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Third-level fees have to come back
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Furious-Dave wrote: »I know
But I'm 30 and I'm also on back to education, and I went back to college because I was unemployed for a year and half and decided to change industry (as was the case when I went back to college the second time. That time I paid for myself though). I have no guilt about taking up a space in my college. 1/3 of the people on the course aren't cut out for it. They clearly thought "oh lets just do a security course". But the course includes legal studies and business admin, amongst other subjects.
A security course ? You must be talking about fas. I've never heard of a degree in security, but again I would have no interest as such. Well the only thing I can say to you is fair play to you. At least you are of the minority at your age who are there to learn, however, when graduated, a company will hire a 24 year old over a 50 year old on the same course. That was my point. Some people are passed the age of employability.0 -
Everyone may not want the same things. But everyone is equal. You really do belong in the US, where they don't treat everyone as equal. The european union has done wonders for this country and if were not for them, we would still be a backward catholic island were people were not treated as equals.
Equality is the way forward.
sorry i should have been clearer.as far as age, race, sex, religon, etc goes everyone is and should be equal
however
academically everyone is not equal and academically everyone does not belong in university
everyone should have the opportunity to go to university if they are good enough and if they want to this is were grants / scholarships / loans comes in
with the better off paying fees it opens more opportunity for the less advantaged to earn grants and scholarships so they can attend the current grant system is a joke(im a perfect example worked and supported myself for 3 years before going to university but because i hadnt turned 22 yet i wasnt entitled to any assistance as they still took my parents income into account)everyone should have the chance
absolutely and in the system i suggest they still would 0 -
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PeakOutput wrote: »sorry i should have been clearer.as far as age, race, sex, religon, etc goes everyone is and should be equal
however
academically everyone is not equal and academically everyone does not belong in university
everyone should have the opportunity to go to university if they are good enough and if they want to this is were grants / scholarships / loans comes in
with the better off paying fees it opens more opportunity for the less advantaged to earn grants and scholarships so they can attend the current grant system is a joke(im a perfect example worked and supported myself for 3 years before going to university but because i hadnt turned 22 yet i wasnt entitled to any assistance as they still took my parents income into account)
absolutely and in the system i suggest they still would
Yeah that is a joke man. I can understand where your coming from. That annoys me that someone in my college is getting a 6000 a year grant plus back to education - Total piss take. Just because s/he is over 23. Joke.!0 -
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A security course ? You must be talking about fas. I've never heard of a degree in security, but again I would have no interest as such. Well the only thing I can say to you is fair play to you. At least you are of the minority at your age who are there to learn, however, when graduated, a company will hire a 24 year old over a 50 year old on the same course. That was my point. Some people are passed the age of employability.
Nope not Fás. It's actually a level 6 course (basic degree being level 7) in security business management. Not a Uni nor an IT though.
Lol, I'm aware of the point you were making, I was just taking the piss
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Furious-Dave wrote: »Nope not Fás. It's actually a level 6 course (basic degree being level 7) in security business management. Not a Uni nor an IT though.
Lol, I'm aware of the point you were making, I was just taking the piss
Oh well level 6 isnt a walk in the park. So i understand where you are coming home - Well fair play for taking the piss, lightin up the humour in here with all the FG supporter's.
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I've just recovered from a fit of hysterical laughing. Do you honestly believe the State pays the prescribed fee??
I suppose; trusting a Fianna Fail administration was a bit naive of me, eh ninty9er?
But seriously, I genuinely wasn't aware that was the case. It really just adds another item of support towards abolishing free fees.0 -
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Flamed Diving wrote: »Hi anymore, my name is Flamed Diving. You may not have encountered me before, but, for me, simply making statements is never sufficient evidence for such a claim. Unless you are willing to back it up with data, then I will never take such positions seriously.
Thanks, and good luck!
Flamed Diving, why are you assuming i am especially concerned whether you take my posts seriousuly or not ?
I am sure if you make the effort on Goggle, you will be able to dig up the story of the unemployed married man who is getting in the region of € 38,000 from all his different benefits. However instead of being grateful, the story came to light, because he was complaining !
No doubt he is one of the ' Vulnerable' who would qualify for grants.0 -
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Flamed Diving, why are you assuming i am especially concerned whether you take my posts seriousuly or not ?
I am sure if you make the effort on Goggle, you will be able to dig up the story of the unemployed married man who is getting in the region of € 38,000 from all his different benefits. However instead of being grateful, the story came to light, because he was complaining !
No doubt he is one of the ' Vulnerable' who would qualify for grants.
1) This is another post of vacuous claims
2) Anecdotal evidence, while not useless, is nothing compared to actual data
You are not saying anything, no matter how strongly you believe you are. You should not be concerned with whether I take you seriously, but whether anything you say should be taken seriously by... anyone.0 -
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Oh my god, this is possibly the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.Flamed Diving wrote: »I have seen these threads a few times on Irish forums, and I always see this type of post.
...
As far as I see it, the only people who lose out are students from middle-class families, who won't be able to afford their own car and a J1 holiday every summer.
No, I was wrong, this is worse.John Lynch Ph.D wrote: »Terrible idea.
And why are people so for the idea of providing free education to students from only low income family's? again after again these students have proven to be the under performers in college, and that is FACT, the basic reality is they come from low income family's for a reason and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
...1% extra tax on earnings for those with degrees? Would near enough cover the costs.
At the same time I wouldn't really care if fees were brought back, as long as there's a proper loans system.
One point that hasn't been mentioned yet- current taxes! Graduates tend to earn more than non-graduates- €10,000 according to a previous post. This means they pay more taxes. We are already paying our own way! The universities are in debt and need some cash? Guess what. So does everyone these days.
I think the whole mentality of this country, particularly FF supporters is ridiculous. Lets pick on the people who can't do anything about it and let the wealthy away unhindered. For example until recently millionaire horse owners paid no tax, but nurses always have. Superstars like Bono that are reeling in the money pay their taxes in another country, but workers on minimum wage contribute? We can find money to bail out the banks, but not to help students? Why is it always the less well off in society, or the elderly who have to take the burden?
If fees had been around a few years ago, I wouldn't be in college now. I couldn't afford it. I love how people throw around the word loan like there's nothing to it. I already have a loan. And a part time job. But it's not enough. Not all of us are paid for out of daddys pocket. The full grant is €3,420. At the most a student can work 20 hours a week and even at that some can't manage it. Roughly €150 of wages. Now, these days that isn't even definite due to the lack of jobs. Most students that are trying to support themselves. How is it fair to saddle them with debt for the rest of their lives?
Increase the taxes for the ridiculous "administrative" positions, both public and private. Slash Cowen's salary- he's not worth more than Obama. Get rid of the Oireachtas.
The only students I think need to be looked at are the aforementioned "dossers" there for the college experience. I think that anyone who drops out during or after first year without a valid reason should have to pay back their maintenance grant.
Oh and that much money for building work is just silly- i'm sure NAMA have plently of vacant buildings lying around they'd only love to get rid of! 0 -
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mahamageehad wrote: »Oh my god, this is possibly the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.
No, I was wrong, this is worse.
One point that hasn't been mentioned yet- current taxes! Graduates tend to earn more than non-graduates- €10,000 according to a previous post. This means they pay more taxes. We are already paying our own way! The universities are in debt and need some cash? Guess what. So does everyone these days.
I think the whole mentality of this country, particularly FF supporters is ridiculous. Lets pick on the people who can't do anything about it and let the wealthy away unhindered. For example until recently millionaire horse owners paid no tax, but nurses always have. Superstars like Bono that are reeling in the money pay their taxes in another country, but workers on minimum wage contribute? We can find money to bail out the banks, but not to help students? Why is it always the less well off in society, or the elderly who have to take the burden?
If fees had been around a few years ago, I wouldn't be in college now. I couldn't afford it. I love how people throw around the word loan like there's nothing to it. I already have a loan. And a part time job. But it's not enough. Not all of us are paid for out of daddys pocket. The full grant is €3,420. At the most a student can work 20 hours a week and even at that some can't manage it. Roughly €150 of wages. Now, these days that isn't even definite due to the lack of jobs. Most students that are trying to support themselves. How is it fair to saddle them with debt for the rest of their lives?
Increase the taxes for the ridiculous "administrative" positions, both public and private. Slash Cowen's salary- he's not worth more than Obama. Get rid of the Oireachtas.
The only students I think need to be looked at are the aforementioned "dossers" there for the college experience. I think that anyone who drops out during or after first year without a valid reason should have to pay back their maintenance grant.
Oh and that much money for building work is just silly- i'm sure NAMA have plently of vacant buildings lying around they'd only love to get rid of!
Excellent contribution.
Why is it that billions upon billions have been paid out to the Agricultural sector and few if any question this, but free education , well partly free, which can benefit anyone who chooses to access it and which which yields an economic benefit, as the above poster points out, is regularlily questioned ?
Why don't we end all subsidies toi the betting and racing industry, abolish the tax exemption for the arts and farts brigade to help finance education ?
Why don't we pay our professors and lecturers similiar rates of pay as our neighbouring and much larger neighbour the UK ? The savings could be ploughed back to education. There is plenty of scope for making savings for re-investment.0 -
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mahamageehad wrote: »Oh my god, this is possibly the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.
And yet...mahamageehad wrote: »No, I was wrong, this is worse:
One point that hasn't been mentioned yet- current taxes! Graduates tend to earn more than non-graduates- €10,000 according to a previous post. This means they pay more taxes. We are already paying our own way! The universities are in debt and need some cash? Guess what. So does everyone these days.
I think the whole mentality of this country, particularly FF supporters is ridiculous. Lets pick on the people who can't do anything about it and let the wealthy away unhindered. For example until recently millionaire horse owners paid no tax, but nurses always have. Superstars like Bono that are reeling in the money pay their taxes in another country, but workers on minimum wage contribute? We can find money to bail out the banks, but not to help students? Why is it always the less well off in society, or the elderly who have to take the burden?
If fees had been around a few years ago, I wouldn't be in college now. I couldn't afford it. I love how people throw around the word loan like there's nothing to it. I already have a loan. And a part time job. But it's not enough. Not all of us are paid for out of daddys pocket. The full grant is €3,420. At the most a student can work 20 hours a week and even at that some can't manage it. Roughly €150 of wages. Now, these days that isn't even definite due to the lack of jobs. Most students that are trying to support themselves. How is it fair to saddle them with debt for the rest of their lives?
Increase the taxes for the ridiculous "administrative" positions, both public and private. Slash Cowen's salary- he's not worth more than Obama. Get rid of the Oireachtas.
The only students I think need to be looked at are the aforementioned "dossers" there for the college experience. I think that anyone who drops out during or after first year without a valid reason should have to pay back their maintenance grant.
Oh and that much money for building work is just silly- i'm sure NAMA have plently of vacant buildings lying around they'd only love to get rid of!
Couldn't have put it better myself.0 -
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