Doctors and nurses-are you happy here?

mcdermla

Dr Galen wrote: »

and the US, OZ, France, Germany, Iceland, Finland, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Canada, Spain and Portugal.

I speak from some actual experience here, as I have friends working in all of the above countries and for 2 years in the not too distant past, ran an international organisation that catered specifically to the student nurse population. I can go on, but basically nursing is more or less the same everywhere.

OP your correct in that in many countries care assistants have enlarged roles, the UK and France are good examples of this, but the type of work the nurse does isn't that different to here. Believe me, there is no country that I can think of that offers what your looking for out of nursing.

CNS jobs are like hens teeth tbh. Your looking at least 4-5 years before your getting into that type of thing. Your wrong about CNMs not having much clinical work, but also right. It depends on the CNM tbh, some make clinical contact a hug part of the role, and some are more than happy to do the admin side of things and sit in the office. Its how you want to be as a CNM that defines the job, not the other way around.

I'm gong to give you some advice.

1) I think its great that you actually give a ****. Your not coming across great here, and maybe getting it in the neck a bit unfairly. Your new, and wet behind the ears, a lot of us are been around a fair bit. Maybe we should all take a step back and have a breather?

2) I don't know what year you are in, but being a student nurse is shiote. I was always cool to my students (esp if they were hot). Many nurse aren't, either because they are wagons in general, or they are just too busy. Don't base your whole career and your choices on your experience as a student. I guarantee you that you will do the wrong thing if you do that. I also can guarantee you that someday, close to the end, it will all just click, and you'll be a different nurse.

3) When you qualify, the difference is huuuuuuuuuuuuge. Its nothing like being a student. Believe me. I was (not trumpet blowing) an excellent student. I was liked, respected and actually had offers from several places to go work after I finished. The transition from student to nurse should have been no bother. It wasn't. Its was a serious eye opener, in both good and bad ways. Mostly good though. Stick it out. I get the feeling that your going through a rough patch, that will pass. Keep your head down, get a good degree, and you'll see what I mean.

4) When you qualify, find an area that interests you. Find 2 even. I have a particular interest in woundcare, and health economics. I'm a self confessed geek when it comes to those 2 areas. I read about them, get journals etc, scour the web for resources. In your first year, do the same. Cart before horse never works. Give it the year and you'll find areas that genuinely interest you. Then make your choices about specialising. Example : when i was training and really really really thought I'd end up loving paeds, and wanting to work there. I did the placement. HATED IT. (yes caps on thats how much i hated it). Made me realise that things change and things are fluid.

5) Medicine is not your only option. As a nurse, with good skills and and interest in a particular area, the private sector will love you. Either a private hospital, or a medically based company. That doesn't just include pharma btw, you'd be highly surprised who and what looks for good nurses to work for them. ANother personal example : I no longer work in the hospital system. I now get to combine my personal interests (wounds and economics) in a great job, working in private industry. DO I feel like a sellout? Not at all, I help patients every day. I was in an operating theatre til 10 last night helping a team out with a highly specialised product, which in all honesty will save that dudes life. Next week I have to sit down with a bunch of clinical papers and critique the models they have used for analysing healthcare spend in the acute-non acute sector. My work there will probably lead to the streamlining of HSE care pathways from hospital to home.

Moral of that story is that there is **** loads that you can with your degree. You seem to care, and want to make things better. I think you then have a moral responsibility then to try to do that, here. Big ask I know, but unless people like us actually do try, nothing ever changes.

Great post, really helpful! Like I said earlier, I am completely undecided about my career, if I'll stay in nursing or go ahead an do Gamsat, but I like knowing I have so many options. At the end of the day if I stay in nursing I want to do more than be a staff nurse on a ward; but for some reason people take offence when I say that. How challenging the job the job is is dependent on which ward you're on; so far I don't think it's for me.
I know what you're saying about CNMs, on a few wards I've worked on all they do is sit in the office and go on rounds, but in others they help out so much, again depends on the ward.
I'm halfway through for degree, I know what I do and don't want, and I think that's fair enough. I'm not claiming to be an expert in anything I just have a strong interest in healthcare, and want to wind up in it no matter what I do or where I do it. I'm glad you answered my question rather than rip apart what I say and find a problem with it.
I don't mind being a student nurse, because I take interest and ask questions, etc again it really depends where you are. I LOVED paeds tho, but I don't know if I could do it later on, seems like it would get pretty hard to do after a while.
Thanks for so much for your input!

mcdermla

dooferoaks wrote: »

Dr Galen, to someone genuinely just wavering over their nursing career or deciding what part of nursing is for them, your post is, on the whole, very good. In this case however I think you are wasting your time.

Mcdermla doesn't want to be a nurse, she is being disingenuous in this thread if she says otherwise. I have no objection to someone wanting to be a Doctor, a Scientist or anything else, but piggy backing the career off a degree in Nursing is wrong. A waste of resources and time and takes away the place on the course that someone who actually values nursing might have been able to use.



Anyway, have said my bit, I wont post again here cos I don't want to end up being banned for personal abuse.

Firstly can I just explain to those who don't know that in nursing exams you'll be asked to explain to care of a patient with certain conditions using the activities of daily living, eg maintaining a safe environment, communication, etc. The point I was trying to make was that I don't feel I'm suited to nursing as my answers don't seem to be bulky enough. It's the only exam I've ever failed in my life and only failed by two per cent. But I'm only halfway through my degree so there's room for improvement. I do better in the more science-based questions, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. How convenient to put that sentence in bold rather than the part where I say I'd like to work with people with AIDS.
I've made no secret about wanting to go into medicine, it's the first post I put up. But I've also mentioned that I'd like to keep my options open. I started nursing to get an all round experience of patient care, which I believe I've also mentioned at some stage. I have friends who did started nursing having failed to get into medicine, and they love it now. And yes obviously I know my hospital very well, and know some interns, I fail to see the relevance of highlighting that.
Every other post has given me some insight into the medical world or else provided me with options for a future in nursing, both of which have been helpful. What isn't helpful however is telling me that I'm essentially a waste of resources and will be a bad nurse. You should be careful how you phrase things as you can come across as a bully, especially as you went through my previous posts, which is a step too far in my opinion. However if you don't see anything wrong with what you did then you wouldn't assume that you'd be reported. I hope you can learn to be more sensitive for your own sake.

Dr Galen

OP

question......do you think your alone in how you see things? in how you want your career to go? why or do you even, think that you can't pursue a career more in line with what you want via nursing?

genuine questions btw

mcdermla

Dr Galen wrote: »

OP

question......do you think your alone in how you see things? in how you want your career to go? why or do you even, think that you can't pursue a career more in line with what you want via nursing?

genuine questions btw

I'm not sure what you're really asking here! The problem is I think that in my course they really just aim for you to be staff nurses. Sure, you get a week of public health and a week to shadow a CNM, but they never really let you know what your options are for post grads, at least they haven't yet. All I know is from what I've seen on the wards. I've looked up post grads but from what I can tell they're to make staff nurses more educated in the wards they're in, eg I know a couple of nurses on oncology wards that have post grads in oncology, etc.

Dr Galen

well it depends really.

in order to get something from a nursing post-grad you need to have at least 2-3 years experience post qualification. Its not like someone doing say a biology degree and then doing a MSc in some specialised field. Talking about post grad stuff to undergrad nurses would be a waste of time.

As for post-grads and the aims of those courses, well the main reason that the nurses you've spoken to with the qualifications still being staff nurses is down to the lack of positions availible for advanced practice.

If I use something I'm familiar with, i.e tissue viability. I know several nurses with the qualification in this, ranging from post grad diplomas through to MSc level. The next step for them is to become a specialist tissue viability nurse. A certain, large Dublin hospital has 1 position in this field. A similar sized hospital, with more or less the same surgical/medical specialities in New York (which I've visited) has 6 fulltime and 1 part time TVNs. Does the Dublin hospital need 7 TVNs, nope, but it could do with 2 at least.


Why would you be looking into Post-Grads at this stage? What field would you like to work in when you've qualified?

Dr Galen

mcdermla wrote: »

The problem is I think that in my course they really just aim for you to be staff nurses.

i just want to pick up on this point. I think I might have answered it mostly in the last post though.

Thats not a problem with the course. Its the point.

Your in a course, with the aim of producing candidates to be enrolled onto the register of nurses. Nothing else. The stipulations regarding your education, amount of time spent on theory, in practice placements etc are based on the statutory requirements, set down by An Bord Altranais.

They aren't supposed to be training you to be a CNM/CNS/ANP or anything else other than an RGN (or Paeds/Midwife/Dual Qual). When you finish that, and your name is entered onto the register of nurses, the aim of the course has been reached.

I think your ambition is to admired in fairness, but like I said, I think maybe your getting a little ahead of yourself. There is a shedload of stuff you have yet to learn and experience, I have no doubt that in a few years, if you stick it out, you'll do well, but neglecting the core and basics of the job while getting carried away with post grad stuff will not get you to where you wanna go dude.

peasey

mcdermla wrote: »

I've been told in great detail the role of the nurse, as you can imagine, in college and from qualified nurses. So I have a good idea of what's ahead of me.
In terms of taking care of patients, I've never worked in a critical care/ICU/A&E .

. Like I said, I don't want to offend anybody, but I don't want to do nursing. I can't believe I just typed that.

Did you work in hospitals before you started the course? There is a huge difference between being told in college and by nurses and actually experiencing it. I worked in hospitals from 14 years of age on a voluntary basis and it certainly opened my eyes before entering the profession. Working as a student doesnt give the full picture either, it is a case of picking a speciality and being given the oppourtunity to run that area as the nurse in charge an opportunity I got as a final year nurse dont know if they still do that but it helps.

If you dont want to nurse leave why make the patients unhappy when you end up on the ward and you would be happier too a girl on my course qualified and retrained as a doctor so its no problem and probbly easier to get the training now as that was before the post grad courses that are available now

mcdermla

Dr Galen wrote: »

well it depends really.

in order to get something from a nursing post-grad you need to have at least 2-3 years experience post qualification. Its not like someone doing say a biology degree and then doing a MSc in some specialised field. Talking about post grad stuff to undergrad nurses would be a waste of time.

As for post-grads and the aims of those courses, well the main reason that the nurses you've spoken to with the qualifications still being staff nurses is down to the lack of positions availible for advanced practice.

If I use something I'm familiar with, i.e tissue viability. I know several nurses with the qualification in this, ranging from post grad diplomas through to MSc level. The next step for them is to become a specialist tissue viability nurse. A certain, large Dublin hospital has 1 position in this field. A similar sized hospital, with more or less the same surgical/medical specialities in New York (which I've visited) has 6 fulltime and 1 part time TVNs. Does the Dublin hospital need 7 TVNs, nope, but it could do with 2 at least.


Why would you be looking into Post-Grads at this stage? What field would you like to work in when you've qualified?

Nothing is jumping out at me so far tbh. I just want to know what's available to me once I'm qualified, I find it hard to go with the flow!
In regard to my course I know they're not aiming us to do higher education, but I feel that at some stage they should at least present our options to us, let us know what we can venture into after some experience.
I'm definitely getting ahead of myself, I know that, but I'm trying to decide what I want to do with the rest of my life. I started this thread to see if anyone had experience as a doctor/nurse abroad, and what they thought of it. Of course things change in two years, they probably will a million times before I graduate, I'd just like to have something to aim for really.

drkpower

mcdermla wrote: »

Nothing is jumping out at me so far tbh. I just want to know what's available to me once I'm qualified, I find it hard to go with the flow!
In regard to my course I know they're not aiming us to do higher education, but I feel that at some stage they should at least present our options to us, let us know what we can venture into after some experience.

You're not in school anymore; they dont and shouldnt spoon-feed you. They are training you to be a nurse. After that, its up to you where you take it.

mcdermla

peasey wrote: »

Did you work in hospitals before you started the course? There is a huge difference between being told in college and by nurses and actually experiencing it. I worked in hospitals from 14 years of age on a voluntary basis and it certainly opened my eyes before entering the profession. Working as a student doesnt give the full picture either, it is a case of picking a speciality and being given the oppourtunity to run that area as the nurse in charge an opportunity I got as a final year nurse dont know if they still do that but it helps.

If you dont want to nurse leave why make the patients unhappy when you end up on the ward and you would be happier too a girl on my course qualified and retrained as a doctor so its no problem and probbly easier to get the training now as that was before the post grad courses that are available now

I had no experience in a hospital before I started the course, no. The only experience I have is from placements and working as a HCA. As I said in my previous post I don't know what I'd specialise in yet.
During my placements I'm like any student, I do what I'm told and I take interest. I'm good to patients, when I have spare time, I go have a chat with them. I'm still undecided as whether I should stick with nursing or do medicine but thanks for your help and you're right, it is easier these days.

mcdermla

drkpower wrote: »

You're not in school anymore; they dont and shouldnt spoon-feed you. They are training you to be a nurse. After that, its up to you where you take it.

I know I shouldn't be spoon fed, I'm not asking to be. But it would be nice to get some guidance. Ooh! Guidance counsellor. Ok I've solved my own problem now

Dr Galen

mcdermla wrote: »

In regard to my course I know they're not aiming us to do higher education, but I feel that at some stage they should at least present our options to us, let us know what we can venture into after some experience........


.......... I'd just like to have something to aim for really.

There are about 2 dozen nursing specific post grad courses you could do, probably more since i last looked. As I say, other than knowing they exist, and that the potential to move into specialist clinical roles also exists, I'm not sure what else you want to know tbh?

Your only aim at this stage, should be to qualify and get a good result in your degree. That in itself opens up avenues, and will lead to you having some choice in what you work in post registration. Don't, whatever you do, pigeonhole yourself too soon, like going into theatre or such. Get some general surgical ward experience and some general medical ward experience in the first while and then see.

mcdermla wrote: »

I'm still undecided as whether I should stick with nursing or do medicine but thanks for your help and you're right, it is easier these days.

Ok, on a different line of thought obviously, what is it that attracts you to becoming a doctor exactly?

mcdermla

Dr Galen wrote: »

There are about 2 dozen nursing specific post grad courses you could do, probably more since i last looked. As I say, other than knowing they exist, and that the potential to move into specialist clinical roles also exists, I'm not sure what else you want to know tbh?

Your only aim at this stage, should be to qualify and get a good result in your degree. That in itself opens up avenues, and will lead to you having some choice in what you work in post registration. Don't, whatever you do, pigeonhole yourself too soon, like going into theatre or such. Get some general surgical ward experience and some general medical ward experience in the first while and then see.



Ok, on a different line of thought obviously, what is it that attracts you to becoming a doctor exactly?

I don't really wanna be pigeon-holed either, you've given me sound advice there.
Regarding becoming a doctor, I've always wanted to do medicine, since I was a child. I just find the human body fascinating. I wanted to learn about how disease affects the person and how to fix it. Sounds really old school, sorry! I wanted to put it on my CAO but my parents wouldn't let me, and made me put down arts instead. Needless to say, I didn't stay in it! Then the doctor thing just became unrealistic, as I worry it still is. I suppose it's more of a pipe dream for me than an aim.

Azy

In what year of training are you if you dont mind me asking?

As a student you are learning the theory behind the practice and believe me there is a serious gap between theory and practice. My advice would be to stick at it, finish the course and by the end you should have a clear indication whether you want to work as a Nurse or to diversify into other careers. You will find as the course intensifies that you will get vast more experience and develop interests in different specialities and subjects.

If you do choose to staff, you can emmigrate for experience. Its helpful to work in other systems. You may think about doing post-grad courses in nursing or even something entirely differently.

You seem to have a good grasp of what is going on in health services... and thats commendable that you speak it as you see it - if only more done it.... so why not use your experience of what you see and channel it to learning what can be done to improve our system, how do other health systems work, the relevance of social policy, what are the models of health systems and what role does marketisation and privatisation play and how does that affect equity of access etc? There is so much you can do.... and no just because you train as a nurse that doesnt mean you have to work as a Nurse. Nursing is a stepping stone into other professions.

Your training will never go to waste, you can use it to fund alternative studies in an area that you will truly enjoy and you may even get exemptions if you do choose further education in other areas....

mcdermla

Azy wrote: »

In what year of training are you if you dont mind me asking?

As a student you are learning the theory behind the practice and believe me there is a serious gap between theory and practice. My advice would be to stick at it, finish the course and by the end you should have a clear indication whether you want to work as a Nurse or to diversify into other careers. You will find as the course intensifies that you will get vast more experience and develop interests in different specialities and subjects.

If you do choose to staff, you can emmigrate for experience. Its helpful to work in other systems. You may think about doing post-grad courses in nursing or even something entirely differently.

You seem to have a good grasp of what is going on in health services... and thats commendable that you speak it as you see it - if only more done it.... so why not use your experience of what you see and channel it to learning what can be done to improve our system, how do other health systems work, the relevance of social policy, what are the models of health systems and what role does marketisation and privatisation play and how does that affect equity of access etc? There is so much you can do.... and no just because you train as a nurse that doesnt mean you have to work as a Nurse. Nursing is a stepping stone into other professions.

Your training will never go to waste, you can use it to fund alternative studies in an area that you will truly enjoy and you may even get exemptions if you do choose further education in other areas....

I'm going into third year. I try to learn as much as I can on the wards, I'm that annoying student with the notebook who asks all the questions .

I know I have a lot left to learn, and I know I've caused offence by saying what I think already, so thanks for applauding rather than criticising that. And for saying nursing is a stepping stone! You make some very valid points about what the future could hold, but also to take my time with it. I would love to get out of this country for a while and see how things operate somewhere else, the pros and cons of their health system, just to see if it's any better, if it makes more a difference. It's easier to become jaded by the negatives than being pro-active.

Azy

I think the beauty of the Degree programme is that it enables students to think laterally and critically of the system that they are working in, and the pros and cons of it.... other than purely focusing on biology and nursing practice etc.

I would recommend that you go elsewhere and practice but only if its something that you truly want to do. But by the end of your training you will know whether you want to stay in Nursing or use it to diversify into another career area.

I myself trained elsewhere and came back to Ireland... and it was some eye-opener! Its hard to believe but in the late 90's care plans were been introduced in a major acute hospital and been spun as a marvellous new innovation like they werent standard practice for a long time in other EU member states. Of course, it was nothing to do with the fact that upcoming students were been taught these in college....

I trained under a similar system to yourself and I thoroughly enjoyed every bit of it and particularly psychology, sociology and social policy. So when I came back, I worked as a staff nurse, went back to university and got myself another degree and masters and in subjects not traditionally related. Of course, that went down like a lead balloon with my colleagues who couldnt seem to understand why you wouldnt be studying other branches of nursing. But they were looking at it from a complete different perspective....

Anyway, got to go now....

AmcD

mcdermla wrote: »

Regarding becoming a doctor, I've always wanted to do medicine, since I was a child. I just find the human body fascinating. I wanted to learn about how disease affects the person and how to fix it. Sounds really old school, sorry! I wanted to put it on my CAO but my parents wouldn't let me, and made me put down arts instead. Needless to say, I didn't stay in it! Then the doctor thing just became unrealistic, as I worry it still is. I suppose it's more of a pipe dream for me than an aim.

In previous posts you wrote how you didn't like doing "dirty work" as a nurse. If you became a doctor there is a chance you might be disappointed by the tasks that you would end up doing. Jobs like taking blood, wheeling ECG machines and running round x-ray begging for investigations to be done, are not exactly mind-blowing.

Perhaps you want to become a doctor because you want more independence in decision-making? This would probably only start with the registrar years. Interns aren't given huge responsibilities. SHOs have to come up with management plans when they make the decision (or not) to admit a patient from A+E. In general this is discussed and amended at the post-call ward round. At this stage in my medical career, I regard a holiday as any time spent when I am not responsible for making all the decisions.

As I have trained medically I don't know the full ins and outs of training and specialization in nursing, but I have worked with some great nurses. Currently the practice nurse I work with is an advanced nurse practitioner. She has her own specific skills in antenatal care, wound care, vaccinations etc and is certainly not regarded as a "mini-doctor". The public health nurses locally are also fantastic and a wealth of background knowledge.

Maybe there will be some areas of nursing that might challenge you enough. At the moment it sounds like you are just at the crummy dogsbody stage. As an obs+gynae SHO I used to be bleeped at 5 am to write paracetamol in patient's charts, but it didn't put me off loving antenatal care in general practice.

mcdermla

AmcD wrote: »

In previous posts you wrote how you didn't like doing "dirty work" as a nurse. If you became a doctor there is a chance you might be disappointed by the tasks that you would end up doing. Jobs like taking blood, wheeling ECG machines and running round x-ray begging for investigations to be done, are not exactly mind-blowing.

Perhaps you want to become a doctor because you want more independence in decision-making? This would probably only start with the registrar years. Interns aren't given huge responsibilities. SHOs have to come up with management plans when they make the decision (or not) to admit a patient from A+E. In general this is discussed and amended at the post-call ward round. At this stage in my medical career, I regard a holiday as any time spent when I am not responsible for making all the decisions.

As I have trained medically I don't know the full ins and outs of training and specialization in nursing, but I have worked with some great nurses. Currently the practice nurse I work with is an advanced nurse practitioner. She has her own specific skills in antenatal care, wound care, vaccinations etc and is certainly not regarded as a "mini-doctor". The public health nurses locally are also fantastic and a wealth of background knowledge.

Maybe there will be some areas of nursing that might challenge you enough. At the moment it sounds like you are just at the crummy dogsbody stage. As an obs+gynae SHO I used to be bleeped at 5 am to write paracetamol in patient's charts, but it didn't put me off loving antenatal care in general practice.

Can I just ask firstly about doctors taking blood, I've only ever seen phlebotomists do this. Not doubting that doctors do it, I'm just unclear here.

There's dirty work and hierarchy in every job. I regret saying dirty work in my original post as it makes me sound like some kind of monster.

As I've said in earlier posts, I still don't know what I'll wind up doing. I might just find something I love about nursing, but I know that I don't want to wind up settling for it. I don't mean that in an unkind way, I just don't want to be in a job I don't like.
Thanks for your post, with regards to the independence concept, I don't know if it's that, can't really put my finger on it tbh.

mcdermla

Azy wrote: »

I would recommend that you go elsewhere and practice but only if its something that you truly want to do. But by the end of your training you will know whether you want to stay in Nursing or use it to diversify into another career area.

I myself trained elsewhere and came back to Ireland... and it was some eye-opener! Its hard to believe but in the late 90's care plans were been introduced in a major acute hospital and been spun as a marvellous new innovation like they werent standard practice for a long time in other EU member states. Of course, it was nothing to do with the fact that upcoming students were been taught these in college....

Good advice, and from someone who knows what they're talking about. I couldn't imagine training somewhere else and then coming back to the 'healthcare system' we have here.

Vorsprung

mcdermla wrote: »

Can I just ask firstly about doctors taking blood, I've only ever seen phlebotomists do this. Not doubting that doctors do it, I'm just unclear here.

Phelobotomists generally take the routine bloods in the mornings. Doctors (and some nurses who I love more than cake) will take the rest.

AmcD

mcdermla wrote: »

Can I just ask firstly about doctors taking blood, I've only ever seen phlebotomists do this. Not doubting that doctors do it, I'm just unclear here.

I was a medical student in St.James, but never worked there as a doctor. It would be nice to think that they had extended phlebotomy hours, but I have a suspicion that they might the same as most hospitals. As Vorsprung commented, phlebotomists usually do a round of requested bloods in the morning. Any bloods outside these hours would normally be done by the interns. They don't normally do weekend rounds (in any hospital I have worked in). It's just another non-medical job that other professionals do during their working hours that become the doctor's job when they finish.

I was once bleeped out of bed at about 3am by my surgical reg, who had just taken a set of bloods from a patient. It was great that she had taken the bloods, but I was being summonsed to write the names on the bottles! Bitter wasn't even the word.

Dr Galen

mcdermla wrote: »

Can I just ask firstly about doctors taking blood, I've only ever seen phlebotomists do this. Not doubting that doctors do it, I'm just unclear here.

not trying to be smart or patronising here OP, but this sentence proves how little you actually know or think you know about things are. As others have pointed out, the phlebs really only take the AM scheduled bloods, after that its all Dr's (interns) and nurses who do the blood taking.

Interns are basically lackeys, who get treated like ****, and do ALL the crappy jobs. If you think being a student nurse is tough, then being an intern is a hella lot worse. More secretary/chart fetcher and note taker than doctor tbh. Don't let that put you off though, its ****, but for those who know it, and really want to be a doctor, its worth it.

Might seem like a small thing, but if this has passed you by, then I think its a fair assertion to say that there will be lots of others things that you've missed too. Add all of that together, and I think you might have a different view of working in healthcare.

You've gotta be commended though, your interest is great. Fair play for sticking up for yourself, and asking the questions. Thats how you learn. Sure, you've a huge amount more to learn, but like I say, one day it all just clicks.

Dr Galen

AmcD wrote: »

I was once bleeped out of bed at about 3am by my surgical reg, who had just taken a set of bloods from a patient. It was great that she had taken the bloods, but I was being summonsed to write the names on the bottles! Bitter wasn't even the word.

that is shocking. As you know I've ranted many a time about the treatment interns get, it horrible though that this sort of thing is seen as ok.

mcdermla

Vorsprung wrote: »

Phelobotomists generally take the routine bloods in the mornings. Doctors (and some nurses who I love more than cake) will take the rest.

Ha, cake! Filipino nurses are trained to draw blood as part of their training, over here nurses have to do extra training for it, which makes no sense as phlebotomists do six weeks of training and nurses do four years, surely they'd find time to give a class on drawing blood there somewhere??

mcdermla

AmcD wrote: »

I was a medical student in St.James, but never worked there as a doctor. It would be nice to think that they had extended phlebotomy hours, but I have a suspicion that they might the same as most hospitals. As Vorsprung commented, phlebotomists usually do a round of requested bloods in the morning. Any bloods outside these hours would normally be done by the interns. They don't normally do weekend rounds (in any hospital I have worked in). It's just another non-medical job that other professionals do during their working hours that become the doctor's job when they finish.

I was once bleeped out of bed at about 3am by my surgical reg, who had just taken a set of bloods from a patient. It was great that she had taken the bloods, but I was being summonsed to write the names on the bottles! Bitter wasn't even the word.

As soon as I wrote the comment I copped that blood tests may be necessary after a certain time of the day, duh. Sucks that your reg couldn't write the names themselves, total abuse of power!

mcdermla

Dr Galen wrote: »

not trying to be smart or patronising here OP, but this sentence proves how little you actually know or think you know about things are. As others have pointed out, the phlebs really only take the AM scheduled bloods, after that its all Dr's (interns) and nurses who do the blood taking.

Interns are basically lackeys, who get treated like ****, and do ALL the crappy jobs. If you think being a student nurse is tough, then being an intern is a hella lot worse. More secretary/chart fetcher and note taker than doctor tbh. Don't let that put you off though, its ****, but for those who know it, and really want to be a doctor, its worth it.

Might seem like a small thing, but if this has passed you by, then I think its a fair assertion to say that there will be lots of others things that you've missed too. Add all of that together, and I think you might have a different view of working in healthcare.

You've gotta be commended though, your interest is great. Fair play for sticking up for yourself, and asking the questions. Thats how you learn. Sure, you've a huge amount more to learn, but like I say, one day it all just clicks.

I don't find it patronising, I've never been on a ward after half nine at night, I have no idea what happens then. Of course doctors will have to take bloods sometimes, but it just pisses me off cos surely phlebotomists could work at night too?! I remember a few confused patients who refused to have their bloods taken, only to see interns arrive later to do it. But I didn't realise this was the norm, my mistake.
I also remember one intern who told me she'd spent twelve hours doing discharges and other paperwork for her reg, but she was glad she had improved her typing speed, in case she eventually went for a totally different job!
The newbies in every job get treated like ****, it's one thing that puts me off medicine, to have to go through it in nursing and then have to start all over again in medicine. But in nursing you have it for four years, you're onyl an intern for one. I might just be used to it by then!
I don't know which I'll do, I'll take my time with it, but for now I'll do my best to just be a really good student nurse.

dissed doc

mcdermla wrote: »

As soon as I wrote the comment I copped that blood tests may be necessary after a certain time of the day, duh. Sucks that your reg couldn't write the names themselves, total abuse of power!

Or maybe as the more senior doctor he was called to an emergency and his time is better spent than filling out blood forms due to the HSE not paying for 24/7 phlebotomy services in acute hospitals, and if the intern was not doing anything, then why not.

Not everything is a personal attack or abuse of power.

mcdermla

dissed doc wrote: »

Or maybe as the more senior doctor he was called to an emergency and his time is better spent than filling out blood forms due to the HSE not paying for 24/7 phlebotomy services in acute hospitals, and if the intern was not doing anything, then why not.

Not everything is a personal attack or abuse of power.

Sorry I've heard so much bitching about interns getting abused that's the first thing I thought. Does any hospital have 24/7 phlebotomy services??

Sitric

"newbies in every job get treated like ****"

Do they though? My background was engineering and I was really well treated in every job I had.

Does this just happen in medicine/nursing? Or is it Ireland? Is it really as bad as some of the threads on here portray?
I have a bunch of friends in the middle of their internships in Sweden and Norway and they all love it. Even the guys in the UK and Scotland seem pretty happy.

Even worse than bloods, why in the name of god do doctors have to take the ecg's? And again, i'm not finished school so my impression of this problem is based on hearsay. Maybe it's not true. Is it? However, I worked abroad as a nurse in an a&e last summer. All ecg's taken by the nurses. Got zero training in how to take an ecg because that's exactly how much training is required.

Sitric

There is a HSE document/program looking at taking advantage of the fact that almost all of the foreign trained nurses working in Ireland are trained and competent to take bloods. I think it was also looking at what training was required to "upskill" (what a word) any nurses not able/not happy to draw blood.

Has anyone seen this? I read it ages ago and can\t find it now.