3 National Broadband Scheme - how do I escalate a complaint?

ToadVine

I got 3 NBS about ten days ago as I have no other BB options. I installed everything and got repeater, Mi-Fi, etc working. From day 1 the speeds were between 0.3gbps and 1.5gbps download and 0.01mbps and 0.3mbps upload with pings between 90ms and 400ms. In other words absolute crap. The connection also constantly dropped ... the Internet is in effect unusable.

So I decided to contact 3 to see if they could do something about this. I now know the meaning of frustration.

First contact with 1913 was last Monday. The Indian tech based in Bombay ran me through a plethora of tests which had absolutely no effect. He then promised me that the Irish Network Support team had been emailed as a priority and they would be back to me within 48 hours max.

Wednesday came (48 hours later) and still no contact from 3 so I called 1913 again on Wednesday afternoon and got Bombay again. An incredibly polite Indian technicians listened patiently, and then assured me my complaint was sent again to a higher level Irish Network Support team and that I would be guaranteed to hear back within 24 hours.

Friday came (another 48 hours) and still nothing from 3. I phoned 1913 again and this time insisted to talk to a manager rather than go through the same thing with another technician. The manager listened to my story (I was telling it for the 3rd or 4th time at this stage) and gave me his word that he would deal with this personally and that he had enough clout to escalate this to the highest level of the Network Support Team in Dublin. he also promised to personally phone me back within 2 hours to let me know what was happening.

6 hours later ... no phone call ... I'm sitting in front of a computer that refuses to connect to the Internet and when it does it takes an age to load a page and drops connection immediately I click on a link.

I am not happy when I phone 3 again. Another Indian technician. Takes my details again. Listens to my story again. Promises to email Dublin and escalate my complaint again. Tells me I'm guaranteed to be contacted within 48 hours again. I am fuming and tell him all this has been done to no effect twice before. He cannot pass me to anyone higher because they have all left for the weekend. He cannot do anything except email Dublin with my complaint. He assures me that I will be contacted within 48 hours.

I hang up feeling more frustrated that I have ever felt before.

So what can I do now? Is there anyway I can contact Dublin directly? There must be a way around Indian tech support ... anyone know what it is? Who can I email? What can I do?

Any advice appreciated.

jay93

ToadVine wrote: »

I got 3 NBS about ten days ago as I have no other BB options. I installed everything and got repeater, Mi-Fi, etc working. From day 1 the speeds were between 0.3gbps and 1.5gbps download and 0.01mbps and 0.3mbps upload with pings between 90ms and 400ms. In other words absolute crap. The connection also constantly dropped ... the Internet is in effect unusable.

So I decided to contact 3 to see if they could do something about this. I now know the meaning of frustration.

First contact with 1913 was last Monday. The Indian tech based in Bombay ran me through a plethora of tests which had absolutely no effect. He then promised me that the Irish Network Support team had been emailed as a priority and they would be back to me within 48 hours max.

Wednesday came (48 hours later) and still no contact from 3 so I called 1913 again on Wednesday afternoon and got Bombay again. An incredibly polite Indian technicians listened patiently, and then assured me my complaint was sent again to a higher level Irish Network Support team and that I would be guaranteed to hear back within 24 hours.

Friday came (another 48 hours) and still nothing from 3. I phoned 1913 again and this time insisted to talk to a manager rather than go through the same thing with another technician. The manager listened to my story (I was telling it for the 3rd or 4th time at this stage) and gave me his word that he would deal with this personally and that he had enough clout to escalate this to the highest level of the Network Support Team in Dublin. he also promised to personally phone me back within 2 hours to let me know what was happening.

6 hours later ... no phone call ... I'm sitting in front of a computer that refuses to connect to the Internet and when it does it takes an age to load a page and drops connection immediately I click on a link.

I am not happy when I phone 3 again. Another Indian technician. Takes my details again. Listens to my story again. Promises to email Dublin and escalate my complaint again. Tells me I'm guaranteed to be contacted within 48 hours again. I am fuming and tell him all this has been done to no effect twice before. He cannot pass me to anyone higher because they have all left for the weekend. He cannot do anything except email Dublin with my complaint. He assures me that I will be contacted within 48 hours.

I hang up feeling more frustrated that I have ever felt before.

So what can I do now? Is there anyway I can contact Dublin directly? There must be a way around Indian tech support ... anyone know what it is? Who can I email? What can I do?

Any advice appreciated.

thats a shame when it works it is good enough for general browsing youtube etc we have 2 laptops in our house one has 3 BB and ONE has O2 BB (my own has o2 ) both work great fly along all day never goes below 1mb at peak times .. all your calls are routed through india sadly when i rang 3 before it always goes to india ill have a check and see if i can find a number for dublin how can they expect india to handle internet probs when they are miles away sadening it is are you able to even get o2 vf or meteor in your area they might be worth a try but by your post it seems only 3 have singal in your area :mad::mad: some NBS this is prob even worse than nothing

my o2 connection connected all day fast downloads it all depends on where you live on this island for wireless broadband

jay93

Contact
Phone: +353-1-5426300
Fax: +353-1-5426301

Hutchison 3G Ireland Limited
3rd Floor
1 Clarendon Row
Dublin 2
Ireland

copied from 3's site this number appears to be for their head office for ireland so im sure they may be able to sort you out if they tell you to ring 1913 tell them that india cant do much that you want to talk to someone in ireland since obviously india cant come out and fix the problem ..if all fails ring 1913 and demand to be put through to someone in ireland engineers department or something

drunkmonkey

Call them on 1913 again, request an
engineer come visit, don't demand ; )

jay93

haha yeah dont demand at first if they refuse which they shouldnt then start to demand it :p only joking ..and if the problem is not fixed keep persisting with them i find that if you keep at 3 they give in eventually give in to you unlike my ordeal with vodafone midband they wont budge to even try reselove problems they couldnt even be bothered listening so let us know how it goes anyway :D

ToadVine

jay93 wrote: »

Contact
Phone: +353-1-5426300
Fax: +353-1-5426301

Hutchison 3G Ireland Limited
3rd Floor
1 Clarendon Row
Dublin 2
Ireland

Thanks I already tried this ... they cant do anything ... all NBS issues have to go through 1913.

ToadVine

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Call them on 1913 again, request an
engineer come visit, don't demand ; )

I have requested this a few times now ... no success getting past Indian tech support.

Does anyone know the best way to escalate this at this point?

cowboy.1981

ToadVine wrote: »

I have requested this a few times now ... no success getting past Indian tech support.

Does anyone know the best way to escalate this at this point?

This is absolutely normal experience for the mobile midband "service" offered by 3.

If you are in an NBS area, the Govt have contracted 3 to provide a mininum specification of "always-on" internet with 1.2Mbps down, 200kbps up, and 120ms latency. If you are not getting this 24/7 you need to keep escalating until they are forced to provide you with the Satellite alternative. The satellite is not dependent on 3's mobile network and appears to work ok, so far. However, the latency is much higher.

There is no point wasting your time with India. You need to escalate to the senior management in 3, and copy to all the relevant Government authorities who are paying taxpayers money to 3 for this debacle. (€80 Million of EU/Irish tax-payers money)

Others on Boards who have escalated have found this route successful. Below is the list of people you need to escalate to. Please persevere - don't let 3 get away with this shoddy service.

Even if you are continuing to pursue your issues with 3, it is important that the relevant authorities are informed that the service delivered to customers is not working as contracted.

Here is the list of people you should escalate to,

• Minister Eamon Ryan, <eamon.ryan@oireachtas.ie>
• ComReg (you will need a complaint ref number from 3, if they ever respond to you) http://www.askcomreg.ie/tell_us/comp...ries.51.LE.asp
• Patrick Kidney in Analysy Mason, the Consultants who are responsible for monitoring the performance of 3 under the NBS contract, <patrick.kidney@analysysmason.com>
• Robert Finnegan, CEO 3 Ireland, 3rd Floor, 6-10 Suffolk Street, Dublin 2
• The Office of the Comptroller & Auditor General, who is responsible for ensuring that public funds are not misappropriated <samantha_lee@audgen.irlgov.ie>
• Your local Public Representatives (Ministers, Councillors)
• Your local media (radio, newspapers)

Also claim a refund for the full period where the service failed to meet the minimum specification - you are entitled to it. If you don't get anywhere lodge a case with the Small Claims Court. It will cost you €15, but you can claim this back plus all your wasted time in expenses. 3 settle these cases before they go to court, because they don't want to pay lawyers to show up in court.

Don't give up, and thanks for sharing your problems on Boards. It helps others realise that they are not alone, when they read posts like yours.

jay93

ToadVine wrote: »

Thanks I already tried this ... they cant do anything ... all NBS issues have to go through 1913.

really ??:eek::eek: jesus that is poor service on 3's part head office in dublin and they say they cant do anything thats bull i really taught the head office would have done something how can they expect india to get a problem fixed when they are not even in the country !!! i would be fuming at this stage if this problem happened to me suggest maybe that you contact minister ryan and comreg..
the governement funding at mobile broadband provider and cant even set up at tech support line in the republic disgrace im actually disguisted at this the last thing you can do is keep at the indians and tell them how annoyed at dissapointed you are at the service you are getting and keep asking for supervisors and keep going till you are assured someone will get your problem sorted if all else fails tell them if they dont fix it that you want the sattelite service they have to provide it at the same price 20euro a month but im not sure how you go about that as i dont depend on NBS..

ToadVine

cowboy.1981 wrote: »

This is absolutely normal experience for the mobile midband "service" offered by 3.

If you are in an NBS area, the Govt have contracted 3 to provide a mininum specification of "always-on" internet with 1.2Mbps down, 200kbps up, and 120ms latency. If you are not getting this 24/7 you need to keep escalating until they are forced to provide you with the Satellite alternative. The satellite is not dependent on 3's mobile network and appears to work ok, so far. However, the latency is much higher.

There is no point wasting your time with India. You need to escalate to the senior management in 3, and copy to all the relevant Government authorities who are paying taxpayers money to 3 for this debacle. (€80 Million of EU/Irish tax-payers money)

Others on Boards who have escalated have found this route successful. Below is the list of people you need to escalate to. Please persevere - don't let 3 get away with this shoddy service.

Even if you are continuing to pursue your issues with 3, it is important that the relevant authorities are informed that the service delivered to customers is not working as contracted.

Here is the list of people you should escalate to,

• Minister Eamon Ryan, <eamon.ryan@oireachtas.ie>
• ComReg (you will need a complaint ref number from 3, if they ever respond to you) http://www.askcomreg.ie/tell_us/comp...ries.51.LE.asp
• Patrick Kidney in Analysy Mason, the Consultants who are responsible for monitoring the performance of 3 under the NBS contract, <patrick.kidney@analysysmason.com>
• Robert Finnegan, CEO 3 Ireland, 3rd Floor, 6-10 Suffolk Street, Dublin 2
• The Office of the Comptroller & Auditor General, who is responsible for ensuring that public funds are not misappropriated <samantha_lee@audgen.irlgov.ie>
• Your local Public Representatives (Ministers, Councillors)
• Your local media (radio, newspapers)

Also claim a refund for the full period where the service failed to meet the minimum specification - you are entitled to it. If you don't get anywhere lodge a case with the Small Claims Court. It will cost you €15, but you can claim this back plus all your wasted time in expenses. 3 settle these cases before they go to court, because they don't want to pay lawyers to show up in court.

Don't give up, and thanks for sharing your problems on Boards. It helps others realise that they are not alone, when they read posts like yours.

Thank you so, so much for this.

I will make this my life's work. I will not rest for one second until I have everything I am entitled to from 3. They have picked the wrong person to provide crappy customer service to.

mickydoomsux

I can predict the exact response from at least 5 of those people you contact:

'Ah shure it'll be grand. We're setting up a commitee to look into it.'

Unfortunatly, you, like many other people who are being forced to use the NBS, have been 'Irished'. We don't do infrastructure, only cheaply built, badly zoned property. And lots of it!!!!!

clohamon

ToadVine wrote: »

Thank you so, so much for this.

I will make this my life's work. I will not rest for one second until I have everything I am entitled to from 3. They have picked the wrong person to provide crappy customer service to.

I wrote to the department about this nearly a year ago. For what its worth the post is here

This is the relevant part of the reply from the department.

In cases, where the issue remains unresolved the customer can contact the Department. In such cases the Department will take account of all information provided to it by the customer and will carry out separate enquiries and investigations to establish the level of 3's compliance or otherwise with the NBS contract. Where following its investigation, the DCENR establishes that 3 are in breach of the NBS conditions it can request 3 to remedy the situation so as to ensure that the NBS guaranteed service is provided. If the Department's investigation establishes that 3 are compliant with the NBS service obligations, the Department will inform the customer of its conclusions and supporting reasons.

Shortly after I received the reply my ED was de-activated. A solution of a sort.

ToadVine

clohamon wrote: »

I wrote to the department about this nearly a year ago. For what its worth the post is here

Shortly after I received the reply my ED was de-activated. A solution of a sort.

Hi clohamon

I've read the post you linked to. Did you get your issues resolved, and what did the Dept of DCENR and ComReg do if anything?

Did 3 give you the satellite?

Also, what do you mean by saying your ED was de-activated?

watty

If an Electoral District gets over a certain threshold of real Broadband availability, then 3 doesn't get paid 88,000 or what ever it is to add coverage, nor do they get subsidised to provide satellite. Essentially the ED gets removed from the NBS scheme.

The 3 mobile service and the 3 masts are themselves not an NBS service, simply the regular mobile phone network at same charges. Only the Satellite service and the per ED given coverage by 3's Mobile phone system are part of NBS. The Satellite service is serious subsidy of install and maybe €30 a month running cost subsidy. I guess when NBS ends the satellite users could be seeing €60+ a month charges, though they get a more reliable and often better service than the Mobile Phone network Data users.

clohamon

ToadVine wrote: »

Hi clohamon

I've read the post you linked to. Did you get your issues resolved, and what did the Dept of DCENR and ComReg do if anything?

Did 3 give you the satellite?

Also, what do you mean by saying your ED was de-activated?

At the time I wrote the letter my ED had recently gone green and I was thinking about an NBS connection. As the mast is nearly 5 kms away I wasn't expecting a great service, so the point of the letter was just to try and clarify the escalation procedure in advance in case there was a dispute.

As you can see Comreg washed their hands entirely of the whole scheme and passed me over to DCENR.

DCENR wrote back after about two months. Their response was weak I thought; it appears that they have very little real power.

I decided not to go ahead at that time, but not long after the letter arrived from DCENR, the ED was turned back to red (a unique reversal, I believe). So the NBS option is no longer available to me until they decide to turn it back to green again.

the watchman

HI OP. You seem to be getting all the help you need so here are a few more contacts. I was unhappy with 3 ,still am but I always think half the reason they don't get back to is that they just cant give you a better service. In my innocence I thought I was going to get 3.2Mbs with the normal 3g but I only ever get 50kbs-250kbs sometimes. I went through all the usuall stuff your going through.
I wrote paper letters to all the big wigs, at least its nice for those at the top to have to get involved sometime and earn their big bucks.
Depending on how you feel with the responces you could start txting and calling mobiles - doeasnt matter if they're not the right people - they stillwork for '3' and should pass on your querries. just politely 'keep at them'. call mobiles at 10.30 at night etc.
Good luck.

General info and contact on 3


Chief executive Robert Finnegan
(why not mark mail private and confidential)

Hutchinson 3g
Roi
Credit and collections
Ms. Lorraine Erasmos

Sonopress distribute + process phone devices

Robert marshal corporate affairs manager

David Riley /head of PR and sponsorship
<snip>
PR and Communications Director. Mob -snip-
Sarah o’niell pr and communications executive. Mob -snip-
Katherine Thomas PR and communications executive

Damien Gallagher
Head of business and new initiatives
Batchelor of computing(hons) degree

Sales director
Elaine carey.

Susan branchflower
Head of marketing – reports to r finnigan.

David Kent, Head of Entertainment and Internet Propositions

drunkmonkey

that's an idiot of a post, have you any bit of cop on, listing up people phone numbers and saying to call them in the night is not the way to get a problem solved.
If I was any of the people up there I'd be calling the Garda on the caller.

3 have an escalation procedure. You go through 1913 and you do not make demands as it won't work, either will intimidation.

Sponge Bob

Drunkmonkey wrote:

3 have an escalation procedure. You go through 1913 and you do not make demands as it won't work, either will intimidation

NOOOOO, you do it in WRITING

The issue of 3 Complaints in general and how to formally escalate them is explained here with links.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055697446&highlight=procedure

Three usually do NOT record their contract negotiations like they always should and cannot prove there is a valid contract in many cases.

the watchman

drunkmonkey wrote: »

that's an idiot of a post, have you any bit of cop on, listing up people phone numbers and saying to call them in the night is not the way to get a problem solved.
If I was any of the people up there I'd be calling the Garda on the caller.

3 have an escalation procedure. You go through 1913 and you do not make demands as it won't work, either will intimidation.

I think drunkmonkey with respect you should read with closer attention. You may have missunderstood my suggestions.
Nowhere do I suggest 'making demands'
Also I use the word 'politey' pursue your queries.
And nowhere do I suggest breaking the law, no need for calling the garda.

If you pursue these things in a polite and manerley way it sometimes get results. I went through the same stuff as OP. Going through India takes forever and a day. Just like many others. It got me absoluteley nowhere.It just frustrates and I refused to deal with them anymore.
So when I started contacting all the top people in Dublin, (in a polite and manerly way within the law!) I got results...meaningful replies in a language I could easily understand.

Hope this clarifies my previous post 'for you'.

drunkmonkey

the watchman wrote: »

I think drunkmonkey with respect you should read with closer attention. You may have missunderstood my suggestions.
Nowhere do I suggest 'making demands'
Also I use the word 'politey' pursue your queries.
And nowhere do I suggest breaking the law, no need for calling the garda.

If you pursue these things in a polite and manerley way it sometimes get results. I went through the same stuff as OP. Going through India takes forever and a day. Just like many others. It got me absoluteley nowhere.It just frustrates and I refused to deal with them anymore.
So when I started contacting all the top people in Dublin, (in a polite and manerly way within the law!) I got results...meaningful replies in a language I could easily understand.

Hope this clarifies my previous post 'for you'.

You listed peoples phone numbers and told people to call them at night. It was pretty clear what you said. Is that how you reward people who help you by sticking up there private numbers on a public forum.
This post contradicts your one in another thread where you act clueless.

If your refusing to deal with support, go find another provider. There support is in India, that shouldn't be a problem but some people make in into one.
The only people i've seen not to get helped by india are people who don't play ball, are abusive and make demands while never trouble shooting the problems.

Sponge Bob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The only people i've seen not to get helped by india are people who don't play ball, are abusive and make demands while never trouble shooting the problems.

You mean when they would not clean a perfectly clean sim when mumbai told them ???? What is your connection with 3 Drunkmonkey and why did you not tell people the correct complaint procedure...not that the watchman did mind.

jor el

the watchman wrote: »

If you pursue these things in a polite and manerley way it sometimes get results.

It's neither polite nor mannerly to ring people at 10.30 at night, especially when they have nothing to do with the problems you're experiencing. Contacting people in the PR department is a ridiculous thing to do. You need the head of customer service if you can't get anywhere with the phone reps. As Sponge Bob says, a letter is the way to go.

Cabaal

the watchman banned for two weeks for acting the muppet, these people are employee's and are doing their job, nobody should be harrasing PR people like you are suggesting

[EDIT] ban reduced to 5 days

anotherfinemess

I'm having similar problems. After signing up in January and getting no usable service I asked for the satellite connection they promised and was told they don't supply it anymore (this was days after they signed me up on the promise of satellite in the event of a poor signal!). Since then they have continued to hound me for money and leave threatening messages on my voicemail almost daily. I have had letters from 3 Customer Services, Hutchison 3G Ireland, PO Box 333, Dublin 2. Tel 0833333333I have sent letters and emails but never receive replies which indicate that they have read my letters etc, only more demands for money. I have written to the local paper (Southern Star), which so far has shown no interest in the story. I'm thinking of writing to whichever merchant banker is in charge of the ministry which decided to give these pals of his the tax payer's money to pretend to set up a national broadband scheme! Perhaps those of us here who are having these problems can get together and form a collective force to be reckoned with?

Sponge Bob

read this thread below and read the watchmans first post on top of this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055697446&highlight=procedure

3 have probably claimed public and eu money for your electoral district.

Be prepared to Escalate to the EU and to the Comptroller and Auditor General. Claiming public and eu money and THEN not providing a service is fraud ....last time I looked. The government is paying 3 around €40k of Irish Taxpayers money for your electoral district. The EU is paying another €40k.

These monies are paid to 3 when Analysys Mason states an electoral district is live ( green on map ) . Once an electoral district is LIVE then EVERY person living it it is entitled to a full service either by 3g ( if near a mast) or by satellite if not. 100% coverage is required by one means or another.

Also do an FoI Application on the report that Analysys Mason submitted to the DCENR for your electoral district.

Do tell us when they install that satellite system simply to get rids of you

drunkmonkey

Did you see what he said, op was asking for the satellite service, now being chased for not paying his bill, this nbs connection was not followed through with tech support. It was a demand for satellite, the demand wasn't met so op didn't pay, now they have no service.

3 will refund you while your nbs connection gets sorted out, if you don't pay it won't be sorted out, you can write to who ever you want but I'd settle the bill, get a refund from customer care for no service and I'd follow up the problem with tech support.

fartmaster

ive being getting junk mail in the post for 3 broadband. I live outside Blackwater in Wexford and other than dial up I have no way of accessing the internet and no hope of getting broadband from Eircom even though my enchange is bradban enabled. Im very wary of getting mobile broadband as I dont want to get tied to a contract and not get the service they advertise. How long is a contract with 3? do they give a trial period? If any one in Wexford has had an experience with them id be very interested in hearing about it? Is there any way to locate were the nearest mast is to my home?

anotherfinemess

I won't be wanting their poxy satellite now, Eircom have landed at last and I've got a 1 Mb connection with them as of 2 days ago. 3 can go boil their heads now.

drunkmonkey

fartmaster wrote: »

ive being getting junk mail in the post for 3 broadband. I live outside Blackwater in Wexford and other than dial up I have no way of accessing the internet and no hope of getting broadband from Eircom even though my enchange is bradban enabled. Im very wary of getting mobile broadband as I dont want to get tied to a contract and not get the service they advertise. How long is a contract with 3? do they give a trial period? If any one in Wexford has had an experience with them id be very interested in hearing about it? Is there any way to locate were the nearest mast is to my home?

try it out, you haven't a whole load of options, a lot of people are happy with the service. If it's not good straight out of the box you may need to call support a few times to get the service running correctly. You've a 14 day trial period but it could take longer than that before your service is fully up to scratch. If you live in a pretty isolated area your chances of getting a good quick connection are high.

drunkmonkey

anotherfinemess wrote: »

I won't be wanting their poxy satellite now, Eircom have landed at last and I've got a 1 Mb connection with them as of 2 days ago. 3 can go boil their heads now.

The plot thickens:rolleyes:

ToadVine

Thanks for all the replies ... some good stuff there.

OK ... here is an update on my position. I escalated my complaint to ComReg on Wednesday. They tell me that 3 have 10 working days to deal with my problems (see my first post) and if they don't deal with them ComReg step in. I don't have any faith in ComReg, but at least it's something.

I have also emailed Eamon Ryan (no reply as yet), the C&AG (no reply), and AnalysisMason (no reply).

I have been keeping a detailed list of my speeds/pings (I had a ping of 7119m/s last night ... is that a world record?), and my contact with 1913. I currently have over 20 calls to 1913 and I have totally exhausted my options with them at this stage.

Yesterday I got a call from 3 who are sending an engineer to me on Monday to install an external antenna on my house. I phoned him and the guy said he had a range of options available to get my connection up to spec and he seemed fairly confident he would have some success. If the external antenna does not work I'll be fully expecting a satellite link. And I wont pay a penny to 3 or give up till I get it.

It's slow progress, but progress nonetheless.

I have already informed 3 that I will not be paying for any service below the minimum spec, and that if they don't provide full credit I'll be taking a claim to the small claims court.

I've only had the NBS for 2 weeks now and it has been the most frustrating 2 weeks of my life dealing with 1913. However I am making progress. My advice to anyone in my position is to follow the steps outlined by others on this thread and the links by SpongeBob above and keep insisting on what you are entitled to.

Be persistent. Don't give up. This is taxpayers money ... your money. Do not give up, do not give in to 3.

ToadVine

drunkmonkey wrote: »

3 have an escalation procedure. You go through 1913 and you do not make demands as it won't work, either will intimidation.

3 do not have an escalation procedure to speak of. This is what happens ...

1. You phone 1913 and they politely listen. Then they tell you that they have emailed your complaint/details to the network support team in Dublin and that they will phone you back in 24-48 hours.

2. They do not phone you back.

3. You call 1913 again and they tell you exactly the same thing and promise a callback from Dublin in 24-48 hours. When you say you have already been promised this they say the complaint has been fwd again this time with "highest priority level".

4. You get no call.

5. You call 1913 again and go through all the same nonsense again. They now say that Dublin have all information but that there has been an unusually high level of network problems over the last week and you can expect a callback late next week.

6. You get no call.

5. Repeat steps 1 to 6 until you want to smash your mobile phone into 1,000,000 teeny tiny pieces.

That is 3's customer support and complaints resolution procedure. It is an absolute disgrace. The tech support team in India have a script which they cannot go beyond... they have very little power to do anything. I feel sorry for them, but it is impossible not to get very frustrated by this.

drunkmonkey

ToadVine wrote: »

The tech support team in India have a script which they cannot go beyond... they have very little power to do anything

They got an engineer to someones house within 24hrs of me making a call to India last week. The NBS support has improved especially turn around times once the problem is identified. You have to play along for a few days but once you do it gets sorted out.

So what's the situation with your NBS connection at the moment. Are you still not getting anywhere, have you any service?

starfish12

why do you have to 'play along' for a few days? most people dont have time or the patience for that kind of carry on! i admit that as consumers we cant expect people to appear at our front doors with a resolution every time we ring a call centre with a problem, but surely as paying customers people should expect better from 3, having to repeatedly call the same number and reiterate the same story 3-4 times before anything happens is not a viable proposition?

drunkmonkey

When I say play along I mean follow the steps to resolution which may take a few days until everything is troublshooted. I gave 3mts playing along with Vodafone home broadband, now that's rubbish support and guess what the support was Irish it didn't make the ordeal any less painfull.

Sponge Bob

ToadVine wrote: »

Yesterday I got a call from 3 who are sending an engineer to me on Monday to install an external antenna on my house. I phoned him and the guy said he had a range of options available to get my connection up to spec and he seemed fairly confident he would have some success. If the external antenna does not work I'll be fully expecting a satellite link. And I wont pay a penny to 3 or give up till I get it.

The customer care number for the NBS is not 1913 but 1800 944 791

The sequence is.

1. Give you a dongle , if the signal is too weak then
2. Give you a repeater ( internal antenna like this) if the signal is still too weak then
3. Give you an external antenna, then
4. If all that fails to deliver the specified minimum service level, give you satellite which is NOT quite the same service level.

The 3g service spec is minimum download speed of 1.2mbps, a minimum upload speed of 200kpbs, a maximum contention ratio of 36:1, a latency of 120 milliseconds and a 12 DOWN and 3 UP cap to a total of 15 Gigabytes. This is a minimum speed, 3 claim you should get this at the edge of the cell.

It may well be faster than in some cases but should never be slower than 1.2mbps.

BUT If you get satellite off 3 the spec changes to a minimum download speed of 1.2mbps, a minimum upload speed of 128kbps, a maximum contention ratio of 48:1, latency of 800 milliseconds and a 10 DOWN and 1 UP cap to a total of 11 Gigabytes.

clohamon

Sponge Bob wrote: »

3 claim you should get this at the edge of the cell.

Is the "edge of the cell" defined?

Sponge Bob

clohamon wrote: »

Is the "edge of the cell" defined?

The edge of the cell is the limit of 3G in an electoral district that is served by the NBS, everyone else in that electoral district is supposed to get Satellite.

clohamon

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The edge of the cell is the limit of 3G

That begs the question doesn't it?

watty

The cell edge distance varies by almost 4:1 ratio or maybe more depending if there are 1 or 20 people on the sector.

As the customer base grows those on the "previous" cell edge experience more and more frequent disconnects, no connects or sub 1Mbps speed.

At Cell edge only 2 to 3 simultaneous users of entire sector* are possible to knock you below 1Mbps. This is physics, it's in the vendor spec and design of 3G/HSPA.

google CDMA cell breathing

*Typically a cell has 3 pizza slice "sectors" that overlap with each other and neighbouring cell.

drunkmonkey

Will HSPA + make any difference, they were due to announce something this week according to the business post last week but I haven't heard anything about it since.

clohamon

watty wrote: »

The cell edge distance varies by almost 4:1 ratio or maybe more depending if there are 1 or 20 people on the sector.

.

Isn't that the point.

It is the performance that defines the cell edge.

Making any guarantee of performance that uses the "cell edge" as a reference is meaningless. Its like saying it is wherever it is. And as you (Watty) say, that may change at any time.

watty

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Will HSPA + make any difference, they were due to announce something this week according to the business post last week but I haven't heard anything about it since.

no.
HSPA+ simply allows higher speed in the 10% to 2% of area close to mast and adds HSUPA (higher upload speed if there is a very good signal).

The overall increase in performance with HSPA+ compared to 3.6Mbps HSDPA is marginal. No difference to cell size and almost no increase in cell capacity. It's just software.



from http://www.techtir.ie/comms/fixed-wireless-broadband-better

Most HSDPA is the orange, HSPA and HSPA+ are yellow and dark browny/purple trace. The % of users is really based on even distribution of users in Cell. If the mast in on a building in a town/village/city that is true, if it is rural on a hill, then the graph is much worse (maybe no difference and no-one gets more than 3.6Mbps as no-one is close enough for higher speeds).

The speed depends on Signal/Noise ratio. This depends on distance (twice distance is about 1/4 speed) and because it's CDMA also on number of other users. Above a certain level of users (15?) the latency (ping) rises rapidly as they run out of CDMA codes and users must be time scheduled.

There is a significant jump in performance from 1.8Mbps to 3.6MBps (but only near to mast), but above that each increase is very marginal.

The "Green" line is for comparison with Fixed Wireless system (everyone gets same speed no matter where they are in cell, i.e. Metro or Breeze, speed limited by package rather than system capacity typically, but in the same 5Mhz channel that would be capacity speed of system, or speed for a single user on unlimited package )

Speeds in the graph are for percentage of users where only one user at a time connects.

anotherfinemess

No your chances of getting a decent connection if you are in a remote rural area are closer to zilch. Pigeons on Es would be more reliable.

watty

There is a spec for that.
You can beat even 100Mbps broadband with pigeons, but the latency is hours and packet loss can be high if there are raptors.

http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt (basic standard)

Adding QOS: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2549.txt

Think a pair of mini SDHC cards.

Of course like many advanced networking ideas it has been tested on Linux

For large file downloads from Heanet this will beat the NBS. Maybe the Green party would fund further experimentation?

I has been successfully deployed on a test basis in Israel (who have their own TV satellites and lots of fibre, unlike us). It easily beat ADSL in a South African test

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers

Or just use AnPost or Bus Eireann

Sponge Bob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Will HSPA + make any difference, they were due to announce something this week according to the business post last week but I haven't heard anything about it since.

HSPA+ and LTE are morkeshing drivel in the main. The only thing that will make any difference is if 3g is ( probably) allowed on the current GSM frequencies after they are refarmed over the next 3 years ( the eircell and digifone allocations run out in that time)

Even then they will provide a sort of universal dialup. Core HSPA frequencies are higher than core 3g frequencies and will not penetrate buildings.

Unless you propose to use your 100mbit dongle in the pissing rain outside the laws of physics will always tend to get ya

Breeding pigeons is a damn fine idea.

ToadVine

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They got an engineer to someones house within 24hrs of me making a call to India last week.

This is not my experience. It took me over 3 weeks of constant calls to get an engineer to visit.

How did you get them to call so quickly?

starfish12

it just depends on who else in your area is complaining in my experience!! if you have other people with similar problems they group them together, otherwise you end up waiting for someone to fit you in

ToadVine

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The sequence is.

1. Give you a dongle , if the signal is too weak then
2. Give you a repeater ( internal antenna like this) if the signal is still too weak then
3. Give you an external antenna, then
4. If all that fails to deliver the specified minimum service level, give you satellite which is NOT quite the same service level.

The 3g service spec is minimum download speed of 1.2mbps, a minimum upload speed of 200kpbs, a maximum contention ratio of 36:1, a latency of 120 milliseconds and a 12 DOWN and 3 UP cap to a total of 15 Gigabytes. This is a minimum speed, 3 claim you should get this at the edge of the cell.

It may well be faster than in some cases but should never be slower than 1.2mbps.

BUT If you get satellite off 3 the spec changes to a minimum download speed of 1.2mbps, a minimum upload speed of 128kbps, a maximum contention ratio of 48:1, latency of 800 milliseconds and a 10 DOWN and 1 UP cap to a total of 11 Gigabytes.

Thanks very much for this SpongeBob.

In your experience does the external antenna tend to work reliably enough? Does this external antenna go to a repeater such as the one in your post above, and if so does this have to be in the same room as the dongle? Or can it be in a different room to the room where the computer is being used with the dongle?

I am also having problems with my Mi-Fi dongle. It seems to work sorta ok when in the same room as the other computer, but wont transmit a reliable wi-fi signal if placed in a different room (but I accept this might because my signal is so weak).

I'm asking this because I hope to have the external antenna on my roof with cable to a repeater in the main bedroom, and use the mi-fi dongle with 2 or 3 computers in an office (different room). It will be difficult to get the cable/repeater to the office because of the layout of the house. Is this likely to work ok?

Sponge Bob

ToadVine wrote: »

Thanks very much for this SpongeBob.

In your experience does the external antenna tend to work reliably enough? Does this external antenna go to a repeater such as the one in your post above, and if so does this have to be in the same room as the dongle? Or can it be in a different room to the room where the computer is being used with the dongle?

Either it does or else a 2 part repeater is used ( one part inside and one part outside linked wirelessly @ 5.xxGhz usually) . I have not seen it deployed.

I am also having problems with my Mi-Fi dongle. It seems to work sorta ok when in the same room as the other computer, but wont transmit a reliable wi-fi signal if placed in a different room (but I accept this might because my signal is so weak).

Trial and error is the only way to find out. Can you up the wifi signal by configuring the output level on the Mifi or ELSE on your laptop ( driver properties for wifi network card). Both should be around 30mw minimum but could be less. Increase in 10mw steps. But I dunno to be honest.

I'm asking this because I hope to have the external antenna on my roof with cable to a repeater in the main bedroom, and use the mi-fi dongle with 2 or 3 computers in an office (different room). It will be difficult to get the cable/repeater to the office because of the layout of the house. Is this likely to work ok?

That is a recipe for grief IMO.

Maybe the Dovado solution ( thread up top) installed in a box outside could does the trick better. Get 'biscuit tin' type box, install high and external with dovado inside and sim in it ( you need to get power out) and the Dovado penetrates the wall into your house with a 2.4ghz wifi signal.

Have you K Glass installed ???

anotherfinemess

After 4 months of farting about, 3 have emailed an apology and offered me another repeater device (I refused to accept the one they sent without warning previously) and a waiver of charges. How I laughed. Ha ha. I'm demanding my money back and threatening the small claims court and max publicity. I now have eircom 1 meg broadband, it seems to be working well so its 2 fingers to 3 with gloves off.