Liverpool v Atletico Madrid

UnitedIrishman

flahavaj wrote: »

I wouldn't agree tbh. Look at United, the masters of the late late goal. They rarely resort to lumping the ball forward, they keep playing their football and it usualy pays off. Stick to your footballing principles I say. Keeping the heads in the last second and picking the right run or pass (see Giggs to Owen vs City) has a better chance of succeeding than blind hit and hope IMO.

Also sticking Pique up top is hardly throwing a big man up front to put the ball on his head. Look at the skill of him for the goal, hes a better footballer than a lot of average strikers!

We do it a fair bit, especially if we're playing a team in the bottom half of the table in a must win game - Vidic vs. Sunderland last year is an example. He goes up quite a bit if the game is deadlocked and we don't look like getting a winner.

JerryHandbag

In the first leg Liverpool had 90 mins to score an away goal

Tonight Madrid had 120 mins to do same. Does that seem fair to anyone??

I'm not just saying this cos I'll be *cough* supporting Liverpool this weekend , but its happened many times before. In other words, away goal rule should be scrapped after 180 mins, which means it woulda been penos.

Anyway, I think Liverpool played really well from what I saw, until I switched over to the Fulham game for last few mins.

mayordenis

JerryHandbag wrote: »

In the first leg Liverpool had 90 mins to score and away goal

Tonight Madrid had 120 mins to do same. Does that seem fair to anyone??

I'm not just saying this cos I'll be *cough* supporting Liverpool this weekend , but its happened many times before. In other words, away goal rule should be scrapped after 180 mins, which means it woulda been penos.

Anyway, I think Liverpool played really well from what I saw, until I switched over to the Fulham game for last few mins.

Absoltutely right it's never made sense I wouldn't blame that for us going out tonight or anything but it's always been quite baffling.

flahavaj

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

We do it a fair bit, especially if we're playing a team in the bottom half of the table in a must win game - Vidic vs. Sunderland last year is an example. He goes up quite a bit if the game is deadlocked and we don't look like getting a winner.

Don't ruin my snobbish and over inflated views of my team's footballing principles.:pac:

Mr Alan

that disallowed Yossi goal from the first leg is wrecking my head now, football will always break your ****in heart.

monkey9

JerryHandbag wrote: »

In the first leg Liverpool had 90 mins to score an away goal

Tonight Madrid had 120 mins to do same. Does that seem fair to anyone??

I'm not just saying this cos I'll be *cough* supporting Liverpool this weekend , but its happened many times before. In other words, away goal rule should be scrapped after 180 mins, which means it woulda been penos.

Anyway, I think Liverpool played really well from what I saw, until I switched over to the Fulham game for last few mins.

Yeah, i really hate that rule. But the authorities will argue that it's to counter having the 2nd leg at home as an advantage!!

nacho libre

The Recliner wrote: »

Not me for one, I want Liverpool to win whenever they play regardless of what the result may mean for other teams

so you would be happy for Liverpool to help Manchester United win the title? knowing that the win may help to realise one of Ferguson's last ambitions as a manager???

everdead.ie

mayordenis wrote: »

Absoltutely right it's never made sense I wouldn't blame that for us going out tonight or anything but it's always been quite baffling.

The fact that you get to spend an extra half hour playing with that famous Kop Roar™where as Athletico only got to spend 90 minutes in front of there home fans you got to play for 120 minutes in front of yours

L'prof

JerryHandbag wrote: »

In the first leg Liverpool had 90 mins to score an away goal

Tonight Madrid had 120 mins to do same. Does that seem fair to anyone??

I'm not just saying this cos I'll be *cough* supporting Liverpool this weekend , but its happened many times before. In other words, away goal rule should be scrapped after 180 mins, which means it woulda been penos.

Anyway, I think Liverpool played really well from what I saw, until I switched over to the Fulham game for last few mins.

mayordenis wrote: »

Absoltutely right it's never made sense I wouldn't blame that for us going out tonight or anything but it's always been quite baffling.

And what of the advantage of playing an extra 30 minutes in front of the home fans? That's a big advantage too, especially in Anfield! It's a damn site better than the away goals rule in the semi-final of the Carling cup anyway!

I reckon if you're gonna change it, just get rid of them altogether!

The Recliner

nacho libre wrote: »

so you would be happy for Liverpool to help Manchester United win the title? knowing that the win may help to realise one of Ferguson's last ambitions as a manager???

We are not helping them win the title, we are playing our own games and they are playing theirs

There are 38 games in a season, our result against Chelsea is not the pivitol one

I for one would be sick if we went out and threw a game just to deny United, it is petty and small time attitude, the state liverpool are in at the moment Man U will overtake us soon enough anyway unless we improve rapidly.

What we need to do is go out and win mroe titles, not depend on United to not win them

L'prof

everdead.ie wrote: »

The fact that you get to spend an extra half hour playing with that famous Kop Roar™where as Athletico only got to spend 90 minutes in front of there home fans you got to play for 120 minutes in front of yours

Damn you!!!

everdead.ie

jasonorr wrote: »

Damn you!!!

I would of been quicker but I was looking for the trade mark symbol :pac:

Columbia

I can't believe people's refusal to accept the fact that the advantage of playing at home for an extra thirty minutes is countered by allowing away goals to count in that time. It's absolutely common sense, and that's that.

People need to stop picking out any excuse they can possibly imagine, because no sporting team will ever make any progress by doing that. Not one person was complaining about the rule beforehand, you can't suddenly pretend to be up in arms about it once an accepted rule goes against you.

JerryHandbag

mayordenis wrote: »

Absoltutely right it's never made sense I wouldn't blame that for us going out tonight or anything but it's always been quite baffling.

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah, i really hate that rule. But the authorities will argue that it's to counter having the 2nd leg at home as an advantage!!

Either scrap the away goals at 180 mins, or go straight to penalties at full time. Liverpool beat Madrid fair and square tonite, just as Madrid did in the first leg. It is a 2 legged affair after all, and each leg should be 90 mins.

Ah perhaps I'm just nitpicking But its always been a rule thats baffled me.

JerryHandbag

Columbia wrote: »

I can't believe people's refusal to accept the fact that the advantage of playing at home for an extra thirty minutes is countered by allowing away goals to count in that time. It's absolutely common sense, and that's that.

People need to stop picking out any excuse they can possibly imagine, because no sporting team will ever make any progress by doing that. Not one person was complaining about the rule beforehand, you can't suddenly pretend to be up in arms about it once an accepted rule goes against you.

In fairness, I dont think anyone is "pretending to be up in arms" about it. It just seems a weird rule to me.

nacho libre

The Recliner wrote: »

We are not helping them win the title, we are playing our own games and they are playing theirs

well in effect we would be going along way to helping them win the title by beating Chelsea. Why else do united supporters want Liverpool to win...? There is really nothing to play for at this stage. Fourth place is all but gone.
We can look ahead at the end of the season with a view to competing for the title next year.

Holsten

nacho libre wrote: »

We can look ahead at the end of the season with a view to competing for the title next year.

Not a chance, next season it will be all out for 4th.

Maybe a run in the FA cup.

nacho libre

Holsten wrote: »

Not a chance, next season it will be all out for 4th.

Maybe a run in the FA cup.

i think we've got to aim higher than that if we want to hold on to our big players. so hopefully a buyer and inward investment can be attained during the summer so we can bring in one or two quality players and get rid of the deadwood.

Jazzy

JerryHandbag wrote: »

I'm not just saying this cos I'll be *cough* supporting Liverpool this weekend , but its happened many times before. In other words, away goal rule should be scrapped after 180 mins, which means it woulda been penos.

aye, I said as much after Utd got knocked out. losing on away goals is never nice

Xavi6

FlawedGenius - your post was deleted for a reason, i.e. it was crap and added nothing.

Posting it again is not on so don't do it again.

LuckyLloyd

Great effort and performance. The injuries did for us in extra time. Fair play to Athletico, earned it over the two legs. Couldn't ask for more from the players or manager as a fan, but obviously the manner of the defeat is utterly devastating. Fits nicely with the season we've had - the CL exit away at Lyon was secured in similar fashion (get the goal, celebrate, die inside a couple of minutes later).

Ah well.

Hoki

Was anyone else else pulling their hair out every time Carragher played a 60 yard punt down the pitch into the grateful possession of the Atletico defenders? I think he did it at least 9 times in this game no exaggeration.

Over the course of the 2 legs i dont think we did enough to get through , i thought throughout the 2nd half Atletico looked the more likely to score & even in extra time they looked a lot fresher.

Our subs never impacted the game which was pivotal in a match that spanned 120 mins. Aquilani played well, as did Kuyt & Mascherano. Gerrard was anonymous after half time, Benayoun & Babel were out of the game bar the occasional cameo.

Unfortunate in the way we went out but on the basis of the 2 legs i think the best team went through , good luck to them in the final but il be still cheering on Fulham - would love to see an ex red lift the cup .

astrofool

I was shocked that Liverpool never really pressed the game after Atletico got the goal, it was all long balls, and Atletico should have finished at least one of the multiple counter attacks they had at the end (esp. Simao's chance).

I'm sure Atletico were worried, but more about a 40 yard screamer coming from nowhere, than from Liverpool's "passing" game.

sisco

He Must Go Now Nobidy SHould Even Try and Argue This

Mr Alan

sisco wrote: »

He Must Go Now Nobidy SHould Even Try and Argue This

LOL :P

Mental Mickey

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Great effort and performance. The injuries did for us in extra time. Fair play to Athletico, earned it over the two legs. Couldn't ask for more from the players or manager as a fan, but obviously the manner of the defeat is utterly devastating. Fits nicely with the season we've had - the CL exit away at Lyon was secured in similar fashion (get the goal, celebrate, die inside a couple of minutes later).

Ah well.

What game were you watching? Apart from Mascherano, Aquilani, and Babel we were poor.

Rafa will be gone in the summer, no doubt about that now. "I guarantee we will finish fourth". Yeah, right. On yer bike, son.

Mister Gooey

As it is only going to get worse next season for the 'Pool (no money, same manger, same players, same owners...), I am going to support Rochdale, the home of biggoted women I believe !

Bye bye Rafa!

Ardent

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Rafa will be gone in the summer, no doubt about that now.

And not before time, to be honest. He's been living off that fortunate CL win for some time now.

Iago

Whatever about being disappointed over the way the season has panned out, calling for the managers head after going out of a European semi-final on away goals after extra time is a little over the top imo.

Ush1

LOL @ Forlans wikipedia page. Has nothing specific about his career after Man. United apart from somebody adding he scored 2 goals against Liverpool. Wonder if they were a United fan per chance?

Mister Gooey

Iago wrote: »

Whatever about being disappointed over the way the season has panned out, calling for the managers head after going out of a European semi-final on away goals after extra time is a little over the top imo.

Well in any working environment, if you don't achieve minimum expected targets (none met and only in next year's Europa League due to Portsmouth default!) changes are made in management and staff. A fact of business life. There are other good managers and there are also other good players in this world. Everyone has to move on at some stage and IMO it is now Rafa's time. He has done a good job but now it is time for something new!

LuckyLloyd

Mental Mickey wrote: »

What game were you watching? Apart from Mascherano, Aquilani, and Babel we were poor.

The right game, where we won 2 - 1 off the back of a solid performance, just tailing off in the last 20 minutes of extra time.

Warper

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The right game, where we won 2 - 1 off the back of a solid performance, just tailing off in the last 20 minutes of extra time.

I think Liverpool were the better team in the first half but Atletico were the better team in the second half plus in extra time. Liverpool looked wrecked by the end which is great news for Chelsea.

NabyLadistheman

The simple fact of the matter is we had to turn to El Zhar & Degen. In a European Cup semi? Come off it

Iago

Mister Gooey wrote: »

Well in any working environment, if you don't achieve minimum expected targets (none met and only in next year's Europa League due to Portsmouth default!) changes are made in management and staff. A fact of business life. There are other good managers and there are also other good players in this world. Everyone has to move on at some stage and IMO it is now Rafa's time. He has done a good job but now it is time for something new!

Yes, but Rafa has done as well as he could have expected to with the squad he has.

In very simple terms Liverpool have 3/4 world class players with the rest of the first 11 making up the numbers, and the bulk of the rest of the squad not up to the challenge. This isn't unique by any means, but it is a statement of fact. That means that they aren't going to steamroller teams, they won't walk to victory after victory and in the cold light of day most games will come down to getting some luck or not getting some luck.

For Liverpool you have Reina/Gerrard/Mascherano/Torres, after them everybody is transferable and expendable for the right offer or if the right player becomes available.

Again, this is hardly unique but if you compare it to Chelsea for example I would say they have more players of that ilk in Cech/Terry/Cole/Carvalho/Essien/Lampard/Drogba and an argument could be made for Malouda & Anelka.

When the vast majority of your squad in the case of Liverpool (& United for that matter) are at best only "good bordering on great" as opposed to "great bordering on World Class" then you can only achieve so much without a huge slice of luck. I thought Liverpool were in control for most of the game last night, without being spectacular, but when you're down to fine margins you're going to lose as many as you win.

Changing the manager won't change any of that. Adding 1/2 "great bordering on World Class" players a year for 2-3 years will. That's where the changes need to come for Liverpool, with investment in quality players as opposed to picking up 6/7 squad players.

Hank Scorpio

Iago wrote: »

Yes, but Rafa has done as well as he could have expected to with the squad he built.

FYP

Dublin_Gunner

Iago wrote: »

YThat's where the changes need to come for Liverpool, with investment in quality players as opposed to picking up 6/7 squad players.

Exactly what I've been saying all along also.

Mental Mickey

nuxxx wrote: »

FYP

Apart from Gerrard and Carra. That team is entirely made up of players he bought.

I'm fed up with him saying that he didn't get financial support to buy players. Apart from Torres, Masch, Reina and Agger, the squad just isn't good enough.

noodler

I couldn't help but keep switiching between games last night so I may have missed some aspects our our performance in the 90 mins anyway.

We played well all things considered, still would have felt somewhat perverse if we had ended this dismal season with a trophy.

I don't think Johnson should be spared any criticism for the mistake just because he was leftback.

JimsAlterEgo

noodler wrote: »

I don't think Johnson should be spared any criticism for the mistake just because he was leftback.

lol , too right not as if it was a left footed header

Dublin_Gunner

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

lol , too right not as if it was a left footed header

And what annoys me most, is that he'd been playing fairly safe all evening, just clearing the ball when it needed to be, nothing fancy. Then he goes and does that?? WTF, just knock the bloody ball out!

Ush1

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

lol , too right not as if it was a left footed header

Have to say I thought Reyes was great in parts. Fantastic touches and pace, and the stamina. He was making great runs still in extra time.

noodler

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Apart from Gerrard and Carra. That team is entirely made up of players he bought.

I'm fed up with him saying that he didn't get financial support to buy players. Apart from Torres, Masch, Reina and Agger, the squad just isn't good enough.

I think the answer is always somewhere in between. We don't get to spend what Utd and Chelsea do - that compared to Arsenal (and excluding the wages at youth level for a moment) we sure have.

You can obviously argue the net spend scenario to an extent, and it makes sense, but many of the players who left were deemed surplus to requirements so any argument that we were selling crucial players to fund other purchases is probably a little false on the whole for me (on the whole I said before some smartass mentions Alonso who wanted to leave).

You can't deny some of the quality signings though, Masch, Torres and Johnson have undoubted quality (even if we feel Glen has a bit to learn) whilst bargains were found in Garcia, Reina, Alonso, Agger, Skrtel, Bellamy (sold for a profit after only a year).

There have been mishaps alright so I am always of the opinion Rafa could be given more to spend but he also hasn't always wowed me with his ability to spot a bargain (particularly in the latter half of his reign).

6 years is a long time though - the only thing that would save him now is surely the fact the owners would have no real incentive to sack him when they are trying to find a buyer.

EDIT: Uh, actually thats probably a bit OT for this thread. Move to general if you like mod - apologies, forgot which thread I was in.

Dublin_Gunner

Ush1 wrote: »

Have to say I thought Reyes was great in parts. Fantastic touches and pace, and the stamina. He was making great runs still in extra time.

Yeah, Reyes & Aguero were excellent I thought. (Aguero & Masch had a great little battle all night!)

Reyes was dictating just about everything coming through midfield for them, and Aguero was constantly making darting runs in behind.

2 very dangerous players.

Mister Gooey

noodler wrote: »

I think the answer is always somewhere in between. We don't get to spend what Utd and Chelsea do - that compared to Arsenal (and excluding the wages at youth level for a moment) we sure have.

You can obviously argue the net spend scenario to an extent, and it makes sense, but many of the players who left were deemed surplus to requirements so any argument that we were selling crucial players to fund other purchases is probably a little false on the whole for me (on the whole I said before some smartass mentions Alonso who wanted to leave).

You can't deny some of the quality signings though, Masch, Torres and Johnson have undoubted quality (even if we feel Glen has a bit to learn) whilst bargains were found in Garcia, Reina, Alonso, Agger, Skrtel, Bellamy (sold for a profit after only a year).

There have been mishaps alright so I am always of the opinion Rafa could be given more to spend but he also hasn't always wowed me with his ability to spot a bargain (particularly in the latter half of his reign).

6 years is a long time though - the only thing that would save him now is surely the fact the owners would have no real incentive to sack him when they are trying to find a buyer.

The team is almost the same as last seaons bar Alonso, a team which was deemed to have quality in all positions and on the bench (read our old threads!). They have not been motivated all season and that is the managers job. If he has lost the team, he either changes the team and assumes command again or he goes! Simple as that.;)

JimsAlterEgo

noodler wrote: »

Johnson have undoubted quality

this is true but IMO despite being a good player it was a dubious transfer taking the overall transfer activity last summer into account

Mister Gooey

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

this is true but IMO despite being a good player it was a dubious transfer taking the overall transfer activity last summer into account

£18million for a full back and £115grand a week. Terrible transfer activity. Goals win you matches, full backs getting caught out of position lose you games. Mr. Johnson take a bow. We needed to spend £18million on a decent forward. Our defense has not improved since Jonhson's arrival. I am not saying it is all his fault but he is not the best full back defensively. (If he plays for England in the WC, he will be targeted! Just watch!).

Warper

Mister Gooey wrote: »

£18million for a full back and £115grand a week. Terrible transfer activity. Goals win you matches, full backs getting caught out of position lose you games. Mr. Johnson take a bow. We needed to spend £18million on a decent forward. Our defense has not improved since Jonhson's arrival. I am not saying it is all his fault but he is not the best full back defensively. (If he plays for England in the WC, he will be targeted! Just watch!).

This is true - Johnson was never a good defender and was a shocking purchase for £18m. He is a liability and is prone to making basic mistakes. Johnson is England's no. 1 right-back which is great news.

SlickRic

Mister Gooey wrote: »

£18million for a full back and £115grand a week. Terrible transfer activity. Goals win you matches, full backs getting caught out of position lose you games. Mr. Johnson take a bow. We needed to spend £18million on a decent forward. Our defense has not improved since Jonhson's arrival. I am not saying it is all his fault but he is not the best full back defensively. (If he plays for England in the WC, he will be targeted! Just watch!).

Johnson has by-and-large been our best defender, bar maybe Agger at a push.

£18m should not have been spent on a forward. that would have been a complete waste of time. hindsight is a wonderful thing, and it would've been handy to have an £18m striker on the bench, what with all Torres' injury problems.

but it's not as simple as that.

i think we paid over the odds for Johnson; but it suited us. Pompey owed us money, they had an archetypal modern attacking RB, who'd just had a great season, looking to move to a bigger club. it was a no-brainer, and i still believe he'll turn out to be a fantastic purchase.

hindsight is always a wonderful thing. it's what us fans are best at. managers don't have the luxury of knowing what's going to happen before it happens, so they can't rectify things that are only 'mistakes' in hindsight.

SantryRed

Does no one else think signing Johnson cost Liverpool a lot of points this season? Last year they had a compact back four who didn't really bomb on as much, I think signing Johnson caused a change in system.