Liverpool v Atletico Madrid

SlickRic

SantryRed wrote: »

Does no one else think signing Johnson cost Liverpool a lot of points this season? Last year they had a compact back four who didn't really bomb on as much, I think signing Johnson caused a change in system.

Insua having to play pretty much the whole season...thank you Mr Aurelio and your glass limbs...and Carragher losing form were far bigger reasons.

it's amazing how we're lambasted for having a RB, in Arbeloa, who got a nosebleed everytime he got past the halfway line, yet we buy a genuine attacking threat in Johnson, who by-and-large has defended well, and now he gets criticised.

i see what would make everyone happy...the perfect RB. no flaws.

go figure.

SantryRed

SlickRic wrote: »

Insua having to play pretty much the whole season...thank you Mr Aurelio and your glass limbs...and Carragher losing form were far bigger reasons.

it's amazing how we're lambasted for having a RB, in Arbeloa, who got a nosebleed everytime he got past the halfway line, yet we buy a genuine attacking threat in Johnson, who by-and-large has defended well, and now he gets criticised.

i see what would make everyone happy...the perfect RB. no flaws.

go figure.

But the fact is, away from home, you didn't need a right full who bombed on, not at all. At home you could have done with him with the amount of draws.

Mister Gooey

SlickRic wrote: »

Johnson has by-and-large been our best defender, bar maybe Agger at a push.

£18m should not have been spent on a forward. that would have been a complete waste of time. hindsight is a wonderful thing, and it would've been handy to have an £18m striker on the bench, what with all Torres' injury problems.

but it's not as simple as that.

i think we paid over the odds for Johnson; but it suited us. Pompey owed us money, they had an archetypal modern attacking RB, who'd just had a great season, looking to move to a bigger club. it was a no-brainer, and i still believe he'll turn out to be a fantastic purchase.

hindsight is always a wonderful thing. it's what us fans are best at. managers don't have the luxury of knowing what's going to happen before it happens, so they can't rectify things that are only 'mistakes' in hindsight.

Johnson is a great attacking full back, he is a bad defending full back. His pace can only help him so many times to get back into position. Both Madrid goals came from his side of the pitch. He was out of place for the first goal last week and he didn't clear a header last night. Really good defenders never get caught out (and they do exist!).

Hank Scorpio

I hate when liverpool supporters use these two words. "Net Spending" - Rafa has bought crap, sold crap, bought crap, sold crap in a continuous cycle.

It doesnt mean he hasnt spent alot of money, he has.

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/benitez.asp

Saying that Torres and Reina were too excellent buys

Mister Gooey

nuxxx wrote: »

I hate when liverpool supporters use these two words. "Net Spending" - Rafa has bought crap, sold crap, bought crap, sold crap in a continuous cycle.

It doesnt mean he hasnt spent alot of money, he has.

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/benitez.asp

Saying that Torres and Reina were too excellent buys

Alonso, Torres and Reina - excellent buys. But the list that you have linked just shows how badly Rafa has spent. There are some beauties there!

ThunbergsAreGo

SlickRic wrote: »

Insua having to play pretty much the whole season...thank you Mr Aurelio and your glass limbs...and Carragher losing form were far bigger reasons.

it's amazing how we're lambasted for having a RB, in Arbeloa, who got a nosebleed everytime he got past the halfway line, yet we buy a genuine attacking threat in Johnson, who by-and-large has defended well, and now he gets criticised.

i see what would make everyone happy...the perfect RB. no flaws.

go figure.

Agree, just cant win with some people.

Maybe Johnson has cost us points but he has also won us some points with some excellent attacking play.

Also Pepe is in line for Golden Gloves so backline cant have been that bad

I would love a settled season with this team together, one or two additons and we arent too bad.

People forget how many changes he had to make to our backlline particularily in the first half of the season.

L'prof

naughtb4 wrote: »

People forget how many changes he had to make to our backlline particularily in the first half of the season.

People don't forget, it's just that injuries are commonplace in the game and have to be expected. I don't think Liverpool's injuries have been worse than any of the other top teams to be honest. Maybe Chelsea are the exception here, they might have had their fair share of injuries too but are much better equipped than the rest to deal wih them!

ThunbergsAreGo

jasonorr wrote: »

People don't forget, it's just that injuries are commonplace in the game and have to be expected. I don't think Liverpool's injuries have been worse than any of the other top teams to be honest. Maybe Chelsea are the exception here, they might have had their fair share of injuries too but are much better equipped than the rest to deal wih them!

I do take waht you are saying i was more talking about the point that in previous seasons we had a very settled backline. Skrtel, Carra, arbeloa were generally ever presents

We have essentially bedded three new players into our backline during the season, it will casue disruption,

SlickRic

our injuries certainly haven't been worse than others in the top 4.

we haven't coped well.

we are in a position, unlike Utd and Chelsea in particular, where we admittedly can't afford to have too many players out, because our squad, as a whole, can't really live with it. especially without Torres.

whether that's Rafa's fault, the board, Parry, etc, is up for debate. IMO it's a mix of all of them. but the fact is, we couldn't cope adequately.

Eire-Dearg

Gutted, but pleased with the performance from the likes of Mascherano and to a certain extent Babel, who I saw running at one point.

I want this season to end now.

Johner

Atletico's European form this year makes for interesting viewing,

D
L
L
D
D
L
D
W
D
D
D
D
W
L

Final

noodler

SlickRic wrote: »

£18m should not have been spent on a forward. that would have been a complete waste of time. hindsight is a wonderful thing, and it would've been handy to have an £18m striker on the bench, what with all Torres' injury problems.

hindsight is always a wonderful thing. it's what us fans are best at. managers don't have the luxury of knowing what's going to happen before it happens, so they can't rectify things that are only 'mistakes' in hindsight.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as is foresight.

Torres was injured alot last year and yet Keane was sold. He wasn't really replaced and then Torres has more injury problems this year.

I honestly think it is fanciful stuff to say that, back in summer 2009, no one was considering the notion that Torres may be injured a bit this season.

SantryRed wrote: »

Does no one else think signing Johnson cost Liverpool a lot of points this season? Last year they had a compact back four who didn't really bomb on as much, I think signing Johnson caused a change in system.

More Carra and Insua declines in form for me.

SantryRed wrote: »

But the fact is, away from home, you didn't need a right full who bombed on, not at all. At home you could have done with him with the amount of draws.

He was really bought, IMO, to solve the age old EPL Liverpool problem of failing to break teams down at Anfield when we have most of the ball and they are parking the bus. He has made an impact in this respect for sure.

SlickRic

noodler wrote: »

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as is foresight.

Torres was injured alot last year and yet Keane was sold. He wasn't really replaced and then Torres has more injury problems this year.

I honestly think it is fanciful stuff to say that, back in summer 2009, no one was considering the notion that Torres may be injured a bit this season.

you couldn't prepare for the extent to which he's been sidelined.

we should have better back-up up front, as well as N'Gog has done at times, but Torres injured for so much of the season hampered us hugely.

we shouldn't be so reliant on him, but we are.

i don't think Keane would have made any difference in all honesty.

noodler

SlickRic wrote: »

you couldn't prepare for the extent to which he's been sidelined.

we should have better back-up up front, as well as N'Gog has done at times, but Torres injured for so much of the season hampered us hugely.

we shouldn't be so reliant on him, but we are.

i don't think Keane would have made any difference in all honesty.

I think it is extremely bitter to think Keane would have made no difference for the half season Torres has been out tbh.

How many PL games did Torres miss this season compared to last by the way? Surely it is fairly comparable?

I practically exclude N'Gog for criticism at times because what he has been asked to do on his own isn't really his own fault.

SlickRic

noodler wrote: »

I think it is extremely bitter to think Keane would have made no difference for the half season Torres has been out tbh.

it's not bitter.

i don't think he'd have made much of a difference, a slight one maybe, but not much.

honestly.

his form's been sh*te, and he couldn't get in the Spurs team. he only improved once he went to the SPL.

that's just my opinion though.

noodler

SlickRic wrote: »

it's not bitter.

i don't think he'd have made much of a difference, a slight one maybe, but not much.

honestly.

his form's been sh*te, and he couldn't get in the Spurs team. he only improved once he went to the SPL.

that's just my opinion though.

7 goals and a couple of assist in his 6 month spell with us last season were widely criticised as being not good enough for a £17m pound player and that is fair enough but I just think even that small contribution this season could have made a significant difference in the race for fourth at least.

Anyway, Keane is irrelevant but he really should have been replaced to some extent which I think we agree on.

Mental Mickey

We all agree that Keane should've been kept/used more. He was criminally underused during his time at Anfield.

Mental Mickey

nuxxx wrote: »

I hate when liverpool supporters use these two words. "Net Spending" - Rafa has bought crap, sold crap, bought crap, sold crap in a continuous cycle.

It doesnt mean he hasnt spent alot of money, he has.

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/benitez.asp

Saying that Torres and Reina were too excellent buys

My Gawd, there are some sh1te players on that list!! A lot of 'em I haven't even heard of!!!???

redzerdrog

Mental Mickey wrote: »

We all agree that Keane should've been kept/used more. He was criminally underused during his time at Anfield.

used more??????? he was there for a few months and started 21 games ad was a used sub in 5 more!!!!!

how much more exactlt did you want him used?

redzerdrog

Mental Mickey wrote: »

My Gawd, there are some sh1te players on that list!! A lot of 'em I haven't even heard of!!!???

says alot tbh

Jazzy

stephen warnock at £1.2m was a bargain. Im still annoyed he let him go, everyone could see that he was good... and then he signs doseena for £7m

noodler

redzerdrog wrote: »

used more??????? he was there for a few months and started 21 games ad was a used sub in 5 more!!!!!

how much more exactlt did you want him used?

I think thats a stats hiding the issue case there. There were a number of games he didn't start or even play a part in even though Fernando was absent.

I just think he gets a raw deal compared to the patience being allowed Aqualani / Babel / Insua.

SlickRic

Mental Mickey wrote: »

My Gawd, there are some sh1te players on that list!! A lot of 'em I haven't even heard of!!!???

there are also some cracking players on that list.

go figure.

redzerdrog

noodler wrote: »

I think thats a stats hiding the issue case there. There were a number of games he didn't start or even play a part in even though Fernando was absent.

I just think he gets a raw deal compared to the patience being allowed Aqualani / Babel / Insua.

i believe he should have been given more time there to prove himself providing he actually wanted to stay and fight for his place.

but with 21 starts and 5 sub appearances people cant say he was under used, i would like to know how many games he didnt feature in during his time there.

noodler

redzerdrog wrote: »

says alot tbh

Can work both ways tbh - they didn't amount to household names becasue they weren't good enough or becasue of a lack of fottball knowledge!:pac:

redzerdrog

well a lot were trainees and most liverpool fans would still know at least 90% of that list. A lot of them are still young and featuring regularly for the youths and reserves over the last few seasons.

LuckyLloyd

nuxxx wrote: »

I hate when liverpool supporters use these two words. "Net Spending" - Rafa has bought crap, sold crap, bought crap, sold crap in a continuous cycle.

It doesnt mean he hasnt spent alot of money, he has.

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/benitez.asp

Saying that Torres and Reina were too excellent buys

Of course you do, because your objective is to stick the boot in - and as such, reasonable points that prevent you from achieving your objective are irritating.

x in the city

Rafa has spent.... (insert figure.)

during his tenrue, the only decent players he has to show for it are Torres and Reina, who are argubaly too big for the club even now.

Masch is underperforming if anything, and has been ever since Alonso left.

If Rafa stays most Everton fans and all other rival fans will rejoce for sure.

Real Pool fans would want a new manager, and a total clear out of dead wood asap.

I didnt bother checking his exact expenditure, but for sure its one of the top 3 in the country since he took charge.

mike65

Evertonians and their little victories eh?

SlickRic

the subject of Rafa's spending should be banned from discussion.

it just starts too much sh*t.

but x in the city, the fact you'd suggest that Torres and Reina are the only decent players Rafa 'has to show' for 6 years, just shows how pointless it would be trying to discuss it with you.

x in the city

SlickRic wrote: »

the subject of Rafa's spending should be banned from discussion.

it just starts too much sh*t.

but x in the city, the fact you'd suggest that Torres and Reina are the only decent players Rafa 'has to show' for 6 years, just shows how pointless it would be trying to discuss it with you.

by decent I mean players galactio clubs would **** themselves over signing.

sure, Pool have lots of useful players, but so do a lot of clubs.

They halso have several mediocre players, and a useless youth policy for over a decade. Rafa has been largely relying on big fat cheque books to survive, but them times are long gone.

and dont go spouting out them youth players no one has heard of, Im talking players that make a real impact on the first team, not someone coming on with 5 mins to go that hardly anyone has heard of.

anyway, I hope he stays.

missingtime

x in the city wrote: »

by decent I mean players galactio clubs would **** themselves over signing.

We cant afford them though thats the problem. All we can do is buy players that we can get a good deal on or buy under the radar.

Mr Alan

god you can tell its been a horrendously ****e season when even the Everton fans are getting their boots in :rolleyes:

leninbenjamin

Pool supporters deflecting discussion, who'd have thought it!

Hodgson gets through with a squad made up of misfits and rejects. Benitez, fair enough he'd a few injuries, but c'mon, a club like Pool relying on Degan, El'Zhar? He's made a balls of his transfers.

missingtime

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Pool supporters deflecting discussion, who'd have thought it!

Hodgson gets through with a squad made up of misfits and rejects. Benitez, fair enough he'd a few injuries, but c'mon, a club like Pool relying on Degan, El'Zhar? He's made a balls of his transfers.

I dont know if relying is the right word.

EDIT: Benitez would be the first to admit that Degan and El'Zhar are not ideal, even though El'Zhar has come off the bench to change games, but what can we do. He's made some mistakes and....eugh...nevermind

leninbenjamin

missingtime wrote: »

I dont know if relying is the right word.

EDIT: Benitez would be the first to admit that Degan and El'Zhar are not ideal, even though El'Zhar has come off the bench to change games, but what can we do. He's made some mistakes and....eugh...nevermind

You're right, poor wording. But it doesn't change my point, a small club like Fulham had Dempsey, Greening, Nevland to choose from. Liverpool only had inexperience. Pool fans can and should expect better.

Chardee MacDennis

just in from the game a few hours ago, went skipping through the thread but had to stop due to some ****e being posted.

have to say atleti fans were great, our fans were brilliant too and there was lots of singing of rafa chants around me (including me giving it socks!!). The only complaint i have bout the liverpool fans was the pedestal they put carra (who i thought played one of his strongest games of the season) and stevie on - lots of misplaced passes from either was greeted by too many "oh that was a fine pass but lucas/agger wasnt in the right position"

aquilani looked very good - the tempo seemed to pick up when he got the ball. masch did well on the right and was the right player to come off when he did imo. babel was extremely poor and cant explain how he played the full game, constantly half attempting to win 50/50 balls and falling over or just hesitating to cross from a good position.

i didnt think benny played well in the first half but improved with every minute after the goal and once he scored he looked like he could take on anyone (to his detriment in one case)

kuyt ran and ran but kept moving into the channels as usual, he went down easily for the hand to the face but it was a definite red and the ref/lino/9th official bottled it as from what i saw at least 2/3 saw it.

that 6th official is the greatest waste of space i have ever seen.

thought el zhar opened up the middle when he came on and gave benny lost of room to run into, degen (who i dont rate really) gave 100% when he came on. when pacheco came on he made an instant impact in moving the ball around but it lasted about 5 mins unfortunately.

still havent seen any of the match on tv so id like to see what the tv picked up (and also i'll be a bit more sober)

thought we needed 3 to qualify as i didnt see us keeping a clean sheet, but i thought we had it when benny grabbed his goal. i'm blaming the magpie...

x in the city

missingtime wrote: »

I dont know if relying is the right word.

EDIT: Benitez would be the first to admit that Degan and El'Zhar are not ideal, even though El'Zhar has come off the bench to change games, but what can we do. He's made some mistakes and....eugh...nevermind

el zhar might as well be a goalie for all the use he is, where the hell did they sign him for or under what basis.

mayordenis

x in the city wrote: »

el zhar might as well be a goalie for all the use he is, where the hell did they sign him for or under what basis.

Saint Ettiene when he was 19 - nothing paid so far I think - It's expected that we'll end up paying something like 100,000 for him though.

But you make a mokery of your self when you waffle off ****e like that.

missingtime

x in the city wrote: »

el zhar might as well be a goalie for all the use he is, where the hell did they sign him for or under what basis.

He was signed a few years ago but never featured last year because of injury. Had a habit of getting important assists and generally changing the way we attacked.

noodler

I felt embaressed when Kuyt went down, it looked worse in the replay than I thought at the time but I do hate to see players fall to the ground if the 'foul' wasn't actually sufficient to put them there.

d22ontour

Maybe he watched the Barca game the night before ? Shameful shíte when players do that.

SantryRed

missingtime wrote: »

He was signed a few years ago but never featured last year because of injury. Had a habit of getting important assists and generally changing the way we attacked.

Seriously?

Important assists when?

Chardee MacDennis

el zhar is our only pure winger, the space he opens up in the middle by hugging the touchlines makes a huge difference. all of our wingers like to run at the side of the box and cut in towards the penalty spot, considering this is where our striker is, with the opposite winger pushing in and our amc running into that penalty spot it leave us very very compact and it is a lot easier to defend imo...

with an out and out winger pulling a left back out it makes a big difference - watch bennys goals from thursday, only reason he had that space in front of him was el zhar pulling out right...

monkey9

x in the city wrote: »

by decent I mean players galactio clubs would **** themselves over signing.

sure, Pool have lots of useful players, but so do a lot of clubs.

They halso have several mediocre players, and a useless youth policy for over a decade. Rafa has been largely relying on big fat cheque books to survive, but them times are long gone.

and dont go spouting out them youth players no one has heard of, Im talking players that make a real impact on the first team, not someone coming on with 5 mins to go that hardly anyone has heard of.

anyway, I hope he stays.

Well, the biggest 'galactico' club of them all signed Alonso and Arbeloa from Liverpool, so you can add those two to your cute little list!!!