Terracing to return?

RichTea

No

I love this idea. Having been to a couple of games in Germany and Italy I can safely say that 'safe terraces' are great. It's just more jovial and it's far easier to get people involved in a match when they're on their feet.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

No

Rosco1982 wrote: »

What are you trying to say ?

99% of GAA fans don't want to batter the shít out of eachother and aren't buzzed of their faces.

flahavaj

Don't care

Rosco1982 wrote: »

What are you trying to say ?

That it is possible for fans to mingle without trouble.

Soccer fans just haven't grasped the concept.

OPENROAD

Don't care

flahavaj wrote: »

That it is possible for fans to mingle without trouble.

Soccer fans just haven't grasped the concept.

Have to say I like segregation though.

Paparazzo

No

Dempsey wrote: »

The likes of Man United wouldnt do a complete conversion because of the rules of European Competition. The top clubs would probably just convert one of the stands for the hardcore supporters that go everywhere to support their team.

Yeah, that's perfect. Make a percentage of a stadium terrace, like lower tier behind each goal. If people want to sit or stand they can do whatever they like.

OPENROAD wrote: »

Have to say I like segregation though.

Me too. I hate being mixed in with opposition fans at GAA games, especially when my team is losing. Always get stuck with some woman behind me with a high pitched voice that just shouts 2 things: "COME ON [insert name of county]" and "COME ON [insert first name of bleached blond player that's easy to pick out]". :mad:

CiaranC

No

OPENROAD wrote: »

Have to say I like segregation though.

The thoughts of having to sit/stand among Bohs fans at the derby is horrifying

dfx-

Don't care

therecklessone wrote: »

You realise you've just linked to a fire that took place in an all-seated stand, don't you?

It being all seated probably helped clear as many people as it did in just four minutes that it took for the stand to burn. Would terraced pens of the time evacuate that quick?

Although nobody died because they were sitting or standing...more that the locked turnstiles was the killer...

ShooterSF

At 5'6 Im against it

LuckyLloyd

Don't care

therecklessone wrote: »

I know we live in a cynical age, but isn't it just the teeniest bit possible that the Lib Dems have listened to football supporters (the FSF and other fans organisations have campaigned for the reintroduction of terracing for ages) and actually responded to their concerns?

On a general note, isn't it also the case that while Taylor concluded that all-seater stadiums are safer, that terracing is in itself not intrinsically unsafe? If it was, why is there no all-seater requirement below the Championship?

I can think of a reason rooted in practicality and expediency and not driven by safety concerns, can't you?

stovelid

No

It would be brilliant if done safely. Terraces don't cause disasters, rather mismanagement of people does.

For heavily-marketed leagues like the EPL, more colour and noise would be an even bigger sell.

flahavaj

Don't care

Paparazzo wrote: »

Me too. I hate being mixed in with opposition fans at GAA games, especially when my team is losing. Always get stuck with some woman behind me with a high pitched voice that just shouts 2 things: "COME ON [insert name of county]" and "COME ON [insert first name of bleached blond player that's easy to pick out]". :mad:

You get as many if these anongst your own support as opposition though unfortunately. I thought they always sat behind me though, nice to know I'm not the only one.:pac:

Spiritoftheseventies

Don't care

flahavaj wrote: »

You get as many if these anongst your own support as opposition though unfortunately. I thought they always sat behind me though, nice to know I'm not the only one.:pac:

Was at game in Croker a few seasons back. Was in the upper stand and some of the fans were more intent in soaking up the atmosphere than watching the game itself.
Terracing works far better in the GAA i think although the hill has it fair shair of messers.
But best place to watch the Dublin games imo.

flahavaj

Don't care

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Was at game in Croker a few seasons back. Was in the upper stand and some of the fans were more intent in soaking up the atmosphere than watching the game itself.
Terracing works far better in the GAA i think although the hill has it fair shair of messers.
But best place to watch the Dublin games imo.

Theres nothing wrong with this either really, in fairness. If people pay for their ticket they can do as they please as long as they don't cause too much annoyance to others.

I prefer being seated tbh, but thats just me. I've been on the terraces in a packed Semple a few times and I don't enjoy the jostling for a good view thats goes on. Plus you don't get a great view of the far end of the pitch from behnd the goal. I'd much prefer to be sat closer to half way with a decent view of proceedings. Thats more a personal preferene than a safety or otherwise concern. And apart from the odd ignortant tosser, GAA fans generally can mingle fine evern on the terraces.

Spiritoftheseventies

Don't care

flahavaj wrote: »

Theres nothing wrong with this either really, in fairness. If people pay for their ticket they can do as they please as long as they don't cause too much annoyance to others.

I prefer being seated tbh, but thats just me. I've been on the terraces in a packed Semple a few times and I don't enjoy the jostling for a good view thats goes on. Plus you don't get a great view of the far end of the pitch from behnd the goal. I'd much prefer to be sat closer to half way with a decent view of proceedings. Thats more a personal preferene than a safety or otherwise concern. And apart from the odd ignortant tosser, GAA fans generally can mingle fine evern on the terraces.

No problem with intermingling at all on terraces. Even managed to go to Kildare Donegal game in Newbirdge with Dubs shirt on. Did it for a dare. The Kildare fans were good about it to be honest

flahavaj

Don't care

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

No problem with intermingling at all on terraces. Even managed to go to Kildare Donegal game in Newbirdge with Dubs shirt on. Did it for a dare. The Kildare fans were good about it to be honest

I'd always wear the Waterford jersey to most matches. I remember getting ran out of Barry's Hotel by a load of Cork fans when they were playing KK a few years ago. Some craic. "You're a week too late baaaiiii.":pac:

Back on topic, I presume the new Aviva is All Seater? (Though you won't necessarily be able to see much from some of the seats from what I've read).:pac:

Spiritoftheseventies

Don't care

flahavaj wrote: »

I'd always wear the Waterford jersey to most matches. I remember getting ran out of Barry's Hotel by a load of Cork fans when they were playing KK a few years ago. Some craic. "You're a week too late baaaiiii.":pac:

Back on topic, I presume the new Aviva is All Seater? (Though you won't necessarily be able to see much from some of the seats from what I've read).:pac:

Yes there was something about that awhile back. From what I can see the roof dips down a bit so that is blocking your view in upper stands.
But nothing new if you are used to watching a game with a big giant poll blocking your way.

Boggles

Don't care

therecklessone wrote: »

You realise you've just linked to a fire that took place in an all-seated stand, don't you?

It wasn't all seated it was 50-50.

My point was people giving out about over zealous health and safety. The Bradford Fire was an example of what can go horribly wrong when a large congregation of people gather, of course like all disasters it's an extreme case.

Like the aviation industry which learn from every disaster and implement safety measures for the future. The same can be said for Stadia. The Procedures and rules are there for good reasons, not because the stewards like to act the dick.

SDTimeout

I like the idea of it, but it's just a good idea in principal.

We know what football fans are, no denying it but rugby and gaa fans put us to shame and don't have to be segregated. It's why i love going to rugby matches in croker because you could have the crack in the hill with other teams fans.

Now if you done terracing with arsenal and spurs..there would 100% have to be seg. Then there would be pushing etc when a goal goes in, imagine if it happened in spain you see them running to the fences when a goal happens.
It could be done at a small capacity level i do think though in most PL grounds. I think the lower tier of the emirates looks fantastic when you see so many people getting up at once because a player is clean through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbiwkkU3rCQ i think all the fans standing there when he scores would be alot better. Even if its just behind the goal there

Spiritoftheseventies

Don't care

Boggles wrote: »

It wasn't all seated it was 50-50.

My point was people giving out about over zealous health and safety. The Bradford Fire was an example of what can go horribly wrong when a large congregation of people gather, of course like all disasters it's an extreme case.

Like the aviation industry which learn from every disaster and implement safety measures for the future. The same can be said for Stadia. The Procedures and rules are there for good reasons, not because the stewards like to act the dick.

This the sequence of events that happened here. Its a wike entry but timeline seems coherent enough. Not sure if had to do supporters themselves apart from supporter who lit the initial cigarette.

After 40 minutes of the first half, the score remained 0–0,[13] in what was described as a drab affair with neither team threatening to score.[14] At 3:40 pm, five minutes before half-time, the first sign of a fire—a glowing light[10]—was noticed three rows from the back of block G.[15] It is believed the fire started when a spectator dropped a match, lit cigarette or tobacco, which fell through holes in the stand to rubbish which had accumulated below. One witness saw paper or debris on fire, about nine inches below the floor boards.[10]

Spectators initially felt their feet becoming warmer; one of them ran to the back of the stand for a fire extinguisher but found none. A police officer shouted to a colleague for an extinguisher. However, his call was misheard and instead the fire brigade were radioed.[10] The call was timed at 3:43 pm.[11] However, the fire escalated and flames became visible, and so police started to evacuate the stand. The blaze began to spread; the roof and wooden stands were on fire. One eyewitness, Geoffrey Mitchell, told the BBC: "It spread like a flash. I've never seen anything like it. The smoke was choking. You could hardly breathe."[15] One of the linesmen informed match referee Don Shaw, who stopped the game with three minutes remaining before half-time.[13]

The wooden roof, which was covered with tarpaulin and sealed with asphalt and bitumen, caught fire.[10] The material combined with a strong wind to spread the fire along the stand creating the impression of a fireball, setting fire to the entire stand.[10][16] Burning timbers and molten materials fell from the roof onto the crowd and seating below, and black smoke enveloped a passageway behind the stand, where many spectators were trying to escape.[10] It took less than four minutes for the entire stand to be engulfed in flames.[11]

There were no extinguishers in the stand's passageway for fear of vandalism, and one spectator ran to the club house to find one, but was overcome by smoke and others trying to escape. Supporters either ran upwards to the back of the stand or downwards to the pitch to escape. Most of the exits at the back were either locked or shut, and there were no stewards present to open them, but seven were either forced or found open.[8][10] Three men smashed down one door and at least one exit was opened by people outside.[10][15] Geoffrey Mitchell said: "There was panic as fans stampeded to an exit which was padlocked. Two or three burly men put their weight against it and smashed the gate open. Otherwise I would not have been able to get out."[15] At the front of the stand, men threw children over the wall to help them escape. Most of those who escaped onto the pitch were saved.[10]

People who had escaped the fire instead tried to assist their fellow supporters. Police officers also assisted in the rescue attempts. One man clambered over burning seats to help a fan,[17] as did player John Hawley,[14] and one officer led fans to an exit only to find it shut and had to turn around.[10] Bradford City's coach Terry Yorath, whose family was in the stand,[18] ran on to the pitch to help evacuate people. Another player went into the office space to ensure there was nobody there.[18] One fan put his jumper over a fellow supporter's head to extinguish flames.[11] Those who escaped were taken out of the ground and to neighbouring homes and a pub, where a television screened Grandstand, which had live pictures from the ground.[17][18] Those who escaped queued for a telephone to ring their families.[16]

A total of 56 people died in the fire.[2] Of those, 54 were Bradford supporters and two from Lincoln.[14] They included three who tried to escape through the toilets, 27 who were found by exit K and turnstiles six to nine at the rear centre of the stand and two elderly people who died in their seats. Some had been crushed as they tried to crawl under turnstiles to escape. One retired mill worker made his way to the pitch, but was walking about on fire from head to foot. People smothered him to extinguish the flames, but he later died in hospital.[10] Half of those who died were either aged under 20 or over 70,[10][19] the eldest of which was the club's oldest supporter, former chairman, Sam Firth, aged 86.[10][15] More than 265 supporters were injured; the fire was described as the worst fire disaster in the history of British football, and the worst disaster since 65 spectators died at the Ibrox disaster in 1971.[13] One policeman said: "It must have been survival of the fittest—men first."[10]

The fire brigade arrived at the ground four minutes after they were called. However, the fire had consumed the stand by that point and they were faced by huge flames and dense smoke. Neither were they able to start fighting the fire immediately so that supporters could be first rescued from the ground.[11] The fire destroyed the main stand and left only burned seats, lamps and fences. Some of those who died were still sitting upright in their seats covered by tarpaulin. Police worked until 4 am the following morning, under lighting, to remove all the bodies.[11]

The match was being recorded by Yorkshire Television for transmission on their Sunday afternoon regional football show The Big Match. Coverage of the fire was transmitted minutes after the event on the live ITV Saturday afternoon sports programme World of Sport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford_City_stadium_fire

keane2097

No

Boggles wrote: »

Like the aviation industry which learn from every disaster and implement safety measures for the future. The same can be said for Stadia. The Procedures and rules are there for good reasons, not because the stewards like to act the dick.

The report done into the the incident that most people will reference against this idea stated explicitly that terraces are safe.

Clearly the lesson learned from Hillsborough and the measures taken in the aftermath did not stem from one another, but were a high-visibilty measure taken to appease the angry masses.

keane2097

No

LOL at people who think standing in seated areas is safer than terraces by the way

Spiritoftheseventies

Don't care

keane2097 wrote: »

The report done into the the incident that most people will reference against this idea stated explicitly that terraces are safe.

Clearly the lesson learned from Hillsborough and the measures taken in the aftermath did not stem from one another, but were a high-visibilty measure taken to appease the angry masses.

Its clear that grounds are safer to visit but again as Lucky Lloyd said would think there would be some strong opposition from Liverpool fans given that the Justice for 96 campaign is still ongoing. Would assume some will never stand in a terrace again and would have problems going to game with terracing.
If terracing is re-introduced there needs to a consultative process

wobblyknees

Boggles wrote: »

Haha.

A number chalked on the ground like?

If a goal went in you could end up 40 yards from your assigned space. How would you find it again?

When a goal has gone in, I have ended up three rows down in a seated area.

Do some research on safe standing areas in Germany.

wobblyknees

keane2097 wrote: »

LOL at people who think standing in seated areas is safer than terraces by the way

Well said.

Boggles

Don't care

keane2097 wrote: »

The report done into the the incident that most people will reference against this idea stated explicitly that terraces are safe.

Clearly the lesson learned from Hillsborough and the measures taken in the aftermath did not stem from one another, but were a high-visibilty measure taken to appease the angry masses.

Well I'll put it to you this way.

Since the safety recommendations of the Taylor report and subsequent safety measures have been introduced, stadia in Britain have an impeccable safety record.

Again why take the chance, even if it is a tiny one?

keane2097

No

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Its clear that grounds are safer to visit but again as Lucky Lloyd said would think there would be some strong opposition from Liverpool fans given that the Justice for 96 campaign is still ongoing. Would assume some will never stand in a terrace again and would have problems going to game with terracing.
If terracing is re-introduced there needs to a consultative process

If the reports and the common experience of millions of fans every year who go to non-EPL and Championship games have shown that terraces are safe then what are you supposed to do?

People are always going to have irrational bugbears and fears about a whole host of issues - you can't ban everything because it offends somebody's sensibilities.

Boggles

Don't care

wobblyknees wrote: »

Do some research on safe standing areas in Germany.

Like I said before 24 hour bars work in Germany, that doesn't mean they will work elsewhere.

Spiritoftheseventies

Don't care

keane2097 wrote: »

If the reports and the common experience of millions of fans every year who go to non-EPL and Championship games have shown that terraces are safe then what are you supposed to do?

People are always going to have irrational bugbears and fears about a whole host of issues - you can't ban everything because it offends somebody's sensibilities.

I agree there but if you were a fan who was at hillsborough game and then it was announced terracing would be re-introduced I would assume you would be very uneasy about it.
I think the very mention of it would would make those who attended very uneasy.

keane2097

No

Boggles wrote: »

Well I'll put it to you this way.

Since the safety recommendations of the Taylor report and subsequent safety measures have been introduced, stadia in Britain have an impeccable safety record.

Again why take the chance, even if it is a tiny one?

Because it's what people want.

Fcuk sake like - you can die doing ANYTHING.

Maybe they should ban driving cars, smoking, elective surgeries, volunterring in third world countries and fcuking skiing while they're at it.

Terraces = safe;
incompetent groundstaff and police != safe;

The idea that this equation can lead anyone to the conclusion that "ban terraces" is the correct solution is just so fcukin ridiculous.

keane2097

No

Boggles wrote: »

Like I said before 24 hour bars work in Germany, that doesn't mean they will work elsewhere.

Ever been to Twickenham Boggles?

This is either an extremely disingenuous argument, or just a fcukin stupid one.

flahavaj

Don't care

Boggles wrote: »

Like I said before 24 hour bars work in Germany, that doesn't mean they will work elsewhere.

Flawed, irrelevant analogy to be fair.

Boggles

Don't care

I'd be interested to know how many people here have actually been to a terraced football match in England or Scotland?

keane2097

No

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

I agree there but if you were a fan who was at hillsborough game and then it was announced terracing would be re-introduced I would assume you would be very uneasy about it.
I think the very mention of it would would make those who attended very uneasy.

I'm sure if someone I loved was killed in a bus crash I'd be very uneasy about getting on a bus.

Unfortunately I'll have to live with it because banning buses is clearly not the appropriate solution.

I feel for the Hillsborough victims and their families of course, but the terraces didn't kill the victims as has been stated in the Taylor report.

wobblyknees

Boggles wrote: »

Well I'll put it to you this way.

Since the safety recommendations of the Taylor report and subsequent safety measures have been introduced, stadia in Britain have an impeccable safety record.

Again why take the chance, even if it is a tiny one?

Hamburg, host to the Europa League Final, have safe standing areas. Morecambe are incorporating safe standing areas into their new stadium. Everton have suggested they will look at safe standing in their new stadium, even going so far as suggesting they would do it on a trial basis. The FSF have said on numerous occasions that there is huge support to at least discuss safe standing areas.

Here is a picture of a safe standing area (minus the chalk on the ground):

chopperbyrne

Boggles wrote: »

Well I'll put it to you this way.

Since the safety recommendations of the Taylor report and subsequent safety measures have been introduced, stadia in Britain have an impeccable safety record.

Again why take the chance, even if it is a tiny one?

It wasn't the all seating that made it safe though, it was the the better crowd management methods, policing and stewarding.

keane2097

No

Boggles wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how many people here have actually been to a terraced football match in England or Scotland?

What's your point?

Let me pre-empt it for you:

terraces = safe;
hooligans = dangerous;
solution = ban the terraces

wobblyknees

chopperbyrne wrote: »

It wasn't the all seating that made it safe though, it was the the better crowd management methods, policing and stewarding.

And newer stadiums....

Boggles

Don't care

keane2097 wrote: »

What's your point?

It was a question. A pretty relevant one.

keane2097 wrote: »

Let me pre-empt it for you:

terraces = safe;
hooligans = dangerous;
solution = ban the terraces

See this is your problem. There is no such thing as safe when thousands of people congregate in any relatively small area. There is only degrees of safe.

Seating and the benefits of seating have been proved to be safer in Britain.

There is no arguing that.

Roar

No

i think when people think "football terracing" they think




however if terracing were to return, it would be like wobblyknees posted

wobblyknees wrote: »

nobody behind you to crush you, everyone has their own individual space, there's no overcrowding in a crumbling terrace etc..

i would love to see terracing return. ever since the shed was knocked at Turner's Cross the heart has been ripped out of the place. if terracing can return safely, then i'd be all for it.

keane2097

No

Boggles wrote: »

See this is your problem. There is no such thing as safe when thousands of people congregate in any relatively small area. There is only degrees of safe.

Seating and the benefits of seating have been proved to be safer in Britain.

There is no arguing that.

This is an extremely flawed argument.

The Taylor report explicitly states that terracing was not to blame for the Hillsborough disaster. The blame was with incompetent groundstaff and unsafe stadium procedures.

Incompetent groundstaff and unsafe stadium procedures have been by and large eliminated from grounds, hence improved safety record.

This is not the same as saying seats are safer than terraces. If you can't see this I would encourage you to read a book about logic, because you just don't get it.

In the meantime, would you like to buy this rock? It will keep you safe from tigers...

Boggles

Don't care

keane2097 wrote: »

This is an extremely flawed argument.

The Taylor report explicitly states that terracing was not to blame for the Hillsborough disaster. The blame was with incompetent groundstaff and unsafe stadium procedures.

Incompetent groundstaff and unsafe stadium procedures have been by and large eliminated from grounds, hence improved safety record.

This is not the same as saying seats are safer than terraces. If you can't see this I would encourage you to read a book about logic, because you just don't get it.

In the meantime, would you like to buy this rock? It will keep you safe from tigers...

The Taylor report wasn't just about the Hillsborough disaster.

It was about making stadia safer and one of his main recommendations was all seater stadia.

It was Taylor that basically brought in all seating don't be using his report to justify your point that terracing is safe.

Also try and debate the subject without insulting me please. I have been around here too long, It's not new, it's not funny and it's not clever.

keane2097

No

Boggles wrote: »

The Taylor report wasn't just about the Hillsborough disaster.

It was about making stadia safer and one of his main recommendations was all seater stadia.

It was Taylor that basically brought in all seating don't be using his report to justify your point that terracing is safe.

Taylor Report wrote:

Terracing is not intrinsicly unsafe

You really will say just about anything to try to squirm out of an argument won't you?

Boggles

Don't care

keane2097 wrote: »

You really will say just about anything to try to squirm out of an argument won't you?

One question then.

Why was his main recommendation to introduce all seater stadiums, therefore eliminating terraces?

keane2097

No

Boggles wrote: »

One question then.

Why was his main recommendation to introduce all seater stadiums, therefore eliminating terraces?

Expedience.

To be specific:

In the aftermath of the Hillsborough incident vast swathes of people were furious, baying for blood and demanding that action be taken.

Saying that "We're going to send the groundstaff on courses to train them in correct safety procedures" wasn't a grand enough gesture.

So they decided to go for the type of overkill that the masses would respond to: "ban terraces".

The terraces are demonstrably not the problem, as is stated in the report, but a big move like banning them is exactly the type of move that will appease the unwashed masses - as you so perfectly demonstrate.

Boggles

Don't care

keane2097 wrote: »

Expedience.

To be specific:

In the aftermath of the Hillsborough incident vast swathes of people were furious, baying for blood and demanding that action be taken.

Saying that "We're going to send the groundstaff on courses to train them in correct safety procedures" wasn't a grand enough gesture.

So they decided to go for the type of overkill that the masses would respond to: "ban terraces".

Nothing like a good old conspiracy theory to back up an arguement. :rolleyes:

FFS. Seating provides a better method of crowd control, which makes stadia safer. It's a fact. There is no Tin Hat government agenda. Fooking tiresome.

keane2097 wrote: »

The terraces are demonstrably not the problem, as is stated in the report, but a big move like banning them is exactly the type of move that will appease the unwashed masses - as you so perfectly demonstrate.

Thats the last childish insult I'll ignore.

Why exactly do you want terraces brought back?

Have you experience of terraces at football matches in Britain?

What exactly will be the benefit of terraces?

Kingdom

No

I voted "Yes" because I hate sitting at matches, and standing in the all-seater stadiums is horrid when a goal is banged in.

I'm sure this poll is geared towards the English game, but if we're talking about Irish stadia, then for Lansdowne and Dalymount it's terraces all the way for me. Baby!

keane2097

No

Boggles wrote: »

Nothing like a good old conspiracy theory to back up an arguement. :rolleyes:

What's the conspiracy theory? You had no problem suggesting that the move to bring back terraces was a political stunt, I'm just suggesting the move to get rid of them was a political stunt.

So go ahead and roll your eyes, but your rolling them at yourself kid

Boggles wrote: »

FFS. Seating provides a better method of crowd control, which makes stadia safer. It's a fact.

It isn't. It just isn't. This is completely made up like. Terraces are perfectly safe in and of themselves. Stands are perfectly safe in and of themselves.

The procedures with which they are controlled are what dictate the relative safety of the two. This is so obvious like.

In the event of a fire in an all-seated stadium what matters isn't whether you have a seat or not, it's how effectively you are gotten to an exit by stewards, staff etc.

How is your seat going to protect you from smoke inhalation and flames?

Boggles wrote: »

Thats the last childish insult I'll ignore.

You've taken this up wrong. I didn't use the term "unwashed masses" as a direct pejorative. I used it to mean "people who think about an issue at a high-level or in a reactionary way".

Clearly, this is what you're doing here, as you're flat-out ignoring direct statements from experts saying unequivocally that terraces are safe and bad procedures are a problem.

Boggles wrote: »

Why exactly do you want terraces brought back?

Have you experience of terraces at football matches in Britain?

What exactly will be the benefit of terraces?

You're just trying to get me to say I've never been to a terraced match in Britain as though that will win you the argument or something. I've been to terraced matches in Ireland, England and Wales in four different sports.

I enjoy the atmosphere more when I'm in a terrace. That's the benefit.

Again, what you're hoping to tell me is that the atmosphere in English soccer terraces will be less enjoyable because I'll be intimidated by rough elements.

The solution to this is not related to whether or not a terrace exists.

Spiritoftheseventies

Don't care

keane2097 wrote: »

What's the conspiracy theory? You had no problem suggesting that the move to bring back terraces was a political stunt, I'm just suggesting the move to get rid of them was a political stunt.

So go ahead and roll your eyes, but your rolling them at yourself kid



It isn't. It just isn't. This is completely made up like. Terraces are perfectly safe in and of themselves. Stands are perfectly safe in and of themselves.

The procedures with which they are controlled are what dictate the relative safety of the two. This is so obvious like.

In the event of a fire in an all-seated stadium what matters isn't whether you have a seat or not, it's how effectively you are gotten to an exit by stewards, staff etc.

How is your seat going to protect you from smoke inhalation and flames?



You've taken this up wrong. I didn't use the term "unwashed masses" as a direct pejuorative. I used it to mean "people who think about an issue at a high-level or in a reactionary way".

Clearly, this is what you're doing here, as you're flat-out ignoring direct statements from experts saying unequivocally that terraces are safe and bad procedures are a problem.



You're just trying to get me to say I've never been to a terraced match in Britain as though that will win you the argument or something. I've been to terraced matches in Ireland, England and Wales in four different sports.

I enjoy the atmosphere more when I'm in a terrace. That's the benefit.

Again, what you're hoping to tell me is that the atmosphere in English soccer terraces will be less enjoyable because I'll be intimidated by rough elements.

The solution to this is not related to whether or not a terrace exists.

Seems to be a big push for this from the Supporters union which is the important. Once the stewarding and safety is sorted, there shouldn't be a problem

keane2097

No

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Seems to be a big push for this from the Supporters union which is the important. Once the stewarding and safety is sorted, there shouldn't be a problem

To be honest I think it's unlikely that anything will come of this, but the bit I've highlighted there is the key truth in this debate.

flahavaj

Don't care

Boggles getting pulverised here tbh.