St. Patrick's Guild

Mammyof2

Dear All,

My husband was adopted from St. Patricks, Temple Hill, in 1975/76, he has just sent a letter to St. Patrick's Guild, Merrion Road, who we believe should have his file, requesting his non-identifying info.

Any idea how long this should take, and should we follow it up at some stage?

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Mammyof2

Please??

trixy

Hi there
I was also in Patricks Guild in the 70s but had to conctac the adoption board, they made an appointment a few months later to see me. From what I believe and has been written lately it may take upto a year or 2.

Ring the adoption board today and they will guide you where to go

MaryMagdalene

Hi Mammyof2

First has he registered with the National Contact Preference Register?

Then I suggest he looks at the tracing guides on this site - from all I have read here and on other sites it could be years before you even get an appointment to see a social worker.

I suggest you find out all you can and then assuming you find her write to the adoption board saying you will contact her if they don't.

In those days Social workers told adoptive parents what they (naturally) wanted to hear and as we (birth/natural mothers) never knew what was written. We are STILL not legally entitled to our files and therefore have no power over what is/was recorded so could/can not correct any discrepancies. Now-a-days I think they are far more honest but in general they are working with false documents.

Sorry I am a natural mother who has been lucky enough to be reunited but I have first hand knowledge of the lies that can be on files etc as I have a copy of mine and I also know what they verbally told the parents about me!!!!!!

Good luck in your quest and its great that you support him. It won't be easy for any of you but I hope that it will be sucessful and worthwhile.

MM

Mammyof2

Thank you so much for your response, we were given a letter a few months ago by his adopted mother with some details about his mother in it, it came from the nuns, besides that nothing else.

He has registered but nothing came of it to be honest.

We are thinking of looking for his birth cert ourselves,how did you get to meet up with your daughter, congrats by the way.

MaryMagdalene

She came looking for me - we aren't allowed to make contact so I waited and waited and waited and then she finally arrived

I have always kept in contact with the agency so was easy for her to find me and she was aware that I was in contact with them so it was an easier decision for her to make I think as she knew I would be receptive.

BTW I hope that the 'Good Sheppard' thread doesn't colour any of your future stays in the Dunboyne hotel .

Mammyof2

Thats wonderful for you both!

I am so hoping DH's mother wants contact, I am afraid she wont and what it will do to him.

MaryMagdalene

I hope so too but I guess he has to take that chance to get closure one way or another.

I guess you can only hope - I remember when she was around 20 I found out (about 2 yrs later!) that she had contacted the agency and then never replied again and I got so angry I destroyed the things I had kept of my time back then e.g. my diary of my time there etc

Haven't confessed that to her yet :eek:

Mammyof2

Well forget about all that now its great you have reunited, and its a great story x

My Dh was brought to see his bm when he was 3 although he cant really remember it, does anybody know was this standard practice? Apparently she was very upset and signed the papers shortly afterwards, he was with his adopted family from 6 months.

CathyMoran

Sorry that I did not get back to you sooner - we have a 26 day old who needed milk so my first attempt at replying was scrapped! I was with my husband when was doing his search a few years ago. My advice is just to be there for him. My husband did not want help with the significant legwork but your husband may be different. There are trace guides at the top of the page http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055543715 which may help.

lilyrose

hi, I have been dealing with St. Patricks guild and im sorry to say they are a disaster - i got an appointment quick enough as my birhtmother had been in contact but unfortunatly the social worker i was dealing with has left and I havent heard nothing since apart from a very rude email from sr.Francis.

I wouldnt hold your breathe

NGibbler

Hello All

This is very strange i was just talking to saint patricks guild on the phone and went online to look at fourms about tracing!

Im looking for my birth mom i got all the non identifing information like 2 years ago and im still waiting for contact, but still no luck,

I wish you all the best in your searches mine seems to have gone down the drain

neelyohara

lilyrose wrote: »

heard nothing since apart from a very rude email from sr.Francis

Ah Sr Francis, I haven't heard about her in a long time. She's a formidable force when it comes to extracting information.

Grudgingly I have to say that in the end she did come through for me (tracing my mothers natural family). She had this incredible roundabout way of tracking somebody down... in so far as dealing with missionaries in Tasmania. Had she some common sense she would have seen (as referenced many times in the file) my Grandfather boarded at Blackrock. When I got the file I gave the archivist in Blackrock a quick call. She couldn't understand why Sr Fancis didn't call their directly, they could have provided her with a wealth of information including contact information. A day later the archivist sent me a lovely package of information on my Grandfather... from photographs of school plays, records of his fees paid (which includes what he had for breakfast, when he had his shoes repaired, etc!). She even put me in contact with people he went to school with.

When the natural family agreed to release their information she prepared a large file for us. It started with what could be described as a five page 'story' of the adoption. Dates, times, names, etc made up from notes. A timeline of what had happened. This was then followed by a thick file of photocopied letters. I was disappointed to see some letters had black marker through them, when I queried this I was told 'That doesn't concern you dear...'. I believe my great-grandmother (on grandfathers side) became friends with the social worker involved and those blacked out lines may related to that.

Oh and my mother was 'adopted' in the 40s (predating adoption law), technically she used her mothers name up until the week before she married (at 27) when her name changed to that of her adoptive parents - so we always had her mothers first and last name.

I guess the point of my rambling is that eventually they should manage to provide you with information. This may take years. I was a little girl (sitting under a table with a doll) when I first went to the Guild. We finally made contact with my grandfathers family when I was 25.

The only advice I can give is to annoy them, keep your file fresh... write to them, email them, telephone them. Aim to make contact every couple of weeks looking for new information. Take every hint they give you and work on it (but don't get distracted). Keep on top of the legislation, be active in forums and groups and make contacts.... oh, and be nice but firm with Sr Francis!

Had the researchers in the Guild some cop on they could have traced my grandfather years before he died, the file is almost a breadcrumb trail to his location.

Good luck with your search... you'll get there eventually.

MaryMagdalene

NGibbler wrote: »

Hello All

This is very strange i was just talking to saint patricks guild on the phone and went online to look at fourms about tracing!

Im looking for my birth mom i got all the non identifing information like 2 years ago and im still waiting for contact, but still no luck,

I wish you all the best in your searches mine seems to have gone down the drain

Hi NGibbler, you are welcome to butt in any time .

Have you looked at the tracing guided in the posting above by Cathy? They are your best bet as the Agencies are generally extremelly slow.

NGibbler

MaryMagdalene wrote: »

Hi NGibbler, you are welcome to butt in any time .

Have you looked at the tracing guided in the posting above by Cathy? They are your best bet as the Agencies are generally extremelly slow.

Hi MaryMagdalene, Thanks

I am going to go try find my original birth cert in the Records room, Silly question wonder if you may know? Since i have a Birthcert already dated and stamped from my birthday 12/12/87 with my adoptive parents name ect on it, They agency told me that is my only birthcert that was ever issused for me ? I was not not adpoted untill 22nd March 88 so was i just invisible untill then, The agency will not even tell me where i was from dec-march.....

PS: I read some of your previous post, Congrats on meeting your daughter brilliant news,

Any help would be greatly appreciated

N

MaryMagdalene

Thanks for that, it is great to be reunited .

I think what you have is your adopted birth cert which has your adoptive parents names and your adopted name but I have never seen one personally.

By law you have to have an original one with your original name and your birth mothers name - I got this for my daughter.

However, there are others that have more knowledge of that and that have actually gone to the records room and found their original birth certs so hopefully some of them will come on-line and give their view soon.

NGibbler

Thank you

Its nice to see it from the other side too, Fingers crossed ill keep it posted

N x

kelso213

Hi NGibbler,

MaryMagdelene is right. What you have sounds like the amended birth cert that would have been issued to your parents. Its essentially your entry into the Adopted Register.

Everyone is entered into the Births register and that entry should have your birth mothers name, maybe her address at the time and the name you were given.

I have benn lucky enough to be issued mine by the Adoption board but you should be able to find it if you have some details.

NGibbler

kelso213 wrote: »

Hi NGibbler,

MaryMagdelene is right. What you have sounds like the amended birth cert that would have been issued to your parents. Its essentially your entry into the Adopted Register.

Everyone is entered into the Births register and that entry should have your birth mothers name, maybe her address at the time and the name you were given.

I have benn lucky enough to be issued mine by the Adoption board but you should be able to find it if you have some details.

Hi Kelso

Thanks for your input, Im going to go try locate my Birthcert just need to get the time off work to do it

Did it take you long to to get yours?..... Hope your search is/went well

N x

kathy finn

what u have is an adoption cert, every child born in ireland has a birthcert all u have to do is search for a baby born on ur date of birth, if u have ur non id info it will make it much easier. look for the fathers name missing and the surnames of baby and mother the same a real give away.kathy

gezzah

it can take a long time it took us about 18 months to find my mums birth mother and then after that she did not want to meet my mum so be prepared for the rejection hopefully you will not have the same experience but sister Teresa is the best one to deal with if she is still there x good luck

Mammyof2 wrote: »

Dear All,

My husband was adopted from St. Patricks, Temple Hill, in 1975/76, he has just sent a letter to St. Patrick's Guild, Merrion Road, who we believe should have his file, requesting his non-identifying info.

Any idea how long this should take, and should we follow it up at some stage?

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Kind Regards,

jendavnlillie

Hi,

I am just starting my search for an adopted sister - St Patricks was the agency. I've sent the letter of looking for the non-identifying info, how long will this intial step of them replying take???
I also intend on going to Joyce House and searching for the Adopted Birth Cert and then hopefully get enough info to locate her from the Extract of adopted childrens registry.
Am I being too optomistic? I am aware that she may not want to have any contact and am prepared to be dissappointed but am really hoping its not going to take years to trace her???? Is it?

NGibbler

jendavnlillie wrote: »

Hi,

I am just starting my search for an adopted sister - St Patricks was the agency. I've sent the letter of looking for the non-identifying info, how long will this intial step of them replying take???
I also intend on going to Joyce House and searching for the Adopted Birth Cert and then hopefully get enough info to locate her from the Extract of adopted childrens registry.
Am I being too optomistic? I am aware that she may not want to have any contact and am prepared to be dissappointed but am really hoping its not going to take years to trace her???? Is it?

Hi jendavnlillie

Just a bit of advise, Any letter you do send them make your it is registered and then follow it up with a phone call. It is a very VERY slow process in my experience adn they tend to just forget about you if you dont keep at them! I have been searching for my BM and Sister there too and its been 4 years. hopefully this will not be the case for you. my way of thinking is be prepared for the worst then anything else you get or find is a plus

Wish you all the best in your search!

neelyohara

It can be a painfully slow process at the best of times and it really depends on what sort of information you are looking for. Getting the basic non-identifying details from the file shouldn't be too much hassle but it does take time - think of the volume of applications, getting into the archives to physically locate a hard-copy of the file, searching through the file for information.

Again as NGibbler said send your letter via registered mail and do follow up with phone calls.

I did, after years of searching, manage to trace my grandfather and see the guts of my mothers adoption file (I say 'the guts of' because I honestly don't think they'd hand everything over... and even the information I did get has occasional black marker running over text!).

I would ask the Guild to trace your sister for you - this is a service they can offer. They have access to much more information that you ever will so it really shouldn't be that hard for them to find her.

As far as I know they don't have any professional researchers or genealogists working with them and in my experience they failed to follow up on the most obvious of clues - for example my grandfather has an extremely rare surname and the file stated he was a border in Blackrock College.

When I did get his information I telephoned Blackrock who were aghast that the Guild just didn't contact them directly - they keep impeccable records and had his contact information available via the alumni service. A few days later the fantastic archivist there had sent me copies of photographs, year books, ledgers, records, grades, notes, etc from his time there.

Had they contacted Blackrock at the beginning we could have saved ourselves 15 years of phone calls, letters and endless searching.

Just KEEP ANNOYING THEM. Get to know the staff, keep in regular contact, etc.

Good luck!

jendavnlillie

Hi,
thanks for all your previous replies. I got a reply from them within a couple of weeks, they needed a few things from my Mother but said they had no contact from my sibling.
Today I spent in the Research office in the Irish Life Mall - this is where all the Registrys have gone from Joyce House- and after a painfully long time I found 3 people whop could be my sibling.
Now the Trace Guide that Adoption Ireland is what I used but when I went up to the reception to fill in forms requesting the Birth Certs( for adopted people) I was told that I have to contac t Roscommon directly. I can't see them sending me out details just cos I ask them to??? Any advise on where to go frolm here????

Sipsy

Hi All, I have been searching for records of my grandfather who was born in Manchester and taken to the Guild as a baby by his mother.
I've asked Sr Francis for info but she has said that MJ Cruice (Founder)kept very bad records and I had very little to go on:(
He remembers being in The Sacred Heart Home and made firm friends there but he was "Adopted" at 4 years of age..Does anyone know if there are records of the children who went through the home or even the infant hospital in Blackrock...thanks all:)

Peter Joseph Maguire

Hi Mammy2,

I am very interested in your case, my adoption was handled through St. Patrick's Guild in 1983 and Im in search for my natural family.

I've been contacted by a person claiming to be my brother. Only problem is they have a number of Adopted certificates of babies born on the same day as me

My supposed brother gave me my mothers name, my original birth name and brothers names and DOB's. I am just hoping that the guild will release the non-identifying info to me.

What info did you ask them? Do you know if they will have my birth certificate on file? I presume with the non identifying info I can find my birth cert in the live birth registry in Dublin.

Did they release your husband's mother's name?

thanks in advance for any info, would really help.

Peter Maguire.

neelyohara

Peter Joseph Maguire wrote: »

I've been contacted by a person claiming to be my brother. Only problem is they have a number of Adopted certificates of babies born on the same day as me

My supposed brother gave me my mothers name, my original birth name and brothers names and DOB's. I am just hoping that the guild will release the non-identifying info to me.

How did your brother find your details?

Having your original name is a good start. I'm not 100% in the know with recent adoptions so hopefully someone here will correct me if I make a mistake.

The first rule of searching is to always chance your arm! Asking never hurt anyone. The guild will only release your mothers details if it has appeared on your original birth certificate. In my case we always knew my grandmothers name (especially as adoption wasn't formalised back then). In any case apply for it anyway.

If I were you I'd contact the guild, tell them that this person has contacted you and that you request that they verify the information. Provide them with as much information as you can. His name, his mothers name, DOBs, addresses, etc. If your mother has passed on they will contact the next of kin... which hopefully should be your brother. Ask them if they need any additional information (perhaps a death cert...).

They should contact your mother/brother to request to release the information.

The most annoying part of dealing with them is that they have to search for these people... in this case you can hand them the details on a plate and just ask them 'Is this me?!'.

Everything going well they should be able to release your file to you. It will have copies of any correspondence that went through at the time and it can build up an interesting picture of who your parents were and what was happening at the time of your birth.

If this isn't your brother then at least you've initiated the search. You can always request the non-identifying information from your file. It's a matter of slowly building up your information.

It can be a little scary dipping your toe into the water but you'll get the hang of it!

Good luck!

paulmcg1

Hi all,

I was adopted in 1979 from St. Patricks Guild. Five years ago I got in contact with my birth mother through Sr Theresa. I thought she was fine to deal with. I dont think there were any significant delays getting the non-identifying info. I found out that my birth parents had gotten married a few years after I was given up for adoption and had three more boys so that was a surprise. Birth mother was young having me.

After a few months I met with my birth mother, didn't go through the guild for this, only in the initial stages. I would recommend going through the guild to arrange reunion. The meeting was amicable but we haven't met since.The meeting location, and certain circumstances I will not go into, didn't make for the best initial meeting. I didn't get a chance to really talk to her.No privacy. Still in contact though.

I often wonder about the time between when I was born and handed over to the guild and when my adoptive parents collected me. I think it was about 1-2 months early 1979, not too sure how long though. I think I was in Temple Hill. I wonder about the care given, the conditions, the routine etc. There is a period there where nobody I know can account for and I wonder about it.

I would like to see my real birth cert. It really annoys me that I dont have a 'real' birth cert. I have a 'Certified copy of entry in the Adopted Childrens Register'. I am a private person and when my birth cert is required I dont like handing over this document.

I would like to be able to look through any files relating to me. What files would there be? St Patricks Guild have a file presumably containing details of the adoption. Would this file contain feeding, medical records or any other information of time spent in a nursery? I just have a desire to fill in the gaps.

neelyohara

paulmcg1 wrote: »

I would like to be able to look through any files relating to me. What files would there be? St Patricks Guild have a file presumably containing details of the adoption. Would this file contain feeding, medical records or any other information of time spent in a nursery? I just have a desire to fill in the gaps.

The file I received read like a book of events around that time.

Initial letters between my grandmother (who gave my mother up for adoption), a local bishop, Ms Cruice (the founder) discussing the pregnancy and advice on what she should do.

Then letters start to flood in from a number of involved parties. My grandfather, grandmother, great-grandmother, my adoptive grand parents, Nursing homes, bishops, the RAF!

It's not so much who was writing but what they were writing about. Even down to how my mother was nursing, what my great grandmother thought of my adoptive grandparents, how many times my g.grandmother and grandfather visited my mother, what they thought of her as she grew up (the seen her until is was about 2 or so) or the veiled threats to my grandmother that she had better make sure her payments for my mothers 'keep' should come through on time otherwise she may find my mother arriving on her doorstep (she was newly married at that time and these letters were going to the nursing home she stayed in during the pregnancy).

Then there are copies of certs. Some receipts and general records along those lines.

When I received it it was put into chronological order and a three page letter was put together buy the guild explaining the order of events.

The file was huge. A big thick binder full of letters.

Like anyone else I recommend you do your best to get your hands on it. It's unfortunate now that so much communication goes through via telephone and email and these little details are lost.

Good luck!

whitemoon

Hi all,

Am doing search at min for my husband who was born in 1967 and was in Temple Hill until he was almost 3 yrs old. Found his original birth cert v quickly in Irish Life two weeks ago and managed to trace his BM's birth cert i think on familysearch.org website and have ordered it online so hopefully will have it in a few days. Tyview has given advice on how to try to locate BM marriage cert so will try that next week. But even in doing all this the one thing that is missing is photos of my husband for the first 3 years of his life which really is a long time. We have four children and prob 4 million photos of them as babies and toddlers and with their pals. Who did he play with, who comforted him when he was upset or unwell???

Have recently made contact with St Patricks guild and they have been quick to acknowledge our letter but there are no photos or details like that on file. Not sure how this will pan out cos get the impression from the non identifying info that no one connected to his BM knew or knows anything about his existence.

Find it so hard to believe that some one can carry that huge secret around for 44 years !!

Anyway if anyone knows of photos of maybe similar aged people who would have been in Temple hill at that time perhaps you could let me know.

Thanks for 'listening'. He really finds it hard to talk about.