Teaching hospitals

straight_As

Hey all

I'm hoping for med next year and I'm just trying to finalise my preferences for the CAO. Atm, my first two choices are Trinity and UCD (I'd take anywhere really, but if I was to have the choice) and bar Trinity being maybe 10 minutes closer to my house, I'm undecided as to which place should be my first choice.

However, I'm wondering if ye could share just some general experiences you've had in your teaching hospitals? Obviously as med student, you'd spend the bones of at least three years learning in these hospitals, so it'd be great to just hear some general opinions on how you found them as students?

Thanks in advance

mcdermla

Hey I'm a nursing student in Trinity so I can answer this one.

Trinity is affiliated with St. James's Hospital in Kilmainham and AMNCH in Tallaght. There is a massive enterprise centre for the health science students (medicine, nursing, physio, etc.), on the concourse of St. James's, a 3 storey building with mock-up patient rooms and dummies to practice on. There is also a pretty decent medical library. It's not massive and it probably gets very full over busy exam periods, but then the impressive medical science building and the awesome Hamilton library on Trinity campus itself probably makes up for that.

I know less about UCD, only that it's affiliated with St Vincent's Hospital in Elm Park, which, if I'm being honest, is a much nicer hospital than St. Jame's. Firstly, it's laid out much better, and secondly, the class of patient is different too. St. James's is known for being in a notoriously rough area and, as someone who has witnessed hand-to-hand drug deals at the entrance of the hospital in the early hours, I can't say I disagree with this generalisation. St. Vincent's IS in a much safer area. That mightn't seem like a big deal but trust me, when you spend half your training in the same hosiptal, you don't want to have to worry about your safety on top of everything else.

But St. James's is a great hospital, and Trinity campus is a lot smaller and more accessible than UCD. Remember, once you start this course you'll need to sort out what routes you take to college and to the hospital. I know med students don't step on the wards for a couple of years but you will end up as an intern there someday, so figure out which hospital is more convenient for you. It's also worth considering the quality of student life in each college, so checking out their websites and looking beyond the medical course might help you make up your mind.

Before I forget, the medical course in Trinity has a 50% pass rate, the UCD one only has a 40% pass rate. This might sway you towards UCD but I know people who would argue that the higher pass rate has the better course.

Hope that helped!

mcdermla

I forgot to mention that once you're actually on a ward, it doesn't matter what hospital you're in, because the routine is the same everywhere. You'll be part of a gaggle of med students wearing white coats and carrying dictionaries (no doctors wear white coats, just the students) following around a doctor who'll take you on rounds. You'll be put on the spot and your medical knowledge will be tested.
Have you a strong stomach? You'll need one. You'll also need a poor sense of smell and a poker face to survive life on the wards. I really hope you're considering medicine for the right reasons because it is a horrifically time-consuming job and can involve a lot of dirty work. I've been told by a few interns that they wish they could go back and do something else; they thought they'd be rich and respected by the time they turned thirty, not so!

HQvhs

mcdermla wrote: »

I know med students don't step on the wards for a couple of years but you will end up as an intern there someday, so figure out which hospital is more convenient for you. It's also worth considering the quality of student life in each college, so checking out their websites and looking beyond the medical course might help you make up your mind.

Before I forget, the medical course in Trinity has a 50% pass rate, the UCD one only has a 40% pass rate. This might sway you towards UCD but I know people who would argue that the higher pass rate has the better course.

The intern place allocation system has been centralised so you can apply to any hospital as an intern. And AFAIK all med courses in country have a 50% pass mark, so this is fairly standard.

Susie-O-

The new allocation system probably has one main flaw - most people will probably still apply to the hospital(s) they trained in, so it remains to be seen whether it actually makes that big a difference to the majority of people!

OP - I'm a UCD student, have done most of my placement in Vincents, with a couple of weeks in The Mater, St. Michael's in Dun Laoghaire and Loughlinstown. I can obviously only speak about my own experiences, but I found all 4 hospitals to be brilliant! Most of the staff are really interested in teaching, and once they see you're interested, all sorts of opportunities to help with procedures, do a bit of research/auditing will fall into your lap! I find Vincent's to be particularly good for the surgery end of things, with the peripherals and Mater being great for medicine tutorials/teaching. Vincent's is a lovely working environment, and I haven't really had any bad experiences there at all - it's a big hospital, but not so big that you feel lost, or won't run into familiar faces several times a day!

The other thing I will say about UCD is that premed, shoudl you decide to do it, is a fantastic opportunity. You get to wind down from the big LC, bond with your class without having to start stressing about important subjects straight away, and get a mad first year of college like you'd get with most other degrees - you can still do that if you start in first med, but I know a lot of people who didn't because they found it quite stressful to deal with the continuous assessment, physiology, complicated parts of anatomy etc...just a thought, for if you do choose UCD!

sam34

mcdermla wrote: »

no doctors wear white coats, just the students!

completely inaccurate

most junior doctors wear white coats, and some consultants do too
the ones that dont are psych and paeds
surgeons will sometimes be seen on the wards in scrubs, but they wear white coats at times too

mcdermla

sam34 wrote: »

completely inaccurate

most junior doctors wear white coats, and some consultants do too
the ones that dont are psych and paeds
surgeons will sometimes be seen on the wards in scrubs, but they wear white coats at times too

Which hospital are you in? No doctor I've seen in St. James's wears a white coat

sam34

mcdermla wrote: »

Which hospital are you in? No doctor I've seen in St. James's wears a white coat

i've worked (as a doctor) in 9 different hospitals in this country and the vast majority of doctors wear white coats as i said above

mcdermla

Ok my mistake, but I have honestly never seen a doctor in Jame's wear a white coat, not in the past three years. And I overheard a consultant telling a group of med students that they have to keep their white coats on while on rounds so as not to be mistaken for doctors. I wouldn't have made the comment lightly, maybe there's some protocol for it that I'm not aware of

sam34

mcdermla wrote: »

Ok my mistake, but I have honestly never seen a doctor in Jame's wear a white coat, not in the past three years. And I overheard a consultant telling a group of med students that they have to keep their white coats on while on rounds so as not to be mistaken for doctors. I wouldn't have made the comment lightly, maybe there's some protocol for it that I'm not aware of

thats frankly bizarre

as a junior doctor particularly, you need a white coat, as you need to carry around so much stuff - that ubiquitous sticky white tape, cannulas, tourniquet, tendon hammer, xray cards, patient labels, notebook, yellow handbook, bnf etc etc etc

look at any intern - their white coat pockets will be bulging with paraphenalia

mcdermla

sam34 wrote: »

thats frankly bizarre

as a junior doctor particularly, you need a white coat, as you need to carry around so much stuff - that ubiquitous sticky white tape, cannulas, tourniquet, tendon hammer, xray cards, patient labels, notebook, yellow handbook, bnf etc etc etc

look at any intern - their white coat pockets will be bulging with paraphenalia

I've seen (knackered!) interns running around with backpacks or handbags, the med students have white coats, stethoscopes and medical dictionaries with them. It might have changed in James's in the last couple of years, I wasn't talking about the other hospitals

RobFowl

mcdermla wrote: »

I've seen (knackered!) interns running around with backpacks or handbags, the med students have white coats, stethoscopes and medical dictionaries with them. It might have changed in James's in the last couple of years, I wasn't talking about the other hospitals

I'm a GP now but as a junior doctor in all my jobs bar Paeds and psych had to wear a white coat.
As a patient in St James I saw Orthopods, MaxFax Surgeons and plastics who all wore white coats and that was recently !!

PS the pass mark in UCD has been 50% for as long a I can recall (and I started there in 1988).

Susie-O-

yup pass is 50% in UCD!

mcdermla

RobFowl wrote: »

I'm a GP now but as a junior doctor in all my jobs bar Paeds and psych had to wear a white coat.
As a patient in St James I saw Orthopods, MaxFax Surgeons and plastics who all wore white coats and that was recently !!

PS the pass mark in UCD has been 50% for as long a I can recall (and I started there in 1988).

I have two cousins who went to UCD for medicine and they both told me the pass rate was 40% that's what I was going on. Not claiming it to be fact I just assumed it was.

Were you in Anne Young/Colles?? Why would just those specialities need a white coat?! As I said above I'm just going by what I've seen and heard in the past three years, I'm not going back further than that.

straight_As

Guys, thanks for the replies, they've been really helpful

I'm still as unsure as ever, but it's good to get an insight from people who work in the hospitals as opposed to people who have been treated in the hospitals.

The only major Dublin hospitals I've been in long enough to have some real perspective on would be the Mater and Temple Street. I did some work experience in the Mater and tried to get some in other hospitals but failed unfortunately so I don't really know too much about them, aside from the aesthetics of the buildings.

I have another quick question if you guys wouldn't mind. How did ye find the teaching standards in the hospitals in terms of facilities and lectures?

Cheers again

yerayeah

In my experience (only one on the wards admittedly), a lot more doctors don't wear white coats than wear them. They're banned in a few hospitals as well. When I'm an intern I don't think I'll be wearing one anyway, think they're very annoying!!

Vorsprung

I didn't wear a white coat during intern year, but many other people did. I've now stopped wearing a tie. I'll be down to my underpants in about 5 years. I haven't heard about them being banned in Irish hospitals - I know this is the case in (at least some places in) the NHS.

Regarding hospitals, you'll likely be away from the "home" hospital for many of your rotations. In UCD, they've reorganised the clinical years so that you alternate between St Vincent's and the Mater, and you'd be spending more time in the peripheral hospitals, such as Mullingar, Loughlinstown etc - this is due to the increased number of students. At the end of the day, it's not going to matter a huge amount. Many people in my class wanted to get Vincent's but ended up going to the Mater (in the time when you would spend most of your time in one hospital) and they loved it. I still think the Merrion Inn beats the Findlater hands down every time though.

PeterMC

White coats are banned in Kerry General Hospital in Tralee...along with wrist watches and ties... infection control!

Susie-O-

Vorsprung wrote: »

I didn't wear a white coat during intern year, but many other people did. I've now stopped wearing a tie. I'll be down to my underpants in about 5 years. I haven't heard about them being banned in Irish hospitals - I know this is the case in (at least some places in) the NHS.

Regarding hospitals, you'll likely be away from the "home" hospital for many of your rotations. In UCD, they've reorganised the clinical years so that you alternate between St Vincent's and the Mater, and you'd be spending more time in the peripheral hospitals, such as Mullingar, Loughlinstown etc - this is due to the increased number of students. At the end of the day, it's not going to matter a huge amount. Many people in my class wanted to get Vincent's but ended up going to the Mater (in the time when you would spend most of your time in one hospital) and they loved it. I still think the Merrion Inn beats the Findlater hands down every time though.

You still pick one hospital to be in - you do three weeks in vincents and three in the mater at the end of third year to help you decide, then you choose which one you want and they try to allocate you based on preference. We've done 3 months med and 3 months surg placement, and of that, 7 weeks were spent out of vincent's...from what the year below tell me, it's gonna work the same for them!

Breezer

Susie-O- wrote: »

We've done 3 months med and 3 months surg placement, and of that, 7 weeks were spent out of vincent's...from what the year below tell me, it's gonna work the same for them!

Which is nearly a third of your time, plus we're not gonna be back there much for the next year. I'm still glad I spent the other 66% in Vincent's though, although I'm sure any major teaching hospital would've grown on me.

Anyway OP, I'd second everything Susie said in her first post.

I suppose if you particularly want to ultimately specialise in a particular area you could pick a university affiliated with a hospital that specialises in that area, e.g. UCD and Mater for cardiothoracic surgery, RCSI and Beaumont for neurosurgery. But it's not going to make any major difference to 99% of your time there. Plus most people haven't a clue what they want to do when they start (I've wanted to be a cardiologist, an oncologist, a plastic surgeon, a vascular surgeon, a cardiac surgeon, a psychiatrist, an anaesthetist, a GP and a paediatrician so far, some of those several times ).

Vorsprung wrote:

I still think the Merrion Inn beats the Findlater hands down every time though.

QFT - you can also make a cheesy medical acronym out of its name

p_holmz

mcdermla wrote: »

I have two cousins who went to UCD for medicine and they both told me the pass rate was 40% that's what I was going on. Not claiming it to be fact I just assumed it was.

You guys do know you are talking about two different things. right?:D

i.e. pass mark is different from pass rate.:D

sillymoo

I dont know if your putting RCSI down on your CAO but Il give you a quick run down of the teaching hospitals just in case.

The main hospital you will be based in in 2nd year/3rd year is Beaumont - you will have your lectures there and a very limited amount of patient exposure. It is a big busy hospital! The teaching is quite good but I find the private hospitals are better for teaching as they seem to have more time to teach. This is my experience though - cant comment for anyone else.

The other big teaching hospital for RCSI is James Connelly in Blanchardstown. Again another big hospital. The GEP students are there quite a bit. I have not been there but I hear its a lovely hospital to be in and teaching is quite good.

There are lots of other hospitals you rotate in. I have been to the Galway Clinic and the Bons in Glasnevin so far for surgery. Lovely hospitals and the teaching is second to none. Was in St Mary's for geriatrics and the teaching was brilliant. Cappagh for orthopaedics - teaching was not great but could have been the tutor we had as other groups had better experiences.

Other hospitals you will be rotated to are Waterford Regional, Killkenny (St Lukes), Our Lady's in Drogheda, Mullingar General, Cavan, Monaghan, Navan and then for obs/gyn the Routunda, Coombe. Paeds will be Temple St, Crumlin etc as well as peripheral hospitals (listed above). There may be others but cannot think of them right now. I have not been to these hospitals yet but have heard that they are grand.

One thing I have learned (in RCSI - may be different in other uni's) is that it does not matter where you live, you will be moved around a lot! And when you are in 4th/5th year you will be out of Dublin a lot.

If your thinking of putting Galway down on the CAO - Galway University Hospital is a lovely hospital. Im currently there doing a resarch project and I dont want to go back to Dublin! I have been treated so well down here! The teaching is brilliant - for example I was taking a history from a patient last week and a cardiology reg came in. He did not know me at all - just that I was a medical student, yet he went through the patients case with me and went through a cardio and resp exam with me! Now this guy was really busy but he took the opertunity to teach me.

If you have other questions fire ahead

liamodr

sillymoo wrote: »

I dont know if your putting RCSI down on your CAO but Il give you a quick run down of the teaching hospitals just in case.

The main hospital you will be based in in 2nd year/3rd year is Beaumont - you will have your lectures there and a very limited amount of patient exposure. It is a big busy hospital! The teaching is quite good but I find the private hospitals are better for teaching as they seem to have more time to teach. This is my experience though - cant comment for anyone else.

The other big teaching hospital for RCSI is James Connelly in Blanchardstown. Again another big hospital. The GEP students are there quite a bit. I have not been there but I hear its a lovely hospital to be in and teaching is quite good.

There are lots of other hospitals you rotate in. I have been to the Galway Clinic and the Bons in Glasnevin so far for surgery. Lovely hospitals and the teaching is second to none. Was in St Mary's for geriatrics and the teaching was brilliant. Cappagh for orthopaedics - teaching was not great but could have been the tutor we had as other groups had better experiences.

Other hospitals you will be rotated to are Waterford Regional, Killkenny (St Lukes), Our Lady's in Drogheda, Mullingar General, Cavan, Monaghan, Navan and then for obs/gyn the Routunda, Coombe. Paeds will be Temple St, Crumlin etc as well as peripheral hospitals (listed above). There may be others but cannot think of them right now. I have not been to these hospitals yet but have heard that they are grand.

One thing I have learned (in RCSI - may be different in other uni's) is that it does not matter where you live, you will be moved around a lot! And when you are in 4th/5th year you will be out of Dublin a lot.

If your thinking of putting Galway down on the CAO - Galway University Hospital is a lovely hospital. Im currently there doing a resarch project and I dont want to go back to Dublin! I have been treated so well down here! The teaching is brilliant - for example I was taking a history from a patient last week and a cardiology reg came in. He did not know me at all - just that I was a medical student, yet he went through the patients case with me and went through a cardio and resp exam with me! Now this guy was really busy but he took the opertunity to teach me.

If you have other questions fire ahead

Hi sillymoo. Currently choosing between UCD and RCSI GEM. I'm living in South Co Dublin and would prefer to do the RCSI course because of the smaller calss size but all the moving around for hospital placement seem prohibitively expensive. Does the cost of relocating to Muiilingar/Waterford General/etc. come out out of your own pocket? The fees are almost 60k alone for GEM so additional 10k per year in running a car and paying for short term digs does not appeal to me.

lonestargirl

liamodr wrote: »

Hi sillymoo. Currently choosing between UCD and RCSI GEM. I'm living in South Co Dublin and would prefer to do the RCSI course because of the smaller calss size but all the moving around for hospital placement seem prohibitively expensive. Does the cost of relocating to Muiilingar/Waterford General/etc. come out out of your own pocket? The fees are almost 60k alone for GEM so additional 10k per year in running a car and paying for short term digs does not appeal to me.

No the college pay for it. In Waterford RCSI have an apartment complex, it's down past that huge Tesco so only 5 mins walk from the hospital. In Mullingar/Cavan/Monaghan/Kilkenny etc you are put up in a B&B. They don't pay for weekends though just Mon-Fri, it is kind of a pain of you don't have a car.

sillymoo

lonestargirl wrote: »

No the college pay for it. In Waterford RCSI have an apartment complex, it's down past that huge Tesco so only 5 mins walk from the hospital. In Mullingar/Cavan/Monaghan/Kilkenny etc you are put up in a B&B. They don't pay for weekends though just Mon-Fri, it is kind of a pain of you don't have a car.

Exactly what lonestargirl said

Piste

liamodr wrote: »

Hi sillymoo. Currently choosing between UCD and RCSI GEM. I'm living in South Co Dublin and would prefer to do the RCSI course because of the smaller calss size but all the moving around for hospital placement seem prohibitively expensive. Does the cost of relocating to Muiilingar/Waterford General/etc. come out out of your own pocket? The fees are almost 60k alone for GEM so additional 10k per year in running a car and paying for short term digs does not appeal to me.

There's like 250 in the year in RCSI (unless is GEM you're thinking of doing?).

liamodr

Piste wrote: »

There's like 250 in the year in RCSI (unless is GEM you're thinking of doing?).

It's GEM I'm doing alright. Have a good enough GAMSAT score to get me an offer to my 1st choice (whichever that may be). Do RCSI merge the GEM and Undergrad Meds for the clinical part of the course? The driving factor behind my preference for RCSI is that I believed that a small class size would provide a better learning envioronment during rounds etc. If there are 300 of us I may as well go GEM in UCD because of proximity to where I live, better student services, etc.

sillymoo

liamodr wrote: »

It's GEM I'm doing alright. Have a good enough GAMSAT score to get me an offer to my 1st choice (whichever that may be). Do RCSI merge the GEM and Undergrad Meds for the clinical part of the course? The driving factor behind my preference for RCSI is that I believed that a small class size would provide a better learning envioronment during rounds etc. If there are 300 of us I may as well go GEM in UCD because of proximity to where I live, better student services, etc.

You will join the undergrad course for the clinical years (4th and 5th) but by that stage you wil all be split up into groups to do different rotations and will be in a small enough group.