Restrikes/reproductions

kowloon

What do people make of the below?

http://www.milimem.com/product_info.php?cPath=54_153_158&products_id=3821&osCsid=2c76006a7daa6c1494bf2d91d70304fd

Where do we draw the line between reproduction and fake/forgery?

Has collecting gotten to the point where even the cheapest items are now faked? I remember deciding to steer clear of German items as they were so idely faked, but it seems to be everything now.

Dr Strange

Hi kowloon,

yes, that is a tricky question. I think the main thing would be to differentiate between those who offer reproduction in high quality for the collector and those who reproduce them to pass them off as originals. Most of the reproductions and restrikes have been marked (for example see Goede restrikes/reproductions) so that noone can pass them off as the originals.

Some of the others may not be marked but are sold openly as reproductions.
They can be trickier as the crook can buy these and pass them of as original because the markings are missing.

Difficult situation.

kowloon

I can't help but think that when even current issue badges are being faked that there isn't much hope for the new collector. It only takes the loss of one weeks pocket money to put a young collector off the hobby for life.

Dr Strange

kowloon wrote: »

I can't help but think that when even current issue badges are being faked that there isn't much hope for the new collector. It only takes the loss of one weeks pocket money to put a young collector off the hobby for life.

Yes, it'll certainly make an impression. I fell for some really bad stuff at the beginning myself. You pay your Lehrgeld or apprentice money in one way or another. Certainly, the best way to spent money at the beginning is to invest in lots of literature on the items you want to collect. Saves a lot of hassle. Also joining big collector's fora is a way to find out about stuff but it is always good to have some reference material at hand.

Morlar

Preusse wrote: »

Yes, it'll certainly make an impression. I fell for some really bad stuff at the beginning myself. You pay your Lehrgeld or apprentice money in one way or another. Certainly, the best way to spent money at the beginning is to invest in lots of literature on the items you want to collect. Saves a lot of hassle. Also joining big collector's fora is a way to find out about stuff but it is always good to have some reference material at hand.

Couldn't agree more. Books and forums are the best route to reduce the chances of being burned though this will always happen to some degree or another.

I think everyone has bought items that turned out to be rubbish at one point or another & it's an expensive lesson to learn but it does make you a lot more careful in future.

arnhem44

Restrikes and fakes are one way of deterring people from buying certain types of militaria,I'd be the first to put my hand up and say it put me off collecting German items.

Fuinseog

arnhem44 wrote: »

Restrikes and fakes are one way of deterring people from buying certain types of militaria,I'd be the first to put my hand up and say it put me off collecting German items.

third reich items have become too expensive.

kerryphoto

These fakes/replicas are ruining the medal market in Ireland, it's near impossible to sell an IRA medal without good provenance. any medals without provenance are usually branded as good forgeries.

Fuinseog

kerryphoto wrote: »

These fakes/replicas are ruining the medal market in Ireland, it's near impossible to sell an IRA medal without good provenance. any medals without provenance are usually branded as good forgeries.

are there replicas of PDF service medals about or is ist just the older just that is being reproduced?

FiSe

kerryphoto wrote: »

These fakes/replicas are ruining the medal market in Ireland, it's near impossible to sell an IRA medal without good provenance. any medals without provenance are usually branded as good forgeries.

Replicas aren't fakes.

...as long as they are sold as replicas and as long as the owner of the replicas presenting them in that fasion.
You wouldn't say that all the re-anacment groups are using fakes for their shows, but all knew that they replicate the original equipment as close as possible - or using originals, but i doubt very much that someone would use original WWII or WWI medals for their mud crowling.
I have replica medals on my shelf, but I know that these are replicas, I bought them as a replicas and will always say that these are replicas.
Can't afford original items and, to be honest, I don't have to have originals as those medals are complementing other things which are on the shelf too.

kerryphoto

FiSe wrote: »

Replicas aren't fakes.

Replicas are fakes if there sold as replicas without any mark to differentiate! and this happens all too often, they should at the very least have a mark to show they are replicas, I'm not saying they should stop production of replicas medals and other militaria, I just think they need to be marked accordingly.

FiSe

I disagree, replicas aren't fakes as long as they are sold as replicas. If they are sold as originals, then they are fakes.
I agree, though, that it should be clearly stated that this and that item is replica when presented for sale.

But, we can argue about it till the end of the world

kerryphoto

FiSe wrote: »

I disagree, replicas aren't fakes as long as they are sold as replicas. If they are sold as originals, then they are fakes.
I agree, though, that it should be clearly stated that this and that item is replica when presented for sale.

But, we can argue about it till the end of the world

They just need to be marked, that's all I'm saying, maybe along the rim of the medal, but it has to be something that can't be filed away easily, like an embossed triangle with an R in it, they wouldn't be able to remove a mark like that without damaging the medal! Too many unsuspecting people get ripped off, and were not talking about €40 or €50, some of the medals that are being faked, like the Irish Independence medal are being sold for €600 - €700, I wouldn't like to be the poor sod that buys that fake!

arnhem44

kerryphoto wrote: »

They just need to be marked, that's all I'm saying, maybe along the rim of the medal, but it has to be something that can't be filed away easily, like an embossed triangle with an R in it, they wouldn't be able to remove a mark like that without damaging the medal!

Something like that can never be achieved in todays world.For every maker of these replica's that would be willing to add a mark to an item there's probably dozens more who wouldn't do it.

kerryphoto

Wouldn't it be fare to say then that that's the difference between those making replicas and those making fakes, their not idiots, they know all too well that their medals are being passed off as originals, a high percentage of their customers are probably buying them to sell them on as originals and this is the main reason they don't want to mark them. If they can make counterfeit clothes and other goods illegal then they can at least make sure that companies making these medals in the EU have them marked appropriately, after all it's the collector who pays the price in the end, which is you and me! I know it's impossible to stop them all but we can start by buying from companies that sell properly marked replicas instead of those that sell unmarked replicas which I consider fake.

arnhem44

Wouldn't it be fare to say then that that's the difference between those making replicas and those making fakes

Of course it is,I agree 100%.

a high percentage of their customers are probably buying them to sell them on as originals

Again yes most definitely

If they can make counterfeit clothes and other goods illegal then they can at least make sure that companies making these medals in the EU have them marked appropriately, after all it's the collector who pays the price in the end, which is you and me!

It would be great for all replica's to be marked but again will never happen,it's not just in the E.U. these are been made,there are already millions of replica and reproduction items already on the market many been made with the same moulds and manufacturing processes originals were made with,ageing techniques are widespread also and in some cases it would take an expert to spot a fake or replica.Fakes and replica's are one and the same thing as far as I'm concerned,it's people who sell them as fakes are at fault not the manufacture of them,why?because there's a market for them.

I know it's impossible to stop them all but we can start by buying from companies that sell properly marked replicas instead of those that sell unmarked replicas which I consider fake.

That's entierly up to the individual.what you consider fake another may be perfectly happy with.

TransplantedDub

Do I have to say it...? buyer beware....No prob with replicas of very hard to find museum pieces...so long as its known...I have a few framed myself...$35 for a replica of the same bit of metal that is over a $100 ...original..now tag on the collectable value...dont want it that bad. To be honest in the 25+ years collecting my more valuable stuff did not cost a fortune back then...i'm a cheap ba****d, and I have patience...they will come around...jaysus with the economy the way it is..they will be surfacing on ebay again dont ya know....