Panniers for commuting, worth it?

youcancallmeal

So I've been cycling in and out of Dublin city center going on about 10 years now (About 25km round trip). The last five years has been on a hybrid which its falling apart at this stage, I've replaced pretty much every part on the bike during that time(Even the frame!). I'm going to go get a quote for a bike tomorrow as part of the bike to work scheme. I have my heart set on the Giant Rapid 1 but over the last few days I've been thinking I might like to go for something a little different this time. Maybe a bike with panniers and maybe even disk brakes? I've always avoided road bikes but I may even consider one if the price/setup is right. I wont lie I have absolutely no intention of cycling outside of my commute which is why road bikes have never interested me. Anyway questions some of you may be able to help with:

- Would panniers slow you down a lot and add a lot of stress on the frame/wheels? I've always liked to cycle at a very fast pace and maneuver quickly through taffic. When I think of panniers I imagine one of those people trundling onlong with panniers overloaded down to the ground and sweating profusely with strain
- Are disc brakes hard to maintain? I know v-brakes/pivot brakes inside out and brake pads are relatively cheap so I wouldnt want to go for disc brakes only to find they need to be replaced at a high cost after a few months heavy use?

Supercell

I love my Ortlieb panniers, would be lost without them. Seconds to put on and take off. No sweaty back, whats not to like?
My shoulders are wider than the panniers so i dont notice them at all weaving in and out of city traffic.

Lumen

The only thing you can't really do with panniers is bunnyhop. Otherwise you won't notice them.

stiofan85

My 2c:

I made the move to panniers about 4 weeks ago. Similar commute-20k round trip. Seriously downhill on the way in, seriously uphill on the way back!

-Speed. Pretty much no difference at all. The Panniers are behind your legs so airflow doesn't really hit them like you'd think. I found the bike slower to take off from lights - I guess the weight was on my shoulders pushing down the pedals, but now the weight is on the bike and not pushing down the pedals (I think this is right, it may all be in my head!).

-Hills. Haven't noticed a difference at all.

-Maneuvering. Tiniest bit of difference. I'm slightly more cautious when I'm filtering between cars and crossing the front/rear of a car, but it's barely noticable.

-Frame stress. I use a Specialized Hardrock XC for commuting. Beast of a bike in terms of durability. Haven't noticed any problems. Pannier is nice and secure. Makes NO noise either.

-Wheel stress. My good rear wheel was stolen so I'm using a sh*tty cheap wheel that was breaking spokes before I put the pannier on. Haven't broken a spoke yet! so I guess the answer is there's no difference. The weight distribution is slightly more over the rear wheel, but not that much, so I think it's grand. If you're carrying the same stuff as you would in a back pack, you should be fine.

-Tyre wear. I'm unsure about this-I've noticed wear on the right side of the rear tyre is more than the left side. I only carry 1 pannier most days. This could be the cause? I'm unsure though as I've only had them about 4 weeks.

OVERALL:Feckin delighted with them. No more sweaty back. Pop on and off in a second. Probably quicker than taking a bag off your back.

My only recommendation would be to get a pannier with a shoulder strap for carrying it off the bike-if this is something you feel you need, of course.

Highway_To_Hell

I use an Altura pannier on my commuter, it has a handy hookon/clip in mechanism which works well if taking it easy, I would also tie my pannier on to the rack as I tend to push it quite hard when cycling and don't always get to avoid the potholes, still haven't lost the pannier, also it wouldn't stick out much further then my leg so no issue when weaving/avoiding around traffic.

I have tried a back pack but caused me a lot of back strain.

RoubX

I commute with a light rack and a pair of ortleib front panniers on the back. Small, tough, totally waterproof and light. Also, the fixing is solid so no bumping. You'd not really notice them and no sweaty back.

youcancallmeal

Good advice thanks guys. Reckon I'll see if I can take one for a spin and just stick some bricks in the bags to see how it feels :pac:

Git101

youcancallme>al wrote: »

The last five years has been on a hybrid which its falling apart at this stage, I've replaced pretty much every part on the bike during that time(Even the frame!).

Couldn't resist

Doctor Bob

Re the 'trundling'- panniers are only as heavy as what you put into them.

I use a single Ortlieb back roller on my rear rack most days, and occasionally use two. It only ever feels unbalanced if it's full of groceries; my daily kit (rain gear, tools, some light work documents, etc.) seems to have almost no bearing on balance.

I'd agree fully with stiofan85 re speed, frame stress, wheel stress and hills; I'd disagree slightly on manoeuverability - no difference (except when fully loaded) - and on tyre wear - there's more wear on the rear tyre, but it's not asymmetrical.

Much will depend on the type of bike you put them on, but I'd give a hearty thumbs up on them in general.

My only reservations on the Ortliebs are a) not the easiest to carry for long periods when off the bike (even with the shoulder strap), and b) there's no zip/slot for easy access to the interior, i.e. you have to open them fully at the top to get at the contents. But don't worry, you'll quickly learn not to parcel up your keys inside once you've done it once or twice!

Another great thing about them is that the individual parts can be replaced separately, rather than having to bin the whole bag if something breaks/fails, e.g. when I upgraded my bike 4 years ago, due to the different rear rack design I needed to get a different fitting for the lower anchor hook. No bother at all.

Mine are about 4 years old and used daily, and they still look almost brand new; a colleague has had his for 15 years and used them for commuting and touring, and they're only now showing real signs of wear.

Not the cheapest, but I seriously doubt you'd regret the marginal higher cost.

http://www.wallbike.com/ortlieb/rollerclassic.html

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

The only thing you can't really do with panniers is bunnyhop. Otherwise you won't notice them.

Depends how much are in the panniers. I see a boards challenge.

@OP- yes panniers are great.

As to the bike, you can get a road bike with rack mounts suitable for light loads, or a touring/cyclocross bike that will take wider tyres and heavier loads.

There can be a few issues fitting a rack with disc brakes but it is doable. Narrow-tyred road bikes do not need disc brakes at all, calipers work very well indeed. I could see the benefits to discs though with wider-tyred tourer/cross bikes as cantilevers with STI levers are very poor in comparison.

Gavin

If I could put disc brakes on my commuter, I'd do it, tout suite. There are a number of advantages:

* Obviously better braking in the wet and probably slightly better in the dry.
* Less maintenance - You change the pads when need be, no problem. I have found my v-brakes quite fiddly, even the ones with cartridge inserts. You still have to adjust them a little bit when replacing pads.
* No rim wear. All the wear is on the rotor and a rotor will last years. My rims have a nice curve in them from the v-brakes, so a replacement is due soon. No such need with disc brakes. Good quality wheels should last for ages.
* + if you go hydraulic over cable actuated, it's simply less effort to pull on the brake. Sounds stupid, but it's actually very nice to only have to pull the lever slightly to brake.

WithCheesePlease

stiofan85 wrote: »

Seriously downhill on the way in, seriously downhill on the way back!

How does that work?!

Ant

Years ago, I used to work as a courier and for a long time afterwards, I used my courier bag for commuting. It's still grand for light loads and/or short trips when the temperature is cool enough that you don't work up a sweat.

However, for anything more I'd definitely recommend pannier bags. Unlike stiofan85 I have noticed the extra weight while going up hills and I'd also notice the extra drag in windy conditions. I'd agree with all the other positives to panniers and also add that with heavy weights, the bike handling is much better with panniers as your overall centre of gravity is lower. Your back and neck muscles will also thank you.

Finally, I'd recommend that for heavy loads that you use two panniers (one on each side) so that the weight is evenly distributed. I used to cycle with just one pannier on one side and the rack got a stress fracture just above the point where it bolted on to the stays.

IM0

Lumen wrote: »

The only thing you can't really do with panniers is bunnyhop. Otherwise you won't notice them.

that and also manouvre through smaller gaps which an non pannier'd bike can, which OP was one of your requirements from your post. Also the panniers are only as heavy as the stuff you put in them some panniers are better than others as they have a better more secure clip on system.

Lumen

me@ucd wrote: »

that and also manouvre through smaller gaps which an non pannier'd bike can, which OP was one of your requirements from your post.

I use a rack bag, which is very narrow - much more so than my arse, so it has no effect on gaps. The downside is the slightly higher CoM, but I don't find that an issue.

blorg

Ant wrote: »

Finally, I'd recommend that for heavy loads that you use two panniers (one on each side) so that the weight is evenly distributed. I used to cycle with just one pannier on one side and the rack got a stress fracture just above the point where it bolted on to the stays.

That sounds like a faulty rack; I cycle myself often with one pannier and no difficulties.

blorg

me@ucd wrote: »

that and also manouvre through smaller gaps which an non pannier'd bike can, which OP was one of your requirements from your post.

Even with panniers at the side they don't make the bike significantly wider. Your bars and feet/legs on the pedals also extend out from the centre of the bike remember.

IM0

blorg wrote: »

Even with panniers at the side they don't make the bike significantly wider. Your bars and feet/legs on the pedals also extend out from the centre of the bike remember.

thats true, but panniers are also that bit lower than the handlebars too, so they will catch stuff easier, especially as they're..behind you :pac:

tomasrojo

stiofan85 wrote: »

Seriously downhill on the way in, seriously downhill on the way back!

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

How does that work?!

Ant

blorg wrote: »

That sounds like a faulty rack; I cycle myself often with one pannier and no difficulties.

Hmm. I don't remember the brand as it as I got Cycleways to install the rack on the bike when I bought it. It broke just under a year after I bought the bike. In any case, I've since installed a Blackburn that I got from Chain Reaction.

tomasrojo

I switched to panniers a few years ago and I'm happier with them than using a rucksack on my back, or -- as I used to do -- a rucksack bungee-roped on to the carrier. Stable, easy to put on, no sweaty back, and if you use two you can do an improptu shop on the way home and get a sizeable load.

stiofan85

Uphill on the way back. Uphill!

cdaly_

Aww. I thought you had a big ladder somewhere...

SerialComplaint

I concur with all the recommendations to go for panniers. Do take a bit of time to choose the right ones for you. I'm struggling with panniers that take ages to get on and off, and end up either rubbing my heels or rubbing the back wheel, depending on the position.

kenmc

I recently made the switch to panniers, enforced cos I hurt my back and while I was given the ok to cycle to work again, I didn't want to carry a bag for a while - was using a messenger bag before. I borrowed a pannier from a colleague for a week or so then ordered my own, a pair of altura arran 36, come as a pair, have only used one yet. great yokes panniers. converted, me.

cdaly_

And, of course, if the option exists for you at work, bring in a week's worth of work clothes on Mon and leave the pannier at work until Fri. I use a small rack bag for lunch, locks etc...

Civilian_Target

Yeah, panniers are awesome, I got a rack several years ago, and it's now a must have.

Like Blorg says though, panniers and disc brakes don't mix apparantly. See half way down here for why: http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/touring/product/sutra-09-33985

I'm in the market for a new bike and have tried several with disc brakes, and read up about them, and honestly, I'm not convinced. They're good for stopping in the rain with a lightly loaded bike, but long descents with a load can mess them up. Better keep it simple with rim brakes if you ask me!

Gavin

Just stick with a front disc brake. The rear one will always lock up with rim/disc.

Bluefoam

these look good





http://www.bikeinfo.org/index.php?title=PDW_Payload_Rack

BostonB

Civilian_Target wrote: »

...They're good for stopping in the rain with a lightly loaded bike, but long descents with a load can mess them up. ...!

How so?

youcancallmeal

Right well this is what I've decided to go for in the end



Not sure about the mudguards as I've heard that the Rapid won't take most mudguards due to the large(ish) tires 700x28. I was actually thinking of asking could I get different tyres put on instead of the Kenda Kwest, heard they are not very good at all(Punctures and short life span). I'd like the Continental GP4000 but I'd settle for the gator skins.

blorg

I would not get a flat bar hybrid for commuting that doesn't take proper mudguards. Nuts IMHO. I think you may get them on but only if you reduced the tyre size. Race blades work, I use them on my road bikes, but they are nowhere near as good as proper mudguards. You might need to get the larger variant for 28s I think; I have used the smaller ones up to 25/26 but I think 28 might be pushing it.

BostonB

The old version of the Rapid was the FCR and that was tight for clearance of mudguards, but Giant did their own brand that fit around the brake. Same mudguard for for the SCR which was the older version of the Defy. The new Rapid and Defy are meant to have more clearance for tyres and mudguards. (longer brakes?) Giant probably still do their own mudguard for them. AFAIK anyway.

youcancallmeal

blorg wrote: »

I would not get a flat bar hybrid for commuting that doesn't take proper mudguards. Nuts IMHO. I think you may get them on but only if you reduced the tyre size. Race blades work, I use them on my road bikes, but they are nowhere near as good as proper mudguards. You might need to get the larger variant for 28s I think; I have used the smaller ones up to 25/26 but I think 28 might be pushing it.

My plan is to ask the shop to replace the stock tyres with any decent 700x23 tyre, if they say no I'll just buy them myself and sell the stock tyres on adverts or something?

blorg

youcancallme>al wrote: »

My plan is to ask the shop to replace the stock tyres with any decent 700x23 tyre, if they say no I'll just buy them myself and sell the stock tyres on adverts or something?

700x23 tyres are far from ideal for a bike with rack and panniers. 700x25 minimum. I'd go for a bike with the proper clearances to be honest. Although you might get 700x25 on with mudguards onto that if you don't have the bike already it does look like you are getting something somewhat unsuitable.

youcancallmeal

Nah havent got it yet. I'm still a little undecided so I could easily be talked into something else when I go into the shop. I basically want something like the Rapid series so it would be both quick and be also able take a moderate load with the panniers.

I ruled out a bike with drop bars because it seems that for around the same money the components arent as good as a hybrid i.e. Defy 3 mostly Sora components vs Rapid 2 mostly Tiagra. I presume this is because the shifters/brakes on the drop bars are more expensive and this is offset by the slightly lesser speced components?

I like the look of the Lapierre Shaper 500 and it actually looks like it has better components for the same price as the Rapid 2. Don't know a lot about it though. My dream bike would be the Kona PHD but I cant bring myself to go into cyclelogical after being messed around by them in the past. Buying from wiggle seems to be out of the question with the way the bike to work scheme is run in my workplace.

Civilian_Target

Flat bars and panniers on 700x23 tyres... that's crazy.

First thing you touch will give you a pinch flat on your back wheel.

blorg

youcancallme>al wrote: »

I ruled out a bike with drop bars because it seems that for around the same money the components arent as good as a hybrid i.e. Defy 3 mostly Sora components vs Rapid 2 mostly Tiagra. I presume this is because the shifters/brakes on the drop bars are more expensive and this is offset by the slightly lesser speced components?

Yes, the shifters are expensive. However a drop bar bike with Sora will be a hell of a lot faster than a flat bar bike with a Tiagra rear derailleur. I'd reconsider on that one. Sora works absolutely fine by the way, the newer 9 speed edition reputably even better.

blorg

Here's an option. £679.66+3.99 delivery if you have a Wiggle Platinum discount- and if not they come around with 15% off weekends often enough, or someone could put it on their Wiggle account so you get it at that price.

Tiagra groupset including the shifters, takes wide tyres, mounts for rack and panniers. You would just have to change the tyres (I would suggest 700x28 slicks.)



Nice looking bike too.

blorg

Or a Tifosi CK7 (£670 from Wiggle with the 12% discount) - probably lighter, carbon fork, better braking and comes with the mudguards already and I think 700x28c tyres. If you didn't need bigger than 28s (and you probably don't) then it could be a very good option. Buying a flat bar bike just because it has a Tiagra rear derailleur rather than Sora makes no sense.



There will be other specific options but this is the general direction I would go.

youcancallmeal

Hmmm decisions decisions, how do I go about getting a bike from Wiggle on the bike to work scheme? If I was going to buy from them it would have to be a Kona, not sure why exactly but I've always liked Kona bikes. I'd be willing to spend around a €1000. Cheers for the advice Blorg!

Civilian_Target

I bought a Kona Honky Tonk last week, and was seriously considering the CK7 Winter... nice bike. In the end I decided I wanted steel and the possibility of wider tyres, but if that's not a criteria for you, then go for it!

youcancallmeal

Yeah saw your pics on another thread and its a lovely looking bike, would probably suit me perfectly for what I want to do. I'm going to look into it

blorg

You can buy from anywhere on the bike to work scheme, your employer just needs to be willing to do it. Wiggle are on the civil service approved supplier list if it is any help.

Kona Honky Tonk could be a good option, I believe it will take 700x28c with full mudguards, possibly the Tifosi only goes to 700x25c with the mudguards.

serendip

blorg wrote: »

700x23 tyres are far from ideal for a bike with rack and panniers.

Would you mind explaining why?

I had 700x23 on my rack and panniers commuting bike. Changed to 700x25 on the rear (only) after getting a pinch puncture from hitting a pothole. Is that the type of problem you have in mind?

tomasrojo

blorg wrote: »

Here's an option. £679.66+3.99 delivery if you have a Wiggle Platinum discount- and if not they come around with 15% off weekends often enough, or someone could put it on their Wiggle account so you get it at that price.

Tiagra groupset including the shifters, takes wide tyres, mounts for rack and panniers. You would just have to change the tyres (I would suggest 700x28 slicks.)



Nice looking bike too.

With 700x28 tyres that would be very like what I happily use for commuting (Dawes Horizon). But nicer looking and with better brakes. Worth considering, I think.

Lumen

tomasrojo wrote: »

With 700x28 tyres that would be very like what I happily use for commuting (Dawes Horizon). But nicer looking and with better brakes. Worth considering, I think.

Not really convinced about the brakes though. That Tifosi (or similar) looked a more practical idea, unless you need/want to fit massive tyres.

IMO long reach calipers with 28mm tyres and full mudguards is the sweet spot for a practical, comfortable commuter, if such a thing is possible.

blorg

serendip wrote: »

Changed to 700x25 on the rear (only) after getting a pinch puncture from hitting a pothole. Is that the type of problem you have in mind?

Basically, yes. You'll be at risk of pinch flats and buckling your wheels.

I have used 700x23c with a saddle and bar bag (around 5kg total) on my racer for light tours (~800km across the Pyrenees and around Ireland) but I think I'd use 700x25c in the future.

I have toured on 700x25c with a substantial load (~20kg) but got a lot of pinch flats (and wheel buckles) on very bad road surfaces and white roads touring in Italy. Have 700x28c on the tourer now; I think this is a good choice for loaded touring on tarmac but would put on wider if I was going to be loaded touring on unpaved roads. I've used 700x35c for that successfully before.

You certainly can use 700x23c tyres with a rack and race blades on a flat-bar racer but it is far from optimal for anything. It is the sort of thing you might do if you already had a bike and were constrained as to your options, but if you don't have anything yet I wouldn't specifically buy that combo.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

Not really convinced about the brakes though. That Tifosi (or similar) looked a more practical idea, unless you need/want to fit massive tyres.

IMO long reach calipers with 28mm tyres and full mudguards is the sweet spot for a practical, comfortable commuter, if such a thing is possible.

I would tend to agree- and commuting around Dublin you should not need more than 28mm tyres.

The cantilevers and mini-V brakes used with STI levers on tourers/cross bikes taking wider tyres are compromised in one way or the other. But they are a necessary evil if you want wider tyres, which for a tourer rather than a commuter gives you greater flexibility. For the OP I would tend towards long reach calipers and 28c.

Lumen

Just found these 700x54c tyres on CRC. Ought to be quite comfy. Will measure my CX bike for clearance tonight.

cdaly_

I'm running an FCR with 700x28 tyres. The viper mudguards that I got with the bike barely clear the front tyre and I had to hack on them to clear the rear. Basically I cut the mudguard and attached it to the underside of the carrier rather than to the frame. Won't fit between tyre and caliper bridge.