Enda Kenny - Dangerous and Unsuitable for Office

CoalBucket

Raiser wrote: »

Was that a question hoping for clarification or a query on mutual exclusion?

- Is it not just citing two other instances of advanced Muppetry?

(a) Clarification
(b) Yes it is

Admittedly though I don't think Enda Kenny is a muppet. He comes across as neutral to me, I don't like him and I don't dislike him.

I would like someone to explain to me why they think he is a muppet instead of just saying he is one.

IMO I don't think the reasons given are enough to label him a muppet. I am open to persuasion though.

On the other hand Martin and O'Keeffe are two prime examples of muppets. I don't think posters will be queing up to query reasons for that though

Raiser

CoalBucket wrote: »

I would like someone to explain to me why they think he is a muppet instead of just saying he is one.

Enda Kenny could serve the State by either:

A) Being a Teacher.
Being a Politician.

At the moment he is just wasting our money while not bothering to be either one or the other.

- If you want one qualifying statement as to why he is not a valid, worthy and able Politician then refer back to references to him not getting on with it and wiping the floor with the 'Rat in an Anorak' when Bertie was able to simultaneously sit in the Dock in Tribunals and run rings around Inda the Caricature.

CoalBucket

Raiser wrote: »

Enda Kenny could serve the State by either:

A) Being a Teacher.
Being a Politician.

At the moment he is just wasting our money while not bothering to be either one or the other.

- If you want one qualifying statement as to why he is not a valid, worthy and able Politician then refer back to references to him not getting on with it and wiping the floor with the 'Rat in an Anorak' when Bertie was able to simultaneously sit in the Dock in Tribunals and run rings around Inda the Caricature.

Enda Kenny is not in receipt of a teachers salary.
http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/minister-quits-his-teaching-post-after-22-years-in-dail-1624942.html

Bertie did not appear at the Mahon Tribunal until September 2007. The election was held months earlier.

In september 07 Kenny called a vote of no confidence in Bertie. Bertie survived that vote due to support from The Greens, The PDs and the independents (Healy Rae, Lowry, etc.) Can Kenny be blamed for this ?

The allegations started in 2006 and despite that opinion polls at the time showed a sharp rise in support for Bertie at the time.

The Fianna Fail party and supporters ran with the party line that this would be explained at the Tribunal and that the issue could not be discussed as it would jepordise the work of the tribunal.

The public still high on the Celtic tiger were to blame for the election of FF at the last election. The dogs in the street knew that he had "Financial irregularities" but the electorate still decided to elect him and his party.

It was not that Kenny or his party or the press for that matter failed to raise the issues of Berties corruption. The electorate decided to ignore it.

Like I said previously I am neutral on Enda Kenny. However Kenny gets an undeserved rep. As an opposition leader he has been average, not awe inspiring but not a disaster either IMO.

Liam Byrne

Aidric wrote: »

Nail on the head. The OP was looking to get feedback on the performance of Kenny yet all he has got is a FF bashfest. The type of tired, inward looking, bickering centred, political point scoring analysis that quite frankly turns a lot of people off politics in this country.

Given the thread title, I'd say the OP was aiming for a Kenny bashfest. "Dangerous and unfit for office" is NOT an accurate description.

And the fact of the matter is that people in falling-apart glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

Yes, Kenny is weak. No argument. No "fanboy" here.

But - aside from Gilmore, who would be questionable given the links to unions - Kenny is the best we've got.

efb

The media had Fine Gael wrote off after the 2002.

Enda Kenny took the party from the grass roots and won the most seats at the next European Election (while FF were still riding high in the polls) and gained 20 seats for FG in the 2007 election.

Im not a FGer but was at one of Enda Kenny's FG think tanks with a friend post the '02 decimation and I was impressed with what I saw.

I think a lot of the criticism for Enda Kenny is unfair and unwarranted, the modern slick media perhaps see him as a throwback to more Rural Traditional ways, but I believe the man has done a lot for FG.

If some of his policies were a little less Christian Democrat and his party were not so closely aligned to Union-Friendly Labour, I'd consider an FG vote next time around.

anymore

The reality is that quite a lot of the time it is regarded as an achievement if Kenny completes an interview without putting a foot in it ! That is how low the expectations are from this man.
He should ahve destroyed Ahern over the period of the Mahon tribunal hearings and both Rabbitte and Gilmore in their turns have left him looking inept and slow witted. His big advatage was supposed to be his ' organising skills'. Well the george lee fiasco put his organising skills into perspective as did his unilateral announcement regarding the aboilishment of the Seante - which will never happen.
Lucinda Crieghtion has reglarily made him look as if he has no control of his party; what would the opposition do if he were Taoiseach.
As for re -organising FG, Seamus Brennan did the same job for FF when he was a young TD and was never elected Leader.

Liam Byrne

anymore wrote: »

The reality is that quite a lot of the time it is regarded as an achievement if Kenny completes an interview without putting a foot in it ! That is how low the expectations are from this man.

So - given that we're not allowed to make the obvious comparison and contrast with Cowen's waffle and Bart Simpson style avoidance last week - what would you suggest ?

I personally couldn't give a crap about someone "putting their foot in it" in a soundbyte, as long as they can do their job and aren't corrupt.

Am I different ? Obviously. I look at someone's overall convictions rather than their snappy soundbytes and "clever" put-downs.

I - despite disagreeing with a lot of Michael McDowell's ideas - would have voted for him, because himself and Pat Rabbitte struck me as the only politicians who stood by their convictions.

And - as a result - McDowell regularly appeared to "put his foot in it", saying things that pissed some people off, including me.

But it was only his eventual stance on Ahern that made him completely unacceptable.

anymore

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So - given that we're not allowed to make the obvious comparison and contrast with Cowen's waffle and Bart Simpson style avoidance last week - what would you suggest ?

I personally couldn't give a crap about someone "putting their foot in it" in a soundbyte, as long as they can do their job and aren't corrupt.

Am I different ? Obviously. I look at someone's overall convictions rather than their snappy soundbytes and "clever" put-downs.

I - despite disagreeing with a lot of Michael McDowell's ideas - would have voted for him, because himself and Pat Rabbitte struck me as the only politicians who stood by their convictions.

And - as a result - McDowell regularly appeared to "put his foot in it", saying things that pissed some people off, including me.

But it was only his eventual stance on Ahern that made him completely unacceptable.

There is a difference between putting your foot in it and being stupid !
I too admired McDowell for his forthrightness - his remarks about many refugees stories being guff or nonsense was perfectly right and his attempts to introduce cafe style licences was the voice of sanity - which is why it was rejected so focribly.
Kenny is where he is because the people of ability in FG either didnt have the backbone to stand or the FG membership is simply inept and prefers ineptness in thier leader - I have had some correspondence from FG Councillors TDs which tend to vouch for thier ineptness or otherwise.
Again I repeat, Kenny's holding on to a permanent teachers position for twenty or so years whilst working as a full time TD and also drawing a Minister's pension is utterly immoral from my point of view. I may vote for a FG candidate at the next election, as I did at the last, but i would never vote for a Teacher/Politican such as Kenny, martin Hannafin etc.
They are all the same, there is no difference in ethics.

Liam Byrne

anymore wrote: »

They are all the same, there is no difference in ethics.

I wouldn't agree with you on this, although I would admit that ethics and fairness don't seem to be high priorities of anyone in the Dáil.

So again, I'll ask. What do you suggest ?

Do we vote for FF, with their record of corruption and incompetence ?
Do we vote for Labour, with Gilmore definitely seeming strong, but with their ties to unions ?
Do we vote for independents, with the resulting dilution of influence ?
Or do we vote FG, who seem to be the best of a bad lot ?

I've stated my reasons for replying to the thread - which is purely an objection to the mud-slinging exaggerations in the title - but what do you think is the best alternative that we have ?

If Labour weren't so tied to the unions, I think Gilmore would blow Kenny out of the water; but I still wouldn't view Kenny as "dangerous and unsuitable for office".

anymore

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with you on this, although I would admit that ethics and fairness don't seem to be high priorities of anyone in the Dáil.

So again, I'll ask. What do you suggest ?

Do we vote for FF, with their record of corruption and incompetence ?
Do we vote for Labour, with Gilmore definitely seeming strong, but with their ties to unions ?
Do we vote for independents, with the resulting dilution of influence ?
Or do we vote FG, who seem to be the best of a bad lot ?

I've stated my reasons for replying to the thread - which is purely an objection to the mud-slinging exaggerations in the title - but what do you think is the best alternative that we have ?

If Labour weren't so tied to the unions, I think Gilmore would blow Kenny out of the water; but I still wouldn't view Kenny as "dangerous and unsuitable for office".

Well I mainly agree with you. I have always included Labour candidates somewhere in my lsit of preferences but no more. Labour is now the political wing of the Public Sector Unions.. Unfortunately some in FG seem also to be the mouth pieces of the PS - one of my own potential FG candidates Senator Buttimer circulated a newsletter that was a baltant invatation to PS voters/pensioners that he would take care of them - he is a teacher of course, so that rules him out as far as my vote is concerned. In fact i will not vote for any candidate who is a PS worker of any kind regardless of party.
If they were still in existence I would have to consider voting PDs, but of course Harney's Quid pro Quo to FF was to kill off the PD party. Harney is at heart not right wing at all ! That is one of the funny things about irish politics. What jobs did her husband hold ?
The title may be accurate in the sense that dithering, and Kenny is a ditherer, may be the most dangerous course of all. He has already said he will try to ensure the salaries of ' the lower paid' PS workers will be pushed upwards - Socialism is alive and well !
The truth is there is no party that is interetsed in people like myself, many of us feel we have been disenfranchised and we have no powerful vested group to lobby for us. perhaps we should seek refugee status in some other country ?

Liam Byrne

anymore wrote: »

If they were still in existence I would have to consider voting PDs

We're pretty different, so, because the PDs took privatisation to the extreme and in doing so made basic services more costly and less customer-focussed.

I'd have voted for them when O'Malley was at the helm, but since then they got carried away and were counter-productive, profit-oriented.

anymore wrote: »

The title may be accurate in the sense that dithering, and Kenny is a ditherer, may be the most dangerous course of all.

Dithering can occasionally be, but I doubt that it's more dangerous than the crap that FF have put us through.

One could also argue that FF dither on stuff that suits them (e.g. we're only NOW starting to slow down the recession, while the bank guarantee - including Anglo - was done on the spot).

anymore wrote: »

He has already said he will try to ensure the salaries of ' the lower paid' PS workers will be pushed upwards - Socialism is alive and well !

Nothing wrong with a basic amount of socialism.....especially given how capitalism and "profit at all costs" has obviously failed us.

anymore wrote: »

The truth is there is no party that is interetsed in people like myself, many of us feel we have been disenfranchised and we have no powerful vested group to lobby for us.

Define "us", though ? You and I are obviously significantly different, and yet that last sentence could have come from my mouth.

anymore

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We're pretty different, so, because the PDs took privatisation to the extreme and in doing so made basic services more costly and less customer-focussed.

I'd have voted for them when O'Malley was at the helm, but since then they got carried away and were counter-productive, profit-oriented.



Dithering can occasionally be, but I doubt that it's more dangerous than the crap that FF have put us through.

One could also argue that FF dither on stuff that suits them (e.g. we're only NOW starting to slow down the recession, while the bank guarantee - including Anglo - was done on the spot).



Nothing wrong with a basic amount of socialism.....especially given how capitalism and "profit at all costs" has obviously failed us.



Define "us", though ? You and I are obviously significantly different, and yet that last sentence could have come from my mouth.

'Us' is proabably in the lower middle section of what is the middle classes - people I would regard as real ' working class' who qualify for very little in the way of benefits ( and if they have been self employed qualify for none at all) people who have subsidised the ' vulnerable , ie the work shy, ETC.

The kind of people who take an active interest in the education of their kids who will make financial sacrifices to send them extra classes to make up for the deficincies of Irleand's ' First Class' education system and who are then villified in the media for exploiting ' less well off kids, i.e the children of chain smoking boozing foreign holiday parents who cant bother thier arses taking an interest in eduaction,
the kind of people who will, if they can afford it after paying for their mortgages and the extra housing costs charged for Social and Affordable Housing, after having scrimped and saved for the house deposits, also pay for Health Insurance and who are then villified by the media for exploiting and denying the aforementioned ' vulnerable' who can afford € 3k/5k a year for ciagarettes but who 'cant afford' health insurance.

That is roughly the kind of people I mean by 'us'.

nuac

Raiser, re your comment on 29.4.10 that Enda kenny was responsible for FG failure in the 2007 GE - How can you claim that. In the run up to that election he brought FG back from the dead.

anymore

nuac wrote: »

Raiser, re your comment on 29.4.10 that Enda kenny was responsible for FG failure in the 2007 GE - How can you claim that. In the run up to that election he brought FG back from the dead.

The body Enda Kenny brought back to live in the run up to the '7 GE was Bertie Ahern; Ahern was politically dead until Kenny showed how inept he was and support swung back to Ahern

Again and again, FG has hidden Kenny away when they have been giving economic presentations - how embarrasing is that ?

In Cork prior to Council Kenny, on a local radio show, was so gushing about FF's Deirdre Forde moving to FG,that he couldnt not give the name of one of FG'd other Council candidates !
And of course Cork lost a FG MEP when Kenny parachuted his wifes relation into the Munster constituency....and shall we mention George Lee ?