Enda Kenny - Dangerous and Unsuitable for Office

danman

Sully, I agree totally. The leader shouldn't come into the debate for who you vote for.

As I said in another thread, if I based my vote on the leader I was most impressed by, I would have voted for a candidate that can't even get a Co Co seat.

I gave mine to FG, despite my feelings about the leader, simply because I thought the candidate had something to offer.

To be honest, I actually don't think the leader does come into mind when selecting a candidate. It comes down to good old honest, what will he do for my area.

(for "He" in this and previous posts, read "He/She")

danman

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Chicken and egg scenario, then, because as long as there are politicians like Ahern, O'Dea, Cooper-Flynn, O'Donoghue, etc in place, and "leaders" who don't weed them out, then it'll be tough for even 1 honest and responsible TD to get in there to change things, let alone 166........

Do you honestly see this ever happening, not even in our lifetime, but ever?

Our system is certainly not perfect, but it's the system we're going to have for the forseeable future.
Even if FG try to change it, it will require a referendum. The people like to have their politions from the locality and one of "Their Own".

I really can't see this changing.

Liam Byrne

danman wrote: »

Do you honestly see this ever happening, not even in our lifetime, but ever?

Unfortunately, no. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't demand it, though.

Our politicians - and their self-interested system - have failed us 100%.

I live in hope, though......maybe someday ethics and fairness will take precedence over untamed capitalism and "massive profit at any cost".

i57dwun4yb1pt8

skearon wrote: »

Enda Kenny again proved how incapable he is to run the country by stating, in the Dáil yesterday, that Irish banks held €7 billion in Greek bonds, a figure that would have had huge implications for their tier one capital requirements as well as for the cost of Irish borrowing, when the actual figure was a mere €40 million.

Such mistakes prove how inept Kenny is, he claims he is able to run the country, however I wouldnt trust his to run a sweet shop!

you think hes bad ?
imagine if we had a fat lipped obese moron with no balls and a shed load of vested interest friends in charge instead - now that would be ba... oh wait

eoinbn

skearon wrote: »

Enda Kenny again proved how incapable he is to run the country by stating, in the Dáil yesterday, that Irish banks held €7 billion in Greek bonds, a figure that would have had huge implications for their tier one capital requirements as well as for the cost of Irish borrowing, when the actual figure was a mere €40 million.

Such mistakes prove how inept Kenny is, he claims he is able to run the country, however I wouldnt trust his to run a sweet shop!

Indo sources have the figure at €6.3bn which would make FG estimate of €7bn much closer than your €40m.

Drumpot

trapsagenius wrote: »

Your naivety is appalling.People in Ireland often do not vote for "the greater good"they vote for personal good.And if it wasn't for the whip system, TDs would do the same.



No, it sounds ridiculous because your proposal would never actually work in the real world.Politicians want to get re-elected-it's a very good job after all.Who would people be more likely to reelect-a TD who cuts wages and welfare even if it was for the greater good, or a gombeen TD who fights tooth and nail against all the said changes?Let's keep a bit of realism in this debate.



More rubbish.The reason it's caused "populism" is because that's what it is-popular.People will not vote for a TD out of concern for the "greater good"-they will vote for one who is of more benefit to them.9 times out of 10 this will be the populist TD.Yes, it's a pain, but that's just the way it is.Sorry.

As I said earlier,if it wasn't for the whip system, nothing would be accomplished in politics in Ireland.It would be a victory for Parish Pump politics every time.

What a crock of **** . . Seriously, with people like you voting we will only ever be stuck in the past with the same imoral politicans we have consistently voted in . .

yeh Im naieve because I believe that if we really want change we can achieve it ? Your just narrow minded if you believe that "this is as good as it gets" is an acceptable argument . .

Seriously, its people like you with your assumptive negative attitude, that prevent real change . . Sure why just dont we all accept this is it . . This is the best we can ever get, so why bother trying to educate people, to encourage a superior political system . . Look how good the whip system has done so far . . yep, decisions have been made quickly . . Lets ignore the fact that the wrong decisions have been made, particularly in extremely important issues . . But the whip system made sure things got through quickly so its a good system . . Lets not even explore alternative ways of doing things . . :rolleyes:

People can change .. If the people in the North can work for and achieve peace, then its not beyond the realms of possibility that we can actually get TD's voted in by an educated electorate . .

Drumpot

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Unfortunately, no. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't demand it, though.

Our politicians - and their self-interested system - have failed us 100%.

I live in hope, though......maybe someday ethics and fairness will take precedence over untamed capitalism and "massive profit at any cost".

Exactly . . when you stop demanding better quality of politician, you will end up with exactly what we have (or even worse) . .

My points are all about progression, about change for the good . . I can only see positives from trying to encourage change for the good . .

I see people say we need a new party but we dont . We just need a new kind of politician. I have considered trying to set up some sort of organization whose goal is to encourage people to ask more questions of their politicians. To discourage voting based on what your man can get for your local GAA club or if they are a "good auld skin".

Of course the cynics would question its intentions/motivations which is why any contributions would be publically posted regularly. . Make everything transparent so it has the publics trust . . It would only support/endorse politicians (not party's) who tow the line of its principles . .

If it has nothing to gain by being popular (money/position of power) it could remain impartial and all about educating our electorate into making more prudent decisions when voting . .

Hey, it might be completely impossible to start up such an organisation but at least Im thinking about alternatives as opposed to simply accepting the way things are . .

trapsagenius

Drumpot wrote: »

What a crock of **** . . Seriously, with people like you voting we will only ever be stuck in the past with the same imoral politicans we have consistently voted in . .

yeh Im naieve because I believe that if we really want change we can achieve it ? Your just narrow minded if you believe that "this is as good as it gets" is an acceptable argument . .

Seriously, its people like you with your assumptive negative attitude, that prevent real change . . Sure why just dont we all accept this is it . . This is the best we can ever get, so why bother trying to educate people, to encourage a superior political system . . Look how good the whip system has done so far . . yep, decisions have been made quickly . . Lets ignore the fact that the wrong decisions have been made, particularly in extremely important issues . . But the whip system made sure things got through quickly so its a good system . . Lets not even explore alternative ways of doing things . . :rolleyes:

People can change .. If the people in the North can work for and achieve peace, then its not beyond the realms of possibility that we can actually get TD's voted in by an educated electorate . .

Why don't you actually deal with the points Danman and I have made, instead of just asserting your argument the whole time?

Anyway...

Drumpot wrote: »

What a crock of **** . . Seriously, with people like you voting we will only ever be stuck in the past with the same imoral politicans we have consistently voted in . .

Who's being pessimistic now?Well we might be stuck with the same politicians, but we mightn't as well.You just never know.But with your proposal it will be far easier for the immoral politicians to get elected.They will be able to promise the sun, moon and stars to everyone and will actually be able to implement these policies-even if it is at the greater expense of the country.Can you not understand this?

Drumpot wrote: »

yeh Im naieve because I believe that if we really want change we can achieve it ? Your just narrow minded if you believe that "this is as good as it gets" is an acceptable argument . .

No your naive because you refuse to accept that your proposals would not work in reality.I never said this was as good as it gets.I even said your proposals would work in an ideal world.But implementing your proposals in reality is a different matter entirely.They would be disastrous, for the reasons I have already stated.

Drumpot wrote: »

Seriously, its people like you with your assumptive negative attitude, that prevent real change . . Sure why just dont we all accept this is it . . This is the best we can ever get, so why bother trying to educate people, to encourage a superior political system

Your proposals don't encourage a "superior political system".They encourage gombeenism and populism.

Drumpot wrote: »

Look how good the whip system has done so far . . yep, decisions have been made quickly . . Lets ignore the fact that the wrong decisions have been made, particularly in extremely important issues . . But the whip system made sure things got through quickly so its a good system . . Lets not even explore alternative ways of doing things . . :rolleyes:

Yes, wrong decisions have been made.I am not disputing this.I am simply saying more wrong decisions would be taken under your proposed non-whip system.

"Extremely important issues"-A good example of these would be the cutbacks in the last election.Do you really believe that without a whip system that a TD looking to get re-elected would have voted for such cuts, even though they were for the greater good of the country, without the whip system?Please actually answer this question.

And btw, I'm all for alternatives-it's just your alternative would not work.You try and change for the better-you don't just change for changes sake.

Drumpot wrote: »

People can change .. If the people in the North can work for and achieve peace, then its not beyond the realms of possibility that we can actually get TD's voted in by an educated electorate . .

Not really a fair comparison.Peace in NI benefits everyone living there.A political system without a whip system in Ireland only benefits local issues and gombeenism.

Liam Byrne

trapsagenius wrote: »

But with your proposal it will be far easier for the immoral politicians to get elected.They will be able to promise the sun, moon and stars to everyone.....

You mean like FF promised zero-tolerance, and The Greens promised to get the U.S. out of Shannon and to save Tara and not to go into bed with FF ?

Jeez, if either had even tried to implement those I'd be happy!

Hazlittle

Yep cause Irelands safer in Gilmores hands?

Sorry whats his stance on the croakpark deal? Private property? Religion? The IRA? Soviet Union?

CoalBucket

Hazlittle wrote: »

Yep cause Irelands safer in Gilmores hands?

Sorry whats his stance on the croakpark deal? Private property? Religion? The IRA? Soviet Union?

The Labour partys position on the croke park deal was not to comment one way or the other because they believed that it is purely up to the union members to inform themselves of the deal and to vote one way or the other.

Private property ? What about private property ?
The Labour party has made a proposal to enhance the rights of families in the current climate. The main crux of the proposal is to allow the family to maintain ownership of the property as long as they can be found to be making a reasonable financial effort to pay the mortgage.

Religion ? I don't see the relevance of religion in relation to the Leader of a political party

The IRA ? The soviet union ? What year did you post ?

Hazlittle

CoalBucket wrote: »

The Labour partys position on the croke park deal was not to comment one way or the other because they believed that it is purely up to the union members to inform themselves of the deal and to vote one way or the other.

Private property ? What about private property ?
The Labour party has made a proposal to enhance the rights of families in the current climate. The main crux of the proposal is to allow the family to maintain ownership of the property as long as they can be found to be making a reasonable financial effort to pay the mortgage.

Religion ? I don't see the relevance of religion in relation to the Leader of a political party

The IRA ? The soviet union ? What year did you post ?

I pay the government to sort out its fiances on my behalf. Gilmore has clearly stated that a private for profit organisation has complete control over my personal finances and I dont get a say in the matter. He's a fasctist plain and simple.

He was in the Workers party which supported the abolition of private property. He supports the undemocratic control of my property by a private for profit organisation which pays for his political campaign.

His party is in favour of securlarising schools. Ivana Backik says its a step towards getting rid of religion altogether.

He previously supported the Soviert Union and the IRA.


The bottom liune is the Eamon Gilmore supports removing me right to have a say in my own life.

SB-08

Kenny is beyond appauling - he reminds me of a character from Father Ted. He comes accross in interviews and in the Dail as being utterly incompetent and considering what a mess FF have made, the fact that FG are actually dropping in polls just proves they need a new leader. Why on earth Richard Bruton isnt the leader is beyond me. He comes accross as an intelligent and capable man, unlike Enda, who is a joke in too many ways to mention. It is amazing he is still the leader - senior members of his own party often struggle to put up a good defence of him as a leader when asked, and often actually say although that Kenny isnt an expert on the economy he is good at delegating tasks as a team leader. :rolleyes:

I am pretty certain if Bruton was made leader they would zoom up in the polls and walk the next election. But there are simply far too many people who cannot take Enda seriously - and by the time the next election is in 2 years, the economy may have actually improved and FF will probably return for a 4th time.:mad:

maynooth_rules

I am fairly confident that there were no threads like this when Biffo was coming into power, when he is easily the worst and most inept Taoiseach we have ever had. A disaster in health and a disaster in finance yet few gave out when he got the position. Enda Kenny gets some unfair flack, but if people don't vote FG simply because of Kenny, then they really need to have a long chat with themselves

CoalBucket

Hazlittle wrote: »

I pay the government to sort out its fiances on my behalf. Gilmore has clearly stated that a private for profit organisation has complete control over my personal finances and I dont get a say in the matter. He's a fasctist plain and simple.

First of all you obviously do not know what a fascist is. You go to great, yet futile, efforts to describe Eamonn Gilmore as some ultra left socialist and then you call him a fascist. :eek:

Where is your link that Gilmore wants some group to control your finances. No quote No Link - No Point!

Who is this private for profit organisation that wants to have complete control your finances ?

Hazlittle wrote: »

He was in the Workers party which supported the abolition of private property. He supports the undemocratic control of my property by a private for profit organisation which pays for his political campaign.

To the best of my knowledge I have yet to see or hear of the Labour Party policy to abolish private property. I find it extremely difficult to believe considering the right to property is enshrigned in the constitution. Lets see one link or one quote to back that up.

Yet again who is this private for profit organisation who wants to control your property ?

Hazlittle wrote: »

His party is in favour of securlarising schools. Ivana Backik says its a step towards getting rid of religion altogether.

The United States and France are just two countries that have securalised school systems. Are they about to ban religion ?

IMO religious education is for the family of the child and not the schools. To abolish religious teaching in schools is not a step to banning religion and to suggest so is completely scare mongering.

Hazlittle wrote: »

He previously supported the Soviert Union and the IRA.

Again lets see a link or quotation or any kind of evidence for this.

I assume you are attempting to create some kind of link between the origin of the workers party from Sinn Fein. With the exception of the greens name one political party in the country not formed from an armed heritage.

Hazlittle wrote: »

The bottom liune is the Eamon Gilmore supports removing me right to have a say in my own life.

A political party whose main mantra is equality in society hardly wants to remove anybodys rights to having a say in your life.

That bit where your arm bends is your elbow, that is your arse you are sitting on. You obviously cannot tell the difference between the two.

edanto

I wouldn't give Hazlittle any attention at all - his/her points are off the wall, unrelated to the topic and unsubstantiated.

Let's get back to the point that the OP was making. As a supporter of FF, he was saying that Kenny was 'dangerous' and unsuitable to be a leader because of these comments in the Dail

Leaders’ Questions (28 Apr 2010)
Enda Kenny: The position, as reported to me, is that Greek exposure to the Irish banks could be of the order of €7 billion. This means the fiscal targets set by the Government are even further out than we had imagined. An EU official commented last week that Ireland would either have to move its targets back or find more savings. On the day of the budget, 9 December 2009, I asked the Taoiseach in the...

If I just heard that quote with no context, I would have considered $7bn to refer to banks like AIB and BOI, but according to Lenihan that's not the case. He was careful to answer very specifically in relation to 'covered banks'

Strategic Investment Bank: Motion (Resumed). (28 Apr 2010)
Brian Lenihan Jnr: I am pleased to have the opportunity to respond to this debate. Before I do so, I refer to Deputy Kenny’s wildly inaccurate claim this morning that Irish banks were exposed to some €7 billion of Greek debt. For the record, the total exposure of the covered banks to Greek sovereign debt is negligible, less than €40 million. It really is not in the interests of this economy - nor does..

And the Indo article above referred to 'Irish headquartered banks'

According to data sourced from the Bank of International Settlements (BIS), Irish headquartered banks had total claims on the Greek economy of $8.5bn (€6.3bn) in the final quarter of last year.

So, there is €6.3bn of Greek bonds connected to banks with Irish headquarters, but they are not necessarily the banks covered by the guarantee.

It seems like we don't know the answer yet.

But in terms of endangering our national wealth, I would consider Lenihan a far worse offender than Kenny. This is what Lenihan said in November 2008:

“We are not rushing into the banks without knowing precisely what the position is in those banks”

Using that as an example of Lenihans incredible ability to sound financially competent, but later to be proved wrong, I wouldn't trust his €40m estimate.

What do you think skearon?

CoalBucket

[PHP]On today’s RTE radio News at One, Sean Whelan reported that Irish banks have exposure of about €7 billion to Greek debt, that restructuring of Greek sovereign debt could lead to a fifty percent write-down of Greek debt and that because the Irish government are supporting the banks, the contribution of €450 million by the Irish government to the Greek bailout needed to be placed against the possibility of a potential loss of €3.5 billion for the banks.[/PHP]

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/category/banking-crisis/

I don't supply enda with his figures but I can only assume that this is where the figures have come from.

skearon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Enda Kenny might be poor, but he's worth a million of O'Dea

Kenny isn't worth a single O'Dea, let alone a million! Remember it was FG dirty tricks that got Boyle to issue his famous tweet, they then tried the same game with Sargent, but failed

skearon

CoalBucket wrote: »

The Labour partys position on the croke park deal was not to comment one way or the other because they believed that it is purely up to the union members to inform themselves of the deal and to vote one way or the other.

Labour's position is not to have a position, they want to bribe public servants, yet wont say where the money is coming from.

I've never known Gilmore to refrain from commenting before on any matter! His excuse is utterly pathetic and proves again he wants to speak out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, spouting populist nonsense to the widest audience possible.

Clearly a rejection of the Croke Park deal will cause our bond spread to increase rapidly, his silence is not acceptable and is damaging the national interest.

Hazlittle

CoalBucket wrote: »

First of all you obviously do not know what a fascist is. You go to great, yet futile, efforts to describe Eamonn Gilmore as some ultra left socialist and then you call him a fascist. :eek:

Where is your link that Gilmore wants some group to control your finances. No quote No Link - No Point!

Who is this private for profit organisation that wants to have complete control your finances ?




To the best of my knowledge I have yet to see or hear of the Labour Party policy to abolish private property. I find it extremely difficult to believe considering the right to property is enshrigned in the constitution. Lets see one link or one quote to back that up.

Yet again who is this private for profit organisation who wants to control your property ?



The United States and France are just two countries that have securalised school systems. Are they about to ban religion ?

IMO religious education is for the family of the child and not the schools. To abolish religious teaching in schools is not a step to banning religion and to suggest so is completely scare mongering.



Again lets see a link or quotation or any kind of evidence for this.

I assume you are attempting to create some kind of link between the origin of the workers party from Sinn Fein. With the exception of the greens name one political party in the country not formed from an armed heritage.




A political party whose main mantra is equality in society hardly wants to remove anybodys rights to having a say in your life.

That bit where your arm bends is your elbow, that is your arse you are sitting on. You obviously cannot tell the difference between the two.

A previous poster has mentioned his stance on the unions. He was a member of the Workers party whom were connected with the OIRA and supported the Soviet Union. They officially supported communism which is by Marxs definition is the abolition of private property.

Go back and watch Labour videos on religion in schools. They are planning on get rid of religion in total. Thats there stated, filmed and promoted message.

If you're interested I put socialism and fascism in the same bracket.

skearon wrote: »

Kenny isn't worth a single O'Dea, let alone a million! Remember it was FG dirty tricks that got Boyle to issue his famous tweet, they then tried the same game with Sargent, but failed

Fine Gaels evil pot to get rid of corrupt politicians? Heavens no!

Colonel Sanders

danman wrote: »

You must really think a lot of Bertie if you think he was so influencial to the electorate.

I think Aherne is the lowest form of animal life but for some reason masses of the electorate adored him

Just look at those infuriating 'Bertie's Team' posters that were hanging the length and breath of the country in the run up to the 2007 GE for proof that FF tried to exploit this unexplainable adoration

Liam Byrne

skearon wrote: »

Kenny isn't worth a single O'Dea, let alone a million! Remember it was FG dirty tricks that got Boyle to issue his famous tweet, they then tried the same game with Sargent, but failed

I'll assume that's your genuine opinion, so in the spirit of the discussion I'll try to respect it.

But we obviously live in different universes and expect different things from our politicians.

So what if FG got Boyle to tweet ? And it would say a lot about Boyle if he was easily swayed to do it.

By doing this, FG laid down a benchmark to say "no more" to the type of self-serving excuse-for-politics that goes on within FF.

So if you are correct, then I'll move my applause away from Boyle for having cop-on and some ethics, and give it to FG instead......and all because of your post!

trapsagenius

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I am fairly confident that there were no threads like this when Biffo was coming into power, when he is easily the worst and most inept Taoiseach we have ever had. A disaster in health and a disaster in finance yet few gave out when he got the position.

First of all Cowen isn't finished yet and it is only when he is finished that we can make a proper call on his tenure in office.That said, it's unlikely he'll go down well in history but we still must wait and see.And he's hardly "easily" the worst.There has been a few of very bad Taoisigh.

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Enda Kenny gets some unfair flack, but if people don't vote FG simply because of Kenny, then they really need to have a long chat with themselves

Hardly unfair.He just isn't up to the job of being leader of the opposition, and certainly not Taoiseach. And I could just as easily say that if people do vote for FG in spite of Kenny, then they really need to have a long chat with themselves.

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I think Aherne is the lowest form of animal life but for some reason masses of the electorate adored him

Ah, come on now!

skearon

edanto wrote: »

I wouldn't give Hazlittle any attention at all - his/her points are off the wall, unrelated to the topic and unsubstantiated.

Let's get back to the point that the OP was making. As a supporter of FF, he was saying that Kenny was 'dangerous' and unsuitable to be a leader because of these comments in the Dail

Leaders’ Questions (28 Apr 2010)
Enda Kenny: The position, as reported to me, is that Greek exposure to the Irish banks could be of the order of €7 billion. This means the fiscal targets set by the Government are even further out than we had imagined. An EU official commented last week that Ireland would either have to move its targets back or find more savings. On the day of the budget, 9 December 2009, I asked the Taoiseach in the...

If I just heard that quote with no context, I would have considered $7bn to refer to banks like AIB and BOI, but according to Lenihan that's not the case. He was careful to answer very specifically in relation to 'covered banks'

Strategic Investment Bank: Motion (Resumed). (28 Apr 2010)
Brian Lenihan Jnr: I am pleased to have the opportunity to respond to this debate. Before I do so, I refer to Deputy Kenny’s wildly inaccurate claim this morning that Irish banks were exposed to some €7 billion of Greek debt. For the record, the total exposure of the covered banks to Greek sovereign debt is negligible, less than €40 million. It really is not in the interests of this economy - nor does..

And the Indo article above referred to 'Irish headquartered banks'

According to data sourced from the Bank of International Settlements (BIS), Irish headquartered banks had total claims on the Greek economy of $8.5bn (€6.3bn) in the final quarter of last year.

So, there is €6.3bn of Greek bonds connected to banks with Irish headquarters, but they are not necessarily the banks covered by the guarantee.

It seems like we don't know the answer yet.

But in terms of endangering our national wealth, I would consider Lenihan a far worse offender than Kenny. This is what Lenihan said in November 2008:

“We are not rushing into the banks without knowing precisely what the position is in those banks”

Using that as an example of Lenihans incredible ability to sound financially competent, but later to be proved wrong, I wouldn't trust his €40m estimate.

What do you think skearon?

Lenihan is 100% correct

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6291

skearon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'll assume that's your genuine opinion, so in the spirit of the discussion I'll try to respect it.

But we obviously live in different universes and expect different things from our politicians.

So what if FG got Boyle to tweet ? And it would say a lot about Boyle if he was easily swayed to do it.

By doing this, FG laid down a benchmark to say "no more" to the type of self-serving excuse-for-politics that goes on within FF.

So if you are correct, then I'll move my applause away from Boyle for having cop-on and some ethics, and give it to FG instead......and all because of your post!

Thank you

FG deliberately mislead the political correspondents in the Dail, Boyle believed these lies and the rest is history. In the fullness of time I'm sure the real truth will emerge.

nuac

Enda Kenny took over leadership of a badly beaten party in 2002 and in 2007 brought them to within a whisker of government.

Is the criticism because he is not a D4 type?

Liam Byrne

skearon wrote: »

Thank you

FG deliberately mislead the political correspondents in the Dail, Boyle believed these lies and the rest is history. In the fullness of time I'm sure the real truth will emerge.

Methinks you are shooting the messenger.

Do you or do you not think that what O'Dea got up to is despicable and shows him as unfit for office ?

And if so, how can you possibly think O'Dea is a million times better than Kenny ?

Liam Byrne

skearon wrote: »

Lenihan is 100% correct

I think the key quote was

“We are not rushing into the banks without knowing precisely what the position is in those banks”

That is precisely what he did, and we are paying the price, with the bill for this disgraceful decision rising by the day. :mad:

galwayrush

skearon wrote: »

Lenihan is 100% correct

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6291

Yep, 100% correct every time he changes his mind.:rolleyes:
He sure got Anglo wrong.:mad:What an expensive cock up that will turn out to be.

CoalBucket

skearon wrote: »

Labour's position is not to have a position, they want to bribe public servants, yet wont say where the money is coming from.

I've never known Gilmore to refrain from commenting before on any matter! His excuse is utterly pathetic and proves again he wants to speak out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, spouting populist nonsense to the widest audience possible.

Clearly a rejection of the Croke Park deal will cause our bond spread to increase rapidly, his silence is not acceptable and is damaging the national interest.

When the governement was entering into previous payment agreements with the unions, did political parties or their leaders tell the unions which way to vote?

Are the union members entitled to form their own opinion on a vote they have to cast which will affect them directly ?

What FF and their blinded supporters need to understand is the union members have the right to make up their own minds and not be instructed what the national interest is. The union members are not sheep who need to be directed or bullied into an agreement.

If FF wanted to serve the national interest they would have called a general election 12 months ago before they decided to bail out Anglo and the other corrupt banks.

Eamonn Gilmores position is the union members should be allowed to form their own opinion and be allowed to vote as they see fit, whether you or FF think that is acceptable. In fact it's a bit rich for FF to be telling any party what is acceptable.

Whether the union members accept or reject the Croke Park agreement is entirely up to the union members. That is why it is called an agreement.

CoalBucket

Hazlittle wrote: »

A previous poster has mentioned his stance on the unions. He was a member of the Workers party whom were connected with the OIRA and supported the Soviet Union. They officially supported communism which is by Marxs definition is the abolition of private property.

Go back and watch Labour videos on religion in schools. They are planning on get rid of religion in total. Thats there stated, filmed and promoted message.
If you're interested I put socialism and fascism in the same bracket.
Fine Gaels evil pot to get rid of corrupt politicians? Heavens no!

Well no having seen what someone else said !! Thw workers party were originally split from Sinn Fein. So what ! Sinn Fein are from an armed background. So are FF, Fine Gael and the Labour Party. Your attempt to link Eamonn Gilmore is pathetic and frivilous. Again I'll ask If you have any shread of proof, link or quotation then lets see it.

You don't know what the difference is between communism and socialism. The Labour party is not a marxist or communist party. This is not China !!

As stated secularism in schools does not mean a removal of religion from society. Just cause you say so doen't make it so. Lets see a quote, reference,document, link, article, audio, video, sketch or anything to back up this ludicrous claim.

You also don't know the difference between fascism and socialism.

You are so confused in your ideas it's almost funny if it wasn't dangerously ignorant.

Colonel Sanders

trapsagenius wrote: »

Ah, come on now!

I stand by my comment

Words can't describe the contempt I have for this conniving weasel

duffflash

northwest100 wrote: »

Yes, I'm in favour of good auld Bertie Ahern being reappointed leader of the country..he'll get us out of this mess we're in, won't he?
He's an economic genius..

Indeed and he is, but ya wouldn’t wanta be cribbing and moaning to him about how he’s doing things.
He’d have ya killed and then say it was suicide!!:pac::pac:;)

anymore

It is worth noting that Useless Enda has now apparently done a U Turn on FG's previous attitude to the EU. The EU now, according to FG, wants to undermine our democracy and interfere with our tax system - didnt the anti Lisbon people keep saying that and FG kept saying " Oh no they wont " ?

CoalBucket

anymore wrote: »

It is worth noting that Useless Enda has now apparently done a U Turn on FG's previous attitude to the EU. The EU now, according to FG, wants to undermine our democracy and interfere with our tax system - didnt the anti Lisbon people keep saying that and FG kept saying " Oh no they wont " ?

Where exactly was this said. Any link ?

Is it that the budget has to be pre-approved by the EU.
According to the government if you question this you are an EU sceptic.
Ironic coming from FF who wouldn't have the EU commission dictate a budget to us when Charlie McCreevy was Minister for Finance.

Is it wrong to question whether the EU in this pre-approval maybe able to alter our low corporation tax ?

Is it not the government who have performed the u-turn and it is the opposition parties that are questioning this ?

I'm getting sick of the attempted spin from the government and their supporters who have placed the country on the brink of financial abyss to try and shift the attention to the opposition each and everytime they F%£k up.

Spiritoftheseventies

skearon wrote: »

Enda Kenny again proved how incapable he is to run the country by stating, in the Dáil yesterday, that Irish banks held €7 billion in Greek bonds, a figure that would have had huge implications for their tier one capital requirements as well as for the cost of Irish borrowing, when the actual figure was a mere €40 million.

Such mistakes prove how inept Kenny is, he claims he is able to run the country, however I wouldnt trust his to run a sweet shop!

This will be the FF ploy in next election campaign. They will say Kenny will do this to the country and that to the country while completely ignoring what they have themselves have done to the country

anymore

CoalBucket wrote: »

Where exactly was this said. Any link ?

Is it that the budget has to be pre-approved by the EU.
According to the government if you question this you are an EU sceptic.
Ironic coming from FF who wouldn't have the EU commission dictate a budget to us when Charlie McCreevy was Minister for Finance.

Is it wrong to question whether the EU in this pre-approval maybe able to alter our low corporation tax ?

Is it not the government who have performed the u-turn and it is the opposition parties that are questioning this ?

I'm getting sick of the attempted spin from the government and their supporters who have placed the country on the brink of financial abyss to try and shift the attention to the opposition each and everytime they F%£k up.

I voted for FG last election, but even I can see that Kenny is a complete waste of space ! Anyone politician with a modicum of ability could have destroyed Ahern before the last election. The only possible way kenny can get elected is to have one of the worst recessions in history ruin our economy and to have 400,000 + unemployed.
Get as sick as you like, but it is not half as sick as many of us feel when we see kenny do his ' Muppet ' act.

CoalBucket

anymore wrote: »

I voted for FG last election, but even I can see that Kenny is a complete waste of space ! Anyone politician with a modicum of ability could have destroyed Ahern before the last election. The only possible way kenny can get elected is to have one of the worst recessions in history ruin our economy and to have 400,000 + unemployed.
Get as sick as you like, but it is not half as sick as many of us feel when we see kenny do his ' Muppet ' act.

What has that got to do with your original point that FG have turned against the EU or have you just decided to give up on that now and go with the clearly thought out "Enda is a muppet" arguement ?

Liam Byrne

anymore wrote: »

The only possible way kenny can get elected is to have one of the worst recessions in history ruin our economy and to have 400,000 + unemployed.

We're halfway there, so, thanks to FF.....

anymore

CoalBucket wrote: »

What has that got to do with your original point that FG have turned against the EU or have you just decided to give up on that now and go with the clearly thought out "Enda is a muppet" arguement ?

Enda is a muppet regardless of the topic. This man held on to a permanent teaching post for twenty years whilst he was working full time as a TD and drawing a Ministers pension . He is not fTr to hold any public post.

anymore

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We're halfway there, so, thanks to FF.....

The question is, who will be pulling the muppet's strings ?

Liam Byrne

anymore wrote: »

The question is, who will be pulling the muppet's strings ?

No - the question is who is pulling the current gang of muppet's strings.

Mr. Presentable

Interesting how the only input the Enda fanboys have is to diss everyone else. Lads, if you want to defend him you need to offer something more than "Bertie did this, Biffo did that".

I have never been a FF voter, but the current FG leadership does nothing to persuade me to support them either.

Raiser

anymore wrote: »

Enda is a muppet regardless of the topic. This man held on to a permanent teaching post for twenty years whilst he was working full time as a TD and drawing a Ministers pension . He is not fTr to hold any public post.

No wonder he is happy to play the perpetual Loser role so - Sitting there reciting the catch cries of Clowns while effectively doing nothing of substance with his life except earn our money on technicalities.

Liam Byrne

nipplenuts wrote: »

Interesting how the only input the Enda fanboys have is to diss everyone else. Lads, if you want to defend him you need to offer something more than "Bertie did this, Biffo did that".

I have never been a FF voter, but the current FG leadership does nothing to persuade me to support them either.

You have a point, but unfortunately there is feck-all talent that stands out in the current set of options.

Richard Bruton might well be a stronger performer, but Kenny is the one who pulled the party back together.

Unfortunately, the choices at the moment aren't about someone persuading you to support them; they're about who has done the least to persuade you NOT to support them.

And that's from a non "Enda fanboy" by the way.....it's from someone who simply wants people to choose the best of a bad lot.....sad, I know, but it's the best we have at the moment, and FF have set the bar very, very low.

EDIT : "inspiring" - no. But "dangerous and unsuitable for office" ? Comparisons are bound to arise when a thread is given that title, and there were few more "dangerous and unsuitable" than Haughey, Ahern, Lawlor & Burke, not to mention O'Dea, O'Donoghue, Coughlan, Lowry, Cowen & Lenihan.

anymore

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No - the question is who is pulling the current gang of muppet's strings.

Let me ask you, what did John Bruton do when informed of attempts at bribery?
What did Fg do ?

Aidric

nipplenuts wrote: »

Interesting how the only input the Enda fanboys have is to diss everyone else. Lads, if you want to defend him you need to offer something more than "Bertie did this, Biffo did that".

Nail on the head. The OP was looking to get feedback on the performance of Kenny yet all he has got is a FF bashfest. The type of tired, inward looking, bickering centred, political point scoring analysis that quite frankly turns a lot of people off politics in this country.

anymore

Aidric wrote: »

Nail on the head. The OP was looking to get feedback on the performance of Kenny yet all he has got is a FF bashfest. The type of tired, inward looking, bickering centred, political point scoring analysis that quite frankly turns a lot of people off politics in this country.

The week after Mary O Rourke called kenny a tratior for criticicising Ahern when he was out of the country, Kenny was pictured in the paper all smiling at an exhibition of Padraig Flynns paintings and was also on radio speaking warmly about " My colleague Beverly".
If I didnt know better I'd say he was an FF plant !

CoalBucket

anymore wrote: »

Enda is a muppet regardless of the topic. This man held on to a permanent teaching post for twenty years whilst he was working full time as a TD and drawing a Ministers pension . He is not fTr to hold any public post.

That is why he is a muppet ?

Michael Martin, Batt O'Keefe to name 2 have both held on to their teaching posts and have both claimed ministerial pensions. Thats just two, and there are lots of them.

Are they muppets or fit to hold public office ?

Raiser

CoalBucket wrote: »

That is why he is a muppet ?

Michael Martin, Batt O'Keefe to name 2 have both held on to their teaching posts and have both claimed ministerial pensions. Thats just two, and there are lots of them.

Are they muppets or fit to hold public office ?

Was that a question hoping for clarification or a query on mutual exclusion?

- Is it not just citing two other instances of advanced Muppetry?