Transport Budget Going to Greece

Sponge Bob

That is correct The Greeks are to be bailed out and Ireland is on the hook for its share which will be around €1.5bn Euros over 3 years .

That is the entire capital and ppp funding envelope in the transport budget....gone to a good cause called Greece.

The G word will be the next generation excuse from the FFers like Lehmans was blamed for the fact that our bankers were crooked.

Frankly I cannot see anything like Metro North or Interconnector going ahead during that time , thanks Greece

Cookie_Monster

It's alright though, the EU will have to bail us out too in a few months, then we can sneak money back into transport.

murphaph

We will have the hand out soon enough if we don't get our public sector spending down to realistic levels asap. We are not Germany and have no right to cast aspertions on the Greeks when we've been behaving in a similar way.

Sponge Bob

murphaph wrote: »

We've been behaving in a similar way.

Our private sector certainly has but not our public sector including social spending which did not run at a deficit until recent years.

Most Greek debt is public and the global pandemonium is being caused by their cooking the books all the time and making up official statistics and getting caught at it regularly.

murphaph

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Our private sector certainly has but not our public sector.

Most Greek debt is public and the global pandemonium is being caused by their cooking the books all the time and making up official statistics.

We are overpaying our public sector grossly compared to other public sectors and compared to our own private sector (up to 30% premium AT LOWER GRADES according to the ESRI). We are also paying out astonishingly high rates of dole and state pensions compared to Germany and the UK etc. All this needs to be seriously cut in line with our new taxation levels.

The Greeks cooked the books, we just created a false economy, housing based bubble and now it's burst, 20 bn a year is "missing". Not exactly the same but fiscal discipline went out the window in 2001 in Ireland, probably even before when Benchmarking was first proposed.

Sponge Bob

That is irrelevant, strictly speaking. The IMF will be along later this year and will deal with that issue for us seeing as we bottled it so far. Portugal will set down some markers for us to follow in the interim. Now leave the public sector out of this for now please.

Irrespective of our CURRENT spending we are about to promise our entire road and rail capital building budget to Greece for the next 3 years. AND it will be done without a vote in the Dáil. Brian Lenihan will annouce it over the next week.

irishconvert

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That is irrelevant, strictly speaking. The IMF will be along later this year and will deal with that issue for us seeing as we bottled it so far. Portugal will set down some markers for us to follow in the interim. Now leave the public sector out of this for now please.

Irrespective of our CURRENT spending we are about to promise our entire road and rail capital building budget to Greece for the next 3 years. AND it will be done without a vote in the Dáil. Brian Lenihan will annouce it over the next week.

We have taken enough money from the EU. Why do you object to giving some back when one of the other countries are in trouble. If we need a bail out are you going to refuse it if Germany offers to help us?

Sponge Bob

Did I object ???? Where ???

Tabnabs

This is a loan, not a freebie, and we will actually make more back than our initial loan to the Greeks. The timing may not be ideal, but we are part of the EU and have certain obligations like every other country.

Boskowski

Dyflin wrote: »

...and we will actually make more back than our initial loan...

Where did I hear this before?

FlameoftheWest

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That is correct The Greeks are to be bailed out and Ireland is on the hook for its share which will be around €1.5bn Euros over 3 years .

The fact is the Greeks borrow money to save their country. We borrow money so the world's most overpaid and underworked public sector can buy more holiday homes in Greece.

schemingbohemia

This is a stupid and pointless thread. It has nothing to do whatsoever with commuting and transport - you might as well have the same thread in health/education whatever.

Victor

Where is the commitment beyond the first €500m?

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Irrespective of our CURRENT spending we are about to promise our entire road and rail capital building budget to Greece for the next 3 years. AND it will be done without a vote in the Dáil. Brian Lenihan will annouce it over the next week.

Are we only going to spend €1.5bn on transport capital projects over the next 3 years?

I don't really see this as a C&T thread, unless you can prove the Department of Transport is paying for this.

cleveland browne

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

The fact is the Greeks borrow money to save their country. We borrow money so the world's most overpaid and underworked public sector can buy more holiday homes in Greece.

Just because you keep repeating a lie does not make it any less of a lie.

http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2010/03/with-industrial-action-in-the-public-sector-ramping-up-a-couple-of-notches-it-is-worth-revisiting-a-couple-of-issues-in-rela.html

In 2007 Ireland public administration wages costs were 10th of the EU 15 and over €2 below the EU average. That is before the wage cuts etc

It is amazing the same people keep popping up with this tripe any chance they get how about instead of just peddling ****e you back it up with some evidence to support your claim.

Sponge Bob

Victor wrote: »

Where is the commitment beyond the first €500m?

The IMF trebled the package yesterday in both size and duration. Our contribution is determined pro rata our shareholding in the ECB which is around 1.5%.

Are we only going to spend €1.5bn on transport capital projects over the next 3 years?

Other than maintenance and including PPP outpayments, yes. Had you not noticed the pipeline is empty and that no roads will be completed in 2011 except the Castleisland Bypass and none in 2012 either??? Only the M50 PPP payments remain to be funded in each of the next 3 years ....sub €100m a year.

The pipeline was empty before the Greek situation erupted. It had been cleared.

strassenwo!f

No, Bob, I'm sure you've got this wrong.

The transport spend for the whole T21 program was ring-fenced. We were told that time and again.

It is money from other areas that is going to Greece.

It must be.

'Cos the T21 money was ring-fenced.

DWCommuter

strassenwo!f wrote: »

No, Bob, I'm sure you've got this wrong.

The transport spend for the whole T21 program was ring-fenced. We were told that time and again.

It is money from other areas that is going to Greece.

It must be.

'Cos the T21 money was ring-fenced.

At last!:D

What was ringfenced was "predicted money" based on the price of an apartment in Moate.

Carawaystick

cleveland browne wrote: »

In 2007 Ireland public administration wages costs were 10th of the EU 15 and over €2 below the EU average. That is before the wage cuts etc

It is amazing the same people keep popping up with this tripe any chance they get how about instead of just peddling ****e you back it up with some evidence to support your claim.

Wages cost per hour means very little if the wages are paid to gutless types who will not do the work they are being paid for but will not have the courage of their convictions to actually go on strike. -- like the librarians in Kevin St, the foreign affairs people not issuing passports or the hse people not doing their jobs.

dynamick

The title of this thread is misleading: 'Transport budget going to Greece'

The transport budget is not going to Greece.

The capital budget for Ireland as agreed and revised with the EU at the last budget is as follows:
2010 6.5bn
2011 5.5bn
2012 5.5bn
2013 5.5bn
2014 5.5bn
http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Documents/Final%20SPU.pdf

The money paid to Greece could come out of the capital budget or it could come from further cutbacks to current spending, or from increased borrowing or from the NPRF or from a combination of these. Let's say it is 500mn/year and let's say it does come entirely from the capital budget, then the capital budget would be decreased by 9%, with a knock on effect for transport. But that's a lot of ifs.

My impression of sponge bob is that he has a little information, maybe his mam works in the civil service and he reads her briefcase. But he has very poor ability to analyse any information he gets.

If money is lent to Greece, it will be at a higher rate than we have paid to borrow it.
In contrast we will borrow about 20bn this year to fund current overspending that we will never see a return on.

Greece's socialist government will have to agree to a savage austerity package dictated by the IMF in order to get approved including 15% pay cuts for PS workers and a 3 year pay freeze, redundancies, privatisations and so on. This represents a loss of sovereignty on their part and really points the way for what happens when a country chooses to become dependent on the kindness of the lenders of last resort.

We need to get this thread back onto transport. So here's a story about public transport in Greece:

Reuters wrote:

Greek transport on strike as austerity anger grows
Harry Papachristou and Ingrid Melander
ATHENS
(Reuters) - Striking public transport workers halted Athens's buses, trams and metro for six hours on Tuesday in protest against the austerity measures being introduced to tackle Greece's debt crisis...
more

Sponge Bob

dynamick wrote: »

The capital budget for Ireland as agreed and revised with the EU at the last budget is as follows:
2010 6.5bn
2011 5.5bn
2012 5.5bn
2013 5.5bn
2014 5.5bn
http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Documents/Final%20SPU.pdf

That is all of the capital expenditure. Of the ( correct) projected €6.5bn in 2010 some €2.1bn goes to Transport alone in 2010 but that would be to finish off current capital projects like KRP M7 M8 M3 M18 for starters. No big projects will be completed in 2011, we started nothing off for years save maybe Gort Crusheen in 2008

I explained at some length ( earlier this year not around budget time) in the Infrastructure forum that there was no way anything like a €2.1bn capital budget for 2010 would be spent in Transport. The cutbacks were ongoing. Since then a possible project on the Cork Ring Road went to tender....but even then

It looked like it was coming in nearer €1bn for 2010 even with all those roads being finished. There is no evidence....such as signed contracts... thet it will exceed €500m in 2011.

Lenihan is in Brussels discussing the Greek bailout right now. We will soon know.

dynamick

Last month, the DoF released expected expenditure figures for each month of 2010 broken down by department and capital/current split.

This is showing a projected 1.76bn capital spend on transport projects
http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/public%20expenditure/2010/expprofile.pdf

For the 1st quarter we are only 5% behind target for transport capital spending.
http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/exchequerstatements/2010/End-March_2010_Voted_Expenditure_Analysis.pdf

Now. maybe you know something other than the published data. Are you expecting planned capital transport expenditure on certain projects not to go ahead this year? And if so why would the DoF publish inaccurate figures in March? And why are we on target for budget expenditure this year to date?

Are you really expecting that capital spending on transport projects will fall 700 million short of published target?

(New data to come out next week from DoF for April)

Chris_5339762

Sponge Bob wrote: »

No big projects will be completed in 2011

Ah you never know Limerick - Birdhill might open in 2011

Victor

Feel free to start a thread about the Irish transport budget. Take Greece elsewhere.

Thread closed.