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Doctors and nurses-are you happy here?
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30-04-2010 5:38pm#1I'm studying nursing in Trinity and it's ok but I always wanted to do medicine but I'm totally put off by the appalling standards of healthcare here. I know this isn't news but has it always been this bad?? Seriously? I'm 23 and I can't remember a time when there wasn't some problems with it. Ireland is one of the only countries in the world where nurses still have to do dirty work, thus becoming de-skilled (and believe me the degree course is no walk in the park), patients are left for hours on end on trollies due to lack of beds, old people are left in hospital for months at a time because they can't afford home help and there seems to be no money to help them, if you need surgery or a scan you could be waiting up to two years, etc. I'm not trying to blame any doctors here, I'm aware you're just cogs in the machine, I just cannot for the life of me comprehend why people come from countries all over the world to study or practice medicine and nursing when the country is a mess. Should I just leave the country if I want to pursue anything health-related??0
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Sounds like you are defeated even before you have begun. With an attitude like that I don't think you should bother. You have to be in the system to change it, you have to want to change it, have to want to help a little each day.
"Ireland is one of the only countries in the world where nurses still have to do dirty work, thus becoming de-skilled (and believe me the degree course is no walk in the park), patients are left for hours on end on trollies due to lack of beds, old people are left in hospital for months at a time because they can't afford home help and there seems to be no money to help them, if you need surgery or a scan you could be waiting up to two years, etc."
This is very naive, don't let your nursing colleagues let you hear them talking about 'de-skilling' or dirty work. I find it of huge importance when a nurse tells me when they are assisting a patient with a wash etc that they have noticed a new wound/pressure sore or if the patient is getting weaker etc, i.e unable to help themselves. I don't think that this is being de-skilled, I think this is the esence of being a nurse-truely knowing your patients, being an advocate. And before you think I am talking through my arse-I worked as a Nurse's aide for several years before and through medical school so I know a good nurse when I see one-no jokes please I am being serious.
The system sucks yes, am I happy, yes very much so, principally because I'm doing what I have always wanted to do, and I like irritating management when I can!0 -
I didn't mean to sound defeatist, I'm just trying to be realistic. Personally I don't find nursing to be very challenging and I feel it's a pity that I don't get to use all the knowledge I learn in college on placement, maybe it's because I'm only a student so get landed with all the grunt work, but even still I have a fair insight into what the job entails.
Nursing is an important job, with a lot of responsibility, I don't doubt that, but I've never had an overwhelming desire to do it, unlike medicine, but as I said before the working conditions are putting me off. I've read a lot of threads about it and it seems that a lot of doctors aren't happy with it and it's served as an eye opener to me. I might go ahead an do a specialist post grad, I might do GEM, I don't know yet but I want all the facts before I dive into something.0 -
Narkius Maximus wrote: »With an attitude like that I don't think you should bother. You have to be in the system to change it, you have to want to change it, have to want to help a little each day.
I really don't want to implicate something/put words into your mouth, just looking for your opinion on the question: After saying that, do you feel as if all the doctors who are leaving Ireland for Oz/NZ/etc are being defeatist? Or do you feel a bit disappointed to see them go?
Obviously there are many different and varying reasons why Irish docs are leaving to work elsewhere, but presumably the main reason is working conditions.
I just mean that I could echo McDermla's thoughts on being a bit put off by the current situation. As a hopeful med student at some time in the future, I'm super enthusiastic about it, but reading threads here makes you wonder about the bigger picture, about whether I would do it even with the situation as it is.
Interested to hear your response!0 -
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In what way exactly?
I'm sorry but I find that difficult to accept.
Have you ever been given your own patient group to care for alone?
What year are you in?
I'm not trying to offend anybody, and I'm sorry you took me up wrong. I'm halfway through my degree, but that's irrelevant anyway, considering my opinion of the job is obviously subjective. I've been told in great detail the role of the nurse, as you can imagine, in college and from qualified nurses. So I have a good idea of what's ahead of me.
In terms of taking care of patients, I've never worked in a critical care/ICU/A&E situation if that's what you're after.
I know nursing is challenging, I'm not saying it's not, but I don't feel like it would be enough for me as my heart is not fully in it. I did it because I figured it'd be the best course I could do before medicine, and I think I was right because I've learned so much, and it opened my eyes to how much nurses do. Also, I thought that maybe I'd actually quite like it and forget about medicine. Although I like it, it hasn't changed my mind about doing medicine. There's nothing wrong with that, I don't see how my personal career goal could be offensive to anyone.
And can I just add that while I welcome all opinions regarding the subject of my thread, I'd rather not suffer passive aggressive comments on my naivety about nursing. Like I said, I don't want to offend anybody, but I don't want to do nursing. I can't believe I just typed that.0 -
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Can I ask you Narkius what sort of initiation process is there between graduating and starting internship?? From what I've heard students finish exams in May and start internship end of June0
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Ireland is one of the only countries in the world where nurses still have to do dirty work, ?
That is so inaccurate. I lived and worked in the UK and a nurse here gets a lot more respect than their conterparts over there. The money here is a lot better fon't be defeatist before you start. Starting sal in the UK can be as little as £21,000!0 -
That is so inaccurate. I lived and worked in the UK and a nurse here gets a lot more respect than their conterparts over there. The money here is a lot better fon't be defeatist before you start. Starting sal in the UK can be as little as £21,000!
Ouch! But again, did not start this thread to focus on what I dislike about nursing. Hope you don't intend a trip back to the UK any time soon though!0 -
Can I ask you Narkius what sort of initiation process is there between graduating and starting internship?? From what I've heard students finish exams in May and start internship end of June
Eh, It's been a while but here goes.....
1) Finish exams
2) Book extended holiday (it'll be the last one you get, unless you go travelling)-unfortunately I didn't do that because I put off having surgery for my final year so it wouldn't disrupt my study.
3) Party
4) Graduate
5) Go on said holiday
6) Do 1-2 days induction course (dependes where you are starting)
7) Go Party again-celebrate the last of your studenthood
8) Start July 1st, wide eyed, keen, ready to take on the world
9) Finish July 1/Early hours July 2nd, a little brown trousered and the realisation that 6years of medical school does not prepare you for that.
Hope that's clear-there is little or no initiation0 -
I really don't want to implicate something/put words into your mouth, just looking for your opinion on the question: After saying that, do you feel as if all the doctors who are leaving Ireland for Oz/NZ/etc are being defeatist? Or do you feel a bit disappointed to see them go?
Obviously there are many different and varying reasons why Irish docs are leaving to work elsewhere, but presumably the main reason is working conditions.
I just mean that I could echo McDermla's thoughts on being a bit put off by the current situation. As a hopeful med student at some time in the future, I'm super enthusiastic about it, but reading threads here makes you wonder about the bigger picture, about whether I would do it even with the situation as it is.
Interested to hear your response!
Most of my mates who left for Oz/ NZ, just went as a year out, did some travel, worked for a while, then came back to work in the Irish System. Of my class who were Irish, roughly 130 or so, only 4 have truely emigrated, for various personal (3 girl/boy) reasons and one left to train in Neuro in the states because he'd have to wait 4-5years to get onto SpR due to number of people waiting to do it, never for working conditions, although they aren't pleasant at times. I'm not a stage that my friends are having to emigrate for further training, that's in the next 2-3 years, my wife and I will prob have to head to US, she's a doctor too.
No where have i ever said I consider my friends or colleagues defeatist. I feel sorry for those that feel they have to leave, but I'm still in contact with them all. Your friend are your friends no matter where they are.
My original point was, someone on the outside, states that they want to study medicine, but frets the little stuff like work conditions etc etc. In all likelihood how many years will it be until you guys graduate? 5,6,7 years perhaps. I'd concentrate on studying, qualifying with good degrees. Certain things change over time, I wouldn't fret, perhaps things will get better. To express a desire to want to do something, for it to be your passion, and then worry about something that will always be out of your control is defeatist.0 -
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Narkius Maximus wrote: »My original point was, someone on the outside, states that they want to study medicine, but frets the little stuff like work conditions etc etc. In all likelihood how many years will it be until you guys graduate? 5,6,7 years perhaps. I'd concentrate on studying, qualifying with good degrees. Certain things change over time, I wouldn't fret, perhaps things will get better. To express a desire to want to do something, for it to be your passion, and then worry about something that will always be out of your control is defeatist.
To be honest I think the medical students and perspective medical students here are perfectly entitled to worry about the "little stuff like work conditions etc etc."
I am two years off graduating, will be in my late 20's when I finish. Perhaps I was naive when I started medicine, I knew the working conditions would be tough but perhaps thought that job satisfaction would compensate. Now I know that at some stage I will also like to be able to have a family and a life outside medicine. Don't get me wrong I love everything about medicine (being on rotations now has made me even more enthusiastic about my future career) but I dont want to have to put having a family and a home life on hold because im too busy working.
Also the opinions on boards - particularly the thread on the ETWD has been particularly offputting.
I dont think I am being defeatist. Im being realistic.0 -
Narkius Maximus wrote: »Eh, It's been a while but here goes.....
1) Finish exams
2) Book extended holiday (it'll be the last one you get, unless you go travelling)-unfortunately I didn't do that because I put off having surgery for my final year so it wouldn't disrupt my study.
3) Party
4) Graduate
5) Go on said holiday
6) Do 1-2 days induction course (dependes where you are starting)
7) Go Party again-celebrate the last of your studenthood
8) Start July 1st, wide eyed, keen, ready to take on the world
9) Finish July 1/Early hours July 2nd, a little brown trousered and the realisation that 6years of medical school does not prepare you for that.
Hope that's clear-there is little or no initiation
That's awful! There should be some kind of initiation, anything to prepare interns for ward life. Not the best comparison but I remember my first day on a ward as a student nurse I got a tongue lashing for not having a pen with me. No one told I'd need a pen! Seems like a pretty obvious thing now but I had no idea about reports in the morning or the amount of abbreviations we were expected to know, as we hadn't done them in class. I spent 13 and a half hours that day being barked orders at and berated for not knowing the routine. Even an hour in college going over that would have made a difference. I wonder if the US/Oz/NZ have better strategies.0 -
To be honest I think the medical students and perspective medical students here are perfectly entitled to worry about the "little stuff like work conditions etc etc."
I am two years off graduating, will be in my late 20's when I finish. Perhaps I was naive when I started medicine, I knew the working conditions would be tough but perhaps thought that job satisfaction would compensate. Now I know that at some stage I will also like to be able to have a family and a life outside medicine. Don't get me wrong I love everything about medicine (being on rotations now has made me even more enthusiastic about my future career) but I dont want to have to put having a family and a home life on hold because im too busy working.
Also the opinions on boards - particularly the thread on the ETWD has been particularly offputting.
I dont think I am being defeatist. Im being realistic.
The family situation is a worry for me too, I can cope with not having the best social life, not having my weekends free, etc, as I've always tended to have anti social jobs with long hours (not as long as medicine tho!)
Reading posts by doctors who hate their jobs really pissed me off because at the end of the day if someone wants to go and pursue medicine, nothing will really put them off. I also don't understand why these doctors don't just quit and move into education or research, obviously neglecting their patients would be a factor but other doctors will replace them anyway.
I'm a student nurse so I know a fair bit about hospital routines and what doctors do, about how certain conditions affect patients, what medications are necessary to treat various disorders, etc., yet those posts still made me feel naive for wanting to do medicine. I don't mean to sound defeatist, I'm trying to be realistic too, and I don't mind if I have to move later on if it gives me the best chance in life. I don't want to work in crappy working conditions; I want to be as well trained as possible and do the best for my patients. I hope the EWTD is taken seriously soon because I don't see how doing such long shifts could be anything but a hazard to a patient.0 -
I'm a student nurse so I know a fair bit about hospital routines and what doctors do, about how certain conditions affect patients, what medications are necessary to treat various disorders, etc., yet those posts still made me feel naive for wanting to do medicine. I don't mean to sound defeatist, I'm trying to be realistic too, and I don't mind if I have to move later on if it gives me the best chance in life. I don't want to work in crappy working conditions; I want to be as well trained as possible and do the best for my patients. I hope the EWTD is taken seriously soon because I don't see how doing such long shifts could be anything but a hazard to a patient.
The EWTD came into effect in 2005. 5 years on and essentially nothing. My intern hadnt started started medical school when it was passed into law. Its not just the lack of free time, its the total exhaustion that kills what few free hours you have. Even if if it doesn't, the postgrad exams and waste of space audits you end up being forced into will.0 -
billybigunz, if you don't have something constructive to say then please don't post.
post deleted and poster banned0 -
I feel like I just avoided a horrible insulting post. Phew! Thanks mod0
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The EWTD came into effect in 2005. 5 years on and essentially nothing. My intern hadnt started started medical school when it was passed into law. Its not just the lack of free time, its the total exhaustion that kills what few free hours you have. Even if if it doesn't, the postgrad exams and waste of space audits you end up being forced into will.
In all honesty there's no such thing as an easy job. Every occupation requires a certain amount of extra work.0 -
In all honesty there's no such thing as an easy job. Every occupation requires a certain amount of extra work.
LOL. Maybe you should have a chat with the porters at your hospital. Insanely easy job, good money, no responsibility, 12 weeks off per year ( 6 weeks annual leave plus 6 weeks sick leave) and you can sit on your ass half the day watching tv or playing poker. Believe me if they ever interview ill be down there in a shot.0 -
LOL. Maybe you should have a chat with the porters at your hospital. Insanely easy job, good money, no responsibility, 12 weeks off per year ( 6 weeks annual leave plus 6 weeks sick leave) and you can sit on your ass half the day watching tv or playing poker. Believe me if they ever interview ill be down there in a shot.
yep i know where you're coming from but theres also the boredom factor lol. I don't think i'd last a day or two doing that job.0 -
Narkius Maximus wrote: »No where have i ever said I consider my friends or colleagues defeatist.
I didn't want to implicate that in my first post, I hope I didn't!Narkius Maximus wrote: »My original point was, someone on the outside, states that they want to study medicine, but frets the little stuff like work conditions etc etc.
Its reassuring that you can call it the small stuff, for some other posters here it seems as if its too much to call it that. And hopefully the situation will only get better.. So if I ever do make it to studying med I would be doing as you suggested, studying hard and getting a good degree0 -
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LOL. Maybe you should have a chat with the porters at your hospital. Insanely easy job, good money, no responsibility, 12 weeks off per year ( 6 weeks annual leave plus 6 weeks sick leave) and you can sit on your ass half the day watching tv or playing poker. Believe me if they ever interview ill be down there in a shot.
No you won't! But I agree with you. I had a three week placement in theatre and the porters were like a special little clique who teased the students (I was called 'Sister' more times than I care to remember, but at least I wasn't the only one) and sat around doing nothing a lot of the time. And they were terrible with patients, especially when moving them from the beds to the surgical table, pulling off their blankets and allowing them to lie naked and exposed for way too long in front of a room full of people, just so they could get an earlier smoke break, how indignant is that? And there's a lot of care assistants who won't do their jobs because 'the students are here,' so you spend more time doing their work than actually learning anything. The doctors and nurses are obliging to students, pity no one else is.0 -
Reading posts by doctors who hate their jobs really pissed me off because at the end of the day if someone wants to go and pursue medicine, nothing will really put them off. I also don't understand why these doctors don't just quit and move into education or research.
mcdermla, no offence but you seem to have the idealism and zealousness of someone who doesnt actually know what they are talking about.
you say you know a lot about hospitals and what doctors do - you dont. full stop. until you have stayed with a doctor for every minute of a 56 hour shift, been there through all the jobs that are actually someone else's, all the ridiculous calls, all the be-in-5-places-at-once-scenarios, all the "lunches" that consist of a banana wolfed down on the go if you're lucky, etc you just dont know what you are talking about.
i love my job, and i can honestly say that i would not want to be anything other than a psychiatrist.
however, that does not mean i have to wax lyrical or even keep quiet about my working conditions, which make my job hard. it's a few years since i did in-house call, but when i did i used keep a lightbulb in my on-call bag. this was because the rooms we were given did not have fcuking lightbulbs in them!! there were maybe 3 lightbulbs between 8 rooms, and they were constantly being stolen/switched between rooms, so i ended up bringing my own. you'll probably say why didnt i get maintenance to sort it - yeah right! that same res gave you a choice of 2 showers to freshen up in the morning - one had cold water but there was a light in the bathroom, alternatively you could have a hot shower but you would have to do it in the dark.
and this was in one of teh country's biggest hospitals.
they are simply appalling conditions.
it may not seem like a big deal here, but if you are facing thsoe conditions 1 in every 3 or 4 nights, for years at a time, utterly exhausted and having to put up with that crap, it wears you down.
i dont "quit" as you put it and move into education or research, because i love my job, its the associated crap i hate.
but its extremely sanctimonious of you, or anyone who is not in the system, to suggest that those who tell the blunt unpalatable truth should "just quit"0 -
i love my job, and i can honestly say that i would not want to be anything other than a psychiatrist.
but its extremely sanctimonious of you, or anyone who is not in the system, to suggest that those who tell the blunt unpalatable truth should "just quit"
Sam, you are dead right - indeed you have a duty to tell the blunt unpalatable truth. But two things:
1. Without actually doing anything about it, moaning is just that; moaning - and people tire of it pretty quickly. Everybody needs to vent (at 2am in the pub on a Friday night especially), but ultimately wothout doing something, anything, its all just dead air. All NCHDs moan. They are the best moaners out there; but when it comes to doing something - and I dont mean storming the Dail, I mean some small local action at their Hospital - they are rubbish.
2. If you are going to tell the truth, actually tell it, and tell it properly; that familiar refrain of 'I'd take the job as a porter in a heartbeat' is just nonsense - a lie. And if it is the truth, then why in god's name are you still where you are.... At least have the honesty to say, as you do, that you love your job despite the sh!t. It reminds me of the idiots who, after every exam, would tell you how they defintely failed etc..... but you know there wasnt a snowball's chance in hell that they did. It is drama queen posturing for the masses, and it is highly irritating.0 -
Sam, you are dead right - indeed you have a duty to tell the blunt unpalatable truth. But two things:
1. Without actually doing anything about it, moaning is just that; moaning - and people tire of it pretty quickly. Everybody needs to vent (at 2am in the pub on a Friday night especially), but ultimately wothout doing something, anything, its all just dead air. All NCHDs moan. They are the best moaners out there; but when it comes to doing something - and I dont mean storming the Dail, I mean some small local action at their Hospital - they are rubbish.
too true, i'm definitely a moaner, not a changer!2. If you are going to tell the truth, actually tell it, and tell it properly; that familiar refrain of 'I'd take the job as a porter in a heartbeat' is just nonsense - a lie. And if it is the truth, then why in god's name are you still where you are.... At least have the honesty to say, as you do, that you love your job despite the sh!t. It reminds me of the idiots who, after every exam, would tell you how they defintely failed etc..... but you know there wasnt a snowball's chance in hell that they did. It is drama queen posturing for the masses, and it is highly irritating.
i agree.
knowing what i do now about the job, i'd still do it all again in a heartbeat.0 -
I'm studying nursing in Trinity and it's ok but I always wanted to do medicine but I'm totally put off by the appalling standards of healthcare here. I know this isn't news but has it always been this bad?? Seriously? I'm 23 and I can't remember a time when there wasn't some problems with it. Ireland is one of the only countries in the world where nurses still have to do dirty work, thus becoming de-skilled (and believe me the degree course is no walk in the park), patients are left for hours on end on trollies due to lack of beds, old people are left in hospital for months at a time because they can't afford home help and there seems to be no money to help them, if you need surgery or a scan you could be waiting up to two years, etc. I'm not trying to blame any doctors here, I'm aware you're just cogs in the machine, I just cannot for the life of me comprehend why people come from countries all over the world to study or practice medicine and nursing when the country is a mess. Should I just leave the country if I want to pursue anything health-related??
I'm not going to pick apart your post. I don't think that would be totally fair tbh.
I have question though?
What do you call "the dirty work" and how sure are you that this work is only something that nurses do in Ireland, and not in other countries. I'll say no more til you come back and talk about your experiences etc.mcdermla, no offence but you seem to have the idealism and zealousness of someone who doesnt actually know what they are talking about.
you say you know a lot about hospitals and what doctors do - you dont. full stop. until you have stayed with a doctor for every minute of a 56 hour shift, been there through all the jobs that are actually someone else's, all the ridiculous calls, all the be-in-5-places-at-once-scenarios, all the "lunches" that consist of a banana wolfed down on the go if you're lucky, etc you just dont know what you are talking about.
i love my job, and i can honestly say that i would not want to be anything other than a psychiatrist.
however, that does not mean i have to wax lyrical or even keep quiet about my working conditions, which make my job hard. it's a few years since i did in-house call, but when i did i used keep a lightbulb in my on-call bag. this was because the rooms we were given did not have fcuking lightbulbs in them!! there were maybe 3 lightbulbs between 8 rooms, and they were constantly being stolen/switched between rooms, so i ended up bringing my own. you'll probably say why didnt i get maintenance to sort it - yeah right! that same res gave you a choice of 2 showers to freshen up in the morning - one had cold water but there was a light in the bathroom, alternatively you could have a hot shower but you would have to do it in the dark.
and this was in one of teh country's biggest hospitals.
they are simply appalling conditions.
it may not seem like a big deal here, but if you are facing thsoe conditions 1 in every 3 or 4 nights, for years at a time, utterly exhausted and having to put up with that crap, it wears you down.
i dont "quit" as you put it and move into education or research, because i love my job, its the associated crap i hate.
but its extremely sanctimonious of you, or anyone who is not in the system, to suggest that those who tell the blunt unpalatable truth should "just quit"
Will maybe not going quite as far as Sam34 I've been reading this thread since it started and my thoughts are very similar. This ain't ER/Srcubs etc. This is real life now. Its not fluffy bunnys or sweetness and light. Its death, vomit and people ****ting on ya. I think maybe you need to look back and decide what YOU think the fundamentals of nursing are. We are not mini-doctors, and shouldn't claim to be. We are professionals in our own right, and should seek to develop our skills and competencies in the field we work in, not try and latch onto someones else, for a bit of kudos.0 -
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mcdermla, no offence but you seem to have the idealism and zealousness of someone who doesnt actually know what they are talking about.
you say you know a lot about hospitals and what doctors do - you dont. full stop. until you have stayed with a doctor for every minute of a 56 hour shift, been there through all the jobs that are actually someone else's, all the ridiculous calls, all the be-in-5-places-at-once-scenarios, all the "lunches" that consist of a banana wolfed down on the go if you're lucky, etc you just dont know what you are talking about.
i love my job, and i can honestly say that i would not want to be anything other than a psychiatrist.
however, that does not mean i have to wax lyrical or even keep quiet about my working conditions, which make my job hard. it's a few years since i did in-house call, but when i did i used keep a lightbulb in my on-call bag. this was because the rooms we were given did not have fcuking lightbulbs in them!! there were maybe 3 lightbulbs between 8 rooms, and they were constantly being stolen/switched between rooms, so i ended up bringing my own. you'll probably say why didnt i get maintenance to sort it - yeah right! that same res gave you a choice of 2 showers to freshen up in the morning - one had cold water but there was a light in the bathroom, alternatively you could have a hot shower but you would have to do it in the dark.
and this was in one of teh country's biggest hospitals.
they are simply appalling conditions.
it may not seem like a big deal here, but if you are facing thsoe conditions 1 in every 3 or 4 nights, for years at a time, utterly exhausted and having to put up with that crap, it wears you down.
i dont "quit" as you put it and move into education or research, because i love my job, its the associated crap i hate.
but its extremely sanctimonious of you, or anyone who is not in the system, to suggest that those who tell the blunt unpalatable truth should "just quit"
What did I say that sounded idealistic? And when did I say I knew absolutely everything doctors do?? I said I've worked in hospitals a lot and have seen doctors work; I've bleeped interns, I've been told how much I can do and how much they have to do, I've spoken to weary interns complaining about being used as secretaries, etc. I never said I knew everything, I don't. I just said I'm not put off by it.
When did I imply that you, personally, should quit? I didn't. I also don't understand why I've been called sanctimonious (surely sanctimonious people are the ones who know what they're talking about?!) for wondering why these doctors don't quit. I was simply putting it out there so as to get an explanation for it. It's not just here, I know doctors who say they hate their job.
I didn't start this thread to get into a debate about how much I do/don't know about the job of a doctor. I'm honestly not interested in having these kind of conversations, no offence, but I don't find them helpful, just feels like you're patronising me tbh.0 -
I'm not going to pick apart your post. I don't think that would be totally fair tbh.
I have question though?
What do you call "the dirty work" and how sure are you that this work is only something that nurses do in Ireland, and not in other countries. I'll say no more til you come back and talk about your experiences etc.
Will maybe not going quite as far as Sam34 I've been reading this thread since it started and my thoughts are very similar. This ain't ER/Srcubs etc. This is real life now. Its not fluffy bunnys or sweetness and light. Its death, vomit and people ****ting on ya. I think maybe you need to look back and decide what YOU think the fundamentals of nursing are. We are not mini-doctors, and shouldn't claim to be. We are professionals in our own right, and should seek to develop our skills and competencies in the field we work in, not try and latch onto someones else, for a bit of kudos.
First of all, when did I say 'Oh it looks nice on tv I wanna do that' ??!? I don't understand the relevance to that statement. I'm also aware of the blatant lack of fluffy bunnies (they would be a source of infection surely), and I know people die, I've cared for people with PCAs, I know about palliative care, etc. I also know about bodily functions, the student nurses always tend to be the experts in them. The fact that Ireland might not be the one of the only countries in the world where nurses do dirty work only drives me further away from the profession; I don't mind bodily functions but when you're expected to change all the patients so the care assistant can wander around and do nothing?? No, I don't care for that. I appreciate what you're trying to do but it really does not answer the question I was asking.0 -
Also Sam can I just ask, were you not somewhat idealistic going into medicine?? Isn't everyone? Surely you wouldn't pick a course you thought would be terrible, and like you said, you love your job so it must be worth it.0
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What did I say that sounded idealistic?
this, for starters:at the end of the day if someone wants to go and pursue medicine, nothing will really put them off.And when did I say I knew absolutely everything doctors do?? I never said I knew everything, I don't. I just said I'm not put off by it.
you never said you know everything. however, neither did i say that you said that. AFAIR, my words were "you say you know a lot..."When did I imply that you, personally, should quit? I didn't.
you wondered the following:I also don't understand why these doctors don't just quit and move into education or research
so I gave my personal answer to thatI also don't understand why I've been called sanctimonious (surely sanctimonious people are the ones who know what they're talking about?!) for wondering why these doctors don't quit. I was simply putting it out there so as to get an explanation for it. It's not just here, I know doctors who say they hate their job.
sanctimonious meaning self-righteousI didn't start this thread to get into a debate about how much I do/don't know about the job of a doctor. I'm honestly not interested in having these kind of conversations, no offence, but I don't find them helpful, just feels like you're patronising me tbh.
well, tbh, i'd read this and all the other threads about medicine as a career very carefully if i were you or anyone else considering it.
there is very valuable information here that you wont find at any university open day.
i would have loved to have been more forewarned and less naive than i was when i started college and indeed work. i hadnta clue what was in store for me.
you make statements like:I don't want to work in crappy working conditions
yet you "dont find it helpful" when you are given the warts-and-all, real life, straight-from-horses-mouth view of what the working conditions actually are0
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