Stephen King's The Dark Tower

Sad Professor

intheclouds wrote: »

Um, what about the whole Odetta civil rights activism and major involvement in the civil rights movement? There wasn't a white civil rights movement.

White people were involved in the African American civil rights movement as well. If anything making Odetta white makes her character even more effective. She's a white southerner who supported civil rights, but her split personality is a vile racist.

Details like this are easily adapted. I appreciate, however, that many book fans are adopting a purist position on this film and will accept nothing but absolute fidelity to the books. Unfortunately that just isn't possible and tbh changing the colour of Roland's skin or his eyes is going to be the least of the changes.

Liamalone

intheclouds wrote: »

Nobody cares what colour a character in a story is, but this guy simply isn't going to (a) match anyone's mental image of Roland and (b) be able to play out certain storylines.

Nail on head

I think that the issue regarding the casting of Elba says more about the people who have issue with it than anything else. The whole race aspect of the casting is ridiculous and if you have an issue with the colour of Elba's eyes compared to how they are described in the novel then nothing is going to make you happy. This is an adaptation, it's supposed to take the best of the novel and reinterpret it, the most born book to film adaptations are ones like Sin City which are slavishly loyal to the source material and not at all interesting.

The Dark Tower may very well be a complete and utter mess of a film but it's worth at least watching the film before slating it over things like casting. Jack Reacher featured an actor nothing like what was described in the books and yet the film worked rather well.

Liamalone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think that the issue regarding the casting of Elba says more about the people who have issue with it than anything else. The whole race aspect of the casting is ridiculous and if you have an issue with the colour of Elba's eyes compared to how they are described in the novel then nothing is going to make you happy. This is an adaptation, it's supposed to take the best of the novel and reinterpret it, the most born book to film adaptations are ones like Sin City which are slavishly loyal to the source material and not at all interesting.

The Dark Tower may very well be a complete and utter mess of a film but it's worth at least watching the film before slating it over things like casting. Jack Reacher featured an actor nothing like what was described in the books and yet the film worked rather well.

Come on down from up there before you fall, mon.

Liam McPoyle

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that the issue regarding the casting of Elba says more about the people who have issue with it than anything else. The whole race aspect of the casting is ridiculous and if you have an issue with the colour of Elba's eyes compared to how they are described in the novel then nothing is going to make you happy. This is an adaptation, it's supposed to take the best of the novel and reinterpret it, the most born book to film adaptations are ones like Sin City which are slavishly loyal to the source material and not at all interesting.

The Dark Tower may very well be a complete and utter mess of a film but it's worth at least watching the film before slating it over things like casting. Jack Reacher featured an actor nothing like what was described in the books and yet the film worked rather well.

Who has slated it?

Nobody.

People have raised questions about changing the ethnicity of the main character, that's all.

Heckler

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that the issue regarding the casting of Elba says more about the people who have issue with it than anything else. The whole race aspect of the casting is ridiculous and if you have an issue with the colour of Elba's eyes compared to how they are described in the novel then nothing is going to make you happy. This is an adaptation, it's supposed to take the best of the novel and reinterpret it, the most born book to film adaptations are ones like Sin City which are slavishly loyal to the source material and not at all interesting.

The Dark Tower may very well be a complete and utter mess of a film but it's worth at least watching the film before slating it over things like casting. Jack Reacher featured an actor nothing like what was described in the books and yet the film worked rather well.

So easy to throw racist accusations at anyone who doubts Elbas casting and thats exactly what you did in you first sentence so don't deny it. (more about the people )I and many others rate Elba as a terrific actor. Just not for this role.

Even despite the overall description that doesn't fit, the gunslinger is frequently described as gaunt, thin with an inner strength that belies his look. Elba looks with that physique that he'd pull your head off with his bare hands.

Noones racist. Again I ask, would John Grishams A Time to Kill have had the same impact if Carl Lee was white ? Of course not.

It might be an ok standalone film but I think its only going to be the Dark Tower in name. Its going to piss off fans off the series (and bear in mind this series is running for 2 decades). People who go to see it without knowing the series are going to be thinking WTF was that about.

Maybe if it had Frank Darabont at the helm it might have have had a chance.

I hope against hope its going to be great but I fear its going to be a fan, critic and commercial bomb.

I find it hard to see who outside fans of the Dark Tower series are interested and the majority of them are probably in their late 30's or 40's now.

So unless they play it close to the book it's gonna flop. Which is a shame. Its such a great series. Its practically unfilmable outside a major tv series tbh.

And sure i'll be pissy. Elba looks he walked of a set. He doesn't have Rolands crisscrossed gunbelts. (when the gun fans get hold of any revolvers Elba shows I think he'll be torn apart) He doesn't have the weary battered look described in the books. I'm sure as **** Hollywood isn't going to have him fingerless in one hand for most of it and as for him carrying around a black leg amputee on his back......

For noone with knowledge of the source it might be ok. For fans its going to be a huge (maybe inevitable) disappointment.

OwaynOTT

Heckler wrote: »

So easy to throw racist accusations at anyone who doubts Elbas casting and thats exactly what you did in you first sentence so don't deny it. (more about the people )I and many others rate Elba as a terrific actor. Just not for this role.

Even despite the overall description that doesn't fit, the gunslinger is frequently described as gaunt, thin with an inner strength that belies his look. Elba looks with that physique that he'd pull your head off with his bare hands.

Noones racist. Again I ask, would John Grishams A Time to Kill have had the same impact if Carl Lee was white ? Of course not.

It might be an ok standalone film but I think its only going to be the Dark Tower in name. Its going to piss off fans off the series (and bear in mind this series is running for 2 decades). People who go to see it without knowing the series are going to be thinking WTF was that about.

Maybe if it had Frank Darabont at the helm it might have have had a chance.

I hope against hope its going to be great but I fear its going to be a fan, critic and commercial bomb.

Series ran for the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. Im not sure of the release date for a wind through the keyhole, which might push the series in this decade too. So 4 decades and possibly five.
Not that it matters.

Heckler

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Series ran for the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. Im not sure of the release date for a wind through the keyhole, which might push the series in this decade too. So 4 decades and possibly five.
Not that it matters.

Maybe doubting you. Can you reference me the Gunslinger back in the 70's ? The book that is.

The Tower, the Rose maybe not the gunslinger I don't think.

Get you with the earlier ones but King didn't put them together into a coherent book till 2003.

Sad Professor

AVClub suggest they might be pulling something similar to what Abrams did with Star Trek.

http://www.avclub.com/article/stephen-king-may-have-just-revealed-huge-twist-dar-237067?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=feeds

Heckler

Sad Professor wrote: »

AVClub suggest they might be pulling something similar to what Abrams did with Star Trek.

http://www.avclub.com/article/stephen-king-may-have-just-revealed-huge-twist-dar-237067?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=feeds

That could work and melt the mind.

Corholio

Why can't people have a responsible, serious gripe with casting these days without it being a 'racist' thing? Elba is a great actor and would watch him in anything, but it's quite hard to picture him as Roland in many ways, not just skin colour. I completely disagree that it says 'more' about the people who have issue with his casting, and a bit offensive to be honest. It's amazing these things only come up when it's anything to do with 'skin colour', no one bats an eye lid if someone criticises the age of an actor playing a supposedly younger/older character.

Avatar MIA

Apologies if this has been raised before

That would be a welcome version... Re ending.


But, is it going to be ONE film only to try and capture the whole story? Really?

Liam McPoyle

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Apologies if this has been raised before

That would be a welcome version... Re ending.


But, is it going to be ONE film only to try and capture the whole story? Really?

Apparently its plan is a couple of movies and potential TV. I'd suspect it hangs on how the first one does in the box office.

PirateShampoo

In the absence of Clint then Daniel Craig would have been my perfect Roland.

JohnFalstaff

Heckler wrote: »

Maybe if it had Frank Darabont at the helm it might have have had a chance.

Interesting that you bring Frank Darabont into the conversation.

Frank Darabont cast Morgan Freeman as Red in The Shawshank Redemption. In Stephen King's novella Red is described as a middle-aged Irishman with graying red hair.

Casting Morgan Freeman in the role was an inspired choice ("Maybe it's because I'm Irish...") and I'm thinking Darabont would have no problem with casting Elba as Roland.

RDM_83 again

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

Heckler wrote: »

Maybe if it had Frank Darabont at the helm it might have have had a chance.

Interesting that you bring Frank Darabont into the conversation.

Frank Darabont cast Morgan Freeman as Red in The Shawshank Redemption. In Stephen King's novella Red is described as a middle-aged Irishman with graying red hair.

Casting Morgan Freeman in the role was an inspired choice ("Maybe it's because I'm Irish...") and I'm thinking Darabont would have no problem with casting Elba as Roland.

Its different though and not just about the race thing, I mean I mentioned a black actor from the TV show that Elba made his name that would be in my mind way more suited, I'm not a big fan of the books but since you support the idea of Elba can you give me an example of a role that he has played that's appropriate for a world weary not physically intimidating guy.

Red in the Shawshank was a personable old white Irish man changed to an old black personable African American. Elba is a good actor (Elba should be bond for example) but he doesn't suit the role

Race doesn't even have to come into it why he doesn't suit the role

Zapp Brannigan

Love Elba, but can't help but feel Viggo Mortenson was the man for this role.

intheclouds

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that the issue regarding the casting of Elba says more about the people who have issue with it than anything else. The whole race aspect of the casting is ridiculous and if you have an issue with the colour of Elba's eyes compared to how they are described in the novel then nothing is going to make you happy.

Seriously? You think people are racist because they followed and loved a story about a white guy and his adventures including his interactions with a black woman (where the characters races were relevant to the plot lines of the story) for 2 or 3 decades and now they are disappointed because the actor cast doesn't match their mental image and will mean fundamental changes to the storyline? The story simply cannot be told as read with this change.

If you think that constitutes racism then I suggest you educate yourself because your ignorant statement says quite a bit about you and your lack of comprehension.

Xaracatz

As has been said, this could be awesome for people who have never read the books, but a bit of a letdown for those of us who grew up with them.

I think the casting choice for Roland is odd. Whatever about the skin colour (although it kills a lot of the Detta stuff), the guy is just too goddamn beefy!

The fact that Flagg is going to play a much larger part suggests a real departure from the books. And, maybe it's just me, but I know I would ruin the movie for myself by spending my time thinking that's not what happened.

Saying all that, the

Last Time Around

bit is brilliant. As a lover of TDT, I'm kicking myself for not even thinking of it!

I just happen to be on the last book at the moment after a re-read of the series (probably my third), and I think I've enjoyed it all even more than the last few reads.

It's funny that people seems so upset about the casting and to say that it's not at all race related seems a like people saying "I'm not racist, but..." The casting here is fine, this is an adaptation and as such is going to do things differently, to say that the casting does not meet the version you have in your head is utter nonsense as no casting decision will ever match what you have in your head given that every reader will have a different interpretation of the character. Roland's skin colour has no real bearing on the story and could actually make it more interesting, Odetta as a character works as either race. All this complaining about the race of the lead actor reminds me of the casting of Daniel Craig as Bond or Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm in the Fantastic Four film, nothing more than fanboys crying because someone has dared tweak a small aspect of a beloved character. King seems perfectly fine with Elba in the lead role and I while I can see the film having huge issues, the race of the lead is not one of them. But by all means, complain that Elba doesn't have blue eyes and all that.

dr.fuzzenstein

Sure, why not make Bond an Asian woman so, since authenticity must be sacrificed in order to fulfill some token "diversity" clause to appease the PC nuts. Anyone disagrees is automatically shouted down as racist. :rolleyes:
Roland's appearance is very specific, described in great detail and is an integral part of the story. The best actor to play the role would be Clint Eastwood brought here by time machine from 1969. While there, they would have to pick up Lee Van Cleef for the role of the man in black. Viggo Mortensen would be a good choice and for some reason I think Karl Urban would have the right scowl for the role.
But to shoe-horn someone into the role because it's appeasing the sensitivities of some (guaranteed white) pressure group who dictate their sh*te out of their university "safe spaces" is beyond retarded.
To now complain that this is racist, oh fcuk off. But OK, let's go along with it. Why not a remake of Shaft with a white actor? Don't like the idea? You racist!

Liamalone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Blah blah waffle waffle

OK so

Heckler

Deleted User wrote: »

It's funny that people seems so upset about the casting and to say that it's not at all race related seems a like people saying "I'm not racist, but..." The casting here is fine, this is an adaptation and as such is going to do things differently, to say that the casting does not meet the version you have in your head is utter nonsense as no casting decision will ever match what you have in your head given that every reader will have a different interpretation of the character. Roland's skin colour has no real bearing on the story and could actually make it more interesting, Odetta as a character works as either race. All this complaining about the race of the lead actor reminds me of the casting of Daniel Craig as Bond or Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm in the Fantastic Four film, nothing more than fanboys crying because someone has dared tweak a small aspect of a beloved character. King seems perfectly fine with Elba in the lead role and I while I can see the film having huge issues, the race of the lead is not one of them. But by all means, complain that Elba doesn't have blue eyes and all that.

1. Rolands skin colour has no real bearing on the story ? Have you even read the books ?

2. Bollocks post.

Ok going beyond the blue eyes ****e. Everything else is wrong. And don't you call me a racist. I'm the furthest thing from. If anything you seem like some warrior intent on proving how non-racist you are with your over protectiveness.

Liam McPoyle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's funny that people seems so upset about the casting and to say that it's not at all race related seems a like people saying "I'm not racist, but..." The casting here is fine, this is an adaptation and as such is going to do things differently, to say that the casting does not meet the version you have in your head is utter nonsense as no casting decision will ever match what you have in your head given that every reader will have a different interpretation of the character. Roland's skin colour has no real bearing on the story and could actually make it more interesting, Odetta as a character works as either race. All this complaining about the race of the lead actor reminds me of the casting of Daniel Craig as Bond or Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm in the Fantastic Four film, nothing more than fanboys crying because someone has dared tweak a small aspect of a beloved character. King seems perfectly fine with Elba in the lead role and I while I can see the film having huge issues, the race of the lead is not one of them. But by all means, complain that Elba doesn't have blue eyes and all that.

You're one of the biggest "fanboys" around this place so for the insinuations you are making, gtfo.

Sad Professor

Lets keep it friendly please.

Heckler

Heckler wrote: »

1. Rolands skin colour has no real bearing on the story ? Have you even read the books ?

2. Bollocks post.

Ok going beyond the blue eyes ****e. Everything else is wrong. And don't you call me a racist. I'm the furthest thing from. If anything you seem like some warrior intent on proving how non-racist you are with your over protectiveness.

I've read all the books and more than once. I'm not trying to prove anything, just point out that there is absolutely no problem with changing Roland's, this is an adaptation and as such one expects changes. Without having read the script or having an idea of the directors intentions people are already judging the film and seem to think that what makes Roland who he is, is the colour of his skin. This whole debate is a little like the one raging around the Ghostbusters film in which fanboys are attacking the film because it's a female cast when from that trailers thus far, that would appear to be the least of the films problems. The Dark Tower could be a great film or it could be an awful one but we won't know till we see the film.

Saul T Nutzz

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

You're one of the biggest "fanboys" around this place so for the insinuations you are making, gtfo.

I'm about as far from a fanboy as you can get, I love the Dark Tower and recently re-read it but can see the many faults in it. I hope the film is good, but if it's not then no big deal as I'll still have the books to read. One of the few things that has me excited for The Dark Tower is the presence of Elba, he's a damn talented actor and while he's not Viggo Mortensen who I always saw in the role, he's still an inspired casting choice and one who should have no problem carrying the role.

Dial Hard

Deleted User wrote:

They can just call him the black devil and I really don't think there would be any uproar if they cast a white actress.

Seriously??? Look at the sh*tstorm over Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone.

I LOVE Idris Elba as an actor. But he was an absolutely insane casting choice for this. I've said before on this thread that he's far too *vital* physically to play Roland, who's basically been living on empty his entire life. And, as everyone who's read the books knows, the racial interplay between Roland and Detta is an absolutely pivotal part of the whole Odetta/Detta/Susannah story arc. Her transformation just does not work if Roland is black.

Dial Hard

Dial Hard wrote: »

Seriously??? Look at the sh*tstorm over Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone.

I LOVE Idris Elba as an actor. But he was an absolutely insane casting choice for this. I've said before on this thread that he's far too *vital* physically to play Roland, who's basically been living on empty his entire life. And, as everyone who's read the books knows, the racial interplay between Roland and Detta is an absolutely pivotal part of the whole Odetta/Detta/Susannah story arc. Her transformation just does not work if Roland is black.

The Nina Simone thing is a little different given that that was a bio pic of a real person, this is an adaptation of a work of fiction.

The change in race will make for a very different dynamic between Odetta and Roland but it can still work. I certainly won't be writing it off till I see the film

Heckler

Darko, can you really not see how people are pissed with this ? It might be a fine film, just don't call it the Dark Tower.

You can't just say oh its an adaptation get over it. If so proclaim it as so. Call it something different.

As for Darabont changing Red in Shawshank to black from irish red head, Reds colour had no bearing whatsoever on the storyline.

Noone here or anywhere else I've read is disputing that Elba is a fine, fine actor. Just not for Roland. Even though I hope he knocks it out of the park I'm going to see it with jaundiced eyes because its not my (or many millions of fans) image of Roland. Thats all.