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Gardai seizing unrestricted bikes
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Gardaí in the course of their duties are exempt from most road traffic laws, in saying that if something goes wrong they have to have a very good reason for not obeying the law.
Hmm, can recall a certain accident, no license etc, another performing an illegal U-turn infront of an oncoming motorcycle without lookingand still pardoned, history now except for the victim's families though.
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Sorry but all details are taken from the manufacturers published specifications so that'll be dry weight.Nonsense.
The law specifies no such thing. It specifies a power-to-weight ratio but does not define how power is measured, or how weight is measured (HUGE difference on most large bikes between dry weight and gross vehicle weight) this makes the law unenforceable.
The power requirement is one side of the rule, the power to weight is the other, most who don't have restriction will fall foul of both.Crap. Many bikes are above 33hp but do not need to be restricted because of the power-to-weight rule. A restrictor is not a legal requirement, the legal requirement is to obey the power-to-weight rule which is all but unenforceable if you have a half-comptent lawyer.
Even the might Harley just about sits inside the power to weight rule but change anything (exhausts are fave) and you're the wrong side of the law.
The law's enforcable if a garda decides to enforce it and no matter how good your solicitor is it'll be the judges decision which rule is followed and he's much more likely to side with the gardai than you.
It's all pretty irrelevant anyway, the gardai aren't really interested with the guy/girl on the gs500 that's 4 bhp over the limit, they're after johnny R1, ZX10 etc and no matter how you try to interpret the law all those bikes need to be restricted or filled with lead lol.
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But the legislation doesn't specify that.
Look up the laws on speeding or drink driving, they are very particular to specify what is to be measured and exactly how it is to be measured. If it is not done 100% correctly and there is any doubt at all as to the evidence presented, the case is thrown out (sometimes it goes to an appeal but a decent solicitor will get it thrown out first time.)
The law's clear, what are the gardai to proceed on if not the manufacturers own specifications?
What we're talking about here is grounds for investigation so the published figures are plenty to go on for the gardai to make the decision to seize, they can realease later and not proceed. This isn't trial at the roadside, it's only a preliminary investigation.
Yes, of course, it's a two parter so if you satisyf one then you're ok.True but under Irish law you only have to meet one to be legal.
HD themselves, all manufacturers who either restrict their bikes at factory or claim inside the power to weight rule will tell you that you nullify the legality of the bike if you modify it from standard.Says who?
How can a Garda ride a bike and figure out if it's gained a few hp which pushes it over the limit?Without clearly defined, detailed procedures set out in legislation on exactly what is to be measured, and how (dynos vary a LOT) the law is a nonsense.
Actually, Dyno's don't vary much at all (if calibrated properly and to the correct satndard) any dyno used as evidence would have to be calibrated to the national standard. There's no need to use a dyno anyway unless the rider wants to produce evidence the bike meets the limits themselves but it would be up to the cours whether to allow this.
The procedure is very simple, the bike has a manufacturers stated output, say for example a fireblade, with output power about 123kw and a claimed weight 176kg. if there is no modification to restrict the bike's power out then it doesn't meet the 33bhp rule (obviously) and the power to weight is 0.9631, this is way beyond the 0.16kw/kg so the garda have grounds for summons, the rider can use a dyno to try to prove innocent but it's up to them.I don't condone breaking the law, but I don't support the arbitrary enforcement of badly written legislation either. Everyone, gardai and riders should know EXACTLY where they stand in relation to this issue, the fact that it's been endlessly debated on the Internet for the last 12 years shows that this is not the case.
Gardai do not get to make the law, or 'fill in the blanks' either.
All riders already know exactly where they stand, they are either legal or they're not, it's so simple, I can't believe there are lads still arguing about it.
The gardai don't make it up as they go but they have some disgression so they can choose to turn a blind eye to some.
There is no debate on the subject, the law's written and contrary to all this it's fairly clear, the gardai have only lately realised how to enforce it and they're only doing their jobs in doing this, I fully support them, I'm fed up being labeled thanks to these chancers who think they can shortcut the system and leave all riders who make it their business to be legitimate to pay the price for mis-placed bravado.
Wow, you've been watching waaayyy too much american tv court rubbish and you're really not familiar with our legal system, all judges are biast in some way. They aren't elected so don't hold office :rolleyes:If a judge really is biased, he's not fit to hold his office.
Again if there is evidence of bias, or any weakness in the evidence a good solicitor will win the appeal hands down.
The gardai in the above case would simply produce the maunfacturers specifications for the vehicle and show no effort had been made to restrict.
You'll find it very hard and even more expensive to challange a judge like this, you're talking appeals to the supreme court and even then you'd loose as they are following their directives in bias towards the law and the gardai. This isn't the USA, innocent until proven isn't a statute here.
I wouldn't suggest following this route but if you do you might get the law itself changed so I'd love to see it happen.
I don't understand where people get the idea that the gardai are convicting peolpe on a test ride of the bike, that's laughable, it's just a test to see if the bike needs a proper inspection and test by an approved mechanic.True but if the gardai are effectively making it up as they go along (and ignoring what the law actually says) then you have no guarantee that they are only going to go after those who deserve to be convicted.
As for making it up, where do you get that from? Once again the law's clear, they've copped on to how a superbike performs with and without a restrictor (not that hard really
).
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Have a read of this: http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=150503
Bike was seized and put on a dyno by the cops, not the rider.
(Yes I know it's in the UK but the law is exactly the same)
Yup, that's the UK not here, the law, the police and the courts are different.
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What's to stop someone sticking a bike on a dyno running on three out of four cylinders, getting 33bhp or less printout and then going back to full power?
Shambles of a law.
Same thing that stops a rider putting a restrictor on a bike, getting the cert and then taking it out, the law.
There's nothing that says a garda ot a court has to accpet a dyno report, sure you could photoshop one if you wanted to. The gardai will only accept the print-out if they believe it to be true, the courts would want it independantly verified (might only mean the dyno owner and calibration engineer (me)) swearing a statement.
No differnece between that and riding an 1100 on a A1 license rwally, the law's not to blame it's the clowns that flout it.
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