Fake free work trials in Galway?

JohnMcManus

Has anyone experienced fake free work trials in Galway?
I mean an employer offering a job subject to you passing a free days work trial.
I had one such trial in Galway and walked out after 4 hours, after finding out it was fake (another employee told me no one ever gets the job).
They hadn't taken anyone on since January, despite having several applicants doing a days work for free. It seems like a clever way of getting free work out of people by dodgy employers.

joeKel73

I know a guy working in [Business Name Snipped] last summer, they only had 2 or 3 permanent staff, usually one on at a time, the rest of the work over the summer was rolling trials, some lasting 2weeks unpaid... :mad:

Mrs OBumble

There were rumours last summer about cafe's taking on a new person for a one-week work trial every Monday, same craic, no jobs ever followed.

foto_joe's post is there first where a specific business has been named (but that's not surprising, because boards can get in legal trouble ... naming a chain and talking about one rogue, unnamed, branch is probably safter).

But in the current climate it doesn't surprise me.

And don't even get me started on WPPs ...

Average-Ro

3 years ago I day a one day trial as a waiter in a certain bar/restaurant on the City Centre. I didn't do too well so I wasn't surprised when they didn't call back.

A girl I know had a one day trial with them two weeks later. She has planty of experience as a waitress so she did impress them. Rather than offer her the job, they asked her back for a second trial, lasting two weeks! Needless to say, she told them where to go.

I heard that this place were talking on people for the next year and a half and free trials. Is it really that hard to find a waiter/waitress?

leninbenjamin

Yup, seems to be happening a hell of a lot of late. Heard of it quite a bit myself. Some amount of chancers in this town.

Sponge Bob

2 restaurants in Quay street at it this week according to a student friend of mine. Furthermore the triallists are not allowed to share the tips either, scabby bastards In the jar they go and they are gone.

If you get offered a day or week trial ask about tips!!!

alwaysadub

Oh great. I'm trying to find a job, they either don't exsist from agencies, and now this. :mad:

inisboffin

I'm pretty sure this is totally illegal. A certain Galway Hotel which is near boats;) was *notorious* for doing this until one savvy foreign national went to Citizens Info, reported them, and recouped the wages due for the *two week unpaid trial*.

Report these people, it's awful. Particularly when they won't share tips.. that's just daft. I know it is practice for some restaurants in the US to withhold tips for a couple of days while you are training (theory being that the other staff will have to work a bit harder during that time to cover for you), but you ARE being paid, so it's different.

_Whimsical_

I agree. Report them or else write to a newspaper and expose them so people can avoid them. I'd definitely go out of my way to avoid any business that did that. No one can afford poor market place sentiment in a recession... they deserve to be hit back at where it hurts.

Sponge Bob

Report them to who ?? ....in case someone reads this thread AFTER breaking their ass for 2 weeks ?

_Whimsical_

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Report them to who ?? ....in case someone reads this thread AFTER breaking their ass for 2 weeks ?

See :

inisboffin wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this is totally illegal. A certain Galway Hotel which is near boats;) was *notorious* for doing this until one savvy foreign national went to Citizens Info, reported them, and recouped the wages due for the *two week unpaid trial*.

.

Sponge Bob

They did not REPORT them to citizens info, they were advised by citizens info reported them to some inspector or other in the dept of employment.....but who ???

Ask Senator Niall O Brolcháin maybe, give him something useful to do

inisboffin

Yeah, seems like the Employment Rights folks are the ones to go directly to.

Killed

Trouble is if you agree to take a unpaid trial period then you have very little rights as you agreed before hand that it would be unpaid.

Be very clear with the employer before hand on what conditions you are willing to work for free, the time period etc. Certainly if you had the understanding that you were to be paid for the trial period then the National Employment Rights Authority is the place to report it to.

dafunk

Are 'unpaid trials' legal? I think anyone asked to do it should check with the guards before doing it. What sort of assholes do that to people? Not only are people being robbed of their earnings but of their time and dignity if they're told there's no job at the end of it.


Is it against the rules of boards to 'name and shame' ? I'd like to know when i'm out that i'm spending money in a place that pays its staff. I would avoid going to restaurants who are taking advantage of people like this and not even giving them their tips. That's disgraceful

Amhran Nua

Killed wrote: »

Trouble is if you agree to take a unpaid trial period then you have very little rights as you agreed before hand that it would be unpaid.

Private agreements, contracts, etc., do not trump employment legislation or your rights as a worker. You cannot, for example, sign away your right to a safe working environment, we aren't living in China. If it comes back to an employer, they should have known better than to try to run their own private little legal system.

Killed

You are right of course that you cannot sign away your rights but a trial period of unpaid work agreed by an employee and an employer would be quite legitimate.

Employment law is quite complex but there's a huge difference between someone being taken on for an unpaid trial period agreed between both employee and employer and an employer who takes someone on for a trial period and then refuses to pay them if there is a understanding that it would be paid work.

Employees need to go into it with their eyes open and agree terms before starting work.

Amhran Nua

Killed wrote: »

You are right of course that you cannot sign away your rights but a trial period of unpaid work agreed by an employee and an employer would be quite legitimate.

I'm not aware of any such legislation, can you give us a link to support this?

Xiney

it's probably true - companies can take on unpaid interns so why not unpaid trial workers? not that I'm agreeing with the practise of serial unpaid trials. Just saying it might be legal after all.

Killed

I'm afraid I don't have the legal expertise to quote case law but if you ring NERA at 1890808090 they will give you the info.

inisboffin

Afaik, employers *can* pay less than min wage or allow unpaid labour, but in order to do so, they need to be granted special exemptions (ie for trainees or interns). There is some info on it on the employment rights site.

Amhran Nua

Xiney wrote: »

it's probably true - companies can take on unpaid interns so why not unpaid trial workers? not that I'm agreeing with the practise of serial unpaid trials. Just saying it might be legal after all.

I'm fairly sure unpaid internships aren't allowed either. From citizens information:

Exceptions to those entitled to receive the national minimum wage

There are some exceptions to those entitled to receive the national minimum wage. The legislation does not apply to a person employed by a close relative (for example, a spouse or parent) nor does it apply to those in statutory apprenticeships. Also some employees such as young people under 18 and trainees are only guaranteed a reduced or sub-minimum rate of the national minimum wage.

Sub-minimum rates from 1 July 2007

The National Minimum Wage Act provides the following sub-minimum rates:

* An employee who is under 18 is entitled to €6.06 per hour (this is 70% of the minimum wage)
* An employee who is in the first year of employment since the age of 18 is entitled to €6.92 per hour (80% of minimum wage)
* An employee who is in the second year of employment since the date of first employment over the age of 18 is entitled to €7.79 per hour (90% of the minimum wage)

This phasing in of the National Minimum Wage also applies to employees who are over 18 and enter employment for the first time.

Trainees

The National Minimum Wage Act also provides sub-minimum rates which apply to employees who are over 18 and undergoing a course of structured training or directed study that is authorised or approved of by the employer.

The trainee rates provided by the Act are as follows:

* First one-third of training course €6.49 per hour (75% of national minimum wage rate)
* Second one-third of training course €6.92 per hour (80% of national minimum wage rate)
* Final one third of the training course €7.79 per hour (90% of national minimum wage rate)

Note: each one third period must be at least 1 month and no more than 1 year.

The Act provides certain criteria which the training course must meet if the trainee rates are to apply. For example, the training or study must be for the purposes of improving the work performance of the employee; the employee's participation on the training or study must be directed or approved by the employer; at least 10% of the training must occur away from the employee’s ordinary operational duties; there must be an assessment and certification procedure or written confirmation on the completion of the training course.

Exemption for employer

If an employer cannot afford to pay the national minimum wage due to financial difficulty the Labour Court may exempt an employer from paying the minimum wage rate for between 3 months and 1 year. Only 1 such exemption can be allowed.

The employer must apply to the Labour Court for the exemption with the consent of a majority of the employees, who must also agree to be bound by the Labour Court decision.

The employer must demonstrate that he/she is unable to pay the national minimum wage and that, if compelled to do so, would have to lay-off employees or terminate their employment.

An exemption may only be sought from paying the full rate of the national minimum wage, not for cases covered by the reduced rate, for example, employees who are under 18 years of age.

Victimisation

If you seek your entitlement to the national minimum wage you are protected from victimisation or dismissal. Victimisation is prohibited by the legislation. In addition if you are dismissed for seeking the national minimum wage, you may bring a claim for unfair dismissal regardless of length of service or number of hours worked per week.

If you are due an increase under the National Minimum Wage Act your employer cannot reduce your working hours without a corresponding reduction in duties or the amount of work.

If in doubt contact these people to clear up any confusion:

Rights Commissioner Service
The Labour Relations Commission
Tom Johnson House
Haddington Road
Dublin 4
IRELAND
Tel: +353 (0)1 613 6700
Locall: 1890 220 227 (outside 01 area)
Fax: +353 (0)1 613 6701
Homepage: http://www.lrc.ie/docs/Rights_Commissioner_Service_-_Information_about_the_service/234.htm
Email: rightscomm@lrc.ie

National Employment Rights Authority
Information Services
Government Buildings
O'Brien Road
Carlow
IRELAND
Opening Hours: Mon. to Fri. 9.30am to 5pm
Tel: (059) 917 8990
Locall: 1890 80 80 90
Homepage: http://www.employmentrights.ie
Email: info@employmentrights.ie

Mrs OBumble

People on a work-trial are not employees, so employment rights laws like minimum wage don't apply to them.

A more interesting question would be whether the employer's liability insurance covers non-employees who happen to be "doing stuff" in the non-public area of a business. I know what I'm guessing.

TBH, this would stop if everyone who was offered a work trial just said "no". It wouldn't hurt the employers one bit, because employees can be fired with no reason at any time in their first 12 months - meaning that trials are just not necessary here.

Amhran Nua

JustMary wrote: »

People on a work-trial are not employees, so employment rights laws like minimum wage don't apply to them.

Again, I'd love to see the statutory definition of a "work-trial".

_Whimsical_

If some like the OP is aware of any company who continually offers unpaid trials for jobs that do not exist they should contact the Advertiser or another media source and tell their story. It may not be illegal but it is certainly immoral and if one or two of these businesses were named and shamed and suffered reduced custom by patrons the practice would die out pretty quickly.

FlashD

Anyone taking someone on for a work trial is a chancer, plenty of them around.

Anyone working for free is an idiot, plenty of them around too.

There's only one winner in this situation and it ain't the idiot.

What's fake about a work trial? Call it what it is, working for nothing.

geekychick

FlashD wrote: »

Anyone taking someone on for a work trial is a chancer, plenty of them around.

Anyone working for free is an idiot, plenty of them around too.

There's only one winner in this situation and it ain't the idiot.

What's fake about a work trial? Call it what it is, working for nothing.

As is volunteering.

Someone who does something in good faith is not necessarily an idiot.

Mrs OBumble

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Again, I'd love to see the statutory definition of a "work-trial".

It's probably right beside the statutory definition of "internship", "job interview", "assessment centre", and "shortlisting". (No, I haven't looked.)

FlashD

geekychick wrote: »

As is volunteering.

Someone who does something in good faith is not necessarily an idiot.

Who said anything about doing something in good faith being an idiot?

I have done volunteering and I knew exactly where I stood. I learnt some new skills while benefitting those less fortunate than myself. I didn't to it with the intention of being paid.

Read the posts, a work trial isn't volunteering or helping people less fortunate, it is benefiting someones business for free. A business person who drives home in their big flash car to their big flash house laughing all the way at their employees who work for free benefiting their business.

Everyone deserves a fair days pay for a fair days work even if it is their first or only day.

Don't be an idiot. Wise up.

Amhran Nua

JustMary wrote: »

It's probably right beside the statutory definition of "internship", "job interview", "assessment centre", and "shortlisting". (No, I haven't looked.)

The exceptions to the minimum wage are clearly laid out above, there is no mention of "work trial" in there. I don't recall ever seeing "work-trial" in any employment legislation, in fact.