British Army

L.Jenkins

As a side note from the thread about the Brits recruiting in Limerick. Anyone with strong thoughts on joining or currently a serving member. Or would you all think it shameful for an Irish man to join.

minidazzler

This has been done to death in this forum TBH.

It will end up with some totally and utterly against it.

Some fully supportive. (Me included)

Some who don't really mind.

And probably 1 or 2 who say they should never come back they are traitors etc.


Me, I wanted to join...then I got my eyes tested for Laser treatment, where I found out not only am I ineligable for Laser correction, but my vision is bad enough that a military career is out until such a time as the technology can fix my prescription. (The optician gave an optimistic estimate of 5 years.)

L.Jenkins

I am considering it as a career possibility, both officer and enlisted. Not that I'd enjoy working for the Queen.

minidazzler

djhunter30 wrote: »

I am considering it as a career possibility, both officer and enlisted. Not that I'd enjoy working for the Queen.

Are you trolling or serious?

You realise you do have to take an oath to the crown and Great Britain should you join?

If you won't enjoy it then why would you do it?

L.Jenkins

Purely for the love of the military as a career. I could grit me teeth for a few years.

Local-womanizer

As minidazzler has stated,this has been done to death,and always leads to the same conclusion,utter maddness!

If you want to do it,do it.

Sure at the end of the day the oath is only what you make of it,you dont have to believe in what you are saying,we do it all the time anyway.

As for me,I dunno about joining. I wouldent tell anyone,other than close family and friends what I was doing,just purely for the fact better safe than sorry. But if I had no other options well then feck it,I would be away as it would put a wage in my pocket.

L.Jenkins

I know alot of lads who have joined and solely for the money and not for the pleasure of serving the queen. Its just a consideration and Im curious to know peoples opinion.

minidazzler

djhunter30 wrote: »

Purely for the love of the military as a career. I could grit me teeth for a few years.

djhunter30 wrote: »

I know alot of lads who have joined and solely for the money and not for the pleasure of serving the queen. Its just a consideration and Im curious to know peoples opinion.

Solely for the money? All of £16,000 a year or so?

They might have joined for a career, but noone joins for that money.

That said, I doubt there are many join to serve the Queen either. Save for those in the Household Cavalry.

To be honest though, I can't see people being too happy if they know you are "gritting your teeth" at the thought of "serving the Queen". Don't do it if you can't accept it for what it is like. WHy not go to the FFL? No queen there.

iceage

If I might be so bold as to use another Forums link. Might be of interest to the OP. http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=123990/start=0.html

You'll find the general concensus is that Irish lads are highly thought of and very welcome to the British Army and many do well. Young relative of mine went in recently.

amcalester

I was seriously thinking of applying to the RAF but for the roles I was interested in applicants had to be UK passport holders.

I was gutted.

I really don't see it as being much different to working for a British company.

cyrusdvirus

amcalester wrote: »

I was seriously thinking of applying to the RAF but for the roles I was interested in applicants had to be UK passport holders.

I was gutted.

I really don't see it as being much different to working for a British company.

If your parents were born before 1946 ( i think that's the year) they are entitled to an english passport, but they'd have to relinquish their Irish one. As a child of English citizens you'd be entitled to an english passport too then.

Morpheus

Interesting, my dad was born in 45

God shave the queen!!!

amcalester

gatecrash wrote: »

If your parents were born before 1946 ( i think that's the year) they are entitled to an english passport, but they'd have to relinquish their Irish one. As a child of English citizens you'd be entitled to an english passport too then.

From looking into it myself its 1949 but neither of my folks were. Shame.

For Queen and Country.

cyrusdvirus

Well as i said, it was an 'I think' year!!

SlabMurphy

minidazzler wrote: »

This has been done to death in this forum TBH.

I don't think myself that any of the fellas who post on here about joining the Brits have a fraction of a real interest in joining them. I mean if you were real about it, wouldn't you just Google say, - British army recruitment ?

( Not to worry, on the motorbike forum it the same - " I'm thinking of buying a bike "....." Is it dangerous " etc etc )

OS119

djhunter30 wrote: »

I am considering it as a career possibility, both officer and enlisted. Not that I'd enjoy working for the Queen.

i don't think, after a mere 16 years, i've ever met anyone who joined, or continues to serve, in order to work for the Queen.

certainly most of the people i've ever discussed it with had a some 'patriotism' as a part of why they joined, but it was almost always a heady mix of adventure, 'getting away' from a society they felt was either dross or not interested, getting a decent career with job and financial security, a notion to both test themselves and a desire to push themselves to be able to do things unimaginable to their contemparies and themselves.

they usually stay in becauce they enjoy their job (whether that be Infanteer, GeoTec, Gunner or even Duvet Technician), feel that its worth doing, and, probably above all, enjoy the cameraderie and cohesion which serving in any army provides.

not once, in all the delightful locations that the Army took me camping in, did i think about the Union Flag fluttering in the Breeze, or the benefits of a constitutional monarchy, or pretty much anything but my mates, the job, and the people i was responsible for.

and possibly how nice it would be to have a shower every 15 minutes...

iceage

Duvet Technician..how very 90's that is. The art of the bed block has been lost to the 16 tog duvet. Sorry to wander off topic.

Hugo Drax

djhunter30 wrote: »

As a side note from the thread about the Brits recruiting in Limerick. Anyone with strong thoughts on joining or currently a serving member. Or would you all think it shameful for an Irish man to join.

It's true, it's not something a consensus will ever be reached on.

Most find it reprehensible, a few Kevin Myers/Eoghan Harris types will commend you for serving Queen and Country.

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

It's true, it's not something a consensus will ever be reached on.

Most find it reprehensible, a few Kevin Myers/Eoghan Harris types will commend you for serving Queen and Country.

I wouldn't say most I'd say some.

And of the people who do disagree i'd say that some of them wouldn't be disagreeing purely because it's the BA, some of them would be disagreeing cos it's ANY foreign army..

Then again there will always be the few who think that all those who do join the British Armed Forces are traitors to 'the cause' etc......

The same ones who will shout and scream at the telly on a sunday afternoon watching 'their' team play in the English Premier league...

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

I wouldn't say most I'd say some.

And of the people who do disagree i'd say that some of them wouldn't be disagreeing purely because it's the BA, some of them would be disagreeing cos it's ANY foreign army..

Then again there will always be the few who think that all those who do join the British Armed Forces are traitors to 'the cause' etc......

The same ones who will shout and scream at the telly on a sunday afternoon watching 'their' team play in the English Premier league...

I'd say most.

Care to start a poll to prove who's right?

Also I don't think you have to be an uneducated barstool republican or premiership supporting type to find the idea of Irishmen serving in the English Army objectionable.

It's a simple question of morality, I would have thought.

JackieRyan

If you want to join up go for it ,my son joined the royal irish regiment last year ,and we are so proud of him,i do not care if people think this is not acceptable ,that is their right,as is his right to join the british army,he is now super fit,determined to get a good trade,well looked after and doing something he loves,and very very happy,so if you want to join up and it is really what you want go for it

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

I'd say most.

Care to start a poll to prove who's right?

Also I don't think you have to be an uneducated barstool republican or premiership supporting type to find the idea of Irishmen serving in the English Army objectionable.

It's a simple question of morality, I would have thought.

In my opinion if it was a question of morality, then it'd be an objection to Irishmen/Women serving in ANY foreign military, not specifically the BA.

I think that bringing the BA into it puts a slant on it that would bring in the aforementioned barstoolers.

If we started 2 polls, one on Would you find Irishmen/women serving in any foreign armed forces objectionable, and a second mentioning specifically the forces of our nearest neighbour, the second poll would attract a LOT more attention

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

In my opinion if it was a question of morality, then it'd be an objection to Irishmen/Women serving in ANY foreign military, not specifically the BA.

I think that bringing the BA into it puts a slant on it that would bring in the aforementioned barstoolers.

If we started 2 polls, one on Would you find Irishmen/women serving in any foreign armed forces objectionable, and a second mentioning specifically the forces of our nearest neighbour, the second poll would attract a LOT more attention

Actually it is specifically about the English Army, said army is the only army that has commited atrocities, human rights abuses and so on and so forth on this island in living memory.

Bloody Sunday ring any bells??

No other foreign army has done this.

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Actually it is specifically about the English Army, said army is the only army that has commited atrocities, human rights abuses and so on and so forth on this island in living memory.

Bloody Sunday ring any bells??

No other foreign army has done this.

I'd say that the Irish Republican Army carried out an atrocity or 2 in their time too, Eniskillen, Omagh, Warrington ring any bells??

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

I'd say that the Irish Republican Army carried out an atrocity or 2 in their time too, Eniskillen, Omagh, Warrington ring any bells??

What sort of response is that??

I'm not here to make apologies for them.

Any atrocities the IRA committed hardly legitimise the English Army's atrocities do they??

The IRA have nothing to do with this.

My point is that I think it's immoral for Irishmen to join an army that within living memory murdered civilians on this island.

You can't deflect that reality by saying the IRA murdered people too.

The IRA were/are an illegal organisation, the English Army is an official standing army of a modern state.

I think we have a right to hold them to account and to expect them to obey international law??

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

What sort of response is that??

I'm not here to make apologies for them.

Any atrocities the IRA committed hardly legitimise the English Army's atrocities do they??

The IRA have nothing to do with this.

My point is that I think it's immoral for Irishmen to join an army that within living memory murdered civilians on this island.

You can't deflect that reality by saying the IRA murdered people too.

The IRA were/are an illegal organisation, the English Army is an official standing army of a modern state.

I think we have a right to hold them to account and to expect them to obey international law??

I'm not here to make apologies for the British Army either, you made a point that they were the only Army to have committed atrocities on this Island. The IRA considered themselves to be a legitimate standing army and committed far worse atrocities..... And they would consider themselves to have carried out those acts in your name, and my name and everyone else in this country. THAT to me is reprehensible.

Bloody Sunday was a heinous act, there is no-one here denying that, but it would be interesting to hear what the Saville report has to say on the matter when it is eventually published.

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

I'm not here to make apologies for the British Army either, you made a point that they were the only Army to have committed atrocities on this Island. The IRA considered themselves to be a legitimate standing army and committed far worse atrocities..... And they would consider themselves to have carried out those acts in your name, and my name and everyone else in this country. THAT to me is reprehensible.

Bloody Sunday was a heinous act, there is no-one here denying that, but it would be interesting to hear what the Saville report has to say on the matter when it is eventually published.

The IRA were not of course a legitimate standing army.

I don't think they committed far worse atrocities than mowing down civilians with machine guns. They may have committed equally heinous acts but I don't think it gets much worse than that.

Murder is murder.

As for the Saville report, obviously we can't take seriously any report that is published by the English Government, talk about the fox investigating the hen house!!

The English Army committed the murders in Derry that day, to expect the English Government to produce an accurate report of the events is ludicrous.

I have no doubt the Saville report will make reference to "brave troops responding to enemy fire" and "unfortunate civilian casualties in the cross fire etc.", "unclear who shot who" etc etc.

I would only give credence to a report put together at the highest levels of the UN with no English or Irish influence.

Fratton Fred

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Actually it is specifically about the English Army, said army is the only army that has commited atrocities, human rights abuses and so on and so forth on this island in living memory.

Bloody Sunday ring any bells??

No other foreign army has done this.

look, if you are going to carry that chip around, at least get the name of te ****ing country right.

it is the British Army, as in Great Britain, as in the country next door. English is British, but British not always English, got it?

The soldiers that shot those people on Bloody Sunday could well have been Scottish or Welsh (Or even Irish for that matter). They were, however, British.

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

I'm not here to make apologies for the British Army either, you made a point that they were the only Army to have committed atrocities on this Island. The IRA considered themselves to be a legitimate standing army and committed far worse atrocities..... And they would consider themselves to have carried out those acts in your name, and my name and everyone else in this country. THAT to me is reprehensible.

Bloody Sunday was a heinous act, there is no-one here denying that, but it would be interesting to hear what the Saville report has to say on the matter when it is eventually published.

PS, I'm not here to attack the English Army, I've no doubt there are many decent honest hard working people serving in it and that they hold the highest motives.

Unfortunately it's track record in Ireland is, to say the least, atrocious....

cyrusdvirus

Either way we're going off topic here. Something that always happens with these threads, and something that i've (unfortunately) played my part in.

The question was asked. Hugo, you have your opinions, I may not agree with them but you are entitled to them.

I personally would have no issue with someone who wants to be a soldier joining the BA. Especially when there is a recruitment freeze here. OP, if you want to be a soldier, and feel that the BA is for you, then sign up.

I'd prefer for someone to be a soldier, even if it is in a different country, than to sit on a dole queue here waiting for the recruitment freeze to thaw

iceage

And we off.......You know for a minute there I thought there was going to be some sensible Q+A.

Looking back over it.......Naaaa.

Hugo Drax

Fratton Fred wrote: »

look, if you are going to carry that chip around, at least get the name of te ****ing country right.

it is the British Army, as in Great Britain, as in the country next door. English is British, but British not always English, got it?

The soldiers that shot those people on Bloody Sunday could well have been Scottish or Welsh (Or even Irish for that matter). They were, however, British.

I'm sorry Fred, there's no need for foul language, I have no chip, I thought we were having a reasoned debate on this.

Not being from England myself, I don't understand the distinctions you make....

Any Scots or Welsh I've ever met called themselves Scots or Welsh so I don't see you're point I'm afraid....

Which is obviosly getting you very irate.

This is an Irish forum, you have to try and look at it from an Irish perspective??

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

Either way we're going off topic here. Something that always happens with these threads, and something that i've (unfortunately) played my part in.

The question was asked. Hugo, you have your opinions, I may not agree with them but you are entitled to them.

I personally would have no issue with someone who wants to be a soldier joining the BA. Especially when there is a recruitment freeze here. OP, if you want to be a soldier, and feel that the BA is for you, then sign up.

I'd prefer for someone to be a soldier, even if it is in a different country, than to sit on a dole queue here waiting for the recruitment freeze to thaw

Whether you want to admit or not gatecrash I believe a large majority of Irish people think like I do....

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

I'm sorry Fred, there's no need for foul language, I have no chip, I thought we were having a reasoned debate on this.

Not being from England myself, I don't understand the distinctions you make....

Any Scots or Welsh I've ever met called themselves Scots or Welsh so I don't see you're point I'm afraid....

Which is obviosly getting you very irate.

This is an Irish forum, you have to try and look at it from an Irish perspective??

I think his point is that the British army is, and has always been the British army, not the English Army, or Welsh Army, Or Scottish Army

Hugo Drax

iceage wrote: »

And we off.......You know for a minute there I thought there was going to be some sensible Q+A.

Unfortunately it's always going to remain an emotive subject.

I believe a televised apology from the Queen would go a long way towards building bridges.

That said, obviously Anglo-Irish relations are excellent at the moment and that can only be a good thing.

But re this particular subject passions may tend to flair.

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

I think his point is that the British army is, and has always been the British army, not the English Army, or Welsh Army, Or Scottish Army

Fair enough, if you say so;)

who the fug

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Unfortunately it's always going to remain an emotive subject.

I believe a televised apology from the Queen would go a long way towards building bridges.

That said, obviously Anglo-Irish relations are excellent at the moment and that can only be a good thing.

But re this particular subject passions may tend to flair.

What has the Queen done now?

Hugo Drax

who the fug wrote: »

What has the Queen done now?

Read the thread!!

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Whether you want to admit or not gatecrash I believe a large majority of Irish people think like I do....

I wouldn't be so sure, there is a fairly large contingent of Irishmen and women serving in the British armed forces.

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Unfortunately it's always going to remain an emotive subject.

I believe a televised apology from the Queen would go a long way towards building bridges.

just getting back to this, regarding the Saville inquiry, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that there could be criminal proceedings as a result of the inquiry, and as head of state a public address by the Queen on the matter, would be seen as pejorative.

Actually i don't think that's the right word but hours of coding have turned my brain to mush!!!

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure, there is a fairly large contingent of Irishmen and women serving in the British armed forces.

I think you'll find that the majority of Irish peoples first allegience is to the Irish armed forces.

I'm not saying that a majority of Irish people would be rabidly, foaming at the mouth against young Irishmen joing foreign armies, including the English (British?) forces.

I'm just saying that if a majority were asked about it, they would probably disapprove.

I wonder why the English (British?) forces want to recruit foreign (Irish) soldiers, after all there's 60 million people over there, only a few million here, hardly a huge reservoir of manpower to tap.

Why do they bother?

Maybe the Irish Army should box clever and start recruitng over there or trying to....

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

just getting back to this, regarding the Saville inquiry, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that there could be criminal proceedings as a result of the inquiry, and as head of state a public address by the Queen on the matter, would be seen as pejorative.

Actually i don't think that's the right word but hours of coding have turned my brain to mush!!!

Can't see it happening I'm afraid.

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

I think you'll find that the majority of Irish peoples first allegience is to the Irish armed forces.

I'm not saying that a majority of Irish people would be rabidly, foaming at the mouth against young Irishmen joing foreign armies, including the English (British?) forces.

I'm just saying that if a majority were asked about it, they would probably disapprove.

I wonder why the English (British?) forces want to recruit foreign (Irish) soldiers, after all there's 60 million people over there, only a few million here, hardly a huge reservoir of manpower to tap.

Why do they bother?

Maybe the Irish Army should box clever and start recruitng over there or trying to....

Ok, speaking as a civilian, and someone who has a general interest in military, I'd say that the majority of people (whatever nationality, whatever Army/Navy/Airforce they join) would join up for a sense of adventure, to go to places you might not get the chance to visit, and a sense of camaraderie.

For lads who join the PDF the opportunities afforded them by joining a smaller force are considerably reduced, and the opportunities for advancement are reduced.

If you join a bigger force, by which i mean the armed forces of a country that has bases all over the place, you could conceivably get posted to anyone of them.
There is a side affect, in that occasionally you might get asked to put your life on the line, but that is something you would have known about before you joined up.

Why would someone from the UK join the PDF, when the opportunities they would be afforded over here would pale into comparison with the ones offered to them across the Irish Sea?

iceage

ROFL Hugo.Televised apology from the Queen, One is very amused.;)

Hugo Drax

iceage wrote: »

ROFL Hugo.Televised apology from the Queen, One is very amused.;)

I'm sure she'll consider it!:D

Hugo Drax

gatecrash wrote: »

Ok, speaking as a civilian, and someone who has a general interest in military, I'd say that the majority of people (whatever nationality, whatever Army/Navy/Airforce they join) would join up for a sense of adventure, to go to places you might not get the chance to visit, and a sense of camaraderie.

For lads who join the PDF the opportunities afforded them by joining a smaller force are considerably reduced, and the opportunities for advancement are reduced.

If you join a bigger force, by which i mean the armed forces of a country that has bases all over the place, you could conceivably get posted to anyone of them.
There is a side affect, in that occasionally you might get asked to put your life on the line, but that is something you would have known about before you joined up.

Why would someone from the UK join the PDF, when the opportunities they would be afforded over here would pale into comparison with the ones offered to them across the Irish Sea?

True, but you're not answering my question.

Why, with a population of 60 million is England/Britain so anxious to recruit Irishmen when we have such a small population??

Puzzling.

getz

Hugo Drax wrote: »

True, but you're not answering my question.

Why, with a population of 60 million is England/Britain so anxious to recruit Irishmen when we have such a small population??

Puzzling.

even my 10year old grandson knows the answer to that,any BA recuitment aimed at ireland,is for boosting the irish regiments

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

True, but you're not answering my question.

Why, with a population of 60 million is England/Britain so anxious to recruit Irishmen when we have such a small population??

Puzzling.

Cos they read Rudyard Kipling!!

Seriously though, i'd be thinking that the recruitment drives by the British Armed Forces wouldn't be particularly aimed at people from the Republic, but more for the Irish Regiments.

Hugo Drax

getz wrote: »

even my 10year old grandson knows the answer to that,any BA recuitment aimed at ireland,is for boosting the irish regiments

Why do they even have Irish regiments??

Tradition?

Can't let go of us?

The Irish army doesn't have English regiments!!

cyrusdvirus

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Why do they even have Irish regiments??

Tradition?

Can't let go of us?

The Irish army doesn't have English regiments!!

The Irish regiments are historical hangovers. They were established when Ireland was part of the UK, and were established to give a sense of identity to Irishmen serving at the time.

Now, it's tradition, it's that sense of identity, it's that feeling of camaraderie i mentioned earlier

getz

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Why do they even have Irish regiments??

Tradition?

Can't let go of us?

The Irish army doesn't have English regiments!!

thats up to the irish,canada has a irish regiment, the british irish regiments go back as far as 1684. a very long tradition of irish men fighting in the british army,