Photos of Roma on the door of Vibes and Scribes...

simu

Passing Vibes and Scribes (the quay-side one) yesterday, I noticed they had photos taken on the streets of Cork of Roma gypsies displayed on the shop door along with a “beware” sign. I assume that they must have had run-ins with these particular Roma in the past but... What’s the legal situation regarding the display of such photos? If these people are shoplifting or causing Vibes other trouble, as the display suggests, isn’t that a matter for the Gardaí? It could be interpreted as incitation to racial hatred imo given that all the people in the pictures are wearing the costume of an already often-reviled minority.

Thoughts?

Owen

What does it matter if they're Roma? Petrol stations post CCTV still photos on their walls of thieves, so do supermarkets. Fair play to them for having the balls to do it, and for anyone playing the race card, bugger off. A crook is a crook no matter where they're from.

themonboys

AFAIK If the picture was taken in a public place then the people in those pictures waved their right of privacy however " You may also be found in contempt of court if you publish a photograph that might prejudice the defendant by insinuating his guilt (for example, of him being brought to court in handcuffs), or a photograph that might reveal prior convictions (for example, of the defendant at a previous trial)."

http://www.digitalrights.ie/2006/05/09/photographers-rights/

It's a fine line.

Euro_Kraut

PaintDoctor wrote: »

A crook is a crook no matter where they're from.

Provided the allegation of criminality has been proven in a court of law.

Manach

I'd agree with PaintDoctor. If the photos are of known shoplifters (which given the onus on Irish Courts to hold proceedings in public in non-custodial proceedings : means that their identines are of public-record), then it should not be an issue.

RoundyMooney

They've done the same in Midleton. There are people doing the rounds as well, pretending to collect outside shops on behalf of the "Asthma Society". They'd have trouble breathing alright in an ideal world :mad:

corkcomp

PaintDoctor wrote: »

What does it matter if they're Roma? Petrol stations post CCTV still photos on their walls of thieves, so do supermarkets. Fair play to them for having the balls to do it, and for anyone playing the race card, bugger off. A crook is a crook no matter where they're from.

exactly what that man said! I knew two shops who display pics of shoplifters near the checkout... surely they should not make an exception for roma?

Papa_Lazarou

corkcomp wrote: »

exactly what that man said! I knew two shops who display pics of shoplifters near the checkout... surely they should not make an exception for roma?

Theres a centra or spar up by cisie youngs and they have their walls and doors plastered in pictures of people who have robbed the place.

themonboys

There's an article in todays Echo about this.

Kold

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

Theres a centra or spar up by cisie youngs and they have their walls and doors plastered in pictures of people who have robbed the place.

Their hot chicken rolls have dipped in quality

bladebrew

the shop beside the post office on sundays well had photos in the window of people that were shoplifting, im not sure if they are still there though, all the people in those photos were wearing tracksuits:),

normally photos of these type are from cctv stills though not pics taken on the street,

Papa_Lazarou

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

Theres a centra or spar up by cisie youngs and they have their walls and doors plastered in pictures of people who have robbed the place.

They have a sign inside warning folks that they will do that

simu

themonboys wrote: »

There's an article in todays Echo about this.

Ah, I missed that - what was the gist of it?

JohnK

I didnt hear it myself but apparently there was a good bit on 96FM about it on Friday with a follow-up today that I did hear some of – its still going on at the time of this post btw.

Basically the owner of the shop is saying herself and her staff have repeatedly seen people stealing from the shop so in some cases shes taken photos of the people to display in the window. Not showing them stealing or anything just photos to show their faces. Since all those in the photos are Romany gypsies an anti-racism crowd is complaining and now talking about picketing the shop.

The shops main problem though that other shops aren’t coming up against is that they dont have any independent evidence of the alleged thefts only staff reports claiming they witnessed it. Their CCTV apparently was only focused on hidden corners and the till so they've got nothing on that.

Today the shop says over the weekend some of these Romany claiming to represent the anti-racism crowd entered the shop, shouted at staff then took down the photos and ripped them up.

themonboys

simu wrote: »

Ah, I missed that - what was the gist of it?

JohnK basically covered it all above. There was also a chap from a hairdressers on Neil today and something similar happened to him last week. They (Romas) burst into the salon, surrounded a costumer,shouted abuse at her and waved newspapers in her face. He intervened and then they left, it took all of 30 seconds. As you can guess, IPhone gone. Fair-play to him he replaced the phone for the customer, over 500 euros worth.

Some do gooder muppet was on the radio about how it was a minority bla bla bla. They are working with a liason person to establish the needs etc of the folks. They need (imo) to be locked up. They don't seem to be about selling flowers or begging as much these days though, weird.

fastrac

Owner talking to Joe on the liveline.

Cadyboo

RoverJames wrote: »

Some do gooder muppet was on the radio about how it was a minority bla bla bla. They are working with a liason person to establish the needs etc of the folks. They need (imo) to be locked up. They don't seem to be about selling flowers or begging as much these days though, weird.

They kept getting arrested for selling the flowers so now they rob things!
Was outside havanas one night sitting on the ground (as you do ) and 4 of them came over to me, trying to sell flowers. Me being a little drunk and stupid opened my bag and took out 2 euro. 3 of them got closer to me, and 1 girl, who was really pretty with fab english gave out to them and they backed off. She then gave me the flower and never took the money.
Now I had full control of my myself so if anything happened I would have lost it!
And so my point is, there are some with morals.

Cadyboo

Cadyboo wrote: »

Was outside havanas one night sitting on the ground (as you do )

Smoker me thinks :P

Cadyboo

RoverJames wrote: »

Smoker me thinks :P

Yep, and a girl, so heels hurt!! lol

Gigiwagga

I heard the discussion on Liveline today. I find it bizarre that people from a particular country or ethnic background can exploit the racism card when they are caught short. This is clearly about individuals using belligerence and hostility to steal from a store. The anti-racist groups are tormenting the store because of this, and are being ridiculous and narrow minded.

corkcomp

Gigiwagga wrote: »

I heard the discussion on Liveline today. I find it bizarre that people from a particular country or ethnic background can exploit the racism card when they are caught short. This is clearly about individuals using belligerence and hostility to steal from a store. The anti-racist groups are tormenting the store because of this, and are being ridiculous and narrow minded.

+1

digme

PaintDoctor wrote: »

What does it matter if they're Roma? Petrol stations post CCTV still photos on their walls of thieves, so do supermarkets. Fair play to them for having the balls to do it, and for anyone playing the race card, bugger off. A crook is a crook no matter where they're from.

You sir are a dying breed,fair play to common sense and courage.

CantGetNoSleep

Sometimes these anti-racist groups do more to incite my absolute disgust at certain classes of people - particularly ones that defend blatant disregard of the law by these people. It promotes racism more than anything I think

babo9

RoverJames wrote: »

Papa_Lazarou wrote:

Theres a centra or spar up by cisie youngs and they have their walls and doors plastered in pictures of people who have robbed the place.

They have a sign inside warning folks that they will do that

They used to have a sign saying if you used the bank machine without buying in the shop they'd put up your pic!! :eek: I often wondered if that's why there's so many pics...
Surely that's illegal, considering it's AIBs machine, I once mentioned it to AIB when I happened to be talking to someone in there and they said they weren't sure, that I'd either have to confront the shop or the garda!!

corkcomp

babo9 wrote: »

They used to have a sign saying if you used the bank machine without buying in the shop they'd put up your pic!! :eek: I often wondered if that's why there's so many pics...
Surely that's illegal, considering it's AIBs machine, I once mentioned it to AIB when I happened to be talking to someone in there and they said they weren't sure, that I'd either have to confront the shop or the garda!!

thats a whole other debate but im certian the shop owner gets the final say re the usage of in store atm machines.. the bank are providing them as a service the same way aib provide laser machines.. the reason most shops install an atm is so they can lodge their takings into it and it saves going to the bank

missfrilly

I've had personal experience with each member of this gang.They would come into the shop I worked in at least 5 times a day,each time attempting to rob and be abusive verbally and physically to the staff and sometimes other customers.We had video evidence,witnesses and once a Guard even came in with a bag full of stuff they had taken from the place with the tags still on.And yet there were no convictions.

We did have enough however to refuse them entry.They had been made aware of this by the guards and the shop manager and staff but they continued to come in time and time again.The gang pictured plus one other woman who I didn't see in the pictures are the ONLY Roma who gave us trouble.They would intimidate other non gang member Roman. We also had trouble with white Irish people who once caught were also told not to come back to the shop.

I'm not sure what can be done .Maybe the guards' hands are tied as the courts probably just fine them or leave them out after a day or two. This shop owner must have been driven to distraction .It is an awful feeling to be constantly intimidated in your work place and this gang are relentless.I understand that the women were not convicted in this case but I absolutely know how the staff must feel.I agree that was wrong to put the photos up but there was probably nothing left to do.

There is no point saying just bar them, you can't ,they just keep coming back.There is no point saying oh get a security guard , shops can't afford to hire them. We asked the guards to patrol the street our shop was on , they said they would but never did.We asked again -and nothing.

Papa_Lazarou

babo9 wrote: »

They used to have a sign saying if you used the bank machine without buying in the shop they'd put up your pic!! :eek: I often wondered if that's why there's so many pics...
Surely that's illegal, considering it's AIBs machine, I once mentioned it to AIB when I happened to be talking to someone in there and they said they weren't sure, that I'd either have to confront the shop or the garda!!

Never used the atm in there but that's just silly imo. Although he does have some sort of right. With in-store atms the store themselves actually keep the atms topped up with money and then the banks "refund" them the money that has been taken out. And there isn't another atm for a fair aul distance around there so there was probably a lot of people coming in and using it and not purchasing anything.

Papa_Lazarou

missfrilly wrote: »

.I agree that was wrong to put the photos up but there was probably nothing left to do.

In no way is it illegal or wrong to put up a photo of someone that you caught robbing from your store.

missfrilly

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

In no way is it illegal or wrong to put up a photo of someone that you caught robbing from your store.

I would have thought you'd have to have a conviction no? If no then fair enough.

Papa_Lazarou

missfrilly wrote: »

I would have thought you'd have to have a conviction no? If no then fair enough.

I wouldn't say so as they posted them up within there own shop and im sure they would only stick them up if they were sure what they had seen. Ain't libelous if its what the owner saw.