Dole Drug Test?

Wudyaquit

landsleaving wrote: »

No, it's international.

Egg on my face.

The idea of the thread's stupid imo.
Massively costly, and what happens those who do smoke a joint and are tested positive? They lose their benefits and are out on the streets?
People are always going to take drugs, particularly if they've fook all else to do all day, so you'd be solving a non-existent problem and be replacing it with mass homelessness and increased crime

questioner

they shouldnt be allowed spend their money on shiny new tracksuits and hoodies either. plenty of good onion sacks going to waste IMHO.

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You sir have no idea of what you are talking about.

I grew up on social welfare and it is no picnic. Career choice my ass. When I was a kid I got one pair of shoes a year and thought it was Christmas when I got them.

Education got me out of that cycle but those that are on the dole long term in the main are the most marginalised segment of society.

Please refer to my last post regarding stupid bigotry towards social welfare.

I suggest you live on 196 euro a week for 6 months. Then try raising kids on precious little more. There's a reason why long term unemployed have a higher drug use. They have more to escape from, for as well as being marginalised they are ostracised aswell.

Just because you hold views on a matter doesn't make you an expert on it. Unless you have first hand experience of the dole I suggest you refrain from spitting vitriol things you don't understand. You just look foolish.

I know exactly what I'm talking about - I grew up in a poor, working class area, where a lot of people didn't want to work or educate themselves. They had choices & opportunities for work or education, but simply didn't want them.

Not everyone on the dole is a layabout - there are families who have little choice & are struggling. There are ex-professionals who have no choice & are struggling, but you seriously cannot deny that there are also a lot of people who are long term dolites who simply chose not to work, even when there were jobs.

PCPhoto

questioner wrote: »

they shouldnt be allowed spend their money on shiny new tracksuits and hoodies either. plenty of good onion sacks going to waste IMHO.

they dont spend their money on trackies and hoodies... they spend YOUR money on them !!!

in fairness - the dole system in this country is abused by a relatively small number of people - the question is does the government recognise there is flaws in the system or are they as blind as they were when the bankers were using "loopholes" in the law.

L1011

Drug testing isn't free. Simple piss-strips aren't all that reliable either.

Unworkable for 200 quid a week; absolutely unworkable if they reduce the payments as I'd expect them to in December.

Dudess

Must say, I don't personally know any "professional dole claimers" yet according to many on AH, you can't cross the street without bumping into at least one...

bluto63

I don't agree with drug tests at all, so no I don't agree with them for the dole

starbelgrade

Dudess wrote: »

Must say, I don't personally know any "professional dole claimers" yet according to many on AH, you can't cross the street without bumping into at least one...

You must try leaving the suburbs some day.

Mr. Incognito

I know exactly what I'm talking about - I grew up in a poor, working class area, where a lot of people didn't want to work or educate themselves. They had choices & opportunities for work or education, but simply didn't want them.

Not everyone on the dole is a layabout - there are families who have little choice & are struggling. There are ex-professionals who have no choice & are struggling, but you seriously cannot deny that there are also a lot of people who are long term dolites who simply chose not to work, even when there were jobs.

I actually have a tough time believe you. Anyone that grew up in a working class neighbourhood simply would not hold those views.

This is more of blaming the poor for being poor.

Without going into the finer points of socio economics it's a fact that the poorer you are the higher the barrier to higher education and professions. Dole is a vicious cycle. Long term unemployment can lead to depression, substance abuse and these are the kind of parents that these kids have to put up with so they are caught in a poverty trap. The only way to overcome these societal scourge is resources is deprived areas so that we can educate these kids in young offenders institutes. Did you know the Irish Government has promised to provide decent residential care for young offenders since 1997, was slapped on the wrist by the Supreme Court in 2002 for not having done so and then spent 4 million on legal fees to fight this order rather than open the schemes as promised.

Anyone who thinks that there is an easy out for these people has no first hand experience of it. None.

I don't blame you for your views but I pity your ignorance and the ignorance of others that leads to bigoted rants and threads like these.

rowanh

That is one of the most short sited ideas i have come across..

questioner

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You sir have no idea of what you are talking about.
When I was a kid I got one pair of shoes a year and thought it was Christmas when I got them.

frank McCourt how are ya?

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Education got me out of that cycle but those that are on the dolein the middle classes long term in the main are the most marginalised taken advantage of segment of society.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I suggest you live on 196 euro a week for 6 months. Then try raising kids on precious little more.

I suggest not having kids if you cant afford to provide them with a decent upbringing. Or have you muddied the concepts of entitlement and responsibility completely? Ever wonder why the lower classes have more kids than the upper classes? or why there's a higher incidence of unmarried mothers? is it becuase the state subsidise them?hmm..

couple of weeks back i saw a post on facebook

"Im pregnant again!Havent been to the doctors yet but im fairly sure"
"yep just been to the doctors, im pregnant, have to put a cork in it now!"
"wonder will the council give me a new house now"

course. they . will.

meanwhile in the highcourt... repossession orders are at the highest levels since records began.

And lets not get into this education lark either, BTEA 200 approx a week, free fees AND mainteannance! I am not entitled to a grant, my parents have to pay fees. Why BECAUSE THEY WORK FOR A LIVING!

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

There's a reason why long term unemployed have a higher drug use. They have more to escape from, for as well as being marginalised they are ostracised aswell.

Have you any idea what you are talking about? The primary creators of sustainable wealth in this country - self employed entrepeneurs - have no immediate entitlement to benefits. Have you any idea how many suicides are attributable to financial hardship amongst the middle classes? and yet you bleat about how hard the most supported segment of society have it? I am actually shaking with frustration writing this.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Just because you hold views on a matter doesn't make you an expert on it. Unless you have first hand experience of the dole I suggest you refrain from spitting vitriol things you don't understand. You just look foolish.

ditto.

conorhal

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Jebus H Christ.........

......Stupid bigoted people and a stupid bigoted idea.

Thanks from:
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Well, here's our first list of malcontents, now please form an orderly queue behind that curtian chaps....

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I actually have a tough time believe you. Anyone that grew up in a working class neighbourhood simply would not hold those views.

This is more of blaming the poor for being poor.

Anyone who thinks that there is an easy out for these people has no first hand experience of it. None.

I don't blame you for your views but I pity your ignorance and the ignorance of others that leads to bigoted rants and threads like these.

You have your opinions based on your experiences & I have mine. If you want to debate the matter in a civilised manner, I am open to doing so, but you question the fact that I grew up in a poor area, you question the fact that I have no experience of social welfare, accuse me of ignorance & bigotry and tell me that I know nothing?

The only answer I can give to that is on the same level as which you have addressed me personally - ie., GTFO.

CamperMan

most people I know on welfare go on at least 2 holidays a year, they can afford to run cars, go to the pub, buy new toys, feck off to New York christmas shopping..

Add it all up, dole cash, rent allowance, child benefits, + other perks, your better off on the dole than working!

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Jebus H Christ.

Why do people think of people on the dole as some sort of second class citizen.

Social welfare is there to provide for emergency situations where people find themselves out of work.

Engineers, Lawyers, Architects and nearly half a million people are out of work. These people CANNOT survive on 200 bucks a week.

Now you want to piss test them? How. Seriously. Are you going to have the state pay for 450,000 Urine tests periodically under the guise of saving money? It would cost far more than the 200 a week you're paying now

Stupid bigoted people and a stupid bigoted idea.

AnonoBoy

A urine test to get the dole?

What an assh*le!

So if I was unemployed and had a few cans of cheap beer the night before collecting my allowance I should be barred from getting it by this rationale.

Ridiculous.

The writer of that sh*te email works somewhere that requires it - and so he thinks everyone should have to do one? F*ck right off so he can. Does he think I should have to do one to be allowed perform my job or is it only people he deems unworthy that have to take one.

If I find out who wrote that crap he's going straight onto my 'kiss the back of me flaps' list.

Flippin' moron.

Mr. Incognito

I suggest not having kids if you cant afford to provide them with a decent upbringing. Or have you muddied the concepts of entitlement and responsibility completely? Ever wonder why the lower classes have more kids than the upper classes? or why there's a higher incidence of unmarried mothers? is it becuase the state subsidise them?hmm..

Actually there have been many many studies done on why poor people have more children. In short it's because more children increases the chance of one of them being sucessfull and able to support the parents coupled with low education in birth control. The literature is well documented. Maybe we could go down the route of India and round up the poor and castrate them. Would that make you feel better?

couple of weeks back i saw a post on facebook

"Im pregnant again!Havent been to the doctors yet but im fairly sure"
"yep just been to the doctors, im pregnant, have to put a cork in it now!"
"wonder will the council give me a new house now"

Link?

meanwhile in the highcourt... repossession orders are at the highest levels since records began.

And lets not get into this education lark either, BTEA 200 approx a week, free fees AND mainteannance! I am not entitled to a grant, my parents have to pay fees. Why BECAUSE THEY WORK FOR A LIVING!

Repossession is at it's highest because idiots bought houses they couldn't afford.

You're in college. Good for you. You think that this should be reserved for people whose parents work for a living? I was on a grant because my father was a disabled veteran. Should I not be entitled to be educated? Sorry poor kids. No education for you.

Have you any idea what you are talking about? The primary creators of sustainable wealth in this country - self employed entrepeneurs - have no immediate entitlement to benefits. Have you any idea how many suicides are attributable to financial hardship amongst the middle classes? and yet you bleat about how hard the most supported segment of society have it? I am actually shaking with frustration writing this.

Yes they do. They have tax breaks. I'm a tax solicitor for the record. Trust me, the higher your income the less tax you will pay. That's my job day in day out.

As for suicides amongst the middle classes? The odd failed developer topping himself because he is afraid to face his social circle is tragic but is no more tragic than the kids dying on heroin in the margins of society.

You have your opinions based on your experiences & I have mine. If you want to debate the matter in a civilised manner, I am open to doing so, but you question the fact that I grew up in a poor area, you question the fact that I have no experience of social welfare, accuse me of ignorance & bigotry and tell me that I know nothing?

The only answer I can give to that is on the same level as which you have addressed me personally - ie., GTFO.

I said I have a hard time believing that you grew up in a working class area when you think that for most of these people it is an active choice to be unemployed. They do exist sure, but they are not a majority in any way.

Mr. Incognito

most people I know on welfare go on at least 2 holidays a year, they can afford to run cars, go to the pub, buy new toys, feck off to New York christmas shopping..

Add it all up, dole cash, rent allowance, child benefits, + other perks, your better off on the dole than working!

Not this old chestnut. That is bollox. I could do the math for you but it's easier to link: Remember Golf playing Dad in the Indo.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055540985

starbelgrade

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I said I have a hard time believing that you grew up in a working class area when you think that for most of these people it is an active choice to be unemployed. They do exist sure, but they are not a majority in any way.

I never said that they were in the majority - most of my neighbours worked if they had jobs, some worked when they could get the work & a lot of the kids in the area followed suit & went into employment / trades / education when they finished school.

Everyone had the same opportunities - there are grants for education & summer jobs to pay the shortfall. Kids of working class families don't have it as easy as those of middle class families, but they do have choices.

My point is, was, that there is no denying that some simply choose to opt out. And for years the SW has been supporting them with taxpayers money. Then, when the taxpayer finds himself unemployed, he finds that they are not entitled to the same benefits as those who have never done a days work in their lives.

The Social Welfare system does not work for them & this is highly unjust.

helios12

Why not piss-test politicians ?

The majority seem to have a lack of connection with reality which could be construed as a prime indicator of substance abuse.

Do you want want potheads running YOUR country??

starbelgrade

helios12 wrote: »

Why not piss-test politicians ?

The majority seem to have a lack of connection with reality which could be construed as a prime indicator of substance abuse.

Do you want want potheads running YOUR country??

Might make a pleasant change.

helios12

starbelgrade wrote: »

Might make a pleasant change.

True enough, politicians sitting around eating toast and talking about conspiracy theories (gossiping?) would be a nice change of pace on RTE.

bigbadbear

Yes yes we should cut people off welfare because they are on drugs. ESPECIALLY the ones that are totally addicted to something like heroin. That way they will stop taking the drugs and there will be no more drug addicts. Why didn't they think of this sooner.

Hey we can even spend the extra money saved on better locks for our doors and weapons for self defence against the starving drug addicts that will be all over Dublin.

END

AnonoBoy

helios12 wrote: »

True enough, politicians sitting around eating toast and talking about conspiracy theories (gossiping?) would be a nice change of pace on RTE.

Jim Corr for Taoiseach!!!

sNarah

My My

That's a wonderfull idea.

Though I do think it could be extended, just to ensure that nobody would spend their social wellfare money on luxuries:

* Mandatory blood test to check:
- Sugar Levels: No chocolates/candy intake. Stick to diet of bread, spuds and greeneries.
- Colesterol Levels: Junkfood would definitly be a no-no, that's just taking the piss! Any other fatty foods are prohibited.
- Alcohol/Drugs/Any other non-presciption medicine

* Skin and Body fiber test:
- No use of make up, beauty products/treatments or fancy soaps. Lidl/Aldi will do.
- To check fibers being left by clothes. Fibers can not be of new clothing bought whilst unemployed. An ageing test will be executed on any suspicious fibers.
- Any stamp residue from nightclubs.

Also, when signing on, one of the social welfare officers will come over to the current address and make a complete inventory of the property and it's possessions. Officers can do a spotcheck at any given time after singing on - no new purchases can be found within the premises that are considered to be luxuries.

What say you?

Yay?
Nay?

...

sNarah

bigbadbear wrote: »

Yes yes we should cut people off welfare because they are on drugs. ESPECIALLY the ones that are totally addicted to something like heroin. That way they will stop taking the drugs and there will be no more drug addicts. Why didn't they think of this sooner.

END

Great idea! They'll be so hungry they won't even have any energy left to steal!

... oh... uh ... hang on...

smellslikeshoes

If this were to happen it might finally give me the reason I need to build a moat around the house :pac:

Because that's what you would need with all the junkies trying to rob anything in sight to get their fix because they can't get the dole.

Fighting Irish

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Jebus H Christ.

Why do people think of people on the dole as some sort of second class citizen.

Social welfare is there to provide for emergency situations where people find themselves out of work.

Engineers, Lawyers, Architects and nearly half a million people are out of work. These people CANNOT survive on 200 bucks a week.

Now you want to piss test them? How. Seriously. Are you going to have the state pay for 450,000 Urine tests periodically under the guise of saving money? It would cost far more than the 200 a week you're paying now

Stupid bigoted people and a stupid bigoted idea.

I lol @ people like you
Everyone knows that when someone talks about people on "the dole" they mean the people who don't try, not the people who were unfortunate to lose their jobs etc
Get off your high horse

ps How's the dole?

Mr. Incognito

I lol @ people like you
Everyone knows that when someone talks about people on "the dole" they mean the people who don't try, not the people who were unfortunate to lose their jobs etc
Get off your high horse

ps How's the dole?

Oh dear. Another one. So you're not bigoted against those people just THOSE people. Take a step back and reread your post again.

So when you talk about people on the dole you don't mean middle class people that lost their jobs, you mean the poor people with Sky living in Mansions driving their 28 children to school in a Porsche?

Everyone tries man. It's called living.

For the record I've never had to directly draw social welfare not that it matters. If I lost my job and it came to that I've paid a lot of taxes as a high earner and I'll take my emergency ration that I'm entitled to. It's nothing shameful. It's the way we as a society have structured ourselves to look after those that have fallen on tough times.

bigbadbear

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I lol @ people like you
Everyone knows that when someone talks about people on "the dole" they mean the people who don't try, not the people who were unfortunate to lose their jobs etc
Get off your high horse

ps How's the dole?

4% unemployment in the boom and 13% now. nearly everybody on the dole fits into the trying catagory.


PS hows the dole GFYS

helios12

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I lol @ people like you
..[rubbish justifications] ..

ps How's the dole?

:rolleyes: You're a real asset to the place. Never leave ever