Irish Sea Tunnel (Rail Only)

JHMEG

We wouldn't need undersea tunnels if IE could timetable trains to leave after the ferry has arrived.

wildefalcon

A high speed line from Dublin to London, and on to Paris woud be feasable for NAMA money.

Especially if you included the Anglo Irish digout.


The Chinese are building a 50 km bridge across the south china sea at the moment, one of the most storm tossed seas in the world.

With the ever increasing price of hydrocarbon fuels an electrified rail link to the rest of Europe makes some sense, assuming a eurowide super electric grid and wind/hydro/wave/tidal electicity generation.

Obviously not feasible now, but with [new concept in Ireland] foresight and planning it would be in a few years time.

WildeFalcon

dowlingm

One thing about a fixed link would that you could integrate conduit for high speed voice and data (maybe via the service tunnel) - undersea cables have been cut, most recently in the Meditteranean. A bridge or enhanced ferry service might be disrupted for winds or fog, which a tunnel would not be subject to.

Jim Martin

There is currently serious consideration being given for HSR London - Scotland. With HSR Belfast - Dublin, a link across would be a logical extension and would be very competitive with air times and reliability. Also, there wouldn't be the vagaries of weather affecting ferries as has been proven with the Channel Tunnel.

dowlingm

Jim Martin wrote: »

There is currently serious consideration being given for HSR London - Scotland. With HSR Belfast - Dublin, a link across would be a logical extension and would be very competitive with air times and reliability. Also, there wouldn't be the vagaries of weather affecting ferries as has been proven with the Channel Tunnel.

Not really - what's the point in forcing a 300km/h link through the wilds of southwest Scotland and under the former munitions dumping grounds only to have the locals force people onto buses from Lisburn to Dundalk?

FlameoftheWest

Jim Martin wrote: »

HSR Belfast - Dublin, a link across would be a logical extension

Logical how?

oharach

dowlingm wrote: »

Not really - what's the point in forcing a 300km/h link through the wilds of southwest Scotland and under the former munitions dumping grounds only to have the locals force people onto buses from Lisburn to Dundalk?

HSR direct from Lisburn to Newry would act as an 'avoiding line' for Lurgan.

I can say it, I'm originally from there.

gjim

Jim Martin wrote: »

There is currently serious consideration being given for HSR London - Scotland. With HSR Belfast - Dublin, a link across would be a logical extension and would be very competitive with air times and reliability. Also, there wouldn't be the vagaries of weather affecting ferries as has been proven with the Channel Tunnel.

Very competitive? How do you calculate that? The route would be about 1200km from Dublin to London; that's six hours if you've any stops on the way.

Why is anyone even entertaining this tomfoolery?

Why am I even bothering to write this?

oharach

gjim wrote: »

Very competitive? How do you calculate that? The route would be about 1200km from Dublin to London; that's six hours if you've any stops on the way.

Why is anyone even entertaining this tomfoolery?

Why am I even bothering to write this?

He's right. And I really don't think Dublin-North Wales will work either – way too much track across a sparsely populated area, with little conceivable domestic benefit for the British. At least they could do Dublin as part of a bigger plan to link Cardiff and Swansea.

All pie in the sky, however...

dynamick

gjim wrote: »

Very competitive? How do you calculate that? The route would be about 1200km from Dublin to London; that's six hours if you've any stops on the way.

It's about 467km form London to Holyhead by road. Another 100km across the Irish Sea.

So 1200km is more than twice the real distance. The TGV Paris Marseille averages 261 kph. I don't think trains can do much more than 150kph in a tunnel.

It would be hours but it's still not a runner.

steamengine

Leave the HSR idea aside ! How about a single tunnel with a service tunnel for starters - from Bangor to Portpatrick, then along a new railway line to Dumfries then Carlisle and thus the rest of the Network.

Are we a modern European country or not ? Have we got it into our heads that ferries and aircraft are the only practical methods of crossing the sea, when already there are tunnels of these lengths elsewhere in the world ie Japan, Switzerland. Re - Beauforts Dyke - will give rise to a substantial gradient, but Swiss mountain railways have gradients of 1 in 25 approx handled by adhesion traction only locomotives ?

gjim

dynamick wrote: »

It's about 467km form London to Holyhead by road. Another 100km across the Irish Sea.

So 1200km is more than twice the real distance. The TGV Paris Marseille averages 261 kph. I don't think trains can do much more than 150kph in a tunnel.

It would be hours but it's still not a runner.

The guy I responded to was suggesting Dublin-Belfast-Stanraer HSR which would then link to the proposed Glasgow/Edinburgh-London HSR.

Southsider1

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

But that dosen't go as far as the mainland.

So you think the UK is the mainland? What does that make Ireland then? Some offshore enclave?????

Mint Sauce

JHMEG wrote: »

We wouldn't need undersea tunnels if IE could timetable trains to leave after the ferry has arrived.

and if it stopped somewhere near it

DWCommuter

Its okay folks. There's no need for a tunnel.

CIE are working on a teleportation device. They will bring it to planning stage. Unions will express discontent. Then the Government will establish a working group to examine the options. Following that, the TPA will be established taking control away from CIE. But the RPA will object. While all this is going on, West on Track will get 100,000 signatures on a petition demanding teleportation for the west. CIE will give up. The TPA will advance planning and implementation. The RPA will get bogged down on a luas to Lucan. Then under Transport 22, teleportation will begin between Castlebar and Kiltimagh under CIE control. But CIE will eventually scrap the teleportation device for the people of the west and only make it available to teleportspotters in aid of the venusian rock charity.

Yes?:D

SeanW

the depressing thing is I can actually imagine that happening in the year 2200 ...

Jim Martin

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

Logical how?

With 300 kph HSR, it's not the distance that counts so much as the time factor! I would have thought that with, say, 170 kph average speed, Dublin - London would be feasible in 4 hrs?

wildefalcon

This is all interesting, but don't forget we are going to spend 5 billion on an underground from Dail Eireann to the airport.

Now THAT's value for money!

WildeFalcon.

LordSutch

Southsider1 wrote: »

So you think the UK is the mainland? What does that make Ireland then? Some offshore enclave?????

I think that he thinks 'Britain' is the mainland, (in relation to NIs position) within the UK

Judgement Day

Southsider1 wrote: »

So you think the UK is the mainland? What does that make Ireland then? Some offshore enclave?????

A failed political entity? A rock in the Atlantic with 5 million alcoholics clinging to it?

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

A failed political entity? A rock in the Atlantic with 5 million alcoholics clinging to it?

hey! I resent that, I'm swaying gently on a raft made of empty cans next to it.

Clinging :rolleyes:

Capt'n Midnight

Sponge Bob wrote: »

you cannot have a tunnel between NI and Scotland because it is too DEEP

And there is also this minor consideration

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/4032629.stm

One of the main concerns is Beaufort's Dyke, a deep submarine trench in the Irish Sea between Scotland and Northern Ireland, used as a munitions dump since early last century.

The Ministry of Defence says more than one million tonnes of weapons were jettisoned there, though some are known to have been dumped short of the Dyke in shallow coastal waters.

Capt'n Midnight

Our population is too small to support a tunnel.
For passenger transport it would have to be very cheap to compete with the airlines and ferries.


People have talked about using a west coast port as a transatlantic container hub and then a Rosslare tunnel to Wales all to save one day for containers to the Continent. For the same sort of money you could connect Japan to Russia which would reduce container shipment to Europe by about a month.

Judgement Day

Couldn't they use some of the old munitions to help with blasting the tunnel? Not sure if the nerve gas would be much use though. All the same isn't the sea great - dump the city garbage/nuclear waste/munitions and it's out of sight out of mind. :rolleyes:

corktina

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Our population is too small to support a tunnel.
For passenger transport it would have to be very cheap to compete with the airlines and ferries.


People have talked about using a west coast port as a transatlantic container hub and then a Rosslare tunnel to Wales all to save one day for containers to the Continent. For the same sort of money you could connect Japan to Russia which would reduce container shipment to Europe by about a month.

its pure nonsense you are right.Why are we even discussing it?

Southsider1

Will ye all stop for feck sake. CIE can't run what they have at they moment. Opening lines that have been closed for years and closing operational lines to accommodate it. Running trains from the ferry terminal ten minutes before the friggin ferry arrives. You know? What's all that about? Then as someone else said by the time the plan it, get planning permission, funding, kissed the union's arses and the Govt have pissed about with it, global warming will have dried up the seas so you'll be able to walk or drive accross. Let's face it CIE are as big a waste of space as EVERY Politician in Leinster house from all parties. GOBSH1TES - the lot of them! We need someone like Michael O'Leary as a Dictator to run the country and FAST while we still have a country!!

steamengine

Southsider1 wrote: »

Will ye all stop for feck sake. CIE can't run what they have at they moment. Opening lines that have been closed for years and closing operational lines to accommodate it. Running trains from the ferry terminal ten minutes before the friggin ferry arrives. You know? What's all that about? Then as someone else said by the time the plan it, get planning permission, funding, kissed the union's arses and the Govt have pissed about with it, global warming will have dried up the seas so you'll be able to walk or drive accross. Let's face it CIE are as big a waste of space as EVERY Politician in Leinster house from all parties. GOBSH1TES - the lot of them! We need someone like Michael O'Leary as a Dictator to run the country and FAST while we still have a country!!

An Escape Tunnel then, perhaps ?

Capt'n Midnight

Southsider1 wrote: »

Will ye all stop for feck sake. CIE can't run what they have at they moment

CIE probably wouldn't get it anyway, would go out to some private contractor with yet another non-integrated ticketing system.

Capt'n Midnight

dynamick wrote: »

The TGV Paris Marseille averages 261 kph. I don't think trains can do much more than 150kph in a tunnel.

It would be hours but it's still not a runner.

Don't worry CIE have plans for some faster trains :pac:

Though you might be right about tunnels being a problem.

corktina

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Don't worry CIE have plans for some faster trains :pac:

Though you might be right about tunnels being a problem.

So THATS where 121 class no 134 went to!