Gardai seizing unrestricted bikes

Teddy Daniels

Show me the law!

It's not big talk or being a hard man to stand up for yourself.

You are making up laws that don't exist so you can excuse your fear of the garda. I'm on bikes 18 years and I'll still look anone in the eye.

Now show me this law!

StinkyMunkey

Well putting the head down and saying your sorry sure beats points on your licence and a fine. But im sure a long walk home with your head held high and your chested puffed up, followed by a few days on our lovely bus service has appeal aswell - not! Ive gotten away with speeding, no tax, driving in bus lanes, going through amber lights with just a simple sorry and head held just low enough to look like i didnt mean it (bear in mind, i dont usually drive like a lunatic, but ive been on bikes since 97, and had my off days).

The Gardi are like everyone else, you give the attitude or make their life hard, and they will return the favour. Granted your always gonna get some puffed up little maggot just 2 days on the job thinking he is robocop or someone on a bad day just looking for someone to take it out on. But from personal experience their not all bad and are willing to cut you some slack, if you have the decency to look a little ashamed when caught with trivial things that dont amount to being public enemt number one.

Anyway, thats my opinion, not gonna work for everyone, but works for me:D.

Teddy Daniels

Try looking people in the eye. Not a critisim.

Now about that law you mentioned earlier........

bladespin

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

Tell that to the guy being told not to do 70km a day on a 125, and you didn't have to wait you chose to wait you coulda gone up north like we all did and done the course.

I had to wait, I didn't chosoe to, well for those who had the money to head north, the rest of us put what we had into the bike and insurance, when I started off my premium was £730 on a RD125 that cost £800 at the time, I was earning £3 per hour to put some perspective on that.


I really don't understand your problem, this is a good thing for us all.

If you were riding bikes back in 94, as you say you were, then you'll remember being raped year on year by Norwich Union. I sure as feck do. Year on year they rose the premium claiming driving standards and claims were out of control here.
These eegits riding around with out licenses or insurance are messing things up for us all, insurance companies are already starting to investigate even small claims from bikes.
Arguing against catching these tossers is unbelieveable, they'll make life harder and harder for the, as you call it, real bikers out there, lads who stump up insurance every year, lads who sat the test and done their time or went off and got the license somewhere else.
The guards are sick cleaning up their mess too, hence the crackdown, a lot to do with a certain chase in Cork not that long ago I'd bet.

The law's very clear about what you're allowed ride and when you're allowed ride it BTW have a read of it sometime. I completely disagree with the restriction but it is the law.

Teddy Daniels

bladespin wrote: »

I had to wait, I didn't chosoe to, well for those who had the money to head north, the rest of us put what we had into the bike and insurance, when I started off my premium was £730 on a RD125 that cost £800 at the time, I was earning £3 per hour to put some perspective on that.


I really don't understand your problem, this is a good thing for us all.

If you were riding bikes back in 94, as you say you were, then you'll remember being raped year on year by Norwich Union. I sure as feck do. Year on year they rose the premium claiming driving standards and claims were out of control here.
These eegits riding around with out licenses or insurance are messing things up for us all, insurance companies are already starting to investigate even small claims from bikes.
Arguing against catching these tossers is unbelieveable, they'll make life harder and harder for the, as you call it, real bikers out there, lads who stump up insurance every year, lads who sat the test and done their time or went off and got the license somewhere else.
The guards are sick cleaning up their mess too, hence the crackdown, a lot to do with a certain chase in Cork not that long ago I'd bet.

The law's very clear about what you're allowed ride and when you're allowed ride it BTW have a read of it sometime. I completely disagree with the restriction but it is the law.

Show me the law that allows cops to take bikes without officially siezing it or arresting you.
Show me where I protect law breakers or support law breakers: if i needed a restriction cert I'd show it to any cop that wants, I have no issue showing my license and I keep my insurance in my jacket but no cunt gets to ride my bike without my permission and i support any rider that feels that way.

bladespin

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

Show me the law that allows cops to take bikes without officially siezing it or arresting you.
Show me where I protect law breakers or support law breakers: if i needed a restriction cert I'd show it to any cop that wants, I have no issue showing my license and I keep my insurance in my jacket but no cunt gets to ride my bike without my permission and i support any rider that feels that way.

There is no law that allows a garda to take your bike without your permission, they will ask you to allow them to test the bike if they suspect it isn't restricted. If it's restriced then just show the cert or some proof of restriction, they're not out to take your bike, just enforcing the law.

You don't have to co-operate but it would make life a lot easier for both the gardai and yourself.

If you refuse then my understanding is they will impound your bike as your insurance is in doubt allowing the power for it to be seized under sec 41 of the traffic act.
If the bike isn't restricted your not allowed drive it on a restricted licence so it gets impounded as you do not hold a licence to drive it.
While it's impounded they will have one of their vehicle inspectors or mechanics check it for evidence of restriction, if it's there they would release it, if it's not then...

Teddy Daniels

So the moral is carry your restriction cert. But both you and smellyshoes suggested that even with a cert they can spin on it. See If the cops take my bike as not restriced then I would sue and I am pretty sure I would win. This is why even if it looks like you have no insurance they give 10 days to produce because we have rights and the courts look down on people riding roughshod over them.

EvilMonkey

bladespin wrote: »

The law's very clear about what you're allowed ride and when you're allowed ride it BTW have a read of it sometime. I completely disagree with the restriction but it is the law.

Ha, No its not. Have a look at the amount of threads on restrictions, with power to weight ratios do you use dry weight or laden weight and whether the way the law is worded does the "or" mean "and" or "or"

As for a cert not being a legal document doesn't make a difference, once its signed by the person that fitted it. A Cheque is just a piece of paper, a contract is just a piece of paper you wouldn't say they don't have a standing in law. A cert is just an arse covering document, that you probably will never need. But extremely valuable if you ever end up in a situation where the legality of your bike comes into question, it doesn't prove a bike is restricted but it is evidence that shows it more likely is. Judges love evidence especially paper evidence and if necessary the person who's name and signature is on it can be called to testify if the cert is valid or not.

OP if you feel your were mistreated by a Garda make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman. Only they can diffidently tell you if you were treated fairly or not.

bladespin

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Ha, No its not. Have a look at the amount of threads on restrictions, with power to weight ratios do you use dry weight or laden weight and whether the way the law is worded does the "or" mean "and" or "or"

If you have to go to that level i doubt your bike will be pulled apart, this is more guided at superbike riders flouting the law than some innocent on a 35bhp gs500

EvilMonkey wrote: »

As for a cert not being a legal document doesn't make a difference, once its signed by the person that fitted it

Yes, my point was that even a cert can be challenged if the garda thinks it's false. The vast majority of the time the garda will be satisfied and send you on your way, try telling him/her their job and things change. Both cheques and contracts are legal documents BTW.

Teddy, they can take your bike, examine it and hand it back to you. If you think that would be grounds enough to even bring a case to court you're very mistaken, even then the gardai will site why his suspicions were aroused - you refusing a test and unable to supply the cert to satisfy the suspicion, judge will take a very dim view of you wasting his and the gardai's time.
Do you even understand the grounds to sue someone? Even the no win no fee lads would run a mile from a comedy like that.
The gardai are responsible for enforcing the laws of the state, you are responsible for allowing them to fulfill that duty.

Point of it all is fit the bloody things, the bike will still be 10 times more fun and excitement than any car. Once they're fitted you can rest in the knowledge that you're in the right regardless.

Teddy Daniels

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Ha, No its not. Have a look at the amount of threads on restrictions, with power to weight ratios do you use dry weight or laden weight and whether the way the law is worded does the "or" mean "and" or "or"

I was gonna say.:D

Teddy Daniels

bladespin wrote: »

If you have to go to that level i doubt your bike will be pulled apart, this is more guided at superbike riders flouting the law than some innocent on a 35bhp gs500


Yes, my point was that even a cert can be challenged if the garda thinks it's false. The vast majority of the time the garda will be satisfied and send you on your way, try telling him/her their job and things change. Both cheques and contracts are legal documents BTW.

Teddy, they can take your bike, examine it and hand it back to you. If you think that would be grounds enough to even bring a case to court you're very mistaken, even then the gardai will site why his suspicions were aroused - you refusing a test and unable to supply the cert to satisfy the suspicion, judge will take a very dim view of you wasting his and the gardai's time.
Do you even understand the grounds to sue someone? Even the no win no fee lads would run a mile from a comedy like that.
The gardai are responsible for enforcing the laws of the state, you are responsible for allowing them to fulfill that duty.

Point of it all is fit the bloody things, the bike will still be 10 times more fun and excitement than any car. Once they're fitted you can rest in the knowledge that you're in the right regardless.

They cannot sieze your vehicle without cause, yes i understand the legal system and Judges don't take dim views of people standing for their rights.

look we are in circles here; anyone who has to have their bike restricted: please get it restricted and carry the cert.
if you believe I'm right then don't let them have a spin if you believe blade is right then do but neither of us will have any sympathy if yer riding without a license and insurance.

bladespin

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

They cannot sieze your vehicle without cause, yes i understand the legal system and Judges don't take dim views of people standing for their rights.

look we are in circles here; anyone who has to have their bike restricted: please get it restricted and carry the cert.
if you believe I'm right then don't let them have a spin if you believe blade is right then do but neither of us will have any sympathy if yer riding without a license and insurance.

You don't have to let them drive the bike, said already, it just makes life a lot easier for everyone, if you had actually read my post you'd have seen that bit. The can seize the bike on suspicion etc etc, they don't need any proof just suspicion, how credible that suspicion needs to be would be up to the duty sargent but if you're talking to them you have a problem either way.

I just can't understand why have you got such a problem with the gardai doing their job? Asking to test the bike isn't abusing anyone's rights.

Judges take a dim view of people who make up their own law, everytime, believe me. Accusing a garda of a civil rights violation for asking for a ride of you bike would be something to witness in court, I could sell tickets.
You'd be in contempt from the second you or your solicitor went to speak though.

Anyhoo, it's been fun, best thread in this section for a good while, stay safe and don't mention cages lol, oops sorry;)
Totally agree with your last statement, we're ok so can argue the toss but if you're supposed to have washers in there put them in.

Teddy Daniels

bladespin wrote: »

You don't have to let them drive the bike, said already, it just makes life a lot easier for everyone, if you had actually read my post you'd have seen that bit. The can seize the bike on suspicion etc etc, they don't need any proof just suspicion, how credible that suspicion needs to be would be up to the duty sargent but if you're talking to them you have a problem either way.

I just can't understand why have you got such a problem with the gardai doing their job? Asking to test the bike isn't abusing anyone's rights.

Judges take a dim view of people who make up their own law, everytime, believe me. Accusing a garda of a civil rights violation for asking for a ride of you bike would be something to witness in court, I could sell tickets.
You'd be in contempt from the second you or your solicitor went to speak though.

Anyhoo, it's been fun, best thread in this section for a good while, stay safe and don't mention cages lol, oops sorry;)
Totally agree with your last statement, we're ok so can argue the toss but if you're supposed to have washers in there put them in.

I have a problem with young bikers being made to feel they have to let a cop ride their bike and as fer cage talk; try suggesting you let them on yer bike over there ,lol.

bladespin

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

I have a problem with young bikers being made to feel they have to let a cop ride their bike and as fer cage talk; try suggesting you let them on yer bike over there ,lol.

Nothing wrong with young riders (or any age for that matter) having a little respect for the gardai, I've yet to be intimidated by a garda and I've been driving nearly 20 years.

Over there there's a more mature outlook, they have me to see to that if it's good for bikers then ok. The days of them and us are long gone, the gardai are just trying to do a job that'll benefit us all.

KamiKazi

bladespin wrote: »

Nothing wrong with young riders (or any age for that matter) having a little respect for the gardai, I've yet to be intimidated by a garda and I've been driving nearly 20 years.

Over there there's a more mature outlook, they have me to see to that if it's good for bikers then ok. The days of them and us are long gone, the gardai are just trying to do a job that'll benefit us all.

Respect has to be earned, and the yokel Garda who tries to blag a spin on a z0mg rap1d bike will get none from me.

hobochris

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

Show me the law that allows cops to take bikes without officially siezing it or arresting you.

Section 20 of the road traffic act, 1961.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0020.html

When fitted the restrictor is part of the bike, So if the Garda, having been told the bike is restricted feels the restrictor is faulty or needs to be tested he may inspect the bike, at the roadside this would mean riding the bike as part of his/her inspection,to check it is restricted and the restrictor is functioning correctly.

Now where you can challenge this, is if the Garda find anything that leads them to form the opinion that the restrictor is faulty or not present, as they have no relevant qualification such as mechanic or engineers qualification to back up their opinion.

bladespin

hobochris wrote: »

Now where you can challenge this, is if the Garda find anything that leads them to form the opinion that the restrictor is faulty or not present, as they have no relevant qualification such as mechanic or engineers qualification to back up their opinion.

No need to challenge, they're unlikely to summons you for an offence based on the test they carry out, they will probably impound the bike on suspicion and have a garda mechanic or inspector check it.

KamiKazi

It would get really interesting on a fuel injection bike with a Power Commander, default map set to max out @ 33BHP but switchable to a more powerful map.

bladespin

KamiKazi wrote: »

It would get really interesting on a fuel injection bike with a Power Commander, default map set to max out @ 33BHP but switchable to a more powerful map.

That'd be lots of fun aritey, I would imagine that would be fine though.

As long as you can show the bike could be and was restricted to 33bhp the garda won't be too bothered, it's not NCIS.

Though you should know the epprom would carry a time stamp so if the FBI ever got involved you'd be in trouble, they would probably be able to track you via gps through your phone to detect your given speed at any time -course that would cost an AWFUL lot moer than the €80 + 2pp fine lol

StinkyMunkey

The Gardi dont have a problem with young riders, they will stop your regardless of age if they think you have broken the law or they think you have something to hide. Far as im aware, if your insurance says your bike is restricted and the bike is not, your insurance is null and void.

And from being young once myself, i know of the pitfalls of having a very powerful bike with little sense to go with it. Either way, if a gardi stops me and wants to ride my bike, i couldnt care less, ive nothing to hide. He probably be sorry he did take it for a spin, cause id probably stand there woffling to him half the day.

KamiKazi

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

The Gardi dont have a problem with young riders, they will stop your regardless of age if they think you have broken the law or they think you have something to hide. Far as im aware, if your insurance says your bike is restricted and the bike is not, your insurance is null and void.

I'm not so sure. I know everyone says it but I think for the most part it's scaremonging by the insurance companies to decrease payouts.

Do they examine every vehicle in the event of a claim?

Tyres .2 of a MM below legal thread depth?
L plates displayed on bike / car?
L driver on motorway?
L driver crashes with no accompanying licenced driver?

Where do they draw the line? As long as you don't lie to the insurance company I can't see them bringing it to court.

Teddy Daniels

hobochris wrote: »

Section 20 of the road traffic act, 1961.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0020.html

When fitted the restrictor is part of the bike, So if the Garda, having been told the bike is restricted feels the restrictor is faulty or needs to be tested he may inspect the bike, at the roadside this would mean riding the bike as part of his/her inspection,to check it is restricted and the restrictor is functioning correctly.

Now where you can challenge this, is if the Garda find anything that leads them to form the opinion that the restrictor is faulty or not present, as they have no relevant qualification such as mechanic or engineers qualification to back up their opinion.

that is not what that says
inspect is different to drive

Dorsanty

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

that is not what that says
inspect is different to drive

Huh, seems they do have the powers after all,

20.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána observes a mechanically propelled vehicle or combination of vehicles in a public place and he suspects that there is a defect affecting the vehicle or combination which is such that it is, when in use, a danger to the public or, in the case of a public service vehicle, there is a defect affecting it which is such that either it is a danger to the public or it is rendered unfit for the carriage of passengers, he may inspect and examine the vehicle or combination and, for the purpose of carrying out the inspection and examination, may do all such things and make all such requirements in relation to it as are reasonably necessary.

For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section and without prejudice to the generality of the powers conferred thereby, a member of the Garda Síochána may—
[GA]

( b ) drive a mechanically propelled vehicle or combination of vehicles for a reasonable time and distance,

Take your pick, a Garda could easily argue that a rider not allowed on a full power bike makes the bike a danger to the public when in use. Or that the failure of the required restrictor is a defect.

Teddy Daniels

Having an extra 100 ponies is not a defect cannot be interpereted as such.

The Nutty M

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

Having an extra 100 ponies is not a defect cannot be interpereted as such.

I think Teddy you should back down,you've been asking for someone to show you where it states in law that a garda can drive your bike from the start of this thread and it has been shown to you.Now you come along and are still arguing.
If you've nothing to hide,why be an arse to the cop.You're only going to end up with a closer inspection of man and machine,that small numberplate,that loud exhaust,that tinted visor stamped NOT ROAD LEGAL.
Play long and get along,it's not rocket science.:)

bladespin

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

Having an extra 100 ponies is not a defect cannot be interpereted as such.

It would definately be a defect on a restricted bike, restrictor obviously fell out at some stage making the vehicle illegal.

Come on Teddy, that's clutching at straws.

Teddy Daniels

I don't accept the definition of defect. Don't tell me to back down it's for people to decide who the believe as I stared earlier the only point we agree on it that there should be no sympathy for people riding with no license. I have all the licenses I'll ever need so i have nothing to hide but I'll never agree that we should let bikers be treated differently because they're bikers. I once stopped a cop on the street for directions an he gave me a producer. On law that quoted bit is open to interperation and I've had enough experiance with courts etc to see that.

KamiKazi

Kinda related http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2009/November/nov1309-The-33bhp-certificate-rip-off/

bladespin

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

I don't accept the definition of defect. Don't tell me to back down it's for people to decide who the believe as I stared earlier the only point we agree on it that there should be no sympathy for people riding with no license. I have all the licenses I'll ever need so i have nothing to hide but I'll never agree that we should let bikers be treated differently because they're bikers. I once stopped a cop on the street for directions an he gave me a producer. On law that quoted bit is open to interperation and I've had enough experiance with courts etc to see that.

you don't think something's astray if an engine that's supposed to produce 33bhp is producing say 150bhp? Come on man.

I certainly don't abide bikers being targetted by gardai or any other agency but this is a simple vehicle check, that do the same with any cay they suspect isn't what it's sopposed to be.

RosieJoe

What annoys me about this situation is the fact the we put ourselves in it.

All you need to do is go on any of the forums to see thread after thread about removing restictors, driving without L tabbards (if required), modifying bikes without informing your insurance company etc.

I did the Bikesafe course last year and afterwards I was talking to one of the Sergeants. He saw a lid with a biker.ie sticker on it. He knew of the forum and asked if I was a member too.

The Gardai/Insurance Companies/Robbers are not stupid. They all know where to go to get the information they require!