High-End Video Editing PC

EIREHotspur

Lads...great thread.

I am in the market for a new Workstation for doing videos and went onto that well known website to build it and my mouth exited my body directly to my toes. 6K +.
Holy &%^$

This is what I am after:

English Genuine Windows® 7 Ultimate (64Bit OS) Recovery DVD included

One Intel® Xeon® X5660(2.80GHz,6.4GT/s,12MB,6C)-Memory runs at 1333MHz

Standard Base Mini-Tower (Vertical orientation)(Westmere)

1.5TB (7200RPM) SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with NCQ and 16MB DataBurst Cache™
24GB DDR3 1333MHz ECC-RDIMM (6x4GB) Requires 64 Bit OS
1.5TB (7200RPM) SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with NCQ and 16MB DataBurst Cache™

16XDVD+/-RW Drive and 6X Blu-Ray Disc Rewritable With Roxio

1.5GB Nvidia Quadro FX4800 - 2 DP, 1 DVI (1 DP-DVI,1 DVI-VGA adapter)Graphics Card

Creative SoundBlaster™ X-fi Titanium Sound card

C2 All SATA Hard Drives, NON-RAID for 2 Hard Drive

Obviously I need the extras like power supply etc but I think I will source the parts and get a guy I know to put it together.
I loved the conviencience of buying in a box but the price and times we are in dictates otherwise.

The cost of the processor, Windows 7, Seagate HDs, RAM and Nvidia Card alone come to something like 2.5K so I'd be nuts not to go this route.
I just need a really High End Machine now Adobe have CS5 out.

Solitaire

Split to new thread as it has nothing to do with the parent thread.

And are you absolutely sure you really need a hexacore CPU and 24GB of DDR3?! That's more than some SSDs!!! :eek:

Mister Man

Jesus 24gb or ram? not much need for that unless your planning some ram hungry programes
How much are them CPU's ive seen them a couple time, but i know nothing about them? Would a I7 Be a better option?

EIREHotspur

thanks for splitting it into this thread Solitaire as I was afraid I wasn't going to get any feedback although I realise now that I didn't ask a specific question in the original thread.

I will either go for 12gig or go the whole hog for 24gig as I am buying it for an upgrade for CS5 Master Collection.
Have a Sony EX3 and HD files are notoriously hungry for as much RAM as you can get.

I went for that processor because it is one of those included on that website Workstation options so I figure thats for a reason.

After working from a Dell M90 with 4gigs for 3-4 years I want this next PC to last me a similar long time.

lmimmfn

depending on what youre doing, most video conversion can be done using Cuda on Nvidia cards, Photoshop CS5 also supports it.

If i were you i would buy a cheaper core i7 920, overclock it to 4Ghz and buy an Nvidia 480GTX. My old Nvidia 260 was approximately 2.5 to 3 times faster than my 920@4Ghz for video conversion, an Nvidia 480GTX is over twice as fast as an Nvidia 260, so youre talking at least twice( and probably 3-4 times faster ) the performance of a X5660.

I did some performance figures for video conversion with different setups( 4.6Gig DVD Vob to mpeg4 ):
i7 920@4Ghz = 43 mins
Nvidia 260( little to no cpu usage ) = 20 mins
Ati 5850( cpu usage @ 50%+ ) = 13 mins

The Nvidia cards are more flexible than the Ati ones.

Just something you should look into further, i.e. what features in CS5 support Cuda, how much video format conversion you do etc.
You cant directly compare gpu cores with cpu cores apart from when its video/image processing, e.g. 6 core cpu vs 480 core gpu.

I would definately favour a gpu solution over a cpu solution for video conversion and image processing as gpu's are insanely parallel and image processing and video conversion can be performed extremely well in parallel as the cores dont have to communicate with one another.

I wouldnt go for a quadro though as theyre overly expensive and the gaming cards are just as good( apart from 3D cad etc where the extra precision of quadros/tesla cards would work a lot better _

ttcomet

Are you sure you need the 4800 btw? I don't think it is twice as good as the 3800 but it is about double the price. Check etradecomputers.co.uk for prices they were the cheapest I could find for the 3800, not sure how they do on the 4800. Elara have the 4800 with elemental v2 for only a couple of hundred extra although it is out of stock at the moment.

You also sure you need the Xeon would an i7 over clocked not be enough especially in conjunction with the 4800?

I would recommend getting a full tower and not a midi one, who ever is building it will thank you for it and the extra space will help keep temperatures down a bit.

I am in the process of building a system based around a quadro 3800. It will be an i7 chip over clocked and water cooled, 12 gig of ram, many many tb's of hard disks and all sitting in an Obsidian 800D. Although it will be used for 3D/matte painting/compositing/photography with only a bit of video work.

EIREHotspur

Thanks for the detailed answers lads.

I am going for the 4800 and processor because I am just trying to futureproof myself for as long as I can.
I think you get waht you pay for and as I have decided to go this Build Your Own Pc I am going to save up to 50% as opposed to going with Dell.

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/systemreqs/

I had an ATI card as a replacement for my old desktop and wouldn't touch one with a barge pole again.

I found the 3800 on a search for £483
http://www.google.co.uk/products?hl=en&q=Quadro+FX+3800&scoring=p

Another recommended card, GeForce GTX 285 is £305.

I won't be doing any gaming on my PC as I have a PS3 for that.

You have gave me a lot to read up on and figure out.

thanks lads.

Dublin_Gunner

Don't write off ATI because you had one bad experience, though maybe Nvidia cards may be the way to go for this build.

Area's on your PC though I'd change.

CPU - Get the fastest i7 you can afford, thats 8 threads of parallel goodness, no need for a Xeon at all.

Ram - hmm, ok. Its a lot, probably not needed, but then again I'm not sure what type of video you'll be working with.

You do not need a workstation card for video editing. Any high end video card will render things a HELL OF A LOT faster than ANY CPU these days.

Go for HD5870, or GTX470/480 instead. Encoding / transcoding over GPU is seriously quick.

I know you're going for a lot of storage with those drives, but save money on the vid card and CPU, and get some large SSD's to use as working drives, and the HDD's for storage alone. This will probably make the biggest difference with regards to video editing.

The list you linked to on compatible video cards is NOT a conclusive list.

Hell, even my Mac Pro with an ATI 2600XT accelerates Premiere faster than my 2xQuad Xeons.

EIREHotspur

Thanks for that.

So Dell is pushing the Quadros in there Workstations because they cost more.

I had started out on the dell website with an i7 configuration just to see but they limit you to a 512MB PCIe x16 NVIDIA Quadro FX 580.

Already dedided to go the Build My Own now and I am just holding off a bit to see if Adobe add more cards.
I want as much RAM as I can get.

From what you are all telling me the Quadros are overkill.
Nvidia just works better with Adobe products as they have a tied in agreement.
From what I read it is going to be shipped next week so things will pick up quiet a bit and I expect more cards to be added asap.

As you can understand when it involves as much of an outlay then as much info as I can get is welcome....especially as you all talk from experience.

Dublin_Gunner

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Thanks for that.

So Dell is pushing the Quadros in there Workstations because they cost more.

I had started out on the dell website with an i7 configuration just to see but they limit you to a 512MB PCIe x16 NVIDIA Quadro FX 580.

Already dedided to go the Build My Own now and I am just holding off a bit to see if Adobe add more cards.
I want as much RAM as I can get.

From what you are all telling me the Quadros are overkill.
Nvidia just works better with Adobe products as they have a tied in agreement.
From what I read it is going to be shipped next week so things will pick up quiet a bit and I expect more cards to be added asap.

As you can understand when it involves as much of an outlay then as much info as I can get is welcome....especially as you all talk from experience.

Pretty much any DX10 or newer card will work with it for GPU acceleration - but get a consumer card, not a pro one - they will not be worth the money for video editing.

You can be pretty sure that this is literally a marketing reason that only those cards are listed.

i.e the GTX 285 is listed - so why not the 260, 280, 275 or 295?? They are all variants of the same graphics card.

And you can be damn sure the new GTX470 & 480 will be supported.

I'm led to believe Premiere Pro CS5 uses CUDA however for GPU acceleration - so therefore thats Nvidia only. But please, do not waste money on a Quadro GPU that will really go to waste.

Just to clarify though - what type of video's will you be editing? Are they 4k cinema type feature length things or a fair bit smaller? (There are some Quadro specific features for higher end video editing using SDI monitors & projectors).

EIREHotspur

Smaller....Red Cameras are way above my budget.
Sony Ex3 HD Cameras
HD Features/Shorts/Adverts
SD Weddings/Shorts/Adverts

I am buying it to work with CS5 Master Collection

Looks like the 480 is the one to go for so.

Solitaire

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

CPU - Get the fastest i7 you can afford, thats 8 threads of parallel goodness, no need for a Xeon at all.

That Xeon has 12 threads of parallel goodness - and its a low-power 32nm CPU (95W TDP) too!

Not that a i7-930 or i7-860 OCd to 4.2GHz couldn't challenge it They'd just be a lot hotter doing so

EIREHotspur

Well thats why the boards are invaluable because I am leaning towards the Xeon for processor and the 480 as the graphics card (pending Adobe naming it as supported).

Hot in anything other than a girl isn't good.

Dublin_Gunner

Solitaire wrote: »

That Xeon has 12 threads of parallel goodness - and its a low-power 32nm CPU (95W TDP) too!

Not that a i7-930 or i7-860 OCd to 4.2GHz couldn't challenge it They'd just be a lot hotter doing so

I know, but its not needed when CS5 is GPU accelerated.

The Xeon would be wasted, when the money could be better spent elsewhere. 8 virtual cores of the i7 would be more than enough - and when real time rendering / encoding / transcoding is done over the GPU - that very expensive and shiny Xeon becomes all but redundant...

ttcomet

Thanks for the link for the 3800 but the site selling it at that price seems to be selling Dell seconds. When you google the name of the company the first few hits are about people either in court action with them or complaining about the quality of goods/servies.

I would disagree with some of the other posters here and say that a Quadro is way above any of the gaming spec cards for 3d and video work. There is a good review of the 4800 on tomshardware. To quote "A Quadro FX 4800 moves up to 10 times faster when running workstation applications than the GeForce GTX 280."

As you mention it may be worth holding off such a big purchase to see if they do certify the 400 range of cards, hopefully someone will compare them to the Quadro's.

Dublin_Gunner

ttcomet wrote: »

Thanks for the link for the 3800 but the site selling it at that price seems to be selling Dell seconds. When you google the name of the company the first few hits are about people either in court action with them or complaining about the quality of goods/servies.

I would disagree with some of the other posters here and say that a Quadro is way above any of the gaming spec cards for 3d and video work. There is a good review of the 4800 on tomshardware. To quote "A Quadro FX 4800 moves up to 10 times faster when running workstation applications than the GeForce GTX 280."

As you mention it may be worth holding off such a big purchase to see if they do certify the 400 range of cards, hopefully someone will compare them to the Quadro's.

And thats true about the Quadro - but Premiere CS5 uses Cuda, so pretty much any modern Nvidia card will accelerate the rendering, doesn't need to be a Quadro. One of the main differences with a Quadro is the ability to run multiple 3D instances, in different windows, concurrently. A consumer card cannot do this. There are other differences of course, but for CUDA related tasks, I really cannot see how a Quadro is justified.

lmimmfn

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

And thats true about the Quadro - but Premiere CS5 uses Cuda, so pretty much any modern Nvidia card will accelerate the rendering, doesn't need to be a Quadro. One of the main differences with a Quadro is the ability to run multiple 3D instances, in different windows, concurrently. A consumer card cannot do this. There are other differences of course, but for CUDA related tasks, I really cannot see how a Quadro is justified.

I agree, a 480GTX would destroy a Quadro in non high precision calculations with Cuda. Tesla is the way to go for that bet damn expensive.

Dunno, about the multiple 3D instances, makes no sense if thats a limitation simply because each one is only a viewport double buffered window, no reason why the gaming cards couldnt do that unless they deliberately disabled it in software for the applications.

Dublin_Gunner

lmimmfn wrote: »

I agree, a 480GTX would destroy a Quadro in non high precision calculations with Cuda. Tesla is the way to go for that bet damn expensive.

Dunno, about the multiple 3D instances, makes no sense if thats a limitation simply because each one is only a viewport double buffered window, no reason why the gaming cards couldnt do that unless they deliberately disabled it in software for the applications.

Its deliberately disabled (in BIOS - though there are some differences in the silicon - hence merely flashing a card does not produce the same level of performance in certain apps) - they use the same cores. Thats one of the main reasons for a Workstation card.

Quadro's are also desinged for precision, GeForce for speed.

ttcomet

Thanks for the information. I may hold off making a decision on the card until the 400 line get certified by adobe. According to some reports the trial version of CS5 wont even allow the mercury playback engine to be turned on unless you have one of the 4 or 5 supported cards.

Apparently there is also a 4900 and a 5900 Quadro on the way "soon" based on the same architecture as the 400 series boards. Maybe they will push the price of the other boards down a little.

EIREHotspur

Thanks for the continued feedback lads.

Lets go at it from this angle so.

I am going to be saving 50% Building it myself as opposed to buying from Dell so I don't mind paying more for a Quadro.

Your saying the GeForce is still faster?

Elessar

I can't imagine HD video will use even 12Gb ram, never mind 24Gb! What applications are you using for video editing? CS5 will run just fine on any decent PC, it doesn't need to be a mega-ultra-€6000 rig.

Have you considered a Mac Pro or Macbook Pro with accessories? I can tell you from experience even the Macbook Pro is fine for video editing and CS4 (and 5). Plus you'll have the support and warranty all-in-one.

You are going completely overboard with your specs.

EIREHotspur

I have always read great things about Macs but I have invested a lot of money in Software for the PC to abandon it now.

If my specs seem overboard then good.

When I got my Dell M90 people told me it would run great with 4gigs of RAM but I want enough RAM to have Premiere render a sequence, Work in After Effects, Have Encore, Photoshop, Indesign, Multiple browser windows and MS Word Open if I want to and never see my PC slow to a standstill again.

I want as Pro a System as I can get and as much Ram as I can get.

Solitaire

Even then 12GB should be plenty, and even 6GB wouldn't be a slouch. Stuff like office apps and browsers take up monitor real-estate, not memory or CPU.

ED E

With CUDA does the render delegate to all CPUs and GPUs or does it just use one or the other?

EIREHotspur

Guys....Crisis Time = Make The Mind Up Time

My laptop has been acting very strange the past few days despite replacing my graphics card and it doesn't work reliably now.

If I switch it off it might not work so today I have to order a PC/Build my own so I only have so much time to order before the working day is done.

Can someone point me in the direction of a good deal website that I can get stuff.

What I really need is help with a good motherboard and Power Supply.

If I can order now I can hopefully get them by early next week.

Elessar

www.hardwareversand.de

I've ordered with them before and had no problems. They are much less expensive than any other online shop I could find.

EIREHotspur

Thanks for that, I will check them out.

I am in need of someone to point me in the direction of an ideal motherboard to start things off based on my previous specs.
Intel Xeon, Nvidia 4800, 12-24Gigs RAM,

I think I found the perfect motherboard.
http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/index.pl?origin=gbase6.9&prodID=B446157
Limit of 16gigs of RAM but from what people say it is the graphics card that increases render speed.

Dublin_Gunner

Good board, but you do realise its a socket 1156 board? Also, it has no USB3 ports.

So you're limited to Xeon 3400 series at the moment.

I still think you could save a few €€ and put an i5 750 in there.

But, the Xeon is a good CPU, and coupled with some decent ram, and a good vid card, you'd have a very good machine there.

EIREHotspur

Thanks but are you sure.....it says this in the Specs.....

Ultra-fast Throughput with USB 3.0, SATA 6Gb/s and IEEE 1394b Interfaces
The ASUS P7F7-E WS SuperComputer is the best choice for providing comprehensive I/O support. It includes USB 3.0 ports—the latest connectivity standard with 4.8Gb/s speeds—to support next-generation components and peripherals. USB 3.0 transfers data ten times faster and is backward compatible with USB 2.0 components.

Dublin_Gunner

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Thanks but are you sure.....it says this in the Specs.....

Ultra-fast Throughput with USB 3.0, SATA 6Gb/s and IEEE 1394b Interfaces
The ASUS P7F7-E WS SuperComputer is the best choice for providing comprehensive I/O support. It includes USB 3.0 ports—the latest connectivity standard with 4.8Gb/s speeds—to support next-generation components and peripherals. USB 3.0 transfers data ten times faster and is backward compatible with USB 2.0 components.

It says that in the description, but not in the detailed specs. I'd double check just to make sure (it only lists USB 2.0 ports in the detailed specs).

**just checked elsewhere, and it does have 2 x USB 3.0 on the rear panel.

ttcomet

These steps apparently allow you to run the new premier mercury engine with almost any CUDA enabled card. I believe the card must have at least 765 megs of RAM. If you decide to try this and something bad happens, like the Grinch steals christmas or your installation goes tits up dont come crying back to me (I wonder would this disclaimer hold up in court :P).

The "GeForce GTX 295" will change depending on the card you have.

Here are the steps:

Step 1. Go to the Premiere CS5 installation folder.
Step 2. Find the file "GPUSniffer.exe" and run it in a command prompt (cmd.exe). You should see something like that:

---

Device: 00000000001D4208 has video RAM(MB): 896
Device: 00000000001D4208 has video RAM(MB): 896
Vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
Renderer string: GeForce GTX 295/PCI/SSE2
Version string: 3.0.0

OpenGL version as determined by Extensionator...
OpenGL Version 2.0
Supports shaders!
Supports BGRA -> BGRA Shader
Supports VUYA Shader -> BGRA
Supports UYVY/YUYV ->BGRA Shader
Supports YUV 4:2:0 -> BGRA Shader
Testing for CUDA support...
Found 2 devices supporting CUDA.
CUDA Device # 0 properties -
CUDA device details:
Name: GeForce GTX 295 Compute capability: 1.3
Total Video Memory: 877MB
CUDA Device # 1 properties -
CUDA device details:
Name: GeForce GTX 295 Compute capability: 1.3
Total Video Memory: 877MB
CUDA Device # 0 not choosen because it did not match the named list of cards
Completed shader test!
Internal return value: 7

---

If you look at the last line it says the CUDA device is not chosen because it's not in the named list of card. That's fine. Let's add it.

Step 3. Find the file: "cuda_supported_cards.txt" and edit it and add your card (take the name from the line: CUDA device details: Name: GeForce GTX 295 Compute capability: 1.3)

So in my case the name to add is: GeForce GTX 295

Step 4. Save that file and we're almost ready.

Step 5. Go to your Nvidia Driver control panel (im using the latest 197.45) under "Manage 3D Settings", Click "Add" and browse to your Premiere CS5 install directory and select the executable file: "Adobe Premiere Pro.exe"

Step 6. In the field "multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration" switch from "multiple display performance mode" to "compatibility performance mode"

Step 7. That's it. Boot Premiere and go to your project setting / general and activate the new rendering engine.