Bison LK chains being broken by Dragon Punches

lazlo

One of the combos I try to use a lot with Bison is cr LK x 3 followed up by a scissors. I have it pretty well locked but I've noticed on occassion that some shotos, in particular Ryu and Ken are able to break the sequence after the first or second LK by making me eat a Dragon Punch. This happens more frequently if they first whiff a DP and I then start the sequence upon their landing. I know the DP has a few frames of invincibility when it begins, but how are they able to get a DP amidst an array of LKs?

bush

Cos they are mashing dp and you missed the link. They say you cannot miss the link, i punish you so hard.

lazlo

feckin DP mashing, there oughta be a law about it. Diminishing returns or something like that

blag

Yeah,basically what Bush-Hu said.If you're getting dp'd through low shorts on hit it's down to a missed link but on block it's not a safe block string and if they're mashing you'll get hit through it.

Just another way we Bison players are persecuted.:pac:

Kirby

"Super" Bison is a tough mofo. Easier links.

Azza used to miss these all the time. And It was good.

He doesn't anymore. It's not as good.

His new ultra is good too. It can hit from both sides and the recovery on it is excellent. Seen a few more randomers pick him online. Seems the changes they gave him made him a better a character overall. Expect to see a few more at this years EVO apart from Andre et al.

lazlo

Kirb, thats music to my ears -- its almost enough to make me walk out and buy an xbox with the game this very week. I'm just gonna pray that a windows port isnt too far away.

Azza

Bison's c.lk is a move with 3 frame start up and is only +1 on block, meaning that if a c.lk is blocked there is a 2 frame gap for your opponent to input a move. If he inputs a move with start up invincibility like a DP even if the move is slower to come out your c.lk it will get beat out. Also characters with 2 frame command grabs like Zangief and T.Hawk can beat you out.

If you find your opponent likes to mash DP out you can also bait them out to punish by stopping your string.

Bison does have a safe string. use c.lp x2 or x3, c.lk xx LK Scissors.

C.LP is +4 on block and is chain so its easy to ensure there is no gaps. Done right that string above leaves no gaps to mash through. It has less range than 4x c.lk though.

Kirby wrote:

Super" Bison is a tough mofo. Easier links.

I don't think Bison's c.lk links are easier in Super, I think they are the same. Big difference in the same match up is Bison gets in a lot easier thanks to improved Ex.Psycho. It allows him to get in to do them alot more.

bush

I hate getting into that starting and stopping against mashers. You end up spending half the match crouching and staring at each other after every blocked jab. Then just when you think he has stopped mashing you get hit with a dp.

Kirby

Azza wrote: »

Bison's c.lk is a move with 3 frame start up and is only +1 on block, meaning that if a c.lk is blocked there is a 2 frame gap for your opponent to input a move. If he inputs a move with start up invincibility like a DP even if the move is slower to come out your c.lk it will get beat out. Also characters with 2 frame command grabs like Zangief and T.Hawk can beat you out.

If you find your opponent likes to mash DP out you can also bait them out to punish by stopping your string.

Bison does have a safe string. use c.lp x2 or x3, c.lk xx LK Scissors.

C.LP is +4 on block and is chain so its easy to ensure there is no gaps. Done right that string above leaves no gaps to mash through. It has less than 4x c.lk though.



I don't think Bison's c.lk links are easier in Super, I think they are the same. Big difference in the same match up is Bison gets in a lot easier thanks to improved Ex.Psycho. It allows him to get in to do them alot more.

You didn't miss a single one though in about 20 matches. Maybe you were just having a good night. Dunno. But you would usually mess it up every couple of rounds in vanilla. It was noticable.

Also, was that his medium kick you were using in between loops? It seems to be better in super. Quick as hell.

I'm also going to have to play it a little longer to get sims new ultra down. Obviously the distancing is going to take some getting used to....but more noticable was the whiffing of the command. The amount of times I tried to get it out for a certain hit and I would teleport by mistake was soul crushing. I ended up losing several rounds due to that. There is just too much overlap in the moves when the shortcuts work how they do.

Ill get used to it after a day or two.

lazlo

I know its kinda veered off-topic a bit but has there been any change in the speed of Bisons warp?

Kirby

Not that I noticed. seems just as slow. But tbh he really doesn't need it. I'm no expert but there seems to be better wake up options for bison than teleport.

blag

Teleport is the same,which is only to be expected and I agree with Azza in that the low shorts link seems the same to me,although I never had many issues with hitting it consistently anyway.

Azza

Kirby wrote:

You didn't miss a single one though in about 20 matches. Maybe you were just having a good night. Dunno. But you would usually mess it up every couple of rounds in vanilla. It was noticable.

Your memory isn't great I missed a good few.

Bison changes so far.

Buffs
All Psycho Crushers up 10 damage.
LP PC does 120.
MP PC does 130.
HP PC does 140.
EX PC does 150.

EX.Psycho Crusher does 1 more point of chip damage, its up to 18.

Pyscho Crusher has an extended hitbox that can hit further back. The hitbox allows for ambigious cross up Psycho Crushers on waking opponents. Cross up HP Pyscho Crushers and close HP Psycho Crushers are safer on block than EX Pyscho Crusher. If its blocked close or on wake up the second hit on block hits much further back and causes significant push back leaving the characters almost a full screen away from each other. Very few characters can punish it on block. (Seth and Dhalsim are the only ones I know so far) Cross up LP and MP Pyscho Crushers are safer than perfoming a LP or MP Pyscho Crusher on a standing opponent but not as safe as the HP version. MP and HP Pyscho Crushers are still unsafe on being blocked when you a perform them at a distance while a LP or EX. Pyscho Crusher can be safe if they are blocked during the last of there active frames.


EX.Pyscho Crusher now goes through fireballs more consistently. It can be still be hit by a fireball during its start up but once fully extended it will always absorb fireballs. It can even absorb dual fireballs like Seth's EX.Sonic Boom or Dee Jays Ex.Slash.

Both his throws now do 10 extra damage. Up to 140.

C.HK is now focus cancable.

Ultra 2 does 420 damage max. Does 23 chip damage. Recovers fast but is still punishable.
Ultra 2 can be landed from jumping back MPx2.
Ultra 2 has full fireball invincibility.
It hits on both sides of Bison so it can cross up.
Distance is controllable.

Nerfs
S.HK down 20 to 100.
S.HP down 10 to 120.
CL.HP down 20 to 100.
C.HK down 10 to 100.
C.MK down 5 to 65.

LK Scissors down 10 to 90 (split 60:30 between the 2 hits) Chip damage down to 22 from 25.

Ultra 1 reduced by 48 to 492.

Chip damage on all normal Pyscho Crushers have been signficantly reduced.
LP PC use to do 54 chip damage.
MP PC use to do 60 chip damage.
HP PC use to do 64 chip damage.
All normal Pyscho Crushers now do 36 chip damage.

Ex.Headstomp reduced 20 in damage to 180. Chip damage reduced by 5 to 45.

Everything else is the same as far as I can tell.

Characters Specific Changes.

E.Honda

Buff
A reaction EX.Scissors Kick to a full screen EX.Headbutt now hits twice instead of just a single hit.

Nerf
Honda's normal Headbutt's now beat EX.Psycho Crusher clean instead of trading with it.

Ryu

Buff
His Shoryuken wins outright less than in SF 4, much more prone to trading with alot of moves.

Zangief

Buffs
Bison's C.HK beats Lariat clean.
Bison's C.LP and C.MP beat Lariat clean except on start up. However there is no hitbox to hit in Zangiefs mid section until the third rotation.
Bison's C.HP beats Lariat clean.
Only on start up of the Lariat can Zangief hit any of Bison's crouching moves.