10/22 Stock and Barrel Mods

nail

Hi

I have a 10/22 and I am considering doing a bit of work to improve it. Its used mainly for gallery rifle.

So initially I am changing the stock and barrel. I've got a stock in mind its the Tac Driver Silhouette on http://rifle-stocks.com/.

Regarding the barrel, what is the shortest lenght barrel I can put on the 10/22 while keeping it legal? And what barrel would you recommend, considering that particular stock is for a 0.920" OD barrel?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

Scalachi

Hi,

Can i point out that a lot of gallery rifle competitions are shot from 25 and 50 metres, and use both shoulders, the stock you are looking at has been designed for shooting right shoulder only, and will be very difficult or even painful to shoot left handed, at this stage i have gone through 4 stocks to get one I like.....

With regards to barrel length, if you have a look at the NASRPC website under the gallery rifle page, the NRA UK Gallery Rifle and Pistol rule book is there, but i dont remember reading anything specific on length of barrel.

regards,

DB

nail

Good point on the ambidextrous use. I'll have to find a stock similar to the silhouette with check piece left and right.

gunhappy_ie

nail wrote: »

Hi

I have a 10/22 and I am considering doing a bit of work to improve it. Its used mainly for gallery rifle.

So initially I am changing the stock and barrel. I've got a stock in mind its the Tac Driver Silhouette on http://rifle-stocks.com/.

Regarding the barrel, what is the shortest lenght barrel I can put on the 10/22 while keeping it legal? And what barrel would you recommend, considering that particular stock is for a 0.920" OD barrel?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

unfortunalty legally the only person who can modify your rifle is a gundealer

depending what you require the rifle for will determine what barrel to get and only you can answer that.

legally the rifle barrel can be a min of 30 cm but the overall length of the rifle has to be 60 cm and shorter and you will have to licence the rifle as short arm...which is a pistol !

taken from the bible:

FIREARMS (RESTRICTED FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION) ORDER

2008

“short firearms” means firearms either with a barrel not longer than 30 centimetres
or whose overall length (including the length of any detachable

component) does not exceed 60 centimetres;


“long firearms” means firearms other than short firearms;


I have yet to see any firearms laws to contradict that.

OldEyes

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

unfortunalty legally the only person who can modify your rifle is a gundealer

Where are you getting this from?

gunhappy_ie

OldEyes wrote: »

Where are you getting this from?

its actually what defines what a dealer is and can do...

words to the effect of "manufacture, repair and modify"

ive had lenghty discussions with the DOj on this ... ill post the atricle when i find it.

here it is......

Firearms act 1925 section 1,Definitions and interpretation.


the expression “firearms dealer” means a person who, by way of trade or business, manufactures, sells, lets on hire, repairs, tests, proves, purchases, or otherwise deals in firearms or ammunition;

OldEyes

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

its actually what defines what a dealer is and can do...

words to the effect of "manufacture, repair and modify"

ive had lenghty discussions with the DOj on this ... ill post the atricle when i find it.

Please do, you learn something new everyday.

Would replacing the rifle's stock constitute "modifying" the rifle or does it have to be a "component part" before you have made a modification?

OldEyes

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Firearms act 1925 section 1,Definitions and interpretation.


the expression “firearms dealer” means a person who, by way of trade or business, manufactures, sells, lets on hire, repairs, tests, proves, purchases, or otherwise deals in firearms or ammunition;

Is this the key phrase I wonder? If so, it would seem to leave open a person modifying their own firearm.

gunhappy_ie

OldEyes wrote: »

Please do, you learn something new everyday.

Would replacing the rifle's stock constitute "modifying" the rifle or does it have to be a "component part" before you have made a modification?

Unfortunatly repair and modify can be classed as the same thing !

technically... putting a aftermarket trigger on your rifle ... NO NO !

sfakiaman

I thought shortening a barrel was the only illegal modification an owner could do provided that the end result didn't change the status of the firearm. Of course if one were to fit a pistol grip stock to one's single shot .22 target rifle one could expect to face the full rigours of the law :rolleyes:.

gunhappy_ie

sfakiaman wrote: »

I thought shortening a barrel was the only illegal modification an owner could do provided that the end result didn't change the status of the firearm. Of course if one were to fit a pistol grip stock to one's single shot .22 target rifle one could expect to face the full rigours of the law :rolleyes:.

unfortunatly this is not the case !

OldEyes

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Firearms act 1925 section 1,Definitions and interpretation.


the expression “firearms dealer” means a person who, by way of trade or business, manufactures, sells, lets on hire, repairs, tests, proves, purchases, or otherwise deals in firearms or ammunition;

The above seems to be dealing with the definition of what a firearm dealer is, as opposed to what a private firearm owner can or can't do to his firearm.

Darr

well I would think that a large % of FA owners are now breaking the law .eg you added a set of scope rings and scope .. basicly ANY change from how it was the day you got it from the gunsmith ...so painting is another one .. as its mod the apperance ..

ffs who comes up with this rubbish, and do they live on this planet at all .

OldEyes wrote: »

The above seems to be dealing with the definition of what a firearm dealer is, as opposed to what a private firearm owner can or can't do to his firearm.

agree there .. there are some FA dealers that I wouldnt let near a lump of steel with a screwdriver never mind my FA .. a dealer is not a gunsmith so why would they know better then the FA owner .

Dar

gunhappy_ie

old eyes ..... Ive seen nothing so far as to what a private owner can and cant do but i have been on the phone to the DOJ along with several emails telling me that i as a private owner cannot modify my rifle.

by all means if you can contradict that with more legislation then let me know because ull save me a fortune and about a year of my life

Darr

where does it say that ONLY a fa dealer may repair/mod etc ...

gunhappy_ie

Darr... i think its actually a good idea from the point of view that not everyone should be allowed build firearms. not that im saying that dealers should be given the privilage either as most dont have any technical background.

but fitting scopes is allowed . again its up to the garda at the end of the day !

OldEyes

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

old eyes ..... Ive seen nothing so far as to what a private owner can and cant do but i have been on the phone to the DOJ along with several emails telling me that i as a private owner cannot modify my rifle.

by all means if you can contradict that with more legislation then let me know because ull save me a fortune and about a year of my life

I know where you're coming form. If you've spoken to the DOJ then you have it from the horse’s mouth. The only thing I'd say is that the horse’s mouth has been spouting alot of rubbish lately. We supposedly still live in a free country where if something isn’t specifically stated under law as "Illegal", then you are free to carry on.

If it is specially mentioned under law as being illegal to modify your own firearm, so be it. I have not come across it myself.

Darr

I would agree that cetain mods can be dangerous , but if you trust some one to have a FA they should be trust worthy enough to do maintance/updates to there FA .. all additions I have seen say not to do it if your not compitent enough to do it .

consider the 10/22 in this case has mostly drop in parts its simple to change both the trigger/stock/barrel etc etc ..


"but fitting scopes is allowed . again its up to the garda at the end of the day ! "

again how do we know this , what is allowed whats not .. is there a list ..

if you know where is states in the SI/Bill where only mods/repairs can be performed by a FA dealer do let me know as would be intresting in what it says , cheers

Im wondering if I get a misfire , should i put the FA in the boot and drive to the nearest dealer as that is probably a repair ..course driving around with a misfire in the boot might possible be dangerous but not breaking the rules !!!!

More mindless rules and regs .. sheez

OldEyes

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

...its up to the garda at the end of the day !

This is my point, its not. It's up to the law.

gunhappy_ie

FIREARMS ACT 1925:

Restrictions on the manufacture and sale of firearms

10. (1) On and after the commencement of this Act it shall not be lawful
for any person to manufacture, sell, repair, test, or prove, or expose for
sale, or have in his possession for sale, repair, test, or proof, by way of
trade or business, any firearm or ammunition unless such person is
registered in the register of firearms dealers.

OldEyes

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

FIREARMS ACT 1925:

Restrictions on the manufacture and sale of firearms

10. (1) On and after the commencement of this Act it shall not be lawful
for any person to manufacture, sell, repair, test, or prove, or expose for
sale, or have in his possession for sale, repair, test, or proof, by way of
trade or business, any firearm or ammunition unless such person is
registered in the register of firearms dealers.

This seems to be referring to someone attempting to conduct a business, not someone repairing or modifying their own firearm.

gunhappy_ie

OldEyes wrote: »

This is my point, its not. It's up to the law.

there are guns out there that have stocks changed,triggeres replaced, sights replaced, buttplates added, bedded...... the list goes on ....

that is up to the gardai as most either wont know or care as long as there not doing anything .... too illegal haha

And in fairness to the DOJ Firearms section ... any time ive rang them they have not only been helpfully in every way possible but have given an impartial view on what i was asking but were only concerned that what i was doing was within the confinds of the law

Darr

phew (puts back on stock/trigger/sights/butt pad/cheek rest/sling hook/sling/buffer/ejector on rifle )

well that makes sense ... well somewhat


Think old eyes hit it on the head there , seems to be trade

Dar

gunhappy_ie

old eyes .... interpeting further .... so your saying that you can do it .. but you just can never sell that firearm again :P:P:P

Darr

gunhappy_ie your correct but only if your doing it as a business .. then you would have to be a registered dealer ...

I wouldnt think personal sales would count ..

btw why did you ask the DOJ if you could mod your rifle , if you dont mind the question . just curious as to what made you as no one else I know has .

Ignore that if you dont wish to answer
Dar

OldEyes

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

old eyes .... interpeting further .... so your saying that you can do it .. but you just can never sell that firearm again :P:P:P

You sure you're not a lawyer?;)

I would take from that act that it's the "intent" as opposed to the hardware itself that is the key.

e.g.;

1: You modify your own firearm for your own use - OK. (As long as in doing so you don't create a "restricted or prohibited" firearm.)
2: You later sell your modified, but legal firearm - OK.
3: You wish to offer your "firearm modifying services" to others as a business either by modifying their firearm or acquiring a firearm and modifying it for the purposes of selling it on - NO. Unless you are an RFD.

That's how I'd look at it, I could be wrong.

gunhappy_ie

Darr wrote: »

gunhappy_ie your correct but only if your doing it as a business .. then you would have to be a registered dealer ...

btw why did you ask the DOJ if you could mod your rifle , if you dont mind the question . just curious as to what made you as no one else I know has .

Ignore that if you dont wish to answer
Dar

you can sell your firearm yourself that is for sure.
I wouldnt think personal sales would count perhaps since the 1925 act some more legislation has come about allowing personal sales ..as for anything else on act 1925 replace , with or.... theres your answer.... its all an offence. thats my 2cents on it anyway....

what was i asking them for .. lol..evil lol :P just clarification of the law before i start buying/building

OldEyes wrote: »

You sure you're not a lawyer?;)

I would take from that act that it's the "intent" as opposed to the hardware itself that is the key.

e.g.;

1: You modify your own firearm for your own use - OK. (As long as in doing so you don't create a "restricted or prohibited" firearm.)
2: You later sell your modified, but legal firearm - OK.
3: You wish to offer your "firearm modifying services" to others as a business either by modifying their firearm or acquiring a firearm and modifying it for the purposes of selling it on - NO. Unless you are an RFD.

That's how I'd look at it, I could be wrong.

Lawyer.... thank christ no.... concerned shooter..... yes. I do like to read between the fine lines though. but ive a bit more to read before i go any further with my project.

intent is possibly the key here !

Grizzly 45

Many problems with this legislation.
As we know there are some dealers out there who fix guns with [a] Hammer bigger hammer [c] old screwdriver used to pry off hubcaps on tractor [d] roll of duct tape.
It would be intresting to see whatever happens when a gun dealer,who is a total different bucket of fish to a gunsmith,modifies,repairs etc a firearm and it becomes unsafe and there is a fatality or accident with it here.
Not to mind product warranty invalidation.It does say in all your instruction manuals that you get with a new gun.Have it serviced by a qualified gun SMITH!Which in most of Europe and the US is a qualified trade by apprenticeship.So at least there is a minute chance of you not getting your gun back with a barrel designed for shooting around corners when all you wanted was a scope put on it.:eek:

As for the other problem ,it is enforcement.Put it like this can you imagine being stopped by a Garda somwhere and the following conversation ensues.
Garda"Ah a bolt action CZ very fine piece of equipment there Sir,however I must dissamble it to see wether you have the standard trigger in it or have you modified it yourself to a match trigger system..Best Fess up now son...Save us all a load of bother down in de station.AHA! Dem scope rings are non issue with that brand of scope,so you modified it yourself then?Youre nicked!"

gunhappy_ie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Many problems with this legislation.
As we know there are some dealers out there who fix guns with [a] Hammer bigger hammer [c] old screwdriver used to pry off hubcaps on tractor [d] roll of duct tape.
It would be intresting to see whatever happens when a gun dealer,who is a total different bucket of fish to a gunsmith,modifies,repairs etc a firearm and it becomes unsafe and there is a fatality or accident with it here.
Not to mind product warranty invalidation.It does say in all your instruction manuals that you get with a new gun.Have it serviced by a qualified gun SMITH!Which in most of Europe and the US is a qualified trade by apprenticeship.So at least there is a minute chance of you not getting your gun back with a barrel designed for shooting around corners when all you wanted was a scope put on it.:eek:

As for the other problem ,it is enforcement.Put it like this can you imagine being stopped by a Garda somwhere and the following conversation ensues.
Garda"Ah a bolt action CZ very fine piece of equipment there Sir,however I must dissamble it to see wether you have the standard trigger in it or have you modified it yourself to a match trigger system..Best Fess up now son...Save us all a load of bother down in de station.AHA! Dem scope rings are non issue with that brand of scope,so you modified it yourself then?Youre nicked!"

Ill never reveal names but ive seen some dealers do hairy jobs (im sure we all have) mounting scopes. One dealer retapped a reciever of a customers rifle by A: Using an electic drill to drill out the existing holes and B: tap the holes by hand.

Im sorry ... that all has to be done by machine to make sure its perfectly center !

Warranties are a big thing that people dont realise and 9/10 times rather than replace a part a dealer will have to(because of lack of knowledge) replace the rifle causing hassle to the shooter by making them wait and having to change serial numbers on licences.

Mr.Flibble

sfakiaman wrote: »

I thought shortening a barrel was the only illegal modification an owner could do....

This is what everyone is thinking of, and assuming it apples to all modifications.

sfakiaman wrote: »

....provided that the end result didn't change the status of the firearm. Of course if one were to fit a pistol grip stock to one's single shot .22 target rifle one could expect to face the full rigours of the law :rolleyes:.

Exactly - you're perfectly entitled to modify your gun yourself, provided the modification doesn't change the gun so as to make it illegal, e.g. converting a semi-auto to full auto.

Mr.Flibble

OldEyes wrote: »

If you've spoken to the DOJ then you have it from the horse’s mouth.

I suspect it was the other end of the animal he was listening to.