehicle value. Any time I went looking for quotes the value of the car made feck all difference to the price.

coolbeans

Why are people so concerned about bloody VRT when the country is quite literally on the verge of economic collapse? How about a Facebook campaign for a coherent jobs strategy, equitable taxation and political accountability. Christ, get some perspective people. VRT, it's a tax that we pay just like other countries. It's not illegal and if it were abolished it would have to be made up somewhere else. Better still how about a proper protest based in the real world and not on FB, the home of that inexplicably popular ****ing farm and mafia wars. Seriously people, I despair.

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, people are still buying cars.
When the government decides to keep VRT that is the only thing they look at, they don't care about a dozen people protesting, there's always someone protesting, to politicians that's just background noise.
There's only two ways out of this:
Build up a concerted movement of voters threatening to vote for some silly party that is sufficient to unseat the government (fat chance in Ireland, weclome to an endless future of FF)
or
STOP BUYING CARS YOU GIMBOIDS!
If everyone would drive around in 10-15 year old bangers VRT would be gone in 6 months.
But people are buying like mad, that means that most don't seem to mind and are happy to give their money over to the gov.
Also, VRT is the only tax where you decide how much you want to spend.
Import a Merc or Beemer, get fleeced, import some Jap banger and get off lightly.
So all in all people seem happy to be fleeced.

JHMEG

The VRT threads were all discussing different aspects of VRT

On any given day we could have 6 or 8 BMW threads, and annoying as they might be there's no sense in merging them...

Guy:Incognito

slimjimmc wrote: »

Don't injury claims, driver profile and vehicle specs have a much greater influence on insurance costs than vehicle value. Any time I went looking for quotes the value of the car made feck all difference to the price.

I'd be willing to bet a couple of grand either way on a brand new car will make zero difference on an insurance quote.


EDIT just checked and there was no difference between a car costing €15,000 and one costing €19,000.

opinion guy

slimjimmc wrote: »

Don't injury claims, driver profile and vehicle specs have a much greater influence on insurance costs than vehicle value. Any time I went looking for quotes the value of the car made feck all difference to the price.

Yeah I'm sure you are right. This is why I said "in theory"

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, people are still buying cars.
When the government decides to keep VRT that is the only thing they look at, they don't care about a dozen people protesting, there's always someone protesting, to politicians that's just background noise.
There's only two ways out of this:
Build up a concerted movement of voters threatening to vote for some silly party that is sufficient to unseat the government (fat chance in Ireland, weclome to an endless future of FF)
or
STOP BUYING CARS YOU GIMBOIDS!
If everyone would drive around in 10-15 year old bangers VRT would be gone in 6 months.
But people are buying like mad, that means that most don't seem to mind and are happy to give their money over to the gov.
Also, VRT is the only tax where you decide how much you want to spend.
Import a Merc or Beemer, get fleeced, import some Jap banger and get off lightly.
So all in all people seem happy to be fleeced.

All good points. It is kind weird how there are so many 2010's about given we are all supposed to be broke and jobless

ryanstewart

opinion guy wrote: »

All good points. It is kind weird how there are so many 2010's about given we are all supposed to be broke and jobless

It's amazing that people still think that this "silly" facebook campaign is going nowhere. Just look at whats happening. People are talking about this everywhere, and i hope they continue to do so. We'll keep this going all the way, and we are making an impact, and will continue to do so.

K-9

ryanstewart wrote: »

It's amazing that people still think that this "silly" facebook campaign is going nowhere. Just look at whats happening. People are talking about this everywhere, and i hope they continue to do so. We'll keep this going all the way, and we are making an impact, and will continue to do so.

People have being talking about this for years though, just its people talking about it on facebook now.

ryanstewart

K-9 wrote: »

People have being talking about this for years though, just its people talking about it on facebook now.

yes but it's gone further than facebook...people on the street who aren't on facebook are rallying their support, and when you have so many people talking about it, it's obviously influencing/annoying people in equal respects, and now people are actually trying to change something rather than sitting back and letting it continue. The media are involved, ordinary people are involved, it wont go away.

JHMEG

ryanstewart wrote: »

yes but it's gone further than facebook...people on the street who aren't on facebook are rallying their support, and when you have so many people talking about it, it's obviously influencing/annoying people in equal respects, and now people are actually trying to change something rather than sitting back and letting it continue. The media are involved, ordinary people are involved, it wont go away.

Nobody is talking about it where I live...

furtzy

ryanstewart wrote: »

yes but it's gone further than facebook...people on the street who aren't on facebook are rallying their support, and when you have so many people talking about it, it's obviously influencing/annoying people in equal respects, and now people are actually trying to change something rather than sitting back and letting it continue. The media are involved, ordinary people are involved, it wont go away.

I see you haven't changed the name of your facebook group yet....why are you still claiming its illegal?

Cookie_Monster

furtzy wrote: »

I see you haven't changed the name of your facebook group yet....why are you still claiming its illegal?

because its more inflammatory and so easier to get people behind it.

furtzy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

because its more inflammatory and so easier to get people behind it.

Exactly...so come on ryan admit you were wrong show some leadership and change the name

It BeeMee

opinion guy wrote: »

Or how about this.
Overall cost of cars goes down, more cars get sold, less people go abroad to buy, tax take per car goes down but overall tax take goes up. Motor industry does better, which is good for economy.

I don't believe dropping the cost of cars will result in more being sold. Everyone who needswants a car already has one.

The more people that go abroad to buy cars, the more the government like it as they get a tax revenue from the purchase.

On the other hand, buy a car from Joe Bloggs down the road and the government don't get a penny.

opinion guy wrote: »

Personally I think they should scrap VRT, differentally adjust VAT on vehicles in accordance with vehicle emmissions bands and make up any shortfall in higher fuel taxes.
Say a base rate VAT for emissions band A of 25%, 27% for B, 30% for C, 35% for D, 40% for E and up.

Simples

So you want to replace VRT with another tax that varies according to the emission levels of the car?
What a novel idea, wonder what will they call it?
Vehicle Registration Emissions Tax, maybe?

Look forward to a facebook campaign about how "our vet is illegal" ...

opinion guy

It BeeMee wrote: »

The more people that go abroad to buy cars, the more the government like it as they get a tax revenue from the purchase.

On the other hand, buy a car from Joe Bloggs down the road and the government don't get a penny.

This is a good point. Thou if second hand cars were cheaper here Northerners might buy in the South thus boosting our economy instead of all that money going abroad as currently happens.

So you want to replace VRT with another tax that varies according to the emission levels of the car?
What a novel idea, wonder what will they call it?
Vehicle Registration Emissions Tax, maybe?

Look forward to a facebook campaign about how "our vet is illegal" ...

No you misunderstand. I'm saying in stead of paying VAT and VRT as we currently do on a new car. There should only be a variable rate VAT on new cars and nothing on second hand. (Althou I dislike the VRT itself, I like the scaled nature of it to encourage more fuel efficient cars).

Helea

Hi , I bought the car in February from guy who lives in Dublin but the car has NOI reg no. The car had valid english tax, so I didn't pay the VRT and later on I didn't have a money for it. Now I would like to pay my VRT, but I am just wondering what to say or are they going to get me some penalties, I didn't use to his car for a while, I just don't know what to say them I have only paper from this guy about our purchase where is the date of purchasing and the part of his vehicle reg cert.

furtzy

Helea wrote: »

Hi , I bought the car in February from guy who lives in Dublin but the car has NOI reg no. The car had valid english tax, so I didn't pay the VRT and later on I didn't have a money for it. Now I would like to pay my VRT, but I am just wondering what to say or are they going to get me some penalties, I didn't use to his car for a while, I just don't know what to say them I have only paper from this guy about our purchase where is the date of purchasing and the part of his vehicle reg cert.

Has it been insured with an Irish insurance company since you bought it? If so they will have details from said insurance company with policy commencement dates i.e how long you have the car so penalties may apply

Helea

Yes, I have insured it for i think 2 months.

furtzy

Helea wrote: »

Yes, I have insured it for i think 2 months.

If your policy has been in place for 42 days or more then they may already have you on file. The insurance companies now have to provide revenue with details of all foreign reg cars on irish policies for more than 42 days

Just head down the VRO and see what happens....you may be lucky. I think they'll be just glad to get the money off you

ryanstewart

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=476661&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=114939931865765&aid=-1&id=1670070597

EU launch official investigation into legality of rules applied to calculate VRT and valuations of second hand cars, and the application of a second tax on a used vehicle from another member state.

Nice:D

K-9

ryanstewart wrote: »

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=476661&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=114939931865765&aid=-1&id=1670070597

EU launch official investigation into legality of rules applied to calculate VRT and valuations of second hand cars, and the application of a second tax on a used vehicle from another member state.

Nice:D

Is it any different to previous cases and investigations?

The only reason I mention that is, I think you will be let down if you believe this will make any change to the system. The EU have undertaken these investigations and people have taken cases before, Governments just find ways around them.

Guy:Incognito

I notice you havnt blown up the first few paragraphs that say how VRT is legal to show the members of the group.

Guy:Incognito

opinion guy wrote: »

There should only be a variable rate VAT on new cars and nothing on second hand.

So what your saying is that people in Ireland should pay a tax and people bringing in a cars should not have to pay it?


When a new car is registered here it as VRT applied. At no other stage in its life, no matter how many times it's sold on, is it subject to VRT again so I dotn see what your point is here.

ryanstewart

Stekelly wrote: »

So what your saying is that people in Ireland should pay a tax and people bringing in a cars should not have to pay it?


When a new car is registered here it as VRT applied. At no other stage in its life, no matter how many times it's sold on, is it subject to VRT again so I dotn see what your point is here.

It's pretty obvious what he's suggesting here, or can you not see the wood for the trees. Regarding new car sales, lower VAT on lower emission vehicles, higher VAT on higher emission vehicles, no VAT on imports. If the govt are serious about emissions, it could work on new car sales, and to be honest stekelly, your questioning on valid arguments is getting more desperate by the day - try dealing with the facts and contributing to a valid discussion than just half reading paragraphs, and thinking up a smart arsed answer to what most would consider fairly minor points. His point is made about NO VRT being paid but rewarding those who buy vehicles with low emissions as new cars, and penalising those who buy high emission cars with a VAT - read it again - V.A.T. charge. It's a very good point, and as far as imports are concerned, motor tax already penalises engine size, although higher engine sized cars can have lower emissions, which is why I believe a usage based tax is more feasible, and less costly to enforce. We keep going around in circles here because you fail to read/acknowledge an argument that does not interest you. You seem more prepared to sit and think of something ridiculous to say, than actually deal with an issue relevant to the argument.

There should only be a variable rate VAT on new cars and nothing on second hand.

Nice of you to paraphrase.

Eoin

You want people to "deal in facts", yet your facebook group still has a factually incorrect title.