Clobbering kids

sonicthebadger*

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

antiskeptic wrote: »

This strikes me as unusual. Remember, we're dealing with typpical children who are too young to be reasoned with all that effectively.

Leaving aside perceived negatives associated with slapping, would you not agree that people respond to negative consequences and that a smack holds more by way of negative consequences than "no! Bold" would?

Assuming you agree, isn't it reasonable to expect that child A, equipped with a negligable negative consequence is more likely to engage in undesired behaviour than child B, equipped as he has been with a more significant negative consequence?

Is it also reasonable to expect that a child will think there is only negative consequences if he is caught? Whereas if a child simply trusts a parent but is too young to understand the reasons then he will think twice about engaging in undesirable behaviour just because a trusted adult has indicated it is not allowed.

sonicthebadger*

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

antiskeptic wrote: »

I doubt a child three times that age appreciates how dangerous a road can be. I should point out that the purpose of the smack in this case isn't to punish - the child isn't doing wrong to be punished for. Negative association is a better way to see it.

So you're talking about a kind of Pavlov's Dog response. Road = Pain; I am afraid of Road?

stimpson

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

antiskeptic wrote: »

For instance (bearing in mind the need to associate with the behaviour there and then)

The studies I've read maintain that ALL types of discipline (non-violent included) have very little effect on young children. What does work is perseverance, so that over time they will come to understand that they should modify their behaviour.

One of the problems identified in the study below is that parents were more likely to persevere with smacking rather than with other types of discipline, leading the parent to wrongly assume it was the smacking that worked rather than the perseverance.

Hmm. Any chance you could link to it or tell me which post it's in? Cheers..

Sure thing - it makes very good reading:

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP67%20Children%20Should%20Never%20be%20Spanked.pdf

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

antiskeptic wrote: »

I doubt a child three times that age appreciates how dangerous a road can be. I should point out that the purpose of the smack in this case isn't to punish - the child isn't doing wrong to be punished for. Negative association is a better way to see it.

12 yr olds don't appreciate how dangerous roads are? Are you going on personal experience here because I think you are seriously underestimating children.

It doesn't work though - or are you suggesting that those thousands of children who are run over every year are never smacked? There are lots of kids who are smacked who would run onto a road, lots of kids who aren't smacked who would stop, teaching road safety in conjunction with safe play areas are much more efficient way to tackle the problem.

antiskeptic wrote: »

It's just not possible to mirco-manage a childs exposure to risk in this way: running around after them to ensure their environment is bulletproof. At the point where the exposure states they need to be protected from it.

Of course it is, who can't make sure their young child doesn't get the opportunity to run onto a road? Who can't fence a garden, or take their kids to the park? Ensuring young children can't be run over is hardly micro-managing. For older children, again, road safety and a safe environment ie large park or football field rather than playing on or next to a road - it's not rocket science.

antiskeptic wrote: »

For a younger child, a smack conveys a negative assocation that no other form of communication I can think of can compete with.

None you can think of, or none you have tried?

Truley

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

antiskeptic wrote: »

Fair enough. I was looking for your views on the more typical scenario



This strikes me as unusual. Remember, we're dealing with typpical children who are too young to be reasoned with all that effectively.

Leaving aside perceived negatives associated with slapping, would you not agree that people respond to negative consequences and that a smack holds more by way of negative consequences than "no! Bold" would?

Assuming you agree, isn't it reasonable to expect that child A, equipped with a negligable negative consequence is more likely to engage in undesired behaviour than child B, equipped as he has been with a more significant negative consequence?

I don't really suscribe to your 'negative association' school of thought. I would imagine the thought of a giant motor vehicle coming at you at 100km/h would be negative association enough??

If they are too young, or in my case, not psychologically able to understand such a risk, then as Ickle said all you can really do is ensure they are not put in a situation where they could run out.

The child is not deliberately trying to be bold, he isn not trying to run in front of a car, he is usually trying to get somewhere and is caught up in the heat of the moment. Heck, I'm 22 and I still have the odd narrow escape regarding roads

It's one thing to slap a child as punishment, but if you're slapping them because of a genuine mistake, or something they do not fully understand, then I would imagine it only bring about resentment and confusion for the child.

Out of interest if your child ran across the road and narrowly missed a car, do you go over and slap him immediately for having done it? Or do you wait to see if they are sorry anyway or have been genuinelly frightened by the experience enough.

robindch

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

antiskeptic wrote: »

I doubt a child three times that age appreciates how dangerous a road can be.

A young child can't understand the danger of a road, but one can certainly understand that he/she must stay away from one. My own three-year-old is quite paranoid about staying on the "footpath", even on pedestrian areas like Grafton Street where there isn't one. And she wasn't clobbered once to give her this understanding.

antiskeptic wrote: »

I should point out that the purpose of the smack in this case isn't to punish - the child isn't doing wrong to be punished for. Negative association is a better way to see it.

Yes, the child sees that violence can be used to control other people and once they understand that, they will choose to use violence themselves.

What I've noticed as a parent more than any other single thing is that my kid's political awareness (who's in, who's out, what's appropriate to do and what's not appropriate to do) is the most developed of all her sensibilities at this time. The only time she'd ever run out into a road is when she simply doesn't notice there's a road there to start with and all the violence in the world won't change that.

caseyann

I got smacked as a kid and so did my sister and never hurt me in slightest Mentally or emotionally.Got over it didnt impress on me that in order to control someone i should hit them.So that blows that theory out of water.

I am against severe smacking of children,a slight smack is sometimes needed(but only as last measure.The more smacking has stopped and parents afraid to do it.The increase in kids who run the streets and arent afraid of any consequences.
I find.

newtoboards

Religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

I was hit regularly as a child for everything from not getting my homework done on time to forgetting to bring my laundry down and although I agree it has done me no harm I also think it has done me no good whatsoever either. I wasn't a bold child and was pretty quiet. I was a bit of a bookworm and used to get caught up reading books and this always got me into trouble. To this day I get consumed by a book once I start reading it until it's finished. In my opinion even a smack humiliates a child and that's about all that comes from hitting a child. No lessons can be learned if you just lash out with a smack. I have never raised my hand to a child and have instead used the warnings and naughty point when nieces and nephews stay with me or i'm minding them. They are very good well rounded children and have never been smacked in their homes either. They range in age from 8 months to 4 years and are just a joy to mind. I hope that when I have children of my own that I will never raise my hand ever to them but i'll never say never.

ColmDawson

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

I got smacked as a kid and so did my sister and never hurt me in slightest Mentally or emotionally.Got over it didnt impress on me that in order to control someone i should hit them.So that blows that theory out of water.

No it doesn't. Just because you weren't (or don't think you were) psychologically affected doesn't mean others aren't.

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

caseyann wrote: »

I got smacked as a kid and so did my sister and never hurt me in slightest Mentally or emotionally.Got over it didnt impress on me that in order to control someone i should hit them.So that blows that theory out of water.

There is a friend of our family currently languishing at her majesty's pleasure...his parents smacked him to teach him what they didn't like and he did the same to some guy in a club - they have even said if they could do things again, they wouldn't have used smacking...so that blows your theory out the water. Ain't personal anecdotes great?!

caseyann

ColmDawson wrote: »

No it doesn't. Just because you weren't (or don't think you were) psychologically affected doesn't mean others aren't.

ofc i wasnt,i love my parents and good slap,thought me a thing or two when i didnt listen.


You are talking on the side of severe abuse and damage thats a whole different kettle of fish.

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

There is a friend of our family currently languishing at her majesty's pleasure...his parents smacked him to teach him what they didn't like and he did the same to some guy in a club - they have even said if they could do things again, they wouldn't have used smacking...so that blows your theory out the water. Ain't personal anecdotes great?!

Bull ****,he made a choice to do that,good excuse.

ColmDawson

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

Bull ****,he made a choice to do that,good excuse.

I like how your personal anecdote is theory-destroying and hers is bullshit.

caseyann

ColmDawson wrote: »

I like how your personal anecdote is theory-destroying and hers is bullshit.

WE could all use that excuse,truth is people decide for themselves what they are going to do.
People saying a slap from parents will make a person slap to get someone to bend to their will or power.
Plenty of people who have beaten severely and don't go out beating up anyone.Its a cop out and simple excuse.

Wait i got stabbed i will stab someone.

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

Not a word of a lie, you teach kids to listen and respect thru smacking them then it's an obvious risk that that's the lesson they learn. It's the parents who regret the smacking, btw, it wasn't his excuse tho it's a pity they couldn't have taught him better techniques of dealing with unwanted behaviour. May well have been a different story - maybe not, of course, we'll never know.

The point was people can and do have issues over being smacked, not beaten, even light taps on the back of the hand. Just because you aren't one of them doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I work with adults who were smacked on the back of the hand with a ruler at school because they weren't learning quickly enough and when they first come to class, they are literally shaking with fear. The consequences of childhood shame and feeling helpless to a bigger and stronger adult can last a life-time.

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Not a word of a lie, you teach kids to listen and respect thru smacking them then it's an obvious risk that that's the lesson they learn. It's the parents who regret the smacking, btw, it wasn't his excuse tho it's a pity they couldn't have taught him better techniques of dealing with unwanted behaviour. May well have been a different story - maybe not, of course, we'll never know.

The point was people can and do have issues over being smacked, not beaten, even light taps on the back of the hand. Just because you aren't one of them doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I work with adults who were smacked on the back of the hand with a ruler at school because they weren't learning quickly enough and when they first come to class, they are literally shaking with fear. The consequences of childhood shame and feeling helpless to a bigger and stronger adult can last a life-time.

They must have been beaten severly,all a slap with a ruler thought me in school is to listen and not mess or i was going to feel sore.
And alot of time i laughed

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

caseyann wrote: »

WE could all use that excuse,truth is people decide for themselves what they are going to do.
People saying a slap from parents will make a person slap to get someone to bend to their will or power.
Plenty of people who have beaten severely and don't go out beating up anyone.Its a cop out and simple excuse.

Wait i got stabbed i will stab someone.

It's not about a once off tho, is it? We're not talking about a random event triggering someone to do the same to someone else. We're talking about growing up with a particular behaviour and it becoming an acceptable part of their psyche, of behavioural cycles and teaching a child through techniques that are, oddly enough, unacceptable to use on a stranger.

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It's not about a once off tho, is it? We're not talking about a random event triggering someone to do the same to someone else. We're talking about growing up with a particular behaviour and it becoming an acceptable part of their psyche, of behavioural cycles and teaching a child through techniques that are, oddly enough, unacceptable to use on a stranger.

I didnt get ruler to hand once off,i got it actually a good few times lol.And the teacher who did it i adore her still to this day.We get on great.

That comes back to the severe beatings,not a slap by a parent to a child big difference,in order to have that kind of effect of either fear or aggression come out in someone in later years it has to be vicious and constant every day.

And even if you dint hit your child,majority of boys hit each other and others as they grow up,but nothing to do with parents slapping them.
That's Too do with male testosterone.

If i saw a girl who went around hitting people that would be different view i would have,and imagine she did get beaten alot.

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

caseyann wrote: »

They must have been beaten severly,all a slap with a ruler thought me in school is to listen and not mess or i was going to feel sore.
And alot of time i laughed

Again, you are not the world and the world is not you. They weren't beaten severely, I don't understand why you are unable to understand that things affect people differently. Scores of people live through all manner of horrendous childhoods and grow up to be perfectly rounded individuals...but then others don't, lower down the scale and the same applies - is that so hard to understand? Why do you think corporal punishment is no longer acceptable in schools? Do you think it was because it was the most effective way of getting students to learn?

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Again, you are not the world and the world is not you. They weren't beaten severely, I don't understand why you are unable to understand that things affect people differently. Scores of people live through all manner of horrendous childhoods and grow up to be perfectly rounded individuals...but then others don't, lower down the scale and the same applies - is that so hard to understand? Why do you think corporal punishment is no longer acceptable in schools? Do you think it was because it was the most effective way of getting students to learn?

No people are saying on this thread that any form of slapping teaches a child to use it to get their way when they get older.And i said that's bull ****,people choose their own actions.
And then you say they weren't beaten severely so they were abused mentally also.There is a difference.

I think it was banned from schools as no one has a right to put their hands on another persons child and because alot of them were finger and slap happy in schools,and beat children in some places profusely and maliciously.And alot of them did it because they enjoyed it.

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

I don't think people were saying it definitely will or does, just that it may. For every case of someone being smacked and saying it did them no harm you can find another where the opposite is true.

No, much as you'd like to believe there had to have been beatings or metal abuse at play, no, in my experience adults can be affected from much less than that kind of severe trauma in childhood and when there are so many alternative techniques at parents disposal, can one that even carries that risk really be classed as worthwhile?

caseyann

Give an example.

Jack and peter and Simon 12 years old,go out to the shop,and rob a car.
Jacks parents sit down and have a talk with him about it and give him his punishment of no money grounding and no privileges.
Simon goes home and his parents beat him severely and lock him in his room calling him names.
And peters parents give him firm talking to a clip around ear and ground him.


Ok deal with it now and give your punishment,and think about it sinking in.

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

I'm not sure how that deals with any of the points I'm making?

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I'm not sure how that deals with any of the points I'm making?

I wasnt putting that to you i was putting it to people who are so hell bent on saying slapping is so bad.
Them to deal with it,because they will never know if they are going to get into that situation among many others,because the person always chooses what road to take themselves,even with good guidance and no slapping.


Like my friend climbing out window one night and when she was 13,when her mother caught her she slapped her ass good and proper.
Deal with it she isnt going to listen to pleads and explaining of how its dangerous it could have been for her.

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't think people were saying it definitely will or does, just that it may. For every case of someone being smacked and saying it did them no harm you can find another where the opposite is true.

No, much as you'd like to believe there had to have been beatings or metal abuse at play, no, in my experience adults can be affected from much less than that kind of severe trauma in childhood and when there are so many alternative techniques at parents disposal, can one that even carries that risk really be classed as worthwhile?

Then you are saying basically they are mentally unstable in some way or emotionally due to what? Or some how weaker then everyone else?

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

Who, the children or the parents?

If you mean the kids then no, people are just different. Why do some people go off the rails after a tough childhood and their siblings don't? We are all different, we react differently to sometimes very similar circumstances. Being affected by getting a smack on the hand at school isn't an affliction, it's the fault of the school system, that's why we don't do it anymore. Same goes for smacking by parents, imo. There are thousands of parenting techniques, lots of people who weren't smacked can testify they work. Lots of people who were smacked that it didn't work on. It's an inefficient method of discipline and, depending on the child, it can also be very short sighted. Doesn't seem like a very sensible option to me...each to their own, of course.

The Mad Hatter

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann, what makes you think that your individual experience is representative of society at large?

Truley

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

I got smacked as a kid and so did my sister and never hurt me in slightest Mentally or emotionally.Got over it didnt impress on me that in order to control someone i should hit them.So that blows that theory out of water.

I am against severe smacking of children,a slight smack is sometimes needed(but only as last measure.The more smacking has stopped and parents afraid to do it.The increase in kids who run the streets and arent afraid of any consequences.
I find.

I was slapped (not beaten or clobbered) as a child and it had a profoundly negative effect on me. So which of us is right?

I have never suscribed to the idea that less smacking = more delinquency. I would really love to do a study of prisoners or children from areas with high social problems and see what proportion of them weren't smacked enough.

I would wager the complete opposite would be the case. I have found from my own experience in childcare that children who are smacked are more aggressive, poor communicators/negotiators and less respectful of adults in general. That's from my own observation anyway.

caseyann

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

caseyann, what makes you think that your individual experience is representative of society at large?

I dont,i am pointing out the fact as many others have a simple smack to pull someone back into line doesn't effect people in negative all the time.
Made my point.

caseyann

Truley wrote: »

I was slapped (not beaten or clobbered) as a child and it had a profoundly negative effect on me. So which of us is right?

I have never suscribed to the idea that less smacking = more delinquency. I would really love to do a study of prisoners or children from areas with high social problems and see what proportion of them weren't smacked enough.

I would wager the complete opposite would be the case. I have found from my own experience in childcare that children who are smacked are more aggressive, poor communicators/negotiators and less respectful of adults in general. That's from my own observation anyway.

It would be fifty fifty,again people choose their own life paths.

Why did a slap from your parents effect you negatively,did you tell them?
Do you hate them now or lash out at people or feel in adequate or unloved?

The Mad Hatter

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

I dont,i am pointing out the fact as many others have a simple smack to pull someone back into line doesn't effect people in negative all the time.
Made my point.

What you said was:

I got smacked as a kid and so did my sister and never hurt me in slightest Mentally or emotionally.Got over it didnt impress on me that in order to control someone i should hit them.So that blows that theory out of water.

First of all, you don't know whether that's true, and, secondly, even if it was, it's still only true of you. No-one has said that every kid who is hit ends up being scarred, but it has been shown that hitting kids tends to lead to aggressive behaviour. Your unique experience doesn't change that.

caseyann

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

What you said was:



First of all, you don't know whether that's true, and, secondly, even if it was, it's still only true of you. No-one has said that every kid who is hit ends up being scarred, but it has been shown that hitting kids tends to lead to aggressive behaviour. Your unique experience doesn't change that.

All my friends growing up got smacked when they pushed things to far with their parents,and not a single one of them are aggressive or scarred.

Did it effect you growing up,or was the lack of love along with the smacks and ignoring you all a basis on how you feel now?

Truley

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

It would be fifty fifty,again people choose their own life paths.

Why did a slap from your parents effect you negatively,did you tell them?
Do you hate them now or lash out at people or feel in adequate or unloved?

No, I am the least violent person you will ever meet. I am also very timid by nature, have never lashed out at someone, either verbally or physically in my entire life.

And no, I don't hate my parents. I do however think being slapped has affected my relationship with them in a negative way. I found communicating with them difficult, and also resented the times I was unjustly punished over something I felt was unfair.

For example I was once slapped after getting a paper cut and saying 'sh*t.' Yes I knew swearing was a no no in our household, but this upset me for two reasons. Firstly because my parents knew that I hadn't done it out of badness or defiance, secondly because they themselves weren't adverse to swearing in the heat of the moment either, it wasn't from the wind I learned that word. This is why I argue the 'running out in the road' excuse is exceptionally bad.

I hated double standards, the fact that I wouldn't get a chance to explain myself, the fact that I was seen as a lesser human being in my household.
Children pick this kind of thing up quickly, they recieve a disproportionate amount of respect within the family and as such don't feel the need to give the same respect back.

I have been working with children for the guts of eight years now, I have never, never been in a situation where I thought slapping would be beneficial, even if I was allowed. Keeping in mind I have worked with children with severe behavioural issues, the kinds of kids who 'run the streets' as you put it.

caseyann

Truley wrote: »

No, I am the least violent person you will ever meet. I am also very timid by nature, have never lashed out at someone, either verbally or physically in my entire life.

And no, I don't hate my parents. I do however think being slapped has affected my relationship with them in a negative way. I found communicating with them difficult, and also resented the times I was unjustly punished over something I felt was unfair.

For example I was once slapped after getting a paper cut and saying 'sh*t.' Yes I knew swearing was a no no in our household, but this upset me for two reasons. Firstly because my parents knew that I hadn't done it out of badness or defiance, secondly because they themselves weren't adverse to swearing in the heat of the moment either, it wasn't from the wind I learned that word. This is why I argue the 'running out in the road' excuse is exceptionally bad.

I hated double standards, the fact that I wouldn't get a chance to explain myself, the fact that I was seen as a lesser human being in my household.
Children pick this kind of thing up quickly, they receive a disproportionate amount of respect within the family and as such don't feel the need to give the same respect back.
I have been working with children for the guts of eight years now, I have never, never been in a situation where I thought slapping would be beneficial, even if I was allowed. Keeping in mind I have worked with children with severe behavioural issues, the kinds of kids who 'run the streets' as you put it.

I am sorry to hear it effected you like that,and a slap for **** when you cut your self was wrong imo.
Not nice to have negative relationship with your parents or not be able to communicate.
I have worked in schools for 7 years and i never had reason or cause or wanted to want to slap a child as they are not mine to do so to in first place,and i can send them home.

And children who act out anger works from many situations and not a simple smack.Its from neglect peer bullying and verbal abuse and been ignored or feeling unloved and smacked or beaten by their parents or family.
But is not smacking alone.

Truley

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

I am sorry to hear it effected you like that,and a slap for **** when you cut your self was wrong imo.
Not nice to have negative relationship with your parents or not be able to communicate.
I have worked in schools for 7 years and i never had reason or cause or wanted to want to slap a child as they are not mine to do so to in first place,and i can send them home.

And children who act out anger works from many situations and not a simple smack.Its from neglect peer bullying and verbal abuse and been ignored or feeling unloved and smacked or beaten by their parents or family.
But is not smacking alone.

Out of interest if you feel you can adequately look after and control a classroom of children without the need for physical discipline then what makes you think it can't be done in the household?

caseyann

Truley wrote: »

Out of interest if you feel you can adequately look after and control a classroom of children without the need for physical discipline then what makes you think it can't be done in the household?

Ofc it can never said it couldn't.I simply said a smack for a kid doesn't ruin their lives from their parents.Unless it is in a situation like yours was as an example.That is pretty unfair.A simple please don't curse and checking your cut and nurturing you would have sufficed there.

p.s i will lend you my kids for a few months see how you fair out,lunny bin time for you lol

The Mad Hatter

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

All my friends growing up got smacked when they pushed things to far with their parents,and not a single one of them are aggressive or scarred.

That's still anecdotal. And, frankly, you'll have some difficulty on an atheism forum making arguments this piss-poor. As for this:

Did it effect you growing up,or was the lack of love along with the smacks and ignoring you all a basis on how you feel now?

I'm not sure where to begin, aside from pointing out that it's personal, extremely presumptuous and wrong on every point.

Truley

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

Ofc it can never said it couldn't.I simply said a smack for a kid doesn't ruin their lives from their parents.Unless it is in a situation like yours was as an example.That is pretty unfair.A simple please don't curse and checking your cut and nurturing you would have sufficed there.

p.s i will lend you my kids for a few months see how you fair out,lunny bin time for you lol

I think we are all agreed that a slap wont ruin the child's life. The issue we are debating is whether it should be used as a method of discipline. I believe that there are better, non-violent alternatives to slapping, that in my opinion are more effective and positive. Many people believe that if you don't use slapping you are somehow failing to discipline adequately, yourself included.

caseyann

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

That's still anecdotal. And, frankly, you'll have some difficulty on an atheism forum making arguments this piss-poor. As for this:



I'm not sure where to begin, aside from pointing out that it's personal, extremely presumptuous and wrong on every point.

So is yours and anyone else who assumes they know what is suitable punishment for other peoples kids

caseyann

Truley wrote: »

I think we are all agreed that a slap wont ruin the child's life. The issue we are debating is whether it should be used as a method of discipline. I believe that there are better, non-violent alternatives to slapping, that in my opinion are more effective and positive. Many people believe that if you don't use slapping you are somehow failing to discipline adequately, yourself included.

No it shouldn't be used but no one should be able to get up on their high horses and tell people they are wrong if they give a smack to a child as last resort

Right so you know what i think and believe do you,you must be a mind reader

The Mad Hatter

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

So is yours and anyone else who assumes they know what is suitable punishment for other peoples kids

My what?

caseyann

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

My what?

Opinions and guesses.

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

caseyann wrote: »

Opinions and guesses.

You said yourself it shouldn't be used...so it's an opinion you share and clearly a guess you share as well?

The Mad Hatter

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

Opinions and guesses.

So..."so is [your opinions and guesses] and anyone else who assumes they know what is suitable punishment for other peoples kids."

caseyann

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

You said yourself it shouldn't be used...so it's an opinion you share and clearly a guess you share as well?

Difference is i wouldn't be against a slap either,but you are and no one else unless its only thing a parent uses to deter behaviour not wanted,has the right to tell another parent how to rear their kids.
See i can keep my nose out of other peoples family business unless its a form of abuse.

caseyann

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

So..."so is [your opinions and guesses] and anyone else who assumes they know what is suitable punishment for other peoples kids."

Exactly mind your own business as i would mind my own about yours.;)
Any child who is loved and cared for every day and respected in their home and listened to who might get a smack when they have over stepped the mark are not going to be scarred in anyway at all.
People who have been scarred for life due to smacking its beating or verbal or emotional abuse along with negligence that causes it.

Ickle Magoo

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

caseyann wrote: »

Difference is i wouldn't be against a slap either,but you are and no one else unless its only thing a parent uses to deter behaviour not wanted,has the right to tell another parent how to rear their kids.
See i can keep my nose out of other peoples family business unless its a form of abuse.

So you think it shouldn't be used but you aren't against a slap either? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm not sure where you think noses are in other peoples business, this a debate on smacking on a public forum, people are free to read or ignore the thread as they see fit, if they feel defensive or awkward then perhaps that tells its own story?

People don't think children shouldn't be smacked because they like to be nosey, it's out of concern for the welfare of children - have a read of the NSPCC website, or any of the other children's' charities that are opposed to smacking and ask yourself why. How do you think a ban on corporal punishment was introduced? It was thanks to the campaigning of concerned parents/teachers/politicians; and you appear to support that intervention against what was the norm in those days...ironically because you think "alot of them were finger and slap happy." - you appear to think that is damaging and yet can't apply the same logic to some childrens' home environment...?

Incidentally, parents are advised and told how to rear their kids in a million and one ways, from avoiding E-numbers right thru to how many hours sleep children should be getting, right up to wearing seat-belts and not leaving them home alone - even if you think parents should be free to do whatever the hell they like with their own kids regardless, like it or not, many aspects of parenting are legislated.

eblistic

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

caseyann wrote: »

no one else unless its only thing a parent uses to deter behaviour not wanted,has the right to tell another parent how to rear their kids.

Not true at all. There are plenty of rights a child has regardless of how a parent thinks they would like to treat it. Some are enshrined in law, others are not. We've moved a long way from the notion of parents thinking they own their kids and can do what they like with them.

robindch

Not religious, have kids, would hit a kid

caseyann wrote: »

I simply said a smack for a kid doesn't ruin their lives [...] i will lend you my kids for a few months see how you fair out

Out of interest, if you do hit your children, what things do you do it for?

And again, if you do hit them, have any of them ever come up afterwards to say sorry for whatever it was (without being asked to)?

Truley

Not religious, no kids, would hit any future kids

caseyann wrote: »

No it shouldn't be used but no one should be able to get up on their high horses and tell people they are wrong if they give a smack to a child as last resort

Right so you know what i think and believe do you,you must be a mind reader

Not a mind reader, I read your post which said the less likely a parent is to slap their children the more likely they will 'run the street' which I've taken to mean behave badly.

caseyann wrote: »

The more smacking has stopped and parents afraid to do it.The increase in kids who run the streets and arent afraid of any consequences.
I find.

You've joined this debate far too late casey, nobody here has said smacking should be outlawed in the home, nobody has said parent's who slap should have their children taken away, we're not running some sort of campaign. It's just an internet discussion of our own ideas and experiences on the subject. Their is a similar debate in the Christianity forum about how much better smacking is and how children who aren't smacked inevitably grow up to undisciplined and spoiled. Maybe they are the ones on the high horse?