Is UK MMA light years ahead of Ireland ?

UltimateMale

I'm not saying Irish guys aren't giving their best or anything like it, but well, it seems that way to me anyway. Obviously their's going to be two big factors when you compare the 2, Britain has a population 10 times bigger, and they have some fantastic coaches there, Roger, Carlson Gracie etc

But still, when you look at how far UK fighters have progressed compared to Ireland, well, it comes as no joy to say that it seems we are light years behind them

cowzerp

We are maybe a few years behind the UK MMA scene but light years is pushing it a bit-:(

Carlson Gracie is based in the U,S as far as i know and Roger as far as im aware has not had a huge impact on MMA, bjj on the other hand he would.

Trashbat

Larger population = larger market = more money = more facilities = better promotions = better exposure for fighters.

My main worry is that an exceptional fighter in Ireland may not get the exposure to be noticed at the right point of their career.

Sid_Justice

A light year is a unit of length, not of time. Ireland and the UK share a land border so they're not really that far away from us.

I'd very loosely speculate, without any facts etc., that there are 10 times as many people involved in MMA in the UK than in Ireland and would guess they're about 10 years ahead of us in MMA development. Actually 20 times more maybe.

Marty Mc

when i read threads like this it makes me laugh..

efr guys have been travelling to and have been beat by and beaten some of the top guys in england or have at the very least shared the same card as some of these fighters..

for example..ross pearson..Andre Winner..chi mills..josie aldo (yes i do mean the same WEC champ)etc..just to name a few..

Guys like aidan marron, greg loughran and micky young (just to name a few)have shared the ring/cage with many of the top guys before alot of the population of ireland knew what mma was..some wins and some loses..

so to say that the UK is light years ahead is silly..

Barry.Oglesby

Our top level would be comparable to theirs just with a smaller pool (that's what having 5million people on an island will do to you).

macnerdy

god I hate to say it but....due to the curse of ryanair been to more training sessions in the uk than here....and have to admit ...from a pure attitude frame of mind the uk is better.
Training here is on such a slower,calmer less intensive affair. I am not going to get involved in the entire Ireland v's Uk thing but the average club here has a lot to learn.
I am not saying we dont have exceptional Irish fighters.....its the club structure I have a prob with.
Comparing Ireland and England on a population/wellfare point of view is pants.It costs a club the same to get the type of instructors in the uk as here, I talking seminars here, its just that most club members wont pay.
From my experience, and this is just a personal view, uk fighters will train with anyone who will give them an edge and make them better fighters, whereas here Irish fighters/clubs get their nickers in a twist over who awarded what belt to whom instead of just learning how to fight.
I could be wrong here and it would be great to be proved wrong.I would especially like to hear from people who have actually trained in the uk and what their experiences were.
Again i would like to say that I hope to be proved wrong.

Mellor

Marty Mc wrote: »

efr guys have been travelling to and have been beat by and beaten some of the top guys in england or have at the very least shared the same card as some of these fighters..

for example..ross pearson..Andre Winner..chi mills..josie aldo (yes i do mean the same WEC champ)etc..just to name a few..

I don't see how appear on the same card is a measure of anything, the range of ability across a card can be huge. I'm not commenting on anyones ability, but I just don't see how that is relevant, no matter how good somebody is.

And as for beating, or being beaten by. Ross Pearson, Che Mills and Jose Also (Brazilian, so ahead of both UK and Ire ) have never fought anybody from Ireland.
Andre winner has, and I believe he lost to Greg Loughran

Tim_Murphy

macnerdy wrote: »

From my experience, and this is just a personal view, uk fighters will train with anyone who will give them an edge and make them better fighters, whereas here Irish fighters/clubs get their nickers in a twist over who awarded what belt to whom instead of just learning how to fight.
I could be wrong here and it would be great to be proved wrong.I would especially like to hear from people who have actually trained in the uk and what their experiences were.
Again i would like to say that I hope to be proved wrong.

I don't know who you are or where you trained in Ireland but what you are saying doesn't fit it with what I've seen in Irish clubs at all. Without exception any club I've trained in here in Ireland and in the UK has had an open door policy with cool people to train with who weren't too worried about how got what belt from where.

I'm not saying every club is like this, just every one I've been too so far.

Marty Mc

Mellor wrote: »

I don't see how appear on the same card is a measure of anything, the range of ability across a card can be huge. I'm not commenting on anyones ability, but I just don't see how that is relevant, no matter how good somebody is.

And as for beating, or being beaten by. Ross Pearson, Che Mills and Jose Also (Brazilian, so ahead of both UK and Ire ) have never fought anybody from Ireland.
Andre winner has, and I believe he lost to Greg Loughran

Comments like this is why these threads make me laugh..

What guys have never fought boys from ireland? I feel that u should go back and have a second look at that statement as u are completetly wrong.
Where did u get your evidence for such a statement?

If im wrong then someone feel free to correct me -

Aidan Marron and Greg both fought Andre Winner..Greg guillotened him and Aidy lost a decision which was televised on Sky. Aidan also fought Chi Mills and Ross Pearson. Micky young fought jose aldo on a show in england.

Although..more losses than wins but the thing is they where in there and the fights where entertaining and these guys should be revered as they where away fighting the best in the UK when most people in Ireland where still doing 'forms and kata's'.

I stand by my statement..light years head - No (but i do take on board and agree with some points raised on this thread)

Per head of the population: approx 5.3 million here and 62million in the Uk..

plus a higher influx of foreign nationals with various training backgrounds on an elevated level in the UK will also have an impact imo.

Probability levels will dictate that they will have more in the top tier of mma..

My final word, its no coincidence that a team of guys from a 'wee club' in antrim have produced some of the best guys in irish mma and have fought some of the best guys around..

DeVore

Sid_Justice wrote: »

A light year is a unit of length, not of time. Ireland and the UK share a land border so they're not really that far away from us.

I'd very loosely speculate, without any facts etc., that there are 10 times as many people involved in MMA in the UK than in Ireland and would guess they're about 10 years ahead of us in MMA development. Actually 20 times more maybe.

A light-year is the distance light travels in a year, but since Einstein's theory of special relativity its been known that space and time are not two different things at all and are actually both part of a thing called space-time, which is very weird stuff.

If you are going to be pedantic...



Getting back on topic.... bigger countries tend to dominant sports for a variety of reasons unless the country is a specialist in them (like GAA in ireland). This need not be the case, look at Irish Rugby beating England repeatedly...

DeV.

Barry.Oglesby

I have no idea what clubs you've trained at macnerdy but having trained at quite a few I can safely say nowhere I've ever gone fits that description.

cowzerp

The UK is ahead of Ireland, but I'd say it's more due to MMA starting earlier there than the UK being bigger. The top clubs in Ireland do produce fighters which are comparable with some of the better fighters in the UK.

Not sure if it's due the UK MMA being further along its development path or not, but I have noticed that unlike Ireland the top grappling places are not necessarily the top MMA places and visa versa.

cowzerp wrote: »

Carlson Gracie is based in the U,S as far as i know and Roger as far as im aware has not had a huge impact on MMA, bjj on the other hand he would.

Carlson died about 4 years ago, but there is a club in london which still bears his name.

Sid_Justice

might be refering to carlson gracie jnr

Kieran81

Marty Mc wrote: »

plus a higher influx of foreign nationals with various training backgrounds on an elevated level in the UK will also have an impact imo.

thats a great point , are irish clubs taking advantage of the amount of experience/knowledge guys from other countries have that we could absorb and benefit from ?

DeVore

macnerdy wrote: »

god I hate to say it but....due to the curse of ryanair been to more training sessions in the uk than here....and have to admit ...from a pure attitude frame of mind the uk is better.
Training here is on such a slower,calmer less intensive affair. I am not going to get involved in the entire Ireland v's Uk thing but the average club here has a lot to learn.
I am not saying we dont have exceptional Irish fighters.....its the club structure I have a prob with.
Comparing Ireland and England on a population/wellfare point of view is pants.It costs a club the same to get the type of instructors in the uk as here, I talking seminars here, its just that most club members wont pay.
From my experience, and this is just a personal view, uk fighters will train with anyone who will give them an edge and make them better fighters, whereas here Irish fighters/clubs get their nickers in a twist over who awarded what belt to whom instead of just learning how to fight.
I could be wrong here and it would be great to be proved wrong.I would especially like to hear from people who have actually trained in the uk and what their experiences were.
Again i would like to say that I hope to be proved wrong.

Ok, I'll take a crack at it

I cant speak to the quality of gyms etc, or the attitude of trainers/trainee's.

But I can prove you wrong on population point.


1. Lets say a truely brilliant person in a field comes along once every million people. You can pick any number/probability you like, but there is some frequency by which "naturals" tend to arise. Lets say 1 in a million.

2. With 4 million people, we'll have 4, (and probably none of them will ever get trained in their field... but thats a different matter).

3. With 60 Million, the UK has 60. That doesnt make any given club in the UK better then any given club here.... no no no, but it DOES mean that when taken as a whole the standard of MMA would be expected, statistically, to be higher across the board.

CAN we produce champions? Yes, of course, there are lots of other factors in there and Ireland, specifically, punches well above its weight when you consider world leaders in science/sports/literature/arts. We are a bright bunch but we cant beat the weight of numbers for ever.


However there IS bad news for the clubs when comparing them with the UK. London has 11 Million people squashed in there. Thats TWICE our country in a very small space. Clubs there will not want for members in general and keeping the finances of the club healthy would be a lot easier there then here, your catchment area is much much bigger and more densely populated.

DeV.

Mellor

Marty Mc wrote: »

If im wrong then someone feel free to correct me -

Aidan Marron and Greg both fought Andre Winner..Greg guillotened him and Aidy lost a decision which was televised on Sky. Aidan also fought Chi Mills and Ross Pearson. Micky young fought jose aldo on a show in england.

You're right all these fights did happen.
But the thread is UK verses Ireland

Isn't Aidan Marron English? Sherdog and wiki both list him as English (and I mean English, not the UK)

Micky young, he's listed as UK.

Greg, as I said fought Andre Winner.



I appreciate that the above guys may or may not consider themselves Irish (I honestly don't know). But my comments were based on what the stats say. Maybe the stats are wrong, maybe not.
But on the face of recognition, it certainly makes it harder to prove ourselves.

Tim_Murphy

Mellor wrote: »

You're right all these fights did happen.
But the thread is UK verses Ireland

Isn't Aidan Marron English? Sherdog and wiki both list him as English (and I mean English, not the UK)

If he is then he has the strangest English accent that I've ever heard.

Mellor wrote: »

Micky young, he's listed as UK.

Greg, as I said fought Andre Winner.



I appreciate that the above guys may or may not consider themselves Irish (I honestly don't know). But my comments were based on what the stats say. Maybe the stats are wrong, maybe not.
But on the face of recognition, it certainly makes it harder to prove ourselves.

All these guys are from Northern Ireland so you could argue that they are part of the UK scene if you wanted. It's a bit of a pointless discussion though. The MMA scene in Ireland doesn't really have a north/south divide and all the guys above have been involved in the scene for years.
Oh, and online fighter stats mightn't be the most accurate things to be basing your opinions of anything on.

Pride Fighter

Mellor wrote: »

Isn't Aidan Marron English? Sherdog and wiki both list him as English (and I mean English, not the UK)

Tom Egan is English according to sherdog. I would not believe that website as far as I'd throw it. Just for the chuckles here http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Tom-Egan-29690

UltimateMale

Sid_Justice wrote: »

A light year is a unit of length, not of time. Ireland and the UK share a land border so they're not really that far away from us.

Sorry Einstein, but I used the term light years just as an expression to emphasize a point. But since your sooo clever, maybe you should have posted this over on the Astronomy forum :rolleyes:

Mellor

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

If he is then he has the strangest English accent that I've ever heard.

Should of put it in commas. I assumed he was born in england when I seen it. Could easily be a mistake, Sherdog isn't exactly a pillar of honestly and reserch.

All these guys are from Northern Ireland so you could argue that they are part of the UK scene if you wanted. It's a bit of a pointless discussion though. The MMA scene in Ireland doesn't really have a north/south divide and all the guys above have been involved in the scene for years.
Oh, and online fighter stats mightn't be the most accurate things to be basing your opinions of anything on.

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that these guys are UK/English, I was just pointing out that statistically thats how they are grouped.
MMA, like most other non mainstream sports, operates under Ireland, nor RoI & NI. Lots of people don't care, and some insist on the NI flag where they do.

Anyway, I don't think Dana is going to rush out and set up TUF Britain Vs Ireland.

Anakin.S

Irish MMA needs more people investing in the sport that don't have an emotional attachment to MMA (people that can make a decision for business reasons)

More coaches that will put their fighter first an not the their gym (I do know most do this but some IMO either hold back good fighters for their own smaller show to draw a crowd or throw a fighter who is not ready into a big show)

Some fighters need to train more like professionals; if you train like an amateur you always will be an amateur. At a couple of shows I've overheard guys talking about fights they are having in the next couple of weeks and they are drinking quite heavily.

Perhaps a governing body? Every Sport that takes itself seriously has one, even darts has one and its not even a sport.

Jason McCabe

I think more competition at the junoir levels is the key. This can be used as the base to build from.

Sometimes I think guys are in to big a rush to get on the big stage.

Look at how long Boxers ply their trade as amateurs.


I'd like to see the MMA league teen section growing more

Mrs Lynch

Jason McCabe wrote: »

I think more competition at the junoir levels is the key. This can be used as the base to build from.

Sometimes I think guys are in to big a rush to get on the big stage.

Look at how long Boxers ply their trade as amateurs.

Cudnt agree more Jason

It makes me mad to read such post yes we are "behind" but there are lots of reasons for this!

To me the key is promotion and finance. Unfortunately we dont have a lot of this :mad: Not all a bad thing because I know of quite a few unsavoury stories of how money was achieved within English promotions.:(

Take the likes of EFR promotions hasnt been one for over a year but I'd say if Mr P posted a Pro show the card would be next to perfect matchmakin, the fans wouldnt be disappointed in the show and then money raised goes to development of club hence fighters such as Greg are produced.

Another key is that "unity" is maintained until we get over the threshold. Again I bring it to the old EFR Fight Team. Altho only a few sessions together annually it say the likes of Mark O'Toole, Tom Haddock, Big C, Rodney Moore, Emmet McNally, Daren Hughes, Greg Loughran, Kevin McAlonan, Micky Young, Steve McCombe, Aidy Marron and Stevie Lynch train together, travel abroad as "team" and achieve results. Between them theys guys won quite a few "English" titles and not on their own turf.

Im using EFR as an example because it is a good one Im definately not taking from other clubs;)

Urs
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