P&D Advanced marathoning

roro2

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

When sub3wannabe refers to changing P&D programs, that represents both an increase in mileage and quality, as both increase with each program. Having said that, I don't think you can quantify the mileage requirements for a particular target on a general scale, as it is unique and different for every individual. Sub 2:50 for blockic may lie in a completely different approach, while the solution to cracking 2:50 for sub3wannabe might be in repeating exactly the same program, joining a club, or building middle-distance speed and carrying it through to the marathon.

In line with what I was saying. While general programmes serve a purpose and are a useful starting point, as you progress I think you have to use your own experiences and learnings to essentially come up with your own programme.

sub3wannabe

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

When sub3wannabe refers to changing P&D programs, that represents both an increase in mileage and quality, as both increase with each program. Having said that, I don't think you can quantify the mileage requirements for a particular target on a general scale, as it is unique and different for every individual. Sub 2:50 for blockic may lie in a completely different approach, while the solution to cracking 2:50 for sub3wannabe might be in repeating exactly the same program, joining a club, or building middle-distance speed and carrying it through to the marathon.

Krusty knows where im at and seems to have an understanding of the book im working off. I know it seems like im just looking for the magic formula and that I should really go on feel and stuff like that, it's just that im still very much a green horn when it comes to running, never been a member of any clubs etc so I fear If I just start doing what I think feels right I may stray off in the wrong direction. The books ive read like Lore of Running and Advanced Marathoning really enlightened me and the programmes give me that craved structure!

Anyway Krusty mate, you're a great asset to the forum and as a long term lurker have gained greatly from reading your posts. If you ran 2:50 off a peak 70mpw then that's good enough for me. I'm going to repeat Chapter 9 Advanced Marathoning programme with the required upping in intensity unless you think that isn't sufficient.

Trevster

Following the 55-70mpw program myself ahead of the Limerick Marathon

Just one question. The final week. The Race Week column. When it says '(6 days prerace)' afte the weekly mileage total.......what does that mean? I'm having a moment.

Itziger

Trevster wrote: »

Following the 55-70mpw program myself ahead of the Limerick Marathon

Just one question. The final week. The Race Week column. When it says '(6 days prerace)' afte the weekly mileage total.......what does that mean? I'm having a moment.

It means the total mileage you've done in the last week (the 6 days previous to your race) not counting the marathon itself. Feel free to add on the 26.2!

It kinda presumes the marathon is on a Sunday!

Trevster

Itziger wrote: »

It means the total mileage you've done in the last week (the 6 days previous to your race) not counting the marathon itself. Feel free to add on the 26.2!

It kinda presumes the marathon is on a Sunday!

Cheers. I was thinking the same. It could be phrased better however, as at first glance, I thought it meant run that total mileage, then take six days off before the race!

Krusty_Clown

Trevster wrote: »

Cheers. I was thinking the same. It could be phrased better however, as at first glance, I thought it meant run that total mileage, then take six days off before the race!

It's a little early for taper madness!

Trevster

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

It's a little early for taper madness![/QUOTE

Eat my shorts.

sideswipe

Looking for some opinions/advice about tune up races for P&D.

I had a tough 18 w/14@ mp yesterday and have my second of 3 tune ups next Saturday. I am considering the Tullamore Half but am a little worried about over reaching. The 18 week 55-70 mile plan I'm following recommends no higher than a 15k race.

So the question is- do most people think racing a half 4 weeks out from a goal marathon is a good/wise work out?

overpronator

sideswipe wrote: »

Looking for some opinions/advice about tune up races for P&D.

I had a tough 18 w/14@ mp yesterday and have my second of 3 tune ups next Saturday. I am considering the Tullamore Half but am a little worried about over reaching. The 18 week 55-70 mile plan I'm following recommends no higher than a 15k race.

So the question is- do most people think racing a half 4 weeks out from a goal marathon is a good/wise work out?

I've followed 55-70 and for me personally (everyone is different) a half 4 weeks out would be a little close for comfort. There have been plenty of threads in the past discussing the merits of racing in the buildup to a marathon, this is a good one.

sideswipe

overpronator wrote: »

I've followed 55-70 and for me personally (everyone is different) a half 4 weeks out would be a little close for comfort. There have been plenty of threads in the past discussing the merits of racing in the buildup to a marathon, this is a good one.

Cheers, that was the very thread I was looking for! I thought it was part of a P&D related thread which is why I couldn't find it with my search terms.

adrian522

Definitely drop the Sunday Long run if you run the Tullamore half.

yaboya1

I have followed both the 55m & 70m versions of this plan in the past and have always completed the long run the day after the HM. I think ger664 is another advocate of this IIRC. Getting those 17-20 milers in on tired legs is definitely beneficial imo (mentally & physically). I think the general opinion is to do them, but don't worry too much about the pace and ease off a little if necessary.

adrian522

The book recommends not doing them if you race longer than 15K but I guess it depends on the person. I've gotten a lot more conservative in what I'd consider doing over the last few weeks.

Half Marathon flat out takes enough out of me without adding on a long run the next day.

overpronator

adrian522 wrote: »

The book recommends not doing them if you race longer than 15K but I guess it depends on the person. I've gotten a lot more conservative in what I'd consider doing over the last few weeks.

Half Marathon flat out takes enough out of me without adding on a long run the next day.

Id be the same, I've done long runs the morning after 10ks on P&D but not after a half. I find I'm very prone to getting either sick or picking up niggles after a raced half if I do anything (at all really) in the day or two after.
Obviously Yaboya and Ger are better men than me and I need to HTFU:pac::pac:

ger664

overpronator wrote: »

Id be the same, I've done long runs the morning after 10ks on P&D but not after a half. I find I'm very prone to getting either sick or picking up niggles after a raced half if I do anything (at all really) in the day or two after.
Obviously Yaboya and Ger are better men than me and I need to HTFU:pac::pac:

Never did a half as a tuneup race but did do some 10 milers. Would agree that a rest day after a raced half would be more prudent. Did 16 miles day after Craughwell Ten this year but had to insert a couple of rest easy days afterwards as the legs where in bits.

RuMan

Just replaced the marathon paced Long Runs with 10 mile and Half Marathon races when i did it. In hindsight i probably should have taken even more time off after the half although all worked out ok in the end. Generic Plans are good guides but you need to pay attention to your body and not slavishly follow them. If you're in bits after a half last thing you should be doing is a long run the next day IMO. All depends on how you approach the half i suppose.

FBOT01

I am on my 3rd cycle of P&D 55-70m. I have never run a half as a tune race during any of the cycles. I did run the FD 10 last year as one of them and did the 17 miler the day after but went into the 17 miler happy to drop it or cut it back if necessary. It actually went fine and I had no issue.

One of the main ones for not doing a flat out half that close would be that its not in the plan. If you go off plan and run a longer than recommended tune-up race then you should be factoring in that the plan is not designed for what you are doing. The mini-taper and recovery in the plan are too short for the distance you have chosen to race so both need to be changed or you are increasing your injury risk. Now your choice of race distance has meant altering 2 weeks of a 18 week plan. Why do it if your main goal is the Marathon and you choose your plan to help you achieve this goal?

If you do decide to do it have a look at week 5 & 6 of the 18 week +85miles plan which covers a half marathon tune-up race and compare them to what your plan has either side of the half that you are planning on doing.