Excellent Article about Barstoolers.

wobblyknees

OPENROAD wrote: »

It may well be, in that case why does it bother you who that more people are not supporting LOI if you don't want to get more fans following the league

I'm not sure I understand the question.

_blank_

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

False dichotomy; it could be a lot more welcoming to newbies without sacrificing atmosphere or whatever else traditional football fans cherish.

How is it unwelcoming to newbies?

One story in this thread, which seems to be an anomoly, or a fabrication.

you yourself have admitted that you went to a grand total of one LoI game in a "grim" Bray.

should LoI teams install the same facilities as they have in The Emirates? With what money.

Teams have been trying to buy the best players available for a decade now, trying to entice punters through the gates, but it hasn't worked.

No matte what the clubs do, you and people like you are just not going to support any team in the LoI.

I agree clubs need to go for a younger audience.

smackbunnybaby

Third_Echelon wrote: »

I played for my local club in the Meath & District league and I support Everton. Does that make me a barstooler?

I also follow teams from many different countries that I have come across on my travels... I follow American Football. I don't have a local American Football
team? Do I?

Yes

and

Meath Mucksavages

wobblyknees

Des wrote: »

How is it unwelcoming to newbies?

One story in this thread, which seems to be an anomoly, or a fabrication.

you yourself have admitted that you went to a grand total of one LoI game in a "grim" Bray.

should LoI teams install the same facilities as they have in The Emirates? With what money.

Teams have been trying to buy the best players available for a decade now, trying to entice punters through the gates, but it hasn't worked.

No matte what the clubs do, you and people like you are just not going to support any team in the LoI.

I agree clubs need to go for a younger audience.

It's too late to capture the younger audience as they have been watching sky sports for years with their fathers!

3hn2givr7mx1sc

wobblyknees wrote: »

It's too late to capture the younger audience as they have been watching sky sports for years with their fathers!

What about the younger ones?

Radharc na Sleibhte

SantryRed wrote: »

You're gas.


I don't have any problem with people supporting an English team, none at all. But why they can't support an LOI team as well is beyond me tbh.

.....because its no better than Sunday League and I already play for one of them.....

L'prof

wobblyknees wrote: »

It's too late to capture the younger audience as they have been watching sky sports for years with their fathers!

I don't believe that for a second. I'd be fairly certain, regardless of what English club you support, that as a father you'd be much more likely to try and encourage your son to play football for local teams and probably bring them to a local match a lot quicker than over to England! You'd obviously try and get them to support whatever team you've been following your whole life too.

Radharc na Sleibhte

Madworld wrote: »

Right our National Team has been a shambles down throught the years. Would you start supporting the English team because of it?

No, er, I'm Irish.
So obviously my NATIONAL team is, er, Ireland....!!

gosplan

I have very confused feelings about this. I sometimes watch the LOI in the pub.

Radharc na Sleibhte

SantryRed wrote: »

:pac:

One person! One person and you say it's everyone.

Oh, sorry, the same two people then.

wobblyknees

jasonorr wrote: »

I don't believe that for a second. I'd be fairly certain, regardless of what English club you support, that as a father you'd be much more likely to try and encourage your son to play football for local teams and probably bring them to a local match a lot quicker than over to England! You'd obviously try and get them to support whatever team you've been following your whole life too.

If you were involed with schoolboy football you'd have a different opinion.

Pepe LeFrits

Des wrote: »

How is it unwelcoming to newbies?

One story in this thread, which seems to be an anomoly, or a fabrication.

you yourself have admitted that you went to a grand total of one LoI game in a "grim" Bray.

should LoI teams install the same facilities as they have in The Emirates? With what money.

Teams have been trying to buy the best players available for a decade now, trying to entice punters through the gates, but it hasn't worked.

No matte what the clubs do, you and people like you are just not going to support any team in the LoI.

I agree clubs need to go for a younger audience.

I'll ignore the you and people like you bit Des, sounds a bit catty.

Yep, the game I went to was absolutely dire, and there's not a lot the clubs can do about that. Had that been the only issue I had with it, would I have gone again? I dunno. It's a hypothetical. When that was added on to the general experience around the game, I wasn't in any rush to go back. First half I was sat just in front of a group of St Pats fans, one of whom kept elbowing me in the head - not in a violent way, just in a nudging 'I don't give a **** that you're sitting there' kind of way. Maybe it was naive of me to sit there next to the away fans but when I arrived the area was totally empty and unmarked. Went for a cup of tea at half time and some little toerag ****ed a rock the size of a golf ball into the stall that narrowly missed me (well, a slight graze) and the girls working inside. Nobody gave a ****e, besides the shrieking tea ladies. Second half I moved to the end nearer the exit and there were more gurriers fannying about and causing trouble next to me, no interest in the game at all.

Maybe it's just a Bray thing.

OPENROAD

wobblyknees wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand the question.

My point is that LOI clubs have to market themselves better if they want to get greater numbers attending matches, but you said you are not in favour of the greater branding /product element, sadly that is a reality of the modern world. You have to try and get people when they are young to attend matches, do that and you will have them for life, to do nothing and simoly rant about supporting your local team will not get you the numbers you want sadly.

wobblyknees

MikeySligo wrote: »

.....because its no better than Sunday League and I already play for one of them.....

Who do you play for?

Frisbee

wobblyknees wrote: »

It could also be because you have an actual reason for supporting this team.

But according to some on this thread I also have an actual reason for supporting a LOI club over Arsenal, as they are closer to me.

Yet I feel no attachment to a LOI club even having gone to games.

I suppose Rovers would be my local LOI team, I might go to one of their games during the summer as my mate and his bro got season tickets and usually one of them can't go. But I doubt it will change my views and make me support them.

Jazzy

Des wrote: »

No matter what the clubs do, you and people like you are just not going to support any team in the LoI.

and who do you blame for that?

UnitedIrishman

gustavo wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that!

Guess you don't remember the chants of "Argentina, Argentina, Argentina" by United fans who backed Beckham after 1998?

****ing sick of some of the attitudes on here that think that the sun shines out of their arse because of who they support.

gosplan

OPENROAD wrote: »

My point is that LOI clubs have to market themselves better if they want to get greater numbers attending matches, but you said you are not in favour of the greater branding /product element, sadly that is a reality of the modern world. You have to try and get people when they are young to attend matches, do that and you will have them for life, to do nothing and simoly rant about supporting your local team will not get you the numbers you want sadly.

I disagree. The LOI will always be poorly supported. It's like trying to sell that fizzy TK stuff beside a Coke vending machine.

wobblyknees

OPENROAD wrote: »

My point is that LOI clubs have to market themselves better if they want to get greater numbers attending matches, but you said you are not in favour of the greater branding /product element, sadly that is a reality of the modern world. You have to try and get people when they are young to attend matches, do that and you will have them for life, to do nothing and simoly rant about supporting your local team will not get you the numbers you want sadly.

It all depends on how you define 'market'. There is a very skewed view of Irish football imo. Many, many epl games are boring and unwatchable yet we lap up the sky sports driven media hype. On the other hand, for example, those who saw bohemians vs galway last week would have witnessed a very exciting game of football. If people opened their eyes, although there might not be the most amazing stadiums, the standard of football in Ireland is excellent nowadays.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

wobblyknees wrote: »

It all depends on how you define 'market'. There is a very skewed view of Irish football imo. Many, many epl games are boring and unwatchable yet we lap up the sky sports driven media hype. On the other hand, for example, those who saw bohemians vs galway last week would have witnessed a very exciting game of football. If people opened their eyes, although there might not be the most amazing stadiums, the standard of football in Ireland is excellent nowadays.

No it isn't.

Reganio 2

Is this thread just a spunk fest for Gavin Shels to thank any post that remotly likes LOI and dosn't like English teams?

gosplan

OP wrote:

Excellent article

wobblyknees wrote: »

the standard of football in Ireland is excellent nowadays.

What is it with this thread?

excellent –adjective
1.
possessing outstanding quality or superior merit; remarkably good.

flahavaj

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Is this thread just a spunk fest for Gavin Shels to thank any post that remotly likes LOI and dosn't like English teams?

That and it encapsulates perfectly how most of the LOI fans who post here do more harm to the league they claim to love than good, with their inane and tedious drivel.

_blank_

Brian Capture wrote: »

Monaghan United obviously. :rolleyes:

Well hang on a minute, are you rolling your eyes at the suggestion that someone from Cavan should support a team from Monaghan?

Is it not equally as "rolleyes inducing" for them to support a team from another country, never mind another county?

There's a poster on this forum who is from Roscommon and supports Longford Town, home and away. So it's not unheardof

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Des wrote: »

Is it not equally as "rolleyes inducing" for them to support a team from another country, never mind another county?

So for those of us who don't have a local team, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't?

gosplan

baz2009 wrote: »

So for those of us who don't have a local team, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't?

You just need to start up your own LOI club. Any other involvement with football would simply be bandwagon jumping.

Actually, that's what happened to Mick Wallace. Despite bringing (and funding) teams of kids over to train in Italy and being heavily involved in youth football, he could just never justify the fact that his no.1 team were Juventus to the LOI brigade on boards ... so he started up Wexford Youths.

Dub13

An Irish Manchester United “fan” would simply adore a player like Wayne Rooney every weekend by wearing their replica jerseys with “Rooney 10″ on the back, however when it comes to Rooney lining up in the white of England, they want to see him lose.

Its not rocket science,LOI fans keep making this same point.Its the equivalent of a Chelsea fan hating Gerrard but wanting to see him do well for England.

_blank_

baz2009 wrote: »

So for those of us who don't have a local team, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't?

Look, I'm not here beating some LoI drum, I've learned that's a futile path to go down, but when someone posts something that ridiculous, it needs pointing out.

I don't really care who people support, I just don't like when they make assumptions about the LoI on the basis of going to one, two or three games. I mean, if I was basing my opinion of the EPL on a Wolves -v- Blackburn match, and calling it a shít league, I'd be rightly called all manner of names, I'd be a fool to do that, and people who say that the LoI is a shít league on the same basis are complete idiots.

Also, comparing the LoI to the EPL/La Liga is retarted in the extreme, one players wages in the EPL would be enough to keep a couple of LoI clubs going for a year or two.

People who aren't regulars at LoI games have expectations that are too high when they do go to matches, and come away disappointed. They expect the same as they see on TV when they watch the EPL, they expect comfortable seats, they complain about the cold, they complain about the standard of football.

There is zero money in the LoI, it can't be as good as the EPL.

It is what it is though, and some people love it for what it is.

I started to properly support Shels less than a decade ago, when I started to go down to Tolka Park, I complained about the players and the cold, I was an idiot.

The difference is though, that I kept at it. It takes time to get into it. Luckily I had a decent bunch of lads to go with, who were already regulars.

Instead of going to one or two games and then writing it off, I think people should find an LoI fan and go with them for a while. Three months or so, maybe a couple of aways. Then judge.

wobblyknees

baz2009 wrote: »

No it isn't.

Spoken like a true football fan.

Brian Capture

Dub13 wrote: »

Its not rocket science,LOI fans keep making this same point.Its the equivalent of a Chelsea fan hating Gerrard but wanting to see him do well for England.

an Irish or English Chelsea fan?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

@gosplan, I'm 16 and still in school, fat chance of me setting up a LoI club.

--

I get what you're saying Des, I have no problem standing in unsheltered, cold stadiums, I've done it plenty of times for soccer and GAA matches, the majority not even in a stadium.:p

But, I can't support a local LoI team, because I don't have one. I support the local amateur team whenever I get the chance, it was easy for me to support them because they played in the field beside me and I knew 10 of the players. But I want to try and help the LoI become a better league and thus making Ireland a better footballing nation, so I'm gonna go to any Rovers game I can in June, July and August.

wobblyknees wrote: »

Spoken like a true football fan.

No matter how big an LoI head you are, you can't say the quality of football is "excellent", the majority of games are shít to watch for a neutral.

wobblyknees

baz2009 wrote: »

No matter how big an LoI head you are, you can't say the quality of football is "excellent", the majority of games are shít to watch for a neutral.

I'm far far from being a loi 'head'. I find it very hard to understand how a young man like yourself can justify making a sweeping statement like 'the majority of games are shít to watch for a neutral'. How can you possibly know?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

wobblyknees wrote: »

I'm far far from being a loi 'head'. I find it very hard to understand how a young man like yourself can justify making a sweeping statement like 'the majority of games are shít to watch for a neutral'. How can you possibly know?

I watch them.

smackbunnybaby

baz2009 wrote: »

I watch them.

yeah, but how do you know?
We can all watch games, but how do we now if they are good or not?

wobblyknees

baz2009 wrote: »

I watch them.

Care to elaborate?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

wobblyknees wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

Hoofball is a term I've heard used.

That is as far as I'll, because I may be young but I'm wise enough to know that it is pointless to wastee my time and energy arguing with people like you when I could be doing something more constructive.:)

wobblyknees

baz2009 wrote: »

Hoofball is a term I've heard used.

That is as far as I'll, because I may be young but I'm wise enough to know that it is pointless to wastee my time and energy arguing with people like you when I could be doing something more constructive.:)

It must be true so.

CSF

Terrible article, in the sense that its pretty much what anyone could have written in a post on this forum, but what he is saying is true. Its just not very witty or insightful which is something you'd hope for in an article.

applehunter

CSF wrote: »

Terrible article, in the sense that its pretty much what anyone could have written in a post on this forum, but what he is saying is true. Its just not very witty or insightful which is something you'd hope for in an article.

Feel the same way. These kind of articles make me cringe at this stage.

Remember the website HospitalPass had some similar themed articles but they were written so well and with humour that it got the point accross with a bite.

Dub13

Brian Capture wrote: »

an Irish or English Chelsea fan?

Why does it matter..?the point still stands.

Spiritoftheseventies

Des wrote: »

Look, I'm not here beating some LoI drum, I've learned that's a futile path to go down, but when someone posts something that ridiculous, it needs pointing out.

I don't really care who people support, I just don't like when they make assumptions about the LoI on the basis of going to one, two or three games. I mean, if I was basing my opinion of the EPL on a Wolves -v- Blackburn match, and calling it a shít league, I'd be rightly called all manner of names, I'd be a fool to do that, and people who say that the LoI is a shít league on the same basis are complete idiots.

Also, comparing the LoI to the EPL/La Liga is retarted in the extreme, one players wages in the EPL would be enough to keep a couple of LoI clubs going for a year or two.

People who aren't regulars at LoI games have expectations that are too high when they do go to matches, and come away disappointed. They expect the same as they see on TV when they watch the EPL, they expect comfortable seats, they complain about the cold, they complain about the standard of football.

There is zero money in the LoI, it can't be as good as the EPL.

It is what it is though, and some people love it for what it is.

I started to properly support Shels less than a decade ago, when I started to go down to Tolka Park, I complained about the players and the cold, I was an idiot.

The difference is though, that I kept at it. It takes time to get into it. Luckily I had a decent bunch of lads to go with, who were already regulars.

Instead of going to one or two games and then writing it off, I think people should find an LoI fan and go with them for a while. Three months or so, maybe a couple of aways. Then judge.

I think Shelbourne came very close a few years ago in terms of qualifying for the champions league.
The sad fact is though that unless a league of Ireland team qualifies for CL, attendances are going to improve that dramatically.
At the end of the day Des follow your team. But dont think its realistic to expect folk to stick around for three or four games if the package isnt there.
Standard is improving but coaches need to be a bit more adventurous.

flahavaj

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

I think Shelbourne came very close a few years ago in terms of qualifying for the champions league.
The sad fact is though that unless a league of Ireland team qualifies for CL, attendances are going to improve that dramatically.
At the end of the day Des follow your team. But dont think its realistic to expect folk to stick around for three or four games if the package isnt there.
Standard is improving but coaches need to be a bit more adventurous.

You think LOI teams are too defensive? And thats why attendances are poor?

Krusader

yeah would like to see 2-2-6 formations now and again

CiaranC

flahavaj wrote: »

You think LOI teams are too defensive? And thats why attendances are poor?

lol

Jayob10

Des wrote: »

Well hang on a minute, are you rolling your eyes at the suggestion that someone from Cavan should support a team from Monaghan?

Is it not equally as "rolleyes inducing" for them to support a team from another country, never mind another county?

There's a poster on this forum who is from Roscommon and supports Longford Town, home and away. So it's not unheardof

I agree with alot of what you say Des. however I think its not worth your while forwarding the cause of the LOI. People need to realise this themselves.

Most of the so called Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd fans are not even real fans of those teams so asking them to follow there nearest LOI side is like pissing into the wind really.
I have great respect for Irish fans of UK teams who follow that team through thick and thin and go to important games and meaningless games alike. Thats a true fan.

However the typical "barstooler" as they seem to be called miss out on a very important aspect of the fan experience and thats by being at the games week in week out. Being up to date with the goings on doesnt involve frequenting fan sites online and getting your feel for you clubs goings on that way. You need to hear the discussion in the stands with real fans.

I have countless friends who are football fanatics, Man Utd fans and liverpool fans you name it. And they think they know it all. Yet they have never been to a game, and have no real intention of going. They are just not that interested really.

On the flipside you have die hard LOI fans who preach that all followers of english teams should be ashamed for putting their adopted UK club ahead of a LOI club. I am a die hard Liverpool fan, go to nearly every home game in the league and in europe and the occasional european game home and away. I have supported as long as I can remember. So you cannot say an irish fan cannot have a true affintiy with a UK club.
Now I also go to alot of Athlone Town games aswell and love nothing more than seeing the blue and black win.

On the whole, I think the fans who claim LOI football is ****e are just morons. These are people who want to be entertained. Thats is their goal. They don't usually have loyalty (week in week out, through thick and thin) with their UK clubs either, but they are usually the "expets" on all things either Liverpool or Man Utd when Super Sunday is on down the pub.

Thats the majority of Irish soccer fans for ya i'm afraid.

Xavi6

Crosáidí wrote: »

yeah would like to see 2-2-6 formations now and again

Last Man Back tbh

mayordenis

The 2-2-6 thing made me genuinly laugh other than that this has been a thorough waste of time

CiaranC

Jayob10 wrote: »

I agree with alot of what you say Des. however I think its not worth your while forwarding the cause of the LOI. People need to realise this themselves.

Most of the so called Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd fans are not even real fans of those teams so asking them to follow there nearest LOI side is like pissing into the wind really.
I have great respect for Irish fans of UK teams who follow that team through thick and thin and go to important games and meaningless games alike. Thats a true fan.

However the typical "barstooler" as they seem to be called miss out on a very important aspect of the fan experience and thats by being at the games week in week out. Being up to date with the goings on doesnt involve frequenting fan sites online and getting your feel for you clubs goings on that way. You need to hear the discussion in the stands with real fans.

I have countless friends who are football fanatics, Man Utd fans and liverpool fans you name it. And they think they know it all. Yet they have never been to a game, and have no real intention of going. They are just not that interested really.

On the flipside you have die hard LOI fans who preach that all followers of english teams should be ashamed for putting their adopted UK club ahead of a LOI club. I am a die hard Liverpool fan, go to nearly every home game in the league and in europe and the occasional european game home and away. I have supported as long as I can remember. So you cannot say an irish fan cannot have a true affintiy with a UK club.
Now I also go to alot of Athlone Town games aswell and love nothing more than seeing the blue and black win.

On the whole, I think the fans who claim LOI football is ****e are just morons. These are people who want to be entertained. Thats is their goal. They don't usually have loyalty (week in week out, through thick and thin) with their UK clubs either, but they are usually the "expets" on all things either Liverpool or Man Utd when Super Sunday is on down the pub.

Thats the majority of Irish soccer fans for ya i'm afraid.

Spot on that man

Jazzy

Jayob10 wrote: »

These are people who want to be entertained. Thats is their goal.

so whats yours?

CiaranC

Jazzy wrote: »

so whats yours?

For hundreds of millions fans of the game all over the world, Manchester, Liverpool and London included, football goes well beyond mere entertainment. Its being part of something, its tribal, its about who you are and where you came from, its political, its about volunteering, about community, about perseverance in all situations, about loyalty, its about ritual, history and hope, its about the generations who came before you, and the ones who will come after you, about the mere act of standing in a place, among your peers, men and women and kids just like you, with a common goal - cheering your place against their place. For these hundreds of millions, its a religion.

At least it used to be.