300 Trucks expected in Dublin city center protest supporting Quinn Insurance.

Run_to_da_hills

Expect some disruption in the city center tomarrow with over 300 trucks converging around the city center in support of the Quinn group.

Personally I wouldn't cycle with that many trucks about. :eek:

I thought it was illegal for larger trucks to enter the city center without a permit since the opening of the port tunnel.

The truckers say it is an all-Ireland protest at the Financial Regulator's decision to place Quinn Insurance into administration.

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/hundreds-of-lorries-to-disrupt-dublin-traffic-tomorrow-455426.html

paulm17781

What do truckers have to do with Quinn? They get insurance from them?

As I ask whenever this pointless nonsense happens. How does blocking the city streets help? Will this give Quinn the €200m needed to pay of their debt? Perhaps they should be driving to Sean Quinn's house to protest his stupid financial decisions?

kippy

paulm17781 wrote: »

What do truckers have to do with Quinn? They get insurance from them?

As I ask whenever this pointless nonsense happens. How does blocking the city streets help? Will this give Quinn the €200m needed to pay of their debt? Perhaps they should be driving to Sean Quinn's house to protest his stupid financial decisions?

Quinn Cement??
They may have their own trucks for delivery or it could be any number of Haulage companies that rely on Quinn companies for business.

JHMEG

Quinn's business model is sound... just they don't have the reserves stipulated by the Irish Financial Regulator.

While I get the point the FR is trying to make, they should be indemnified by the govt as they are as Brian Lenihan would say, systemically important to the Irish economy (unlike Anglo) and the FR is slowly killing the company.

schemingbohemia

JHMEG wrote: »

Quinn's business model is sound... just they don't have the reserves stipulated by the Irish Financial Regulator.

While I get the point the FR is trying to make, they should be indemnified by the govt as they are as Brian Lenihan would say, systemically important to the Irish economy (unlike Anglo) and the FR is slowly killing the company.

Great advice :rolleyes:- sure let's all keep going like we were before the crash with companies ignoring the financial regulator - Sean Quinn is a moron who has been found to be in breach of financial regulations on numerous occasions, he got away with it in the past and i'm delighted that we now have a Financial Regulator who will actually regulate.

Steviemak

Yes, that's what we need now - less regulation:rolleyes: Sure what's the worst that could happen?

I really don't understand what these truckers want

jesus_thats_gre

A billionaire that is a moron? Interesting.

indiewindy

JHMEG wrote: »

Quinn's business model is sound... just they don't have the reserves stipulated by the Irish Financial Regulator.

While I get the point the FR is trying to make, they should be indemnified by the govt as they are as Brian Lenihan would say, systemically important to the Irish economy (unlike Anglo) and the FR is slowly killing the company.

If Quinns business model was sound, there would not be administrators running Quinn Insurance. Tomorrows protest looks like another attempt to bully the Country into bailing out this failing company, and as usual the public suffers

indiewindy

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

A billionaire that is a moron? Interesting.

Maybe he was a billionaire,not anymore

BluntGuy

The public should not be bullied into bailing out yet another commerical failure. It is quite frankly ridiculous.

rubberdiddies

presumably these trucks will be driving illegaly into the city centre and presumably they will be allowed to without any repurcussions? as per the taxi protests

JHMEG

Quinn's business was a roaring success until the Regulator stepped in and closed the UK side of the business.

The problem is the company doesn't have the cash reserves to underwrite all the policies in the event that everyone claims at the same time (being struck by lightning is more likely). The reasons are not really relevant.

The Regulator was right to step in. The rules made him do it. But as it happens the rules are a bit tighter here than in the EU, and if the EU rules had been applied the Regulator would be looking elsewhere.

It's just a pity that a company that has done a great service to the country as a whole is being damaged, and the likes of Anglo which has only served the needs of a select few was bailed out.

Stark

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

A billionaire that is a moron? Interesting.

Even morons get lucky. Sean Quinn and his ilk are essentially high stake gamblers. The failures just don't tend to be visible (until something like Anglo goes under).

indiewindy

All the other insurance companies had no problem with the solvency requirement, Quinns U.K insurance business was loss making, so hardly a roaring success, Quinn and his share dealings in Anglo have also cost the taxpayer dear.

hardCopy

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

A billionaire that is a moron? Interesting.

The country was full of rich gobshytes up until quite recently.

dowlingm

If only Elderfield had been in office before the crash - but there's no way someone that strict would have been hired in the don't worry be happy era. My fear is that eventually the gombeens and the Humphreys will finally p!ss him off with their attempts to keep leaky boats afloat despite law and reason and he'll resign.

oops - need a transport segue - get the cops on the street and start handing out fines!

hardCopy wrote: »

The country was full of rich gobshytes up until quite recently.

But they weren't rich - they were leveraged. All fur coat and no knickers.

Joey the lips

If you ask me the truck drivers are plonkers. They should park outside sean quinns home and protest at the fact his company carried on in such a bad way

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

While I get the point the FR is trying to make, they should be indemnified by the govt as they are as Brian Lenihan would say, systemically important to the Irish economy (unlike Anglo) and the FR is slowly killing the company.

why, they are in no way systemic to the irish economy

indiewindy wrote: »

If Quinns business model was sound, there would not be administrators running Quinn Insurance. Tomorrows protest looks like another attempt to bully the Country into bailing out this failing company, and as usual the public suffers

+1

JHMEG wrote: »

Quinn's business was a roaring success until the Regulator stepped in and closed the UK side of the business.

but if they followed the rules as they were supposed to they would not have been able to offer such low prices and would not have had the price advantage over other insurers. They gained an advantage by breaking the rules, nothing else

JHMEG wrote: »

It's just a pity that a company that has done a great service to the country as a whole is being damaged.

you make me laugh sometimes...

what "great service" would that be exactly?

KevR

Would rather see truck drivers protesting about the ridiculously high fuel duty...

gjim

JHMEG wrote: »

Quinn's business was a roaring success until the Regulator stepped in and closed the UK side of the business.

Are you for real? Quinn was fined a record 3.5 million (peanuts in the scheme of things but a record in Ireland) a few years back because he used his insurance company's reserves to lend money to his other companies. In other words, he treated the insurance company reserves as a piggy bank for his own business ventures instead of investing in high quality bonds and the like which is what other insurance companies do.

He also used his insurance company to provide loan guarantees for his other business punts. He never declared these guarantees as potential liabilities for the insurance company. We all know how such guarantees can end up (remember how the bank guarantee was hailed as a master stroke because it would cost the government nothing? - as it turns out it looks like it will cost AT LEAST 10,000 euro for every man woman and child in the country).

It all comes down to how you'd feel if you'd been paying insurance permiums to Quinn for years and then your house burns down, you have a car accident or your spouse dies and you're left without an income looking after kids and then you find out the guy has been gambling with the insurance reserves and there was no money in the pot to pay-out your claim.

The insurance business is very highly regulated for a reason - an insurance company going bust WILL DEFINITELY destroy lots of innocents' lives; it sounds cruel but with a bank going bust the worst that can happen is you lose your savings. Think of a widow left destitute because a life insurance policy cannot pay.

It has absolutely f-all to do with the regulator's actions in the last couple of weeks. The guy abused his position for years threatening massive collateral damage to innocent bystanders. This sort of bullcrap defense of him is sickening. He should be never left near a finance company again.

I admired the guy in the past but when the details of that that fine came out a couple of years back, that finished it for me. Despite having a whack of money in a Quinn pension policy and buying car insurance from him, I decided there and then never to hand over a penny to one of his companies again.

hardCopy

dowlingm wrote: »

But they weren't rich - they were leveraged. All fur coat and no knickers.

Too true.

I bear no grudge against Quinn by the way, I've insured my car with them for years and they do provide lots of employment. But if there's a risk of them leaving policy holders high and dry then they should be regulated until they are safe. Their customers took out policies in good faith in a regulated market and they shouldn't be allowed to rip us off (customers or taxpayers)

Calhoun

Did anyone else have the pleasure of listening to one of the moronic organisers of this little protest on newstalk. He came across like a deluded idiot.

Every point that was made to him about the regulator doing his job or about Quinn being the one that caused this problem was deflected, if i remember correctly the response was something like this;

"I'm not an accountant so i can't really talk to the situation Quinn is in but sure isn't he a grand lad and should be given time to recover his business as he is the best to do it"

It makes you mad :mad: i honestly hope he goes out of business i am actually wondering how he can run a business he sounded like such a cabbage.

Zoney

What a pointless protest. It is a bit depressing that this gets such on-the-ground action whereas many far more serious issues and acts by the government have not.

howiya

JHMEG wrote: »

It's just a pity that a company that has done a great service to the country as a whole is being damaged, and the likes of Anglo which has only served the needs of a select few was bailed out.

Surely Sean Quinn as a major shareholder in Anglo prior to nationalisation would come under the heading "the likes of Anglo"

JHMEG

I see people are unfortunately unable to seperate Quinn Insurance, the company, from Anglo etc.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what "great service" would that be exactly?

Providing effective competition, proof being that they have 20% of the motor insurance market.

gjim wrote:

Are you for real?

I'd call €20 million profit a MONTH pretty successful.

If Quinn goes to the wall, everyone's motor insurance will go up thanks to the lack of competition.

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

Providing effective competition, proof being that they have 20% of the motor insurance market.

only by breaking the rules and not covering themselves. if they followed the solvency ration rules they would not have been able to offer such low prices and would not have been as competitive.

Never mind all the dodgy loan dealings...

paulm17781

JHMEG wrote: »

The problem is the company doesn't have the cash reserves to underwrite all the policies in the event that everyone claims at the same time (being struck by lightning is more likely). The reasons are not really relevant.

So you're saying the business model isn't sound? Or can I just set up an insurance company despite not being able to underwrite the policies? :rolleyes:

paulm17781

JHMEG wrote: »

I'd call €20 million profit a MONTH pretty successful.

It's not profit, if it was, they wouldn't be €200m in debt.

delta_bravo

Are all these vehicles not in violation of the HGV ban if they enter the city?

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

It's not profit, if it was, they wouldn't be €200m in debt.

They're not €200m in debt!

Look lads, ye can all jump on me. The fact remains that Quinn Insurance is/was beneficial to the country as a whole by providing decent competition, not to mention thousands of jobs.

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

They're not €200m in debt!

your right, they're not. Its something like €2.8bn isin't it? (thats the group as a whole now) But the insurance co guarantees a lot of that.

Barname

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

A billionaire that is a moron? Interesting.

Lets examine what Sean Quinn is

Billionaire - No

Moron - Yes

So, there you have it, he is NOT a billionaire but he IS a moron

lube5150

Only trucks with 5 or more axels are banned from dublin...im sure the will use 4 axel tippers,rigid's to make their piont...plus they have it hard enough at the moment to make money...take your average tractor unit out there,hauling produce around the country,,,to fill that lorry with diesel will cost €1500,,,and will return about 7-8mpg...tax will cost anything up to €3500,,and insurance€7000-€9000...and they can only drive 8 hours a day....and their profit's have hit rock bottom...i wish them well...will it make a
differance.....not a bit........

paulm17781

lube5150 wrote: »

Only trucks with 5 or more axels are banned from dublin...im sure the will use 4 axel tippers,rigid's to make their piont...

What exactly is their point?

Zoney

paulm17781 wrote: »

What exactly is their point?

It seems to be another example of the popular national psychology of blaming those who point out or address a problem (and almost acting as if they have thus magically created it), rather than blaming those who created the problem in the first place!

Cookie_Monster

paulm17781 wrote: »

What exactly is their point?

I don't really get this either.

They're blocking up Dublin in protest that the UK business isin't allowed continue in all its markets and because of this the company is in danger because the Irish arm isin't profitable enough to cover the debts.

Surely they should be protesting outside Quinn office to sort out the Irish arm so it can survive rather than worrying about UK jobs & business

JHMEG

The point (and I really don't know how people aren't getting this) is that the truckers do not want their insurance premiums to increase with the demise of Quinn.

I'm insured with Quinn - they were 25% cheaper than the next cheapest, and I certainly don't want my premium to increase either.

Quinn leaving the insurance market would be akin to Ryanair leaving the air transport market.

Stark

I really don't want my bank charges increasing if Anglo faces its demise.

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

The point (and I really don't know how people aren't getting this) is that the truckers do not want their insurance premiums to increase with the demise of Quinn.

I don't want my insurance to increase by 35% on renewal, That why I'm not with Quinn anymore. They are nowhere near the cheapest. In fact for the last two years the were only the 5-6th cheapest when I was looking around.

Anyway how is a protest like this going to prevent insurance going up?

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

Quinn leaving the insurance market would be akin to Ryanair leaving the air transport market.

No, it'd be like BA leaving the market. Big company but someone else will buy it and not too many customers would actually notice or care as there are plenty of cheaper alternatives out there.

JHMEG

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I don't want my insurance to increase by 35% on renewal, That why I'm not with Quinn anymore. They are nowhere near the cheapest. In fact for the last two years the were only the 5-6th cheapest when I was looking around.

By your own admission Quinn have saved you money in the past, right?

Jip

These lads really need Quinn to stay in business to keep their jobs. Judging by the ridiculous logic surrounding their protest they haven't a hope of getting another job bar driving trucks.

JHMEG wrote: »

The point (and I really don't know how people aren't getting this) is that the truckers do not want their insurance premiums to increase with the demise of Quinn.

I'm insured with Quinn - they were 25% cheaper than the next cheapest, and I certainly don't want my premium to increase either.

Quinn leaving the insurance market would be akin to Ryanair leaving the air transport market.

And what has that got to do with the regulator ? It's Quinn, and Quinn only, that should be marched upon. Disrupting Dublin and its citizens in some misguided protest is pretty stupid.

Cookie_Monster

JHMEG wrote: »

By your own admission Quinn have saved you money in the past, right?

in the last 5 years they have been cheaper by 100 quid once (was with them for that year) and more expensive by at least 200-300 for 3 other. the last year they are almost double what I'm paying now.

In my experience not the be all and end all cheapest that so many people seem to think.

GM071class

JHMEG wrote: »

The point (and I really don't know how people aren't getting this) is that the truckers do not want their insurance premiums to increase with the demise of Quinn.

I'm insured with Quinn - they were 25% cheaper than the next cheapest, and I certainly don't want my premium to increase either.

Quinn leaving the insurance market would be akin to Ryanair leaving the air transport market.

I believe the truckers are suppliers, and contracted road hauliers, to the Quinn group.

What they, and alot of people, seem to forget is that IF A COMPANY CAN'T SUPPORT ITSELF, IT SHOULD BE CLOSED!!

I can't understand the attitude of wanting 'ones cake and eating it too' when it comes to financial play these days.
The FR is coming down tough on the gangsters that were abouve retribution before, I'm in full support of him!

Oh, and if the Quinn group did 'hit the wall', another company would just move in and take their place, I'll get to work on "GM071's insurance, radiator, haulage, and cement company so!":rolleyes:

Taxipete29

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

in the last 5 years they have been cheaper by 100 quid once (was with them for that year) and more expensive by at least 200-300 for 3 other. the last year they are almost double what I'm paying now.

In my experience not the be all and end all cheapest that so many people seem to think.

To be fair, the price of insurance is quite specific to the individual seeking the policy. Just because it is not cheaper for you does not mean its not cheaper for others. We dotn know what you drive, where you live, what your record is. These are all factors

dcr22B

I've counted at least 6 rigs at the Custom House so far that have 5 axles or more, wonder will the Gardaí do anything about it?

Cookie_Monster

Taxipete29 wrote: »

To be fair, the price of insurance is quite specific to the individual seeking the policy. Just because it is not cheaper for you does not mean its not cheaper for others. We dotn know what you drive, where you live, what your record is. These are all factors

yes I understand that, but conversely you can't just claim Quinn are cheaper on heresay without concrete figures to back it up. If someone wants to do that fine, otherwise there's no proof they are any cheaper than any other company

dcr22B wrote: »

I've counted at least 6 rigs at the Custom House so far that have 5 axles or more, wonder will the Gardaí do anything about it?

maybe they all have permits

dcr22B

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

maybe they all have permits

Do you think the Gardaí will check that though as they're not exactly the greatest friends of the Government or Revenue Commissioners at present!

Why oh why, they're supporting a guy who gambled with his employee's livelihoods by fluting about with his funds!

Wudyaquit

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

in the last 5 years they have been cheaper by 100 quid once (was with them for that year) and more expensive by at least 200-300 for 3 other. the last year they are almost double what I'm paying now.

Even if Quinn didn't provide the lowest quote, he certainly saved you money. Over the past 10 years, all insurance companies have copied aspects of his business model in reducing costs, much like Aer Lingus's fare having come down with increased competition from Ryanair.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

only by breaking the rules and not covering themselves. if they followed the solvency ration rules they would not have been able to offer such low prices and would not have been as competitive.

Never mind all the dodgy loan dealings...

The company is profitable - unless you know something that the company, the external entities who've lodged expressions of interest and the financial regulator himself don't.
It's well established that the solvency ratios were broken, but how was this the genesis of the profits? If you'd read any newspaper over the past 2 months you'd know that this money was used to service the anglo debt, so didn't provide profits of it's own.

paulm17781 wrote: »

What exactly is their point?

If quinn insurance goes to the wall, other quinn businesses are certain to follow. While the insurance will be picked up and some people will lose their jobs, that unemployment will be dwarfed by the numbers of people who'll be made redundant in the other arms of the business (construction and leisure).

bauderline

I really don't understand why this FR has so much support... he has achieved nothing positive here... quite the opposite... he has done serious damage to a viable and profitable business and placed thousands of jobs at risk... these are not the actions of a competent individual, his handling of the entire affair is a complete disgrace.

I sense the begrudging lynch mob at work here, personal feelings about Sean Quinn must be set aside and a balanced view of the situation taken.

BTW - The renowned investor Warren Buffet also got burned on Anglo... even the best of them got sucked in by the BS !

dcr22B

Wudyaquit wrote: »

If quinn insurance goes to the wall, other quinn businesses are certain to follow. While the insurance will be picked up and some people will lose their jobs, that unemployment will be dwarfed by the numbers of people who'll be made redundant in the other arms of the business (construction and leisure).

Hardly the regulator's fault or responsibility.

If Mr Quinn hadn't fluted around with his money etc etc, they wouldn't be in this position. There is only one person to blame for this unfortunately.