Were RTE correct to hold off announcing death of Gerry Ryan

Slideshowbob

RIP Gerry Ryan

but were RTE right to hold off broadcasting the news when it was reported on other radio stations and the internet?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0430/breaking65.html

I know it was the families wishes but they are a national news broadcaster too.

Interesting that Miriam O'Callaghan deleted her tweet on the matter - strange she did not check with her employer at the time although I suppose her tweets are made in a personal capacity!?

Gone West

Of course they were right to respect his family's wishes.

rovert

Rather pointless topic, how do you define right and wrong here? RTE just followed time honoured protocol by ensuring that as his employer to contact his immediate family.

fifth

Yes they are completely right to have held off.

Slideshowbob

rovert wrote: »

Rather pointless topic, how do you define right and wrong here? RTE just followed time honoured protocol by ensuring that as his employer to contact his immediate family.

It's just a discussion, the fact is there is no time honoured protocol established for the likes of twitter etc and that is how the story gained credibility.

It's just that at 2.55pm yesterday on the web it was as good as fact, whereas Joe Duffy was going on about all sorts of funny stuff which seemed totally inappropriate. Then on 3pm RTE1 radio news - nothing was mentioned either. Just seemed strange at the time.

Barname

I think its an example of how 'old' media RTE are.

copacetic

thread is in pretty poor taste, what possible difference did his employer waiting a couple of hours to announce his death make to the public?

Loveless

Barname wrote: »

I think its an example of how 'old' media RTE are.

heard Tony Fenton on TodaYFM say that he knew about it 2:15 and had to go on air at 2:30 but obviously couldn't mention anything about it yet.

Slideshowbob

Barname wrote: »

I think its an example of how 'old' media RTE are.

There you go

It's actually interesting in another respect, I think on boards somewhere someone mentioned that they heard it off a relative who was an emergency worker or something at the scene, I'd imagine they have confidentiality terms to their work that is also compromised by "new" media and all it brings with it.

JonathanAnon

el judìo wrote: »

Of course they were right to respect his family's wishes.

I questioned it as well. Why liveline and other shows were ignoring the obvious... but it makes sense to respect the families wishes.. especially since he was one of their colleagues..

rovert

Slideshowbob wrote: »

It's just a discussion, the fact is there is no time honoured protocol established for the likes of twitter etc.

Erm how could new media have a time honoured protocol???

rovert

Slideshowbob wrote: »

There you go

It's actually interesting in another respect, I think on boards somewhere someone mentioned that they heard it off a relative who was an emergency worker or something at the scene, I'd imagine they have confidentiality terms to their work that is also compromised by "new" media and all it brings with it.

Still doesnt change that RTE was employer. But you are right RTE should be FIRST that is all that matters.

The Express

With the greatest respect to the man, I find it interesting that we've seen no location reports from reporters on Leeson St or pictures of the building, etc, etc on any media.

Just an observation.

Slideshowbob

The Express wrote: »

With the greatest respect to the man, I find it interesting that we've seen no location reports from reporters on Leeson St or pictures of the building, etc, etc on any media.

Just an observation.

Actually good ol' TV3 managed to get a shot of a property with door number and all on their 5.30 news - here u go:

http://www.tv3.ie/article.php?article_id=36770&locID=1.2.139.&pagename=home

RTE probably just didn't want to 'intrude'

Loveless

BreakingNews.ie also put a picture of a 10 Reg emergency vehicle parked inside the gates..

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tributes-paid-to-gerry-ryan-after-his-sudden-death-455946.html

mrsdewinter

I thought it smacked of, 'We'll tell the plebs when we're good and ready...' I'd love to know what journos working within RTE think of it all. Are we living in a world now where the new media breaks news, and the old media wait a respectful few hours before announcing tired old facts as if they've got the exclusive. (Having said all that, I did not get to hear any of the RTE coverage, though I understand that as soon as Ryan's death was announced, the tributes were superb.)

Slideshowbob

Indeed the Late Late tribute was nice I thought - Gay Byrne, Pat Kenny etc

If you want some more opinion on the way the story broke, follow the twitter to Miriam O'Callaghan as seen in the TV3 news article linked previously on this thread.

EDIT - Hmmmmmmmmmm :

http://twitter.com/davidcochrane/status/13132123189

EDIT 2 - Hmmm plot thickens - a technology journalist tweeted unconfirmed reports about Gerry Ryan on his public access twitter account:

http://www.yourtechstuff.com/techwire/2010/04/breaking-news-death-and-twitter.html

electron

i believe they were right to do so, that's all i have to say

edit: referring to RTE, of course

rovert

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I thought it smacked of, 'We'll tell the plebs when we're good and ready...' I'd love to know what journos working within RTE think of it all. Are we living in a world now where the new media breaks news, and the old media wait a respectful few hours before announcing tired old facts as if they've got the exclusive. (Having said all that, I did not get to hear any of the RTE coverage, though I understand that as soon as Ryan's death was announced, the tributes were superb.)

*facepalm*

This has nothing or little to do with new vs old media in this instance. RTE would have broken the news sooner if they could contact his family sooner.

Thoie

rovert wrote: »

*facepalm*

This has nothing or little to do with new vs old media in this instance. RTE would have broken the news sooner if they could contact his family sooner.

Isn't it usually the job of the gardaí/hospital staff to inform the relatives, not the employer? In this case the employer obviously notified someone when he didn't turn up for work - I saw it reported that a friend went to the apartment. Presumably that person called an ambulance and things went from there.

The Muppet

Barname wrote: »

I think its an example of how 'old' media RTE are.

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I thought it smacked of, 'We'll tell the plebs when we're good and ready...' I'd love to know what journos working within RTE think of it all. Are we living in a world now where the new media breaks news, and the old media wait a respectful few hours before announcing tired old facts as if they've got the exclusive. (Having said all that, I did not get to hear any of the RTE coverage, though I understand that as soon as Ryan's death was announced, the tributes were superb.)

It's standard practice not to name a deceasd live on air until the next of kin have been informed. This is as it should be.

Slideshowbob wrote: »

It's just a discussion, the fact is there is no time honoured protocol established for the likes of twitter etc and that is how the story gained credibility.

It's just that at 2.55pm yesterday on the web it was as good as fact, whereas Joe Duffy was going on about all sorts of funny stuff which seemed totally inappropriate. Then on 3pm RTE1 radio news - nothing was mentioned either. Just seemed strange at the time.

Joe Duffy was't given the news until he came off air.

Barname

rovert wrote: »

*facepalm*

This has nothing or little to do with new vs old media in this instance. RTE would have broken the news sooner if they could contact his family sooner.

Fail & Fail

Fail 1 - It has everything to do with old media v new media

Fail 2 - It was not RTE's 'job' to contact his family

(RTE have no problem identifying other peoples deaths by stating, 'named locally' it appears that RTE were notifying their 'stars' as early as 2pm, RTE decided they would inform the plebs at 3:30pm)

kwalshe

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I thought it smacked of, 'We'll tell the plebs when we're good and ready...' I'd love to know what journos working within RTE think of it all. Are we living in a world now where the new media breaks news, and the old media wait a respectful few hours before announcing tired old facts as if they've got the exclusive. (Having said all that, I did not get to hear any of the RTE coverage, though I understand that as soon as Ryan's death was announced, the tributes were superb.)

Jesus, they had just found out their work collegue and friend of 20+ year has died. You people are like social vultures. This thread is stupid

BrianD

Barname wrote: »

I think its an example of how 'old' media RTE are.

I don't think so. RTE are a huge user of new media. Clare Duignan made it quite clear why they didn't break the story earlier. As she said, while it would be sadness to a great number of people it was not end of the world stuff and it could wait.

In regard to Twitter, I followed the story there and before it got flooded on the story, the initial Tweets were from people I had never heard of or had almost no Tweeting history. Even the Miriam tweet was in reply to somebody and even I thought has this account been hacked? It did occur to me that this could be a big spoof.

Sadly, it wasn't and personally I think that Gerry's passing is a big loss to Irish broadcasting RIP.

Real FM

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I thought it smacked of, 'We'll tell the plebs when we're good and ready...' I'd love to know what journos working within RTE think of it all. Are we living in a world now where the new media breaks news, and the old media wait a respectful few hours before announcing tired old facts as if they've got the exclusive. (Having said all that, I did not get to hear any of the RTE coverage, though I understand that as soon as Ryan's death was announced, the tributes were superb.)

Yes I'm sure that after hearing the man who is central to 2fm, their future Saturday night TV host and colleague for the past 20 + years all they were concerned about was putting it to the plebs. :rolleyes:

Regardless of the fact that RTE also has personal ties with Gerry Ryan its standard practice for news agencies not to announce anything until all close relatives have been notified. Fact. This is not a case of RTE failing but other media outlets jumping the gun.

In fairness though it would be extremely hard for a news outlet not to be tempted into leading with such a big story.

Diabhal Beag

They were right in this case. The family should always be informed first as a sign of decency.

rovert

Thoie wrote: »

Isn't it usually the job of the gardaí/hospital staff to inform the relatives, not the employer? In this case the employer obviously notified someone when he didn't turn up for work - I saw it reported that a friend went to the apartment. Presumably that person called an ambulance and things went from there.

RTE would contact his family to ensure that they all have been informed.

Barname wrote: »

Fail & Fail

Fail 1 - It has everything to do with old media v new media

Fail 2 - It was not RTE's 'job' to contact his family

(RTE have no problem identifying other peoples deaths by stating, 'named locally' it appears that RTE were notifying their 'stars' as early as 2pm, RTE decided they would inform the plebs at 3:30pm)

Just bizarre

Think about this and then come back to me or just read/re-read what I wrote.

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

They were right in this case. The family should always be informed first as a sign of decency.

But that SO old media, man :rolleyes:

Get wit da times grandad

Barname

rovert wrote: »

Just bizarre

Think about this and then come back to me or just read/re-read what I wrote.

here is the link to what you posted;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65674505&postcount=19

*facepalm*

This has nothing or little to do with new vs old media in this instance. RTE would have broken the news sooner if they could contact his family sooner.

bizzare is you

rovert

Barname wrote: »

here is the link to what you posted;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65674505&postcount=19

Yes and?

You've yet to give reasons for Fail 1 & 2.

So how do you think his family should have been informed? Animated gif? Thats very nu-media.

Ive yet to read a coherent counter point from you to counter what people are disagreeing with you have said.

Barname

rovert wrote: »

So how do you think his family should have been informed? Animated gif? Thats very nu-media.

first you fail, now you are being facetious..

The friend who 'found' Gerry or the Gardai are the ones to inform the family.

rovert wrote: »

Ive yet to read a coherent counter point to want people are disagreeing with you have said.

this line may need to be edited by you, it currently makes no sense. I can only respond to comments that are comprehensible

rovert

Everything I said in the previous post still stands. You've a very poor argument and you are expressing it poorly.

Stop with the bitchy comments and start actually discussing it please, it is getting tiresome.

Bard

RTÉ didn't delay half as long as I thought they would. Originally heard that they were holding back until 5pm (which I'd have had no problem with - it was a big story certainly, but it wasn't of national importance that it be announced as early as possible) - but it was then announced on air at 3.30pm as part of the Nuacht and mentioned by both Larry Gogan and Derek Mooney.

EDIT: Barname and rovert - any chance you could take your personal argument elsewhere? It's inappropriate and tiresome.

rovert

Bard wrote: »

RTÉ didn't delay half as long as I thought they would. Originally heard that they were holding back until 5pm (which I'd have had no problem with - it was a big story certainly, but it wasn't of national importance that it be announced as early as possible) - but it was then announced on air at 3.30pm as part of the Nuacht and mentioned by both Larry Gogan and Derek Mooney.

EDIT: Barname and rovert - any chance you could take your personal argument elsewhere?

I dont want it to be personal that is what Im trying trying to address with the previous post. I would like to discuss the issues rather than posters posting fail in response to points without properly stating why it is a fail in their opinion. The ball is in the other poster's court on that one.

bbability

This thread is just about running in thin ice. Keep to the topic or it will be closed.

rovert

So what is the alternative way that RTE should have handled it if you disagreed with their approach? It was as a much as a HR/personnel issue as an editorial issue for RTE (this where the nu media talking point falls flat). Are people here really advocating that they should have broken the news before ensuring his family of one of their longer standing employees knew about it? Is there quirks and inconsistencies to the approach RTE took? No question but it is the most decent way of approaching it in my view at least.

mbur

Couldn't we frame this question another way. Such as, Did media outlet 'xxx' jump the gun on this story? The claim seems to be that RTE waited until all the ducks were in line before treating the story as 'news'. So who didn't?

mike65

Slideshowbob wrote: »

There you go

It's actually interesting in another respect, I think on boards somewhere someone mentioned that they heard it off a relative who was an emergency worker or something at the scene, I'd imagine they have confidentiality terms to their work that is also compromised by "new" media and all it brings with it.

I started a thread about that topic
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055898884

Slideshowbob

It seems a journalist gave the story initial credance on twitter:

http://www.yourtechstuff.com/techwire/2010/04/breaking-news-death-and-twitter.html

Quote from journalist:
"-- By 1.45pm, I had calls from two separate people on the issue, one of whom had been at the scene. At 2.15pm. I got a text from a third person. I then called a friend in RTE: he said that it was true.

-- I went onto Twitter. I said that I had heard of something that had happened to Gerry Ryan. At this point, it was "unconfirmed". This was because I did not have a statement from RTE, the Garda or his family: no-one did."

Quote of a later comment:
"You are a tech journalist, why did you tweet unconfirmed reports about a celebrity’s death on your public access twitter account? Your name is up in lights - well done. As a long time reader of SBP I would have thought its journalists would have had more integrity.

With all due respect to you and the tech journalist's fraternity, perhaps you need a personal twitter account, a work account, and maybe add a death notices section to the SBP – then you will can become an even bigger asset to the paper."

Southsider1

I'd say G. Ryan is up there somewhere having a good giggle at ye all squabbling over the rights and wrongs of the news release... Oh, the irony!!:D

electron

Thoie wrote: »

Isn't it usually the job of the gardaí/hospital staff to inform the relatives, not the employer?

it's employer's job to confirm that the family has been informed, before making a public statement. that's all, end of story.

eth0_

Of course they were right to hold off. As his employer and as a professional broadcaster, their news department waited until they had official confirmation from the Gardai - i.e. AFTER his family had been informed.

To the people going on about how Joe Duffy was carrying on with lighthearted chat after you'd all heard the rumour of Gerry's death, Joe said several times yesterday that he wasn't informed until he came off-air at 3pm - around the time his death was officially confirmed.

LucyBliss

I have no problem with them holding off on the news as long as they did. As much as people might have thought they knew Gerry Ryan from listening to him on the radio and think they're entitled to know what happened to him, the only people entitled were his family. Personally I couldn't think of much worse than either hearing on the radio or reading on some social networking site that one of my nearest and dearest had suddenly passed away, or having someone text or ring me saying what they'd just heard and wanting it verified.

I would hate to think that we were the kind of country where a bit of decency and common courtesy couldn't be observed in the light of such a sudden and shocking death.

Fuinseog

Gerry Ryan -the irish lady Di.

a national day of mourning is called for.

tbh

Fuinseog wrote: »

Gerry Ryan -the irish lady Di.

a national day of mourning is called for.

I understand the point you're making although I think you lessened it by expressing it the way you did. it's a fair point to say that a lot of people who never knew him are grieving, or expressing their grief, in a way they wouldn't when, say, their granny died. I think Noel Gallagher made that point about lady di. However, It's also true that there are a lot of people who were genuinely shocked and saddened by his death for a number of reasons, and just because you don't feel the same, it doesn't mean that their feelings are any less valid or genuine.

In terms of the question, I think it was a judgement call. I heard the head of RTE radio criticize other stations for announcing it so soon, and I don't think that's valid - it was a national news story. However, I wouldn't have any problem with them doing what they thought was right by the man, and they obviously thought the right thing to do was hold off.

Barname

Fuinseog wrote: »

Gerry Ryan -the irish lady Di.

a national day of mourning is called for.

to quote John McEnroe;

'you cannot be serious'

robinph

It was right for RTE to hold off on announcing the death until the family had been notified.

It was also however wrong of RTE to pretend that nothing had happened once the story had got out into the wild by other means. The leaving the rumour mill to run free is surely more disrespectful to the family than just having come out and confirmed the reports a bit sooner once the news had broken by other sources.

Thoie

Thoie wrote: »

Isn't it usually the job of the gardaí/hospital staff to inform the relatives, not the employer?

rovert wrote: »

RTE would contact his family to ensure that they all have been informed.

electron wrote: »

it's employer's job to confirm that the family has been informed, before making a public statement. that's all, end of story.

I think some of the confusion is arising because the employer and the national news agency are the same in this case. Taking things from a hypothetical stance.

I work for ABCompany and am in the public eye. I die. The emergency services notify my family. My employer finds out. RTÉ finds out. In this situation would RTÉ contact my family to ensure they all know before announcing it? From here:

In general, it is RTÉ’s policy not to identify victims of murder or indeed any fatal accident until the victim’s family has been informed. In this instance, given that the victim’s name had been broadcast earlier in the day, the fact that Gardaí were present outside the xxx household and that all journalists were fully aware at that time that xxx had been murdered, this was regarded as sufficient justification to identify him in the Nine O’ Clock News report.
...
RTÉ is not obliged to wait to identify a victim until “official” notification has taken place.

So, a bit of a mixed bag. On the one hand it's their policy not to identify people early, on the other hand they're not obliged to wait. In the quoted case, the fact that "everyone knew" was considered enough justification to go ahead.

I think it just comes down to the fact that people are human. We have an expectation that the national broadcaster will report the news. I would have expected 3pm bulletins to say something along the lines of "Reports are coming in that...", as I've heard many times before. I can appreciate that RTÉ as an employer, as a friend of the deceased may have decided to hold back. My objection is that they don't always show the same respect for other people's families/friends.

rovert

Barname wrote: »

to quote John McEnroe;

'you cannot be serious'

Stop trolling this section thx, youve been asked alre4ady.

robinph wrote: »

It was also however wrong of RTE to pretend that nothing had happened once the story had got out into the wild by other means. The leaving the rumour mill to run free is surely more disrespectful to the family than just having come out and confirmed the reports a bit sooner once the news had broken by other sources.

Says who?

Thoie wrote: »

I think it just comes down to the fact that people are human. We have an expectation that the national broadcaster will report the news. I would have expected 3pm bulletins to say something along the lines of "Reports are coming in that...", as I've heard many times before. I can appreciate that RTÉ as an employer, as a friend of the deceased may have decided to hold back. My objection is that they don't always show the same respect for other people's families/friends.

Give proper examples so we can have a proper discussion.

robinph

rovert wrote: »

Says who?

Me.

rovert

robinph wrote: »

Me.

Helpful response there.

Thoie

rovert wrote: »

Give proper examples so we can have a proper discussion.

My example was in the BCC report linked to in my post.

Here's another one.