Lidl.... bargains ? ahem.

Mountainsandh

Just thought I'd share this. I'm French living in Ireland 13 years, so in all that time I've been able to compare on a regular basis prices over there and over here. I still compare prices, and I'm sad to say I buy an large amount of stuff on the internet, since I refuse to pay the enormous price difference in Ireland. I buy Irish only when the service is right, and the price is reasonable.

Anyway, it's easy to compare prices with a site like Lidl, their offers being similar. The French site will ask you for a postal code, try 69100 for example (postcode in Lyon).

Here is the French Lidl :
http://www.lidl.fr/cps/rde/xchg//lidl_fr/hs.xsl/offerdate.htm?offerdate=10137&idcheck=true&ar2=&id=1715&country=FR&zipcode=69100&city=VILLEURBANNE&district=&street=305+Cours+Emile+Zola&ar=5&nf=True
and the Irish on same offers page :
http://www.lidl.ie/IE/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20100429.index

Barbecue : 129 euros in France, 149.99 euros in Ireland.
barbecue cover : 3.99 in France, 4.99 in Ireland.
portable loo : 44.99 France, 49.99 Ireland.
Led camping lamp : 9.99 in France, 12.99 in Ireland.
A little brush for the bbq : 1.99 in France, 2.99 in Ireland.

It speaks for itself really, and is pretty informative in that you can spot what Lidl thinks Irish customers will be ready to pay for what. My own take on it is that male Irish customers must splash out a lot more than their French counterparts since a lot of the male orientated gear (garden, car equipment, gadgets...) seem to have the biggest price differences. Female purchases like clothes and food have the smallest price difference (usually).
The little diy lamp that you hook in your bonnet for example is 15.99 in Ireland, and I think it was around the 8 or 9.99 mark for French customers.

No shipping/freight expenses can justify the price differences clearly visible on a great number of items on offer each week.

A lot of the items Lidl sells can be got on the internet for a cheaper price, shipping to Ireland included. Worth a bit of forward thinking isn't it ?:D

Btw, I know, taxes and all, but if I'm going to be bitter about it I might as well go the whole hog :
Purchase this bottle of Tequila in France and it will cost you 8.99.
http://www.lidl.fr/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_fr/hs.xsl/index_10226.htm
Purchase it in Ireland for 22.39.
http://www.lidl.ie/IE/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20107600.p.Silver_Tequila
Sorry .
Wouldn't want to spill your glass in Ireland.

Bobeagleburger

That's not much use to people in Ireland though is it?

We can hardly do our weekly shopping in France.

Lidl and Aldi are as cheap as it gets here, unless you live near the North.

Mountainsandh

You're right, you can not do your shopping in France. You can shop online though, if you have access to the internet which most of us have.
It's easy to educate yourself as a customer, and exercise your right to buy at the price you think is right, not the price an Irish retailer blackmails you into paying.
I called into a few shops around my area to buy an electric coffee maker. Tesco were offering a cheap, poor quality unbranded one that I didn't want. Irish retailers in my town had their first choice coffee makers starting at 39.99.
I just purchased a Philips one with all the (better) specs I wanted from a French website for 37 euros shipping included. What a pity. I would rather give my 37 euros to an Irish retailer, and I definitely will the day the prices are reasonable.
In the meantime I will not feed into the rip off system.

Bobeagleburger

Mountainsandh wrote: »

You're right, you can not do your shopping in France. You can shop online though, if you have access to the internet which most of us have.
It's easy to educate yourself as a customer, and exercise your right to buy at the price you think is right, not the price an Irish retailer blackmails you into paying.
I called into a few shops around my area to buy an electric coffee maker. Tesco were offering a cheap, poor quality unbranded one that I didn't want. Irish retailers in my town had their first choice coffee makers starting at 39.99.
I just purchased a Philips one with all the (better) specs I wanted from a French website for 37 euros shipping included. What a pity. I would rather give my 37 euros to an Irish retailer, and I definitely will the day the prices are reasonable.
In the meantime I will not feed into the rip off system.

And what about postage?

Is it free from France? Hardly I'd imagine.

I shop from Amazon all the time, free postage when you spend over £25

Bluetonic

Mountainsandh wrote: »

It's easy to educate yourself as a customer, and exercise your right to buy at the price you think is right, not the price an Irish retailer blackmails you into paying.

You give an example of a bottle of Tequila.

Do you even know why there is such a large difference? It's nothing to do with the retailer blackmailing the Irish citizen.

Do a little research and educate yourself as a consumer.

Mountainsandh

I did say I know, taxes and all... don't need to know the detail, as regards alcohol, I would always expect a big price difference. This is more than twice its price though. Anyway, alcohol not my focus here.

Mountainsandh

Rarnes, the site I am using charges 5 euros of handling charges whatever the item, then it's free delivery for French customers, for customers in Europe it is a percentage of the total purchase. In my case it was something like 2.09 euros. So it's 7 euros "shipping" altogether, on top of 29.99 for the coffee maker.

Bugnug

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Just thought I'd share this. I'm French living in Ireland 13 years, so in all that time I've been able to compare on a regular basis prices over there and over here. I still compare prices, and I'm sad to say I buy an large amount of stuff on the internet, since I refuse to pay the enormous price difference in Ireland. I buy Irish only when the service is right, and the price is reasonable.

Anyway, it's easy to compare prices with a site like Lidl, their offers being similar. The French site will ask you for a postal code, try 69100 for example (postcode in Lyon).

Here is the French Lidl :
http://www.lidl.fr/cps/rde/xchg//lidl_fr/hs.xsl/offerdate.htm?offerdate=10137&idcheck=true&ar2=&id=1715&country=FR&zipcode=69100&city=VILLEURBANNE&district=&street=305+Cours+Emile+Zola&ar=5&nf=True
and the Irish on same offers page :
http://www.lidl.ie/IE/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20100429.index

Barbecue : 129 euros in France, 149.99 euros in Ireland.
barbecue cover : 3.99 in France, 4.99 in Ireland.
portable loo : 44.99 France, 49.99 Ireland.
Led camping lamp : 9.99 in France, 12.99 in Ireland.
A little brush for the bbq : 1.99 in France, 2.99 in Ireland.

It speaks for itself really, and is pretty informative in that you can spot what Lidl thinks Irish customers will be ready to pay for what. My own take on it is that male Irish customers must splash out a lot more than their French counterparts since a lot of the male orientated gear (garden, car equipment, gadgets...) seem to have the biggest price differences. Female purchases like clothes and food have the smallest price difference (usually).
The little diy lamp that you hook in your bonnet for example is 15.99 in Ireland, and I think it was around the 8 or 9.99 mark for French customers.

No shipping/freight expenses can justify the price differences clearly visible on a great number of items on offer each week.

A lot of the items Lidl sells can be got on the internet for a cheaper price, shipping to Ireland included. Worth a bit of forward thinking isn't it ?:D

Btw, I know, taxes and all, but if I'm going to be bitter about it I might as well go the whole hog :
Purchase this bottle of Tequila in France and it will cost you 8.99.
http://www.lidl.fr/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_fr/hs.xsl/index_10226.htm
Purchase it in Ireland for 22.39.
http://www.lidl.ie/IE/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20107600.p.Silver_Tequila
Sorry .
Wouldn't want to spill your glass in Ireland.

Why dont you head of home then it would make your life so much easier. See ya:)

Bluetonic

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Anyway, alcohol not my focus here.

Why use it as an example then?

Again work out the tax and duty and let us know the true difference. Then factor in rents and staff rates in Ireland v France. Then factor in scales of economy for distribution by road in main land Europe v to an island on the west of Europe, etc...,

Mountainsandh

@bugnug : hmmm ... didn't move in to Ireland for people like you, did move in here for the thousands of others, and dozens other reasons why I think this is a great country. And I'm here to stay, actually. Do you like your country warts and all ? Well then, anybody else likely to be the same ?

Hey, it's fair enough if you're very happy paying your prices, you don't need to look at those sites I mentioned, in fact, you don't need to look at my posts at all .

ozt9vdujny3srf

Mountainsandh wrote: »

hmmm ... didn't move in to Ireland for people like you, did move in here for the thousands of others, and dozens other reasons why I think this is a great country. And I'm here to stay, actually. Do you like your country warts and all ? Well then, anybody else likely to be the same ?

Hey, it's fair enough if you're very happy paying your prices, you don't need to look at those sites I mentioned, in fact, you don't need to look at my posts at all .

I don't think it's fair to call Lidl Ireland a rip off, because in relation to the rest of the Irish market they are good value. It also isn't fair to compare bricks and mortar prices to online prices - they are a different service.

Mountainsandh

Bluetonic, I am aware of freight, rent, staff wages differences, if not very well informed. I don't think these can justify such price differences, and this is only one example, among so many others.
As a customer I don't think this should be my concern tbh. I shop around, compare prices, and decide where I want to buy. My money is there for the taking if I decide a retailer is offering a good enough deal.

If premises and staff are a humongous impediment to lower prices in Ireland, then retailers should aim to reduce expense in that regard, and set up more online sites, for example. That's there, that's available. Issues with delivery can be dealt with.
I did buy a laptop here, to an online Irish site, for a very competitive price, and delivered to my door (for a cheap delivery price).

Will buy again preferably from Irish retailers, if they are clever enough to come up with solutions to the current situation.

Pacing Mule

/sighs

Tequila in France - 30% of the retail price is tax. Base price around €6.29
In Ireland just shy of 70% of that retail price is tax. Base price around €6.75.

The cost of doing business in Ireland in terms of higher vat rates, rent, min wages and the extra transport costs for a retailer like Lidl getting stock to here means their cost prices here are higher and consequently retail prices are too.

I really wish that people would think before posting these things.

Mountainsandh

Truckle, I do think it is fair to compare.
To say that the internet offers a different service, and that Lidl offers some of the best prices in Ireland, is totally true.
However, that's sort of placing Ireland in a little bubble, comfortable for retailers, but not in the customer's best interest.
Ireland is now part of Europe, and access to the internet is widely available.
Therefore from a customer's point of view, it is absolutely relevant to compare prices in this way.
Customers might decide (like me) to switch to a slightly different kind of service, offering the same goods, and buy online.
And if you view prices in an Irish perspective only, thinking well, Lidl are the cheapest here, so it's not a rip-off, this is akin to saying : "ok, I just paid 100 euros for my new pair of runners, this is not a rip off, even though I can get them for 60 in France/US". I'm sorry, it just doesn't make sense to me.

borderlinemeath

Online shopping and store shopping are vastly different businesses and comparing the two is not comparing apples to apples.

I really don't see the likes of Lidl and Aldi opening an online business for the few customers that want to receive their groceries a couple of days after they actually wanted them.

While you say you know about the cost difference, we don't so to have a valid debate about it why don't you tell us what the minimum wage is in France? Also is there double time/supplement for Sundays/BHols? And isn't there a 35hr week in France?
How much is insurance for a business/premises/warehouse storage?

What about taxation? The only thing I heard recently that restaurants in France had their VAT rates slashed to 5% to encourage people to eat out and get the hospitality industry moving again?
Is there a PRSI equivelent and levies?

Mountainsandh

Pageant Messiah, as I said, I am aware costs are higher in Ireland.
So I should take it for granted that a 20 euro, 10 euro, 5 euro, or 1 or 2 euro price difference on smaller items is simply going to cover all these higher costs. On dozens of products.
Do you have the details ?
I don't either.
So I have a choice : trust that these people are not ripping me off and that the money does indeed just about cover the higher costs, or buy elsewhere.
It's not always the case, but I find that I often can source the same or similar items for cheaper online, or in promotions elsewhere.

This is what my initial post was about, some people might have thought they were making a wonderful bargain in Lidl, and might find that the same item is cheaper in an other retailer or online.

Mountainsandh

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Online shopping and store shopping are vastly different businesses and comparing the two is not comparing apples to apples.

I really don't see the likes of Lidl and Aldi opening an online business for the few customers that want to receive their groceries a couple of days after they actually wanted them.

While you say you know about the cost difference, we don't so to have a valid debate about it why don't you tell us what the minimum wage is in France? Also is there double time/supplement for Sundays/BHols? And isn't there a 35hr week in France?
How much is insurance for a business/premises/warehouse storage?

What about taxation? The only thing I heard recently that restaurants in France had their VAT rates slashed to 5% to encourage people to eat out and get the hospitality industry moving again?
Is there a PRSI equivelent and levies?

Haven't a clue about the tax and levies in France at the moment, or the minimum wage .
This is the usual pattern in Ireland : excuses, find out about this, find out about that.
I'm not buying
Here is the bottom line : I am the one who's going to spend my money (or not) in Ireland. I am able to go on the internet and find out about prices abroad, more specifically in Europe.
If you are a retailer, and you want my business, you will have to find a way to convince me I am paying the right price for something, and at the moment you are not. (you being a hypothetical retailer). It's your business to know about levies and taxes and wages, not mine. All I see is the good I'm willing to buy, the price you are asking, and the price that is being asked elsewhere, Europe and the world included.

Online sites are an alternative I, as one customer among others, am willing to consider. I'm sure you (hypothetical retailer) can come up with other inventive ideas to offer more competitive prices.
Off you go so, I really hope you come up with something, because I'd love to spend my money here.

I do buy groceries online from Tesco by the way, great service and great value.

borderlinemeath

It is definately down to taxation in France.
The same barbeque in question is €149 on the German Lidl website. The home of Lidl!
End of arguement about Lidl being a rip off.

This article is order immediatelyWe deliver it from 26.04. out.

FLORA BEST stainless steel gas grill cart

• FLORA BEST stainless steel gas grill cart
  • € 149.00

chriscross1

lidl and aldi are mighty, they beat super valu anyday pricewise.

borderlinemeath

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Haven't a clue about the tax and levies in France at the moment, or the minimum wage .
This is the usual pattern in Ireland : excuses, find out about this, find out about that.

I asked because you are the one claiming it's cheaper and as you say you are French. I don't speak the language nor would know what government website to check to validate YOUR argument.

I'm not buying

Have you ever heard of the Irish term "Skinflint"?:rolleyes:

If you are a retailer, and you want my business, you will have to find a way to convince me I am paying the right price for something, and at the moment you are not. (you being a hypothetical retailer).

I am a retailer and you are the worst type of customer


Off you go so, I really hope you come up with something, because I'd love to spend my money here.

I did, France is cheaper than the home country of the discount retailer.
Lets all move to France and leave you here enjoying the high prices.

Euro_Kraut

The fact that LIDL might charge a little less in France is indicative of the costs in Ireland generally.

LIDL however do provide some of the best value in Ireland when compared to other stores operating here.

I cannot accept the OPs argument that this show LIDL is 'a Rip Off'. It may show that Ireland in general is a rip off in terms of higher VAT etc, but really we have known that for quite some time now.

Euro_Kraut

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I asked because you are the one claiming it's cheaper and as you say you are French. I don't speak the language nor would know what government website to check to validate YOUR argument.

French VAT is 19.6%.

Here are 2 webiste in English about it: http://www.uscib.org/index.asp?documentID=1676

and

http://www.economywatch.com/business-and-economy/france.html

A google of 'French VAT' did the trick

Goldenquick

Bugnug wrote: »

Why dont you head of home then it would make your life so much easier. See ya:)

How rude! An example of our Cead Mile Failte?

The very same thing used to be said to me when I lived in UK by an ignorant few. :rolleyes:

As far as I can see the OP was simply making us aware that Lidl prices are cheaper in France, we do the same thing ourselves, comparing prices in Northern Ireland and in the Republic all the time.

Andrew33

rarnes1 wrote: »

That's not much use to people in Ireland though is it?

We can hardly do our weekly shopping in France.

Lidl and Aldi are as cheap as it gets here, unless you live near the North.

Not always the cheapest anymore! Still worth shopping around for stuff. Aldi are advertising a wind up torch at the mo for €6.99. Identical torch in Homestore & More is €3.99. Bag of rice is cheaper in Dunnes than Aldi. Etc, etc, etc.

borderlinemeath

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

French VAT is 19.6%.

Here are 2 webiste in English about it: http://www.uscib.org/index.asp?documentID=1676

and

http://www.economywatch.com/business-and-economy/france.html

A google of 'French VAT' did the trick

But is it that clear cut? Are there levies on certain goods like for example on purchasing a car here you pay VAT and then again in the form of VRT?

Mountainsandh

@borderlinemeath : Goodness, if that is your attitude as a retailer, no wonder you are finding times are tough. The bad news for you is that I am one of many.
If you do head off to France you might want to reconsider your career options to survive, and all the best of luck to you.

I for one have hope for Ireland, I think there are many clever and ressourcefull Irish entrepreneurs, some willing to innovate in retailing amongst other things, and willing to find alternatives and change their approach to the market and new economical situation.

I will be supporting them all the way.

Pacing Mule

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I for one have hope for Ireland, I think there are many clever and ressourcefull Irish entrepreneurs, some willing to innovate in retailing amongst other things, and willing to find alternatives and change their approach to the market and new economical situation.

I will be supporting them all the way.

It's clear from your posts though that you won't be supporting them all the way. You will support them if they can match / better the prices you have found elsewhere and online. That's your right of course as a customer and in particular in these times when money is tight then price is going to be a major factor but the reality is that the vast majority of retailers here can't cut prices any further, are making losses rather than profits yet are still accused of being rip of merchants.

Borderlinemeath perhaps has put the point a bit less tactful than he/she should have but there is nothing more frustrating for a retailer to be accused of being a rip off / engaged in price gouging etc when they are literally doing their best service and providing the cheapest prices possible only for customers to come in and go...

"I can get this for x elsewhere - if you don't match this I'm leaving as you are clearly profiteering etc"

borderlinemeath

Mountainsandh wrote: »

@borderlinemeath : Goodness, if that is your attitude as a retailer, no wonder you are finding times are tough. The bad news for you is that I am one of many.
If you do head off to France you might want to reconsider your career options to survive, and all the best of luck to you.

I for one have hope for Ireland, I think there are many clever and ressourcefull Irish entrepreneurs, some willing to innovate in retailing amongst other things, and willing to find alternatives and change their approach to the market and new economical situation.

I will be supporting them all the way.

You've changed your tune, maybe you should change the thread title.:D

I am a retailer and I am sick to death of "rip off this" and "rip off that" when the person who is claiming that they are ripped off are not dealing with the same store in the same country selling the same branded product or service. It's not a comparable rip off otherwise.
How can you claim something is a rip off when there is €20 difference IN ANOTHER COUNTRY?
Facts are facts. Yes we have a single currency in the Eurozone.
But each country has it's own laws, taxations, levies, stealth taxes, wealth taxes and for the foreseeable future, they always will. So why is is so hard for you to understand that prices vary?

Take the USA as another example. Good old dollar in every state but each state has their own governor and their own state laws and taxes so prices vary. And more annoyingly things are advertised without tax so the additional taxation comes when you go to pay for goods or services.

Yes things cost more here but we have had the argument time and time again. Would I like to see cheaper prices? Yes. But that would mean abolishing the minimum wage and then the dole queues would increase as people cannot afford to live. Taxation would increase to pay the increased volume welfare and prices would rise.

Its far from Utopia living in Ireland at the minute but I get on with it and pay my taxes and buy goods and services locally. I don't travel to the north to buy anything nor do I shop much online although I do use the internet as a comparable pricing tool when I do want to buy anything.

As I have pointed out in my previous post your bbq is the same price in Germany so it is definately down to taxation in your home country of which you claim to know nothing about.

Mountainsandh

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

It's clear from your posts though that you won't be supporting them all the way. You will support them if they can match / better the prices you have found elsewhere and online. That's your right of course as a customer and in particular in these times when money is tight then price is going to be a major factor but the reality is that the vast majority of retailers here can't cut prices any further, are making losses rather than profits yet are still accused of being rip of merchants.

Borderlinemeath perhaps has put the point a bit less tactful than he/she should have but there is nothing more frustrating for a retailer to be accused of being a rip off / engaged in price gouging etc when they are literally doing their best service and providing the cheapest prices possible only for customers to come in and go...

"I can get this for x elsewhere - if you don't match this I'm leaving as you are clearly profiteering etc"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pageant I will support anyone who can justify their prices. I do pay a higher price than I can find online/abroad on some occasions when I think the service offered justifies it. Say for example, kids' shoes. I go to France on a regular basis and could purchase them there, however I've always bought my kids' shoes for a slightly (as in reasonably) higher price here, to a lady who has a great choice, and offers a great service : her shoes are slightly more expensive than they would be in France, but she advises and offers great customer service. She told me herself her shoes come from France and Germany. Now if she manages to offer these shoes here at a price that I think is still reasonable to pay, I don't see why other retailers can't do it.
There are lots of ways in which I can be won over and convinced to buy here, for a reasonable, if higher, price : loyalty schemes and great customer service are two obvious ones.
There is a wonderful Irish section on Etsy Ireland (online) where sellers offer inventive or more traditional Irish crafts for very reasonable prices, and I have found that the customer service was wonderful. Any seller who has signed on to this has shown great initiative, and I buy with pleasure and don't question the prices as much.
One feature of this site is that a customer can post an idea "for tender" if you want. Sellers who think they can deliver the goods may bid on the idea, and if the buyer thinks that will suit, they accept and pay the price offered by seller.
I once heard on that farming program on RTE 2 farmers who had separated from their coop to set up their own local milk processing and delivery initiative (I think the milk may have been unpasteurised). I would be the first to register if such an initiative was started in my area.
It's time for Irish retailers to be inventive.

There is a music shop not far from where I live where the advice you get is second to none, the atmosphere in this somewhat dark and dated premises is welcoming, and you feel you're about to discover a treasure at every turn. Same for little bookshops, with sales assistants that know their business, and are so passionate about their products that I want to visit more often, and spend the money without question.

Mountainsandh

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I am a retailer and I am sick to death of "rip off this" and "rip off that" when the person who is claiming that they are ripped off are not dealing with the same store in the same country selling the same branded product or service. It's not a comparable rip off otherwise.
How can you claim something is a rip off when there is €20 difference IN ANOTHER COUNTRY?
Facts are facts. Yes we have a single currency in the Eurozone.
But each country has it's own laws, taxations, levies, stealth taxes, wealth taxes and for the foreseeable future, they always will. So why is is so hard for you to understand that prices vary?
QUOTE]

Isn't that the whole principle of Europe ? So Ireland should benefit from all that Europe has to offer, but not suffer the consequences ? Part of the European idea is that consumers can shop and compare prices wherever they want.
It's time to get out of your comfort zone.
Different situations, different taxes etc... fair enough.
Did it occur to you that there might be problems French retailers face that you might not, as an Irish retailer ? Is it possible that French retailers had to lower their profit margins too when hard times hit ?

Is it possible that part of the reason why prices are lower in France ( for example, the bbq) is because customers there will simply not buy at all, unless the price is right ?

borderlinemeath

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Isn't that the whole principle of Europe ? So Ireland should benefit from all that Europe has to offer, but not suffer the consequences ? Part of the European idea is that consumers can shop and compare prices wherever they want.
It's time to get out of your comfort zone.

Did it occur to you that there might be problems French retailers face that you might not, as an Irish retailer ? Is it possible that French retailers had to lower their profit margins too when hard times hit ?

Is it possible that part of the reason why prices are lower in France ( for example, the bbq) is because customers there will simply not buy at all, unless the price is right ?

I very much doubt it, the Company I work for distributes worldwide and the prices vary from country to country not just continent to continent.
Local economic factors that dictate price ie taxation, insurance, warehousing, staff costs are what determines price.

France came out of recession last August along with Germany and the economy has been growing, albeit slowly since then. Consumer confidence in France is much higher than in Ireland/UK as statistics show personal debt is much lower in France. So I do not believe that French retailers are as hard hit as others.

And as for Irish Retailers being in a comfort zone?:eek: Seriously, if you think this then you are even more naive than you come across in some of your previous posts.