Doctors and nurses-are you happy here?

sam34

mcdermla wrote: »

Also Sam can I just ask, were you not somewhat idealistic going into medicine?? Isn't everyone? Surely you wouldn't pick a course you thought would be terrible, and like you said, you love your job so it must be worth it.

yes i was, hugely so. i hadnt a clue what lay ahead.

but i didnt go about claiming to know either!

and, tbh, looking back, i'd have loved to have gotten a heads up from someone who did know.

forewarned is forearmed.

sam34

drkpower wrote: »

Said the actress to the bishop...;)

well played dr power !

Dozen Wicked Words

Don't like OPs attitude to either profession. Sounds like treating Nursing as a runner up prize from Medicine. Dirty work? ffs, do you mean personal care? The best thing any preceptor could do for you is fail you so you can re-evaluate your career pathway, but not sure you would be an asset to Medicine either.

mcdermla

Sam, in the other posts I mentioned that I read posts by doctors who didn't like their jobs and wouldn't recommend doing medicine. At no point did I say ALL doctors. If you paid attention to that post I clearly said, 'why THESE doctors.....' And that still hasn't been addressed btw. I wanted to know why they wouldn't just leave their jobs and do something else, I was putting a question out there, and rather than have it answered I was called sanctimonious.
I also mentioned that those particular doctors and their scare tactics weren't going to work on people wishing to pursue medicine. I didn't mean myself specifically. I've read all the posts about people wanting to do medicine, I've read all the replies, I didn't start this thread to have it all regurgitated. I'm not a 16 yr old trying to figure out LC subjects.
Of course I don't want crappy working conditions, who does? If you had the choice of having crappy working conditions here, or better ones abroad, which would you choose? I have experience in hospitals, I'm being educated on pharmo, anatomy, etc., I've spoken to interns, to say I don't know anything is offensive. I'm not basing my desire to do medicine on that anyway, I'm simply saying I have an interest in it. Things change in two years I mightn't do any kind of post grad, it was a hypothetical question asking if the working conditions are better abroad, a fairly standard, harmless question imo.
And I'd appreciate you not breaking down every sentence I type and correcting it. If you can't answer my question, fine, but I've read all the 'warts-and-all' posts already.

Anthony16

i was seriously considering medicine earlier this year but these stories have definitely turned me off.My parents keep pressuring me to get medicine instead of doing veterinary but these insanely long shifts and not being paid for 80-90 hours overtime per month and still trying to take care of patients seems brutal.
Thanks for telling the truth guys

Narkius Maximus

just-joe wrote: »

I didn't want to implicate that in my first post, I hope I didn't!

It wasn't directed at you.

just-joe wrote: »

Its reassuring that you can call it the small stuff, for some other posters here it seems as if its too much to call it that. And hopefully the situation will only get better.. So if I ever do make it to studying med I would be doing as you suggested, studying hard and getting a good degree

Good attitude, pin the ears back and gun for it. See you on the wards.

mcdermla

dooferoaks wrote: »

Don't like OPs attitude to either profession. Sounds like treating Nursing as a runner up prize from Medicine. Dirty work? ffs, do you mean personal care? The best thing any preceptor could do for you is fail you so you can re-evaluate your career pathway, but not sure you would be an asset to Medicine either.

When did I imply that that was the dirty work? That was your assumption. I've worked in wards where nurses get treated like **** and run errands that aren't in their job. Care assistants are trained for personal care also and in a lot of countries, including India and South Africa, it's only care assistants who do it, as they're trained to look out for signs of infection, bleeding, pressure sores, etc. Yes, I'd rather not change nappies forever; say what you like about personal care, there's a lot of elderly people in hospitals who aren't sick anymore, simply their families won't take them home, or else there isn't enough money to get these people home help. I don't mind caring for sick people, but when the case is that these people aren't sick, I find it hard to give them more time and, sad as it is, they shouldn't be there, end of story. In America there are far more state run nursing homes so the above situation isn't a problem there, which is good as everyone gets all round care. I don't mind personal care, but there are other aspects of the job I'd rather focus on. I know a lot of people who go into medicine from nursing, there's nothing wrong with it. For the record, my preceptors have all liked me, said I have good communication skills and that I have a keen interest in healthcare. Just because I don't agree with the system doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

mcdermla

Anthony16 wrote: »

i was seriously considering medicine earlier this year but these stories have definitely turned me off.My parents keep pressuring me to get medicine instead of doing veterinary but these insanely long shifts and not being paid for 80-90 hours overtime per month and still trying to take care of patients seems brutal.
Thanks for telling the truth guys

There's loads more posts you can look at; show this one to your parents: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055799819.

Narkius Maximus

sam34 wrote: »

i used keep a lightbulb in my on-call bag. this was because the rooms we were given did not have fcuking lightbulbs

Seriously? Holy crap!

Dozen Wicked Words

mcdermla wrote: »

I don't mind personal care, but there are other aspects of the job I'd rather focus on. Just because I don't agree with the system doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

So what aspect of the job did you want to focus on, not really getting any sense of it, other than medicine from your posts.


Don't say you are a bad person, just think you will make a bad nurse. Actually I don't think you will make a bad nurse because I don't think you will do any nursing, just use your degree as a stepping stone to something else.

Anthony16

mcdermla wrote: »

When did I imply that that was the dirty work? That was your assumption. I've worked in wards where nurses get treated like **** and run errands that aren't in their job. Care assistants are trained for personal care also and in a lot of countries, including India and South Africa, it's only care assistants who do it, as they're trained to look out for signs of infection, bleeding, pressure sores, etc. Yes, I'd rather not change nappies forever; say what you like about personal care, there's a lot of elderly people in hospitals who aren't sick anymore, simply their families won't take them home, or else there isn't enough money to get these people home help. I don't mind caring for sick people, but when the case is that these people aren't sick, I find it hard to give them more time and, sad as it is, they shouldn't be there, end of story. In America there are far more state run nursing homes so the above situation isn't a problem there, which is good as everyone gets all round care. I don't mind personal care, but there are other aspects of the job I'd rather focus on. I know a lot of people who go into medicine from nursing, there's nothing wrong with it. For the record, my preceptors have all liked me, said I have good communication skills and that I have a keen interest in healthcare. Just because I don't agree with the system doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

Hate to be candid,but i dont think anyone gives a ****

mcdermla

dooferoaks wrote: »

Don't say you are a bad person, just think you will make a bad nurse. Actually I don't think you will make a bad nurse because I don't think you will do any nursing, just use your degree as a stepping stone to something else.

What an awful thing to say to someone you don't even know. How dare you make that kind of an assumption based on the fact that I have a different opinion to you. That's appalling you should be ashamed of yourself.

mcdermla

Anthony16 wrote: »

Hate to be candid,but i dont think anyone gives a ****

So don't read it, don't even comment. It was a response for someone else.

Narkius Maximus

Anthony16 wrote: »

i was seriously considering medicine earlier this year but these stories have definitely turned me off.My parents keep pressuring me to get medicine instead of doing veterinary but these insanely long shifts and not being paid for 80-90 hours overtime per month and still trying to take care of patients seems brutal.
Thanks for telling the truth guys

Ever hear of lambing or calving season-that looks like torture, and the fact that you work for yourself means you can't turn down business. Do what ever you want, don't let your parents decide your future.

sam34

Narkius Maximus wrote: »

Seriously? Holy crap!

yep, i'm not making this up!

mcdermla

Narkius Maximus wrote: »

Ever hear of lambing or calving season-that looks like torture, and the fact that you work for yourself means you can't turn down business. Do what ever you want, don't let your parents decide your future.

Agreed! Your parents don't always know what's best for you

Dozen Wicked Words

mcdermla wrote: »

What an awful thing to say to someone you don't even know. How dare you make that kind of an assumption based on the fact that I have a different opinion to you. That's appalling you should be ashamed of yourself.

(sorry there is no ashamed smiley). I'm sure you will have a long and wonderful career nursing in whatever mystical wonderland you find where nurses don't have to go too near those horrible things called patients. :pac::pac:

sam34

mcdermla wrote: »

Sam, in the other posts I mentioned that I read posts by doctors who didn't like their jobs and wouldn't recommend doing medicine. At no point did I say ALL doctors. If you paid attention to that post I clearly said, 'why THESE doctors.....' And that still hasn't been addressed btw. I wanted to know why they wouldn't just leave their jobs and do something else, I was putting a question out there, and rather than have it answered I was called sanctimonious.
I also mentioned that those particular doctors and their scare tactics weren't going to work on people wishing to pursue medicine. I didn't mean myself specifically. I've read all the posts about people wanting to do medicine, I've read all the replies, I didn't start this thread to have it all regurgitated. I'm not a 16 yr old trying to figure out LC subjects.
Of course I don't want crappy working conditions, who does? If you had the choice of having crappy working conditions here, or better ones abroad, which would you choose? I have experience in hospitals, I'm being educated on pharmo, anatomy, etc., I've spoken to interns, to say I don't know anything is offensive. I'm not basing my desire to do medicine on that anyway, I'm simply saying I have an interest in it. Things change in two years I mightn't do any kind of post grad, it was a hypothetical question asking if the working conditions are better abroad, a fairly standard, harmless question imo.
And I'd appreciate you not breaking down every sentence I type and correcting it. If you can't answer my question, fine, but I've read all the 'warts-and-all' posts already.

"breaking down every sentence" is simply multi-quoting to make the post clearer as people address posts in turn.

i have had teh choice between crappy working conditions here and better ones abroad, and ive chosen to stay here, for personal reasons.

but in any event i simply couldnt be bothered replying to you anymore, as you're determined not to take on board anything that anyone more experienced says to you, and forge ahead with your own view of things.

you'll learn in time, the hard way.

mcdermla

sam34 wrote: »

"breaking down every sentence" is simply multi-quoting to make the post clearer as people address posts in turn.

i have had teh choice between crappy working conditions here and better ones abroad, and ive chosen to stay here, for personal reasons.

but in any event i simply couldnt be bothered replying to you anymore, as you're determined not to take on board anything that anyone more experienced says to you, and forge ahead with your own view of things.

you'll learn in time, the hard way.

I'm not trying to start an argument I'm just looking for my original question to be answered. Like I said, I mightn't go on to do medicine at all, and I've already read all the posts about it as a career. Thanks for your input tho

mcdermla

dooferoaks wrote: »

(sorry there is no ashamed smiley). I'm sure you will have a long and wonderful career nursing in whatever mystical wonderland you find where nurses don't have to go too near those horrible things called patients. :pac::pac:

Grow up. Your bedside manner is far from perfect from what I can tell

Dozen Wicked Words

mcdermla wrote: »

Grow up. Your bedside manner is far from perfect from what I can tell

When talking to student nurses who don't want to nurse its terrible.

Anthony16

Narkius Maximus wrote: »

Ever hear of lambing or calving season-that looks like torture, and the fact that you work for yourself means you can't turn down business. Do what ever you want, don't let your parents decide your future.

True.I plan to specialise abroad in smallies anyway so wont be a problem.

mcdermla

dooferoaks wrote: »

When talking to student nurses who don't want to nurse its terrible.

If you read my other posts you'll know that I do like my course and hoped that it would turn into something I wanted to it, sadly it hasn't. Nursing is an excellent respectable job I never said it wasn't. I said I'm not interested in pursuing it professionally in this country because the healthcare system is awful. There are a lot of student nurses unhappy with nursing, as there are pharmacy students unhappy with pharmacy, and so on. I wanted to know if medicine and nursing are better abroad. If you don't know that answer please don't berate me, it's insensitive.

Dozen Wicked Words

Nursing is similar in uk and nz. Do yourself a favour and do something else.

matc66

In my opinion the Irish health service, underfunded as it is, is at least a somewhat equitable system. If nursing in India or South Africa attracts you go ahead but I'd be scared to death of working in those systems.
Despite all its failings I still like our health service.

So I would advise deciding simply whether you like medicine or nursing. You already have had a taste of nursing and seem not to be entirely taken by it. Granted you could leave all the ward based nursing behind and go into a CNS role, but I presume you'd still have to work your way there.

Medicine is an entirely different job to nursing but has a lot of negatives. All that aside the positives still out weight them, I await the HSEs inevitable savaging of the training structures as it implements the EWTD or whatever it chooses to call it.

mcdermla

matc66 wrote: »

In my opinion the Irish health service, underfunded as it is, is at least a somewhat equitable system. If nursing in India or South Africa attracts you go ahead but I'd be scared to death of working in those systems.
Despite all its failings I still like our health service.

So I would advise deciding simply whether you like medicine or nursing. You already have had a taste of nursing and seem not to be entirely taken by it. Granted you could leave all the ward based nursing behind and go into a CNS role, but I presume you'd still have to work your way there.

Medicine is an entirely different job to nursing but has a lot of negatives. All that aside the positives still out weight them, I await the HSEs inevitable savaging of the training structures as it implements the EWTD or whatever it chooses to call it.

I'd be terrified to work in South Africa, with the crime rates and all, but a few girls in my course wanna go because it offers free accommodation. A LOT are going to Australia because they hear the conditions and pay are better over there, and a lot assume the hours are better, which I don't understand because over here it's only three long shifts a week and no over time which isn't enough really.
Being a CNS requires a post grad in the speciality you aim to go into (that's open to correction), it is an option. I've also been told to pursue becoming a CNM, but that's a lot of admin work and not much patient care.

I know they're totally different, I'm not claiming to have any advanced medical knowledge, but I feel I have an andvantage over potential medical students as I've cared for sick patients and seen the effects of disease. Thanks for your input, and answering my question directly!

Narkius Maximus

sam34 wrote: »

yep, i'm not making this up!

Awesome!!:eek:

tracker-man

mcdermla wrote: »

Also Sam can I just ask, were you not somewhat idealistic going into medicine?? Isn't everyone? Surely you wouldn't pick a course you thought would be terrible, and like you said, you love your job so it must be worth it.

sam34 wrote: »

yes i was, hugely so. i hadnt a clue what lay ahead.

but i didnt go about claiming to know either!

and, tbh, looking back, i'd have loved to have gotten a heads up from someone who did know.

forewarned is forearmed.

If you had been forewarned, would your decision to do medicine have been influenced in any way? If you had all the nasty details would you have considered something else? Or still done medicine...

Dr Galen

dooferoaks wrote: »

Nursing is similar in uk and nz.

and the US, OZ, France, Germany, Iceland, Finland, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Canada, Spain and Portugal.

I speak from some actual experience here, as I have friends working in all of the above countries and for 2 years in the not too distant past, ran an international organisation that catered specifically to the student nurse population. I can go on, but basically nursing is more or less the same everywhere.

OP your correct in that in many countries care assistants have enlarged roles, the UK and France are good examples of this, but the type of work the nurse does isn't that different to here. Believe me, there is no country that I can think of that offers what your looking for out of nursing.

CNS jobs are like hens teeth tbh. Your looking at least 4-5 years before your getting into that type of thing. Your wrong about CNMs not having much clinical work, but also right. It depends on the CNM tbh, some make clinical contact a hug part of the role, and some are more than happy to do the admin side of things and sit in the office. Its how you want to be as a CNM that defines the job, not the other way around.

I'm gong to give you some advice.

1) I think its great that you actually give a ****. Your not coming across great here, and maybe getting it in the neck a bit unfairly. Your new, and wet behind the ears, a lot of us are been around a fair bit. Maybe we should all take a step back and have a breather?

2) I don't know what year you are in, but being a student nurse is shiote. I was always cool to my students (esp if they were hot). Many nurse aren't, either because they are wagons in general, or they are just too busy. Don't base your whole career and your choices on your experience as a student. I guarantee you that you will do the wrong thing if you do that. I also can guarantee you that someday, close to the end, it will all just click, and you'll be a different nurse.

3) When you qualify, the difference is huuuuuuuuuuuuge. Its nothing like being a student. Believe me. I was (not trumpet blowing) an excellent student. I was liked, respected and actually had offers from several places to go work after I finished. The transition from student to nurse should have been no bother. It wasn't. Its was a serious eye opener, in both good and bad ways. Mostly good though. Stick it out. I get the feeling that your going through a rough patch, that will pass. Keep your head down, get a good degree, and you'll see what I mean.

4) When you qualify, find an area that interests you. Find 2 even. I have a particular interest in woundcare, and health economics. I'm a self confessed geek when it comes to those 2 areas. I read about them, get journals etc, scour the web for resources. In your first year, do the same. Cart before horse never works. Give it the year and you'll find areas that genuinely interest you. Then make your choices about specialising. Example : when i was training and really really really thought I'd end up loving paeds, and wanting to work there. I did the placement. HATED IT. (yes caps on thats how much i hated it). Made me realise that things change and things are fluid.

5) Medicine is not your only option. As a nurse, with good skills and and interest in a particular area, the private sector will love you. Either a private hospital, or a medically based company. That doesn't just include pharma btw, you'd be highly surprised who and what looks for good nurses to work for them. ANother personal example : I no longer work in the hospital system. I now get to combine my personal interests (wounds and economics) in a great job, working in private industry. DO I feel like a sellout? Not at all, I help patients every day. I was in an operating theatre til 10 last night helping a team out with a highly specialised product, which in all honesty will save that dudes life. Next week I have to sit down with a bunch of clinical papers and critique the models they have used for analysing healthcare spend in the acute-non acute sector. My work there will probably lead to the streamlining of HSE care pathways from hospital to home.

Moral of that story is that there is **** loads that you can with your degree. You seem to care, and want to make things better. I think you then have a moral responsibility then to try to do that, here. Big ask I know, but unless people like us actually do try, nothing ever changes.

Dozen Wicked Words

Dr Galen, to someone genuinely just wavering over their nursing career or deciding what part of nursing is for them, your post is, on the whole, very good. In this case however I think you are wasting your time.

Mcdermla doesn't want to be a nurse, she is being disingenuous in this thread if she says otherwise. I have no objection to someone wanting to be a Doctor, a Scientist or anything else, but piggy backing the career off a degree in Nursing is wrong. A waste of resources and time and takes away the place on the course that someone who actually values nursing might have been able to use.

mcdermla wrote: »

I'm currently halfway through a nursing degree, I failed a supplemental exam due to work commitments so now I'm 'off-the-books' and studying for the repeat in May. This year I've realised I don't want to be a nurse, as the 'care' parts are the parts of exams I inevitably go down in, and I'd like to pursue a career in science. I originally wanted to do medicine but it's not realistic for me. I was wondering is there any kind of post graduate available in haematology or AIDS that isn't specific to nursing?? I'd rather a science based career than a nursing one, thanks.

How did it go?? I'm doing nursing but wanna venture into medicine afterwards but scared the exam is too hard

So hang on you qualified as a teacher, did extra classes and then decided to go into medicine?? That is amazing, honestly, I take my hat off to you. I'm a student nurse and would love to get into medicine somehow, I have friends that are interns and I know my hospital inside out and what everyone does, a lot of the interns complain that they wanna go do nothing so you should be just fine! You'll probably be the one to watch actually, I've heard stories of doctors picking favourites based on work ethic.
If you chose to do your internship in the UK you could avoid the EWTD and get your debt paid off much quicker. Are you a mature student?

I'm interested in doing GEM, but I won't have my degree until I'm 25 and don't want to leave it too late to start GEM (assuming I get it/still wanna do it). I'm doing nursing and my internship (last year of my degree) will finish late September '12, will I be able to start the GEM course a couple of weeks late? Is it advisable to? I know it's ages away I just want to know what options I'll have once I'm finished my degree.

Anyway, have said my bit, I wont post again here cos I don't want to end up being banned for personal abuse.