Stephen King's The Dark Tower

Heckler

Yerra t'was doomed from the start anyway. Roland a thin lanky (no matter what colour) 3 fingered asshole who cared for nothing except his Tower and to hell with who got in the way.

Eddie a strung out addict and Odetta a ferocious racist bitch.

Hollywood was never going to have the balls to make it the way it was written.

HBO might have.

Love to see someone have a try off The Talisman. Could be an epic TV series.

Snake Plisken

Andrew Lincoln would have been my choice for Roland, but I like Idris as an actor although I really don't think there is much hope of this being any good with Ron Howard and Brian Glazer involved, also unless they change the crappy ending to the series of books there will be a lot of upset filmgoers that's if they even get that far!

Heckler

Darko you called Elba an inspired choice of casting for Roland. Without arguing, why exactly ? Serious question.

While hes a fine actor what makes his casting "inspired" ?

intheclouds

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Andrew Lincoln would have been my choice for Roland, but I like Idris as an actor although I really don't think there is much hope of this being any good with Ron Howard and Brian Glazer involved, also unless they change the crappy ending to the series of books there will be a lot of upset filmgoers that's if they even get that far!

Yep, tho Lincoln is probably a bit young, but he has the energy of Roland precisely.

Why do I think Elba will make a great Roland, well for one he's a great actor and it's obvious that they are casting based on ability and not simply how similar the actor is to what is described in the novels. To me Roland has always been one of those odd characters, both stoic and charming and Elba has that in spades. Yes, the casting means that they dynamic between characters will change but it could work in the films favor. This whole out cry is just like when Tom Cruise was cast as Jack Reacher, fans were up in arms about it given that Cruise isn't 7 foot tall but you know what, at the end of the day it didn't matter. I'll be approaching The Dark Tower with trepidation but the casting is the least of my concerns.

intheclouds

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do I think Elba will make a great Roland, well for one he's a great actor and it's obvious that they are casting based on ability and not simply how similar the actor is to what is described in the novels. To me Roland has always been one of those odd characters, both stoic and charming and Elba has that in spades. Yes, the casting means that they dynamic between characters will change but it could work in the films favor. This whole out cry is just like when Tom Cruise was cast as Jack Reacher, fans were up in arms about it given that Cruise isn't 7 foot tall but you know what, at the end of the day it didn't matter. I'll be approaching The Dark Tower with trepidation but the casting is the least of my concerns.

I dont personally think Elba is that great of an actor, but he simply doesnt have Rolands energy. Too young as well as the wrong race. Clearly with who they cast they will be telling a different story than the story that was written (which I suspect you havent actually read). It wont be the Dark Tower.

Snake Plisken

Ive no issue with Elba as an actor Luther is one of my favourite shows, the problem is that as someone who has read the books King wrote the character as a white mans and I think he had Clint Eastwood in mind when he wrote Roland, so now to approve the main characters race change is a real sellout by King and leads this to be another dodgy adaptation of Kings work!

Boo Radley

Snake Plisken wrote: »

...so now to approve the main characters race change is a real sellout by King and leads this to be another dodgy adaptation of Kings work!

King had nothing to do with that decision.

Dial Hard

Deleted User wrote: »

The Nina Simone thing is a little different given that that was a bio pic of a real person, this is an adaptation of a work of fiction.

It doesn't matter that Susannah is a fictional character. Casting a white actress in her role would (rightly) be seen as whitewashing one of the most multi-faceted black characters in recent literary history. There'd be absolute uproar over it.

Also, and just as importantly, from a story perspective it still just doesn't work. You can't "solve" the problem of a black Roland by simply making Odetta/Detta/Susannah white.

Avatar MIA

Would people okay with Roland not being white be okay with the character being Rolanda ?

Dial Hard

Dial Hard wrote: »

It doesn't matter that Susannah is a fictional character. Casting a white actress in her role would (rightly) be seen as whitewashing one of the most multi-faceted black characters in recent literary history. There'd be absolute uproar over it.

Also, and just as importantly, from a story perspective it still just doesn't work. You can't "solve" the problem of a black Roland by simply making Odetta/Detta/Susannah white.

They cast black actors as characters who were white in the past and I've never had an issue with it or seen it as blackwashing. I get why people are concerned about it but casting a white or black actor in a role that was conceived of the opposite race isn't that big a deal unless it is done in such a way as to undermine the character. Making a historical figure who was black white is very different than to casting a black or white actor in an adaptation.

The recent Fantastic Four had a black Johnny Storm and the only people upset about it were fanboys. To say there would be uproar is a huge exaggeration, most people wouldn't care though given the reaction to the recent Ghostbusters film fanboys would no doubt be clamoring to kill the cast and all involved.

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Would people okay with Roland not being white be okay with the character being Rolanda ?

Depending on who was cast and why the decision was made then I'd be open to it.

Avatar MIA

Deleted User wrote: »

Depending on who was cast and why the decision was made then I'd be open to it.

It could be an interesting movie, but it wouldn't be "the" Dark Tower.

Snake Plisken

Boo Radley wrote: »

King had nothing to do with that decision.

Well then he is a silly man to sell one of his most celebrated works lock stock and barrel without having a say in the changes they could make to it!

Boo Radley

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Well then he is a silly man to sell one of his most celebrated works lock stock and barrel without having a say in the changes they could make to it!

For the most part when the rights are acquired for a book or a book series the author has zero input. It's an adaptation after all. Lots of his books have had significant changes when being adapted for film without his input (although I think he was asked his opinion on the new ending of The Mist, but that was not obligatory).

intheclouds

Deleted User wrote: »

They cast black actors as characters who were white in the past and I've never had an issue with it or seen it as blackwashing. I get why people are concerned about it but casting a white or black actor in a role that was conceived of the opposite race isn't that big a deal unless it is done in such a way as to undermine the character. Making a historical figure who was black white is very different than to casting a black or white actor in an adaptation.

Their races are relevant to the story. Roland is bamboozled by this crazy black politically active angry woman who shoots in from civil rights America with the experience of being both a downtrodden racially abused black person AND a rich person who knows some whites are grinding their teeth at her. Roland doesn't get it. Eddie half gets it. Odetta has to come to terms with all her anger and most of that is bound up with the racial aspect of her past.

Saying that their races don't matter is like saying that it wouldn't have mattered if Michael Fassbenders role had been cast to someone black in 12 Years A Slave. The story is making a specific statement on race. The characters and how they behave is a direct result of their race.

intheclouds

intheclouds wrote: »

Their races are relevant to the story. Roland is bamboozled by this crazy black politically active angry woman who shoots in from civil rights America with the experience of being both a downtrodden racially abused black person AND a rich person who knows some whites are grinding their teeth at her. Roland doesn't get it. Eddie half gets it. Odetta has to come to terms with all her anger and most of that is bound up with the racial aspect of her past.

Saying that their races don't matter is like saying that it wouldn't have mattered if Michael Fassbenders role had been cast to someone black in 12 Years A Slave. The story is making a specific statement on race. The characters and how they behave is a direct result of their race.

Yes, race is important but it can be adapted to suit the casting. And the comparison with 12 Years A Slave is a little different given that one is a work of fiction and the other is based on fact. Without having seeing the film no one has any idea how any of this will play out but I would imagine that much of the race related stuff will be left out or adapted to suit the film. Anyone

Snake Plisken

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, race is important but it can be adapted to suit the casting. And the comparison with 12 Years A Slave is a little different given that one is a work of fiction and the other is based on fact. Without having seeing the film no one has any idea how any of this will play out but I would imagine that much of the race related stuff will be left out or adapted to suit the film. Anyone

Seeing as who is making it I think your probably right, I'm sure it will appeal to punters who have never read the books and they won't really care if Roland is black or not!
On another point I wonder how much of the language of the books will be used in the movies? Will they change that as well?

intheclouds

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, race is important but it can be adapted to suit the casting. And the comparison with 12 Years A Slave is a little different given that one is a work of fiction and the other is based on fact. Without having seeing the film no one has any idea how any of this will play out but I would imagine that much of the race related stuff will be left out or adapted to suit the film. Anyone

Odettas experiences in civil rights America ARE based on fact.

Sure, they can adapt it, leave it out etc, but again, that means they are not telling the story of the Dark Tower.

Snake Plisken

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Seeing as who is making it I think your probably right, I'm sure it will appeal to punters who have never read the books and they won't really care if Roland is black or not!
On another point I wonder how much of the language of the books will be used in the movies? Will they change that as well?

Look at this like a the Dark Tower lite, it'll hit most of the same beats but in a very different way and could be all the better for it. If I want the Dark Tower I'll reread the books but it could be interesting to have an alternate take on it, kind of like how The Lawnmower Man has little to do with the source material and as such is a very different experience.

intheclouds wrote: »

Odettas experiences in civil rights America ARE based on fact.

Sure, they can adapt it, leave it out etc, but again, that means they are not telling the story of the Dark Tower.

Odetta's story may be based on fact but she is not a real person, she is a work of fiction and as such changing the ethnicity is in no way comparable to whitewashing done in films from decades ago.

intheclouds

Deleted User wrote: »

Odetta's story may be based on fact but she is not a real person, she is a work of fiction and as such changing the ethnicity is in no way comparable to whitewashing done in films from decades ago.

You seem overly hung up on a fictional comparison so I will give you one that might illuminate what I am saying for you.

In the Heat of the Night is a fictional work (a book, movie, to show). Virgil Tibbs is a black detective. The story simply wouldn't work with a white Virgil Tibbs because him being black is fundamental to the story being told. He is arrested on suspicion of carrying out the crime he was sent to investigate simply because he is black and he is in a racist southern state. That is the story being told. It's about a black man.

Roland and Odetta are white and black respectively and their story depends on that. If Odetta was cut completely Roland could be black. But that's not the story of the Dark Tower.

intheclouds

intheclouds wrote: »

You seem overly hung up on a fictional comparison so I will give you one that might illuminate what I am saying for you.

In the Heat of the Night is a fictional work (a book, movie, to show). Virgil Tibbs is a black detective. The story simply wouldn't work with a white Virgil Tibbs because him being black is fundamental to the story being told. He is arrested on suspicion of carrying out the crime he was sent to investigate simply because he is black and he is in a racist southern state. That is the story being told. It's about a black man.

Roland and Odetta are white and black respectively and their story depends on that. If Odetta was cut completely Roland could be black. But that's not the story of the Dark Tower.

If one was to adapt In the Heat of the Night then you could very easily change the race of the characters, it wouldn't be the same film and the tone and themes explored in the film would be very different but it could work. Much like one could easily do a Alex Cross film where a white actor was cast or an adaptation of Bosch with a black actor. The Dark Tower film is not going to be slavishly loyal to the source material and that's no bad thing, sure the changing of race will change much about the film but I'd take that over an adaptation such as Blood Work in which every line of dialogue, every scene, every beat was put on screen. The best adaptations are the ones which take the source material and do something different. Would a white version of In the Heat of the Night have the same impact as the novel or existing film, doubtful but that does not mean that it couldn't be interesting.

intheclouds

Deleted User wrote: »

If one was to adapt In the Heat of the Night then you could very easily change the race of the characters, it wouldn't be the same film and the tone and themes explored in the film would be very different but it could work. Much like one could easily do a Alex Cross film where a white actor was cast or an adaptation of Bosch with a black actor. The Dark Tower film is not going to be slavishly loyal to the source material and that's no bad thing, sure the changing of race will change much about the film but I'd take that over an adaptation such as Blood Work in which every line of dialogue, every scene, every beat was put on screen. The best adaptations are the ones which take the source material and do something different. Would a white version of In the Heat of the Night have the same impact as the novel or existing film, doubtful but that does not mean that it couldn't be interesting.

I'm not saying that black Roland Dark Tower won't be a good movie. But it won't be the Dark Tower.

Which is a huge shame for the fans of 30+ years ( of which I am one). So disappointing.

Snake Plisken

intheclouds wrote: »

I'm not saying that black Roland Dark Tower won't be a good movie. But it won't be the Dark Tower.

Which is a huge shame for the fans of 30+ years ( of which I am one). So disappointing.

Btw as a fan of the books were you not disappointed how King ended the books? I felt it was a very poor conclusion to the tale of Roland and think King didn't really made the wrong decision on how to end it!

intheclouds

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Btw as a fan of the books were you not disappointed how King ended the books? I felt it was a very poor conclusion to the tale of Roland and think King didn't really made the wrong decision on how to end it!

No - I thought the ending was perfect. Ka is a wheel.

I thought the latter 3 books were a let down alright (especially after waiting so many years to read them), although there were some aspects I enjoyed.

But the actual ending itself - perfection imo.

"The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed". I even have it up on my wall in an etching with the Ka symbol (made long before the last books came out!).

Dial Hard

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd take that over an adaptation such as Blood Work in which every line of dialogue, every scene, every beat was put on screen.

Er, apart from the teeny tiny matter of them completely changing the identity of the killer...

Antar Bolaeisk

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Btw as a fan of the books were you not disappointed how King ended the books? I felt it was a very poor conclusion to the tale of Roland and think King didn't really made the wrong decision on how to end it!

I think if he hadn't put the foreword to the conclusion into the book it would have been received a whole lot better. He basically set people up to have a negative opinion of it.

Liam McPoyle

I liked the ending of TDT.

No matter what way it ended up people weren't going to be happy but I was glad he didn't pander by sticking in some stupid happy ending where everything was resolved.

Antar Bolaeisk

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

I think if he hadn't put the foreword to the conclusion into the book it would have been received a whole lot better. He basically set people up to have a negative opinion of it.

Couldn't agree more

Boo Radley

Filming is beginning in NY (via https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDarkTower/comments/4q53sv/i_found_the_dark_tower_film_warning_signs_posted/?st=ipyn6oik&sh=ae8603e4)

Skerries

I'd say people in LA and New York must get a pain their ring with the disruption from the non-stop filming going on all the time