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The Dark Knight Rises - Pre-release Discussion [** NO SPOILERS PLEASE **]
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Phoenix Park wrote: »The Prestige is a fcking cracking movie, end of story!
I quite liked it. Ultimately a bit forgettable though.
You must not have been watching closely.
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paddy kerins wrote: »Why are we acting like Jonathan Nolan wrote Transformers? C'mon for christ's sake
The only reason I'm asking you to elaborate and explain what you mean by this is because I'm going to enjoy watching you try and explain this non-sensical and baseless statement.
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When everybody claims it's one of the best movies of all time when in fact it has some massive problems, and have decided it's an incredible movie even before seeing it.
I already commented on this. Nolan has done like 3 projects? And yeah, he's dependable to be pretty damn average at best. Goyer has written some stinkers too, most notably Ghostrider. Already spoke on this not one page back.
OK, so let's how TDK falls on it's arse. I'll work my way from end to beginning because the film gets worse as it goes along, but will probably flit around.
1. Batman takes the fall for several murders he did not commit. This is blatantly put in to make Batman a pariah for the follow-up film. Instead of subtly introducing this throughout the whole film, they stuff it into the last minute of the film. All that BS about 'Gotham losing faith' is complete nonsense. At no point in the film do we see any evidence suggesting that Harvey Dent is a source of inspiration for anybody.
Really, Batman should always have been a pariah. He flattened several cop cars in Batman Begins, and is engaging in illegal activity by being a vigilante, and he's SHOWING UP AT CRIME SCENES IN TDK???
2. Two-Face has no split personality. He's just pissed that his girlfriend died. So there goes one of DC's best villains and his entire character and what makes him interesting. :rolleyes:
3. The final fight. In Batman Begins, a whole cities population was going to be wiped out. Not only that, but they would do it themselves, ripping, gouging, stabbing and shooting each other. It's interesting; not cookie-cutter like 'a nuke', which seems to be where TDKR is heading. What does TDK do? Two ships with bombs on them. One loaded with murderers and rapists, and the other with a bunch of people whining that they should blow the other guys up. Am I supposed to care for either group? Which one? The rapists or the whiners? Not to mention the fact that most people I've talked to don't even realize the Joker was lying and they actually had the trigger to their own bombs...
4. Lucius Fox. OH NO WE CAN SEE THE VAGUE SILHOUETTE OF 4 MILLION PEOPLE. BIG BROTHER MAN. I QUIT! Nonsense.
5. Rachel Dawes. Continuity man, continuity. Yes Katie Holmes is a scientologist and they are all fruitcakes, but she's hotter, a better actress (i.e. didn't play an assistant district attorney like she was playing a dumb cheerleader) and oh yeah, CONTINUITY! Write her out if she won't be recast!
6. The ginger. Yes... blackmailing Batman. That sounds like a great idea until you say it out loud. Actually, no it sounds even scarier in my head! What was the whole point of that side story? Hope there are no 'asides' like that in TDKR. Except if I need to go piss or something.
7. Way too much of it takes place during the day. It even opens during the day.
8. That incescant icky licking. Stop it Ledger. Stop. Oh and stop giving us regular old Joker. Give us something new. Look how refreshing Murphy's Scarecrow was. The whole point of this trilogy was to make it more realistic, and have the villains we know, but have them fit into a more realistic environment, be less fantastical.
9. The goddamn suit. The one that Lucius Fox designed to be more susceptible to knives (Joker) and gunfire (Two-Face). Wink-wink! I groaned during that dialogue.
10. Why was scarecrow even in it? Such a shame to see him as a petty drug-dealer.
11. The way they went about capturing Joker. Elaborate much? And was it absolutely essential to that plan to fake Gordon's death? His poor feckin' wife and kid! :pac:
12. OK so this is gonna be how we capture the Joker. We're gonna bait him with Harvey Dent. Oh, so that burning bus in the way of our route is probably the Joker's doing, right? So, maybe we shouldn't divert into an underground tunnel? Cause maybe that's what he wants? Nah, let's go for it anyways, I don't like that helicopter with all that weaponry that's defending us, even if we have to stop to slowly go around that flaming bus.
I'm sure there's more, I'll add as I remember.
lol at number 6
Its a good post Andy to be fair to you0 -
1. Batman takes the fall for several murders he did not commit. This is blatantly put in to make Batman a pariah for the follow-up film. Instead of subtly introducing this throughout the whole film, they stuff it into the last minute of the film. All that BS about 'Gotham losing faith' is complete nonsense. At no point in the film do we see any evidence suggesting that Harvey Dent is a source of inspiration for anybody.
Really, Batman should always have been a pariah. He flattened several cop cars in Batman Begins, and is engaging in illegal activity by being a vigilante, and he's SHOWING UP AT CRIME SCENES IN TDK???
When Joker is captured, Harvey Dent gets all the plaudits as it was seen as his master plan. The whole "I believe in Harvey Dent" talk also suggests that he won over the public with a campaign based on hope and bringing justice back to Gotham.
As for showing up at crime scenes, it's clear from Ramirez's reactions is that he is not wanted there, and it is Gordon alone letting him skirt along the lines.
Really? I thought that the scene with him holding Joker's henchman hostage was brilliant as it established Dent was suffering from deep emotional issues even before Rachel died and he gets burnt.2. Two-Face has no split personality. He's just pissed that his girlfriend died. So there goes one of DC's best villains and his entire character and what makes him interesting. :rolleyes:
Plus, the fact that he already has the nickname "Harvey Two-Face" suggests that this is something others have observed in him too.
I'd agree that was slightly cheeseball, but when you think about it, who wouldn't be whiney in that situation? They are assuming that because the other boat is filled with scumbags and murderers, that they'll have no qualms about pulling the trigger. But that's the whole point I think as the boat full of inmates prove that even though they have committed heinous acts, they are still human, and ultimately do the right thing.3. The final fight. In Batman Begins, a whole cities population was going to be wiped out. Not only that, but they would do it themselves, ripping, gouging, stabbing and shooting each other. It's interesting; not cookie-cutter like 'a nuke', which seems to be where TDKR is heading. What does TDK do? Two ships with bombs on them. One loaded with murderers and rapists, and the other with a bunch of people whining that they should blow the other guys up. Am I supposed to care for either group? Which one? The rapists or the whiners? Not to mention the fact that most people I've talked to don't even realize the Joker was lying and they actually had the trigger to their own bombs...
Joker was trying to cause each group to destroy themselves through panic and chaos: the inmates by succumbing to their "true nature," and the civilians by becoming executioners. He wanted to prove that when it comes right down to it, everyone is the same, and capable of horrific acts to save their own skin.
But they proved him wrong.
They're not vague silhouettes in fairness, you could clearly see what people were doing and where they were. In fact that's the whole point of why Bruce needed Lucius to navigate it for him as without him or the technology, he wouldn't have been able to locate Joker, or figure out how to take down Joker's henchmen.4. Lucius Fox. OH NO WE CAN SEE THE VAGUE SILHOUETTE OF 4 MILLION PEOPLE. BIG BROTHER MAN. I QUIT! Nonsense.
As Lucius himself said, you can't let a piece of technology like that fall into the wrong hands.
Holmes was offered the chance to come back but she declined.5. Rachel Dawes. Continuity man, continuity. Yes Katie Holmes is a scientologist and they are all fruitcakes, but she's hotter, a better actress (i.e. didn't play an assistant district attorney like she was playing a dumb cheerleader) and oh yeah, CONTINUITY! Write her out if she won't be recast!
Why should they have to write out a character that ended up being a key part of the story just because Holmes refused to come back?
The guy hated Bruce and envied his position, plus it illustrated how both Bruce and Lucius may have been a little bit too careless when designing their plans and that it isn't just the freaks and gangsters that are out for all they can get, regardless of the means they use.6. The ginger. Yes... blackmailing Batman. That sounds like a great idea until you say it out loud. Actually, no it sounds even scarier in my head! What was the whole point of that side story? Hope there are no 'asides' like that in TDKR. Except if I need to go piss or something.
I'd say we all know pricks like that, albeit without the trying to blackmail your boss for £10m a year part.
I don't know about that, but I can say that the atmosphere (visually speaking) in BB is superior to that in TDK.7. Way too much of it takes place during the day. It even opens during the day.
Uh....I thought the whole point of the praise Ledger got is that it wasn't your regular old Joker, and that it was the biggest (yet most compelling) departure for the character in any media to date.8. That incescant icky licking. Stop it Ledger. Stop. Oh and stop giving us regular old Joker. Give us something new. Look how refreshing Murphy's Scarecrow was. The whole point of this trilogy was to make it more realistic, and have the villains we know, but have them fit into a more realistic environment, be less fantastical.
"Anything but a straight shot" is what I believe Lucius said. Plus, it was established in that convo between Bruce and Lucius that there would be such tradeoffs in order for Bruce to be able to be more agile and flexible in the suit.9. The goddamn suit. The one that Lucius Fox designed to be more susceptible to knives (Joker) and gunfire (Two-Face). Wink-wink! I groaned during that dialogue.
It was a nice touch for me, as it was similar to the comics in the sense that these freaks never truly go away.10. Why was scarecrow even in it? Such a shame to see him as a petty drug-dealer.
What I always hated about comic book movies was the one way conveyer belt of villains. Hey, let's use these 2 guys! But let's kill them off, make them a vegtable or throw them in jail for life just so we can never use them again.
I thought that was a fantastic climax to that scene, I almost jumped out of my seat in celebration when Gordon pulled off the helmet and uttered "we've got you you son of a bitch!"11. The way they went about capturing Joker. Elaborate much? And was it absolutely essential to that plan to fake Gordon's death? His poor feckin' wife and kid! :pac:
I do think there will be ramifications for Gordon in TDKR over that decision he made, and the knock on consequence it had of his family being held hostage by Harvey. Wouldn't be surprised if his wife has left him.
Panic in producing dumb decision in movie shocker. I mean seriously, you could find a similar criticism in every movie.12. OK so this is gonna be how we capture the Joker. We're gonna bait him with Harvey Dent. Oh, so that burning bus in the way of our route is probably the Joker's doing, right? So, maybe we shouldn't divert into an underground tunnel? Cause maybe that's what he wants? Nah, let's go for it anyways, I don't like that helicopter with all that weaponry that's defending us, even if we have to stop to slowly go around that flaming bus.0 -
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Phoenix Park wrote: »lol at number 6
Its a good post Andy to be fair to you
It's not really. He raises some points about TDK, many of which are just elements from the comic, some which have nothing to do with the script, some which are wrong, and some of which are just deperate attempts to dislike something.
If he were to honestly look at Batman Begins, or any Goyer written movie as thouroughly as that he would find many more flaws.0 -
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(which are pretty much all just things that weren't to your personal 'taste' rather than actual flaws in the films narrative)
The exact opposite to the reality. Well done.:eek: WTF did you really just say the prestige was forgettable????
COME ON!!!! like did you watch it? really? i understand peoples opinions are different but good bad the prestige is NOT FORGETTABLE
I am actually planning to give it a second go tonight. Haven't seen it in a few years. Will report back.
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